iRobot Says Beta Testers Do Not Have a Right to Privacy When Photos of People on the Toilet Appear on Social Media

cageymaru

cageymaru

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Roomba testers feel misled after intimate images ended up on Facebook
https://www.technologyreview.com/20...eta-product-testers-consent-agreement-misled/

A Roomba recorded a woman on the toilet. How did screenshots end up on Facebook?
https://www.technologyreview.com/20...rtificial-intelligence-training-data-privacy/

iRobot contracted work to artificial intelligence companies that in turn outsourced the grunt work of identifying objects in beta tester's homes to countries such as Venezuela. The people tasked with identifying objects in screenshots captured by Roomba vacuum cleaners would post images of kids and adults on the toilet, people's faces, and their house layouts onto social media. iRobot CEO Colin Angle described the beta testers as "paid data collectors, internal employee data collection and data sourced from internal lab environments – none from customers." when in fact the beta testers have to purchase their own iRobot at the end of the trial. They have notified the people whose photos were uploaded to social media, but have declined to alert the other members of the beta testing group.

C3_0002_TR-vacuum-04.png.png

When Greg unboxed a new Roomba robot vacuum cleaner in December 2019, he thought he knew what he was getting into.

He would allow the preproduction test version of iRobot’s Roomba J series device to roam around his house, let it collect all sorts of data to help improve its artificial intelligence, and provide feedback to iRobot about his user experience.

But what Greg didn’t know—and does not believe he consented to—was that iRobot would share test users’ data in a sprawling, global data supply chain, where everything (and every person) captured by the devices’ front-facing cameras could be seen, and perhaps annotated, by low-paid contractors outside the United States who could screenshot and share images at their will.
 
Dear User: If you're dropping-trou, please close the frickin door. It's manners, yo! Think of the Robots!

Aside....you let that Roomba roam around and do it's thing while you're home? Do you enjoy the sounds of a slowly roaming robotic vacuum running for 20, 30, 40 minutes at a time when your lazy ass could do the same thing with a proper vacuum in about, what, 5 minutes? C'mon!
 
I kind of hope this kind of trivial privacy violation calls more attention to the more serious tech copr big brother shit that's going on, so we can finally get some regulation on the privacy front.

People freak out about shit like nudity and sitting on the toilet, and less about more serious shit like registering of political opinions, medical stuff, the Chinese collecting information that can be used to black mail people to compromise national security, etc. etc. So if a few potty pictures is what it takes to get the publics attention to shut the big data personal sharing bullshit that goes on in the modern economy, maybe that is a good thing.

No outcome other than the redefinition of personal data as being completely owned by the person it describes, and banning its use by anyone else, and the complete shutdown of all data brokers is acceptable.
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
I kind of hope this kind of trivial privacy violation calls more attention to the more serious tech copr big brother shit that's going on, so we can finally get some regulation on the privacy front.

People freak out about shit like nudity and sitting on the toilet, and less about more serious shit like registering of political opinions, medical stuff, the Chinese collecting information that can be used to black mail people to compromise national security, etc. etc. So if a few potty pictures is what it takes to get th epublics attention to shut the big data personal sharing bullshit that goes on in the modern economy, maybe that is a good thing.

No outcome other than the redefinition of personal data as being completely owned by the person it describes, and banning its use by anyone else, and the complete shutdown of all data brokers is acceptable.
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I would say my meta data and browsing history ranks much lower on the privacy violation scale than my cock and asshole would, but hey, maybe it's just me.
 
I wouldn't be pissing or shitting in front of my roombas anyway because something would happen in regards to calamity, banana peels, and a mess all over. I just know it. Why tempt fate?
 
auntjemima said:
I would say my meta data and browsing history ranks much lower on the privacy violation scale than my cock and asshole would, but hey, maybe it's just me.
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Your cock and asshole will at worst result in a little embarrassment. It's just biology. We all have reproductive organs and poo-holes of one variety or another.

Your site visit data and other information about your person can be misused in more ways than you can shake a stick at.

I'd much rather have my dick out there on every site on the internet than any descriptive information about myself as a person mined by people whom I cannot control how they use it.

Though for sure, I'd prefer neither.
 
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staknhalo said:
That's why you gotta throw the algos off sometimes and just google some wild and crazy shit
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Would be interesting to write some sort of macro that you can run in the background that sits on 24/7 and googles random word combinations from the dictionary, and follows random links.

It wouldn't seem too difficult to poison the data.

At least not until the silent black helicopters show up because your macro accidentally got itself into kiddie porn :p
 
HeadRusch said:
Aside....you let that Roomba roam around and do it's thing while you're home? Do you enjoy the sounds of a slowly roaming robotic vacuum running for 20, 30, 40 minutes at a time when your lazy ass could do the same thing with a proper vacuum in about, what, 5 minutes? C'mon!
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I heard they got better? Personally, I stopped using the Roomba because it was too sad to watch it try to get the same spot and miss so many times, and it would never find its way back to the base. I knew if I didn't let it retire, I'd be first against the wall for cruelty to robots when they take over. But then, I'm probably one of twenty people who have said thank you to a voice assistant.
 
I thank Alexa out of habit.........I'd also like to thank all of you who have refrained from the *palpable* urge to update this thread with roomba-style action shots of your bait and tackle. Sincerely, The Internet.

But seriously does anyone use one of these things, I've been seeing them for what seems like 2 decades now, and I always wonder who's using them....do they use like fancy methods to navigate furniture, identify spots they have missed using sonar/radar or whatever, or are they still basically a mash-up of those Bump-N-Go toys we had in the 70's paired up with the deep-logic learning of one of these programmable bad boys...I'm assuming they're really just for like hardwood floors or super short rugs and dust bunnies and such...??
7508a93697fe02ed8fd93bbb8fd7d8ef.jpg
 
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HeadRusch said:
do they use like fancy methods to navigate furniture, identify spots they have missed using sonar/radar or whatever, or are they still basically a mash-up of those Bump-N-Go toys we had in the 70's paired up with the deep-logic learning of one of these programmable bad boys...I'm assuming they're really just for like hardwood floors or super short rugs and dust bunnies and such...??
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They essentially map a floorplan of your house and obstacles at this point. All of which is reported back to hq..... I have no idea what their privacy policy is, I wouldn't be shocked if they are selling that data to someone. Even if they aren't selling it, it's probably not stored securely enough to keep out any threat actor that wants it.
 
HeadRusch said:
I thank Alexa out of habit.........I'd also like to thank all of you who have refrained from the *palpable* urge to update this thread with roomba-style action shots of your bait and tackle. Sincerely, The Internet.

But seriously does anyone use one of these things, I've been seeing them for what seems like 2 decades now, and I always wonder who's using them....do they use like fancy methods to navigate furniture, identify spots they have missed using sonar/radar or whatever, or are they still basically a mash-up of those Bump-N-Go toys we had in the 70's paired up with the deep-logic learning of one of these programmable bad boys...I'm assuming they're really just for like hardwood floors or super short rugs and dust bunnies and such...??
View attachment 541497
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I have the i7+ and m6

The i7 uses the bump and go to map a place out and clean, but then once mapped out uses a camera and the retained map to navigate around/to/in between areas directly without bumping - and then will use the camera and 'slight bumping' from there on out to clean and make sure the furniture/boundaries it mapped are still in the same area/somewhere else

The m6 is the same but is fucking retarded. Just spins and wastes battery sometimes or locks itself in rooms

I put foam bumpers on mine because they sound like bulls in a china shop, especially with ceramic tile moulding

Also they bump and go in straight lines now think like old cell phone snake game instead of completely ping pong pattern, more efficient

They have other brands/models that have lidar for mapping and navigating or even full on image based viewing/AI processing for item learning & detection/obstacle avoidance
 
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Think I could take a Roomba's brains, attach them to a barbie Hotwheel, then put my Shopvac in the Hotwheel and have it keep the garage clean?
 
staknhalo said:
The m6 is the same but is fucking retarded.
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I've got the j7+ and it still has a few issues. I have a desk chair whose legs are two steel pipes, one on each side, going down for the front leg, back along the floor,and then back up in the back, and the robot will cheerfully run over the pipe and get high-centered and then run its own battery down trying to free itself. I have to put the chair under one side of the desk, and then put a small box under it so the robot can't get under the chair and won't try to go over the side leg, before I let the robot in the room.

Also, it does seem to do the "light bumps to corner an object" thing a lot.
 
Lakados said:
Think I could take a Roomba's brains, attach them to a barbie Hotwheel, then put my Shopvac in the Hotwheel and have it keep the garage clean?
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That would be wilidly entertaining to watch. Give it a try!
 
If they were paid beta testers, as long as they knew it would be taking pictures and sending them for evaluation, I don't see the problem. It's on the user if the user knows they take pictures.
The person on the toilet should have shut the door.

If they were not told that it takes images and/or that they would be uploaded, that's a different can of worms. But I suspect the picture analysis was part of the agreement.
 
GoodBoy said:
If they were paid beta testers, as long as they knew it would be taking pictures and sending them for evaluation, I don't see the problem. It's on the user if the user knows they take pictures.
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This doesn't appear to be anything new from last year's story. Some additional context: the most egregious issue is the third-party contractor sharing private pictures. All the testers know they're having pictures taken because they have custom roombas with external cameras mounted on top, and there are stickers saying so. The woman whose picture was taken on the pot knew it was there and knew it was taking pictures, but she had an expectation that irobot and their contractos wouldn't put her damn picture on the web. This is no different than taking your phone into a repair shop and having the tech put your noods on a porn site.
 
My question is why TF does Roomba need to have an up facing camera when what it does is all at the floor level?
 
HeadRusch said:
I thank Alexa out of habit.........I'd also like to thank all of you who have refrained from the *palpable* urge to update this thread with roomba-style action shots of your bait and tackle. Sincerely, The Internet.

But seriously does anyone use one of these things, I've been seeing them for what seems like 2 decades now, and I always wonder who's using them....do they use like fancy methods to navigate furniture, identify spots they have missed using sonar/radar or whatever, or are they still basically a mash-up of those Bump-N-Go toys we had in the 70's paired up with the deep-logic learning of one of these programmable bad boys...I'm assuming they're really just for like hardwood floors or super short rugs and dust bunnies and such...??
View attachment 541497
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I don't currently use one, but I did get one from my parents when I was a kid, maybe 4 decades ago so memory is a bit hazy on exactly how it worked, but I think you're over estimating it's capabilities it basically allowed for like 10 lines of code or something like that that you punched in with a keypad. Things like go forward XXX, turn right XX, fire laser, etc. it did have loops though so you could go forward 10 ; turn right 2 ; repeat and essentially have it driving in a circle. But I don't believe it had an external sensors or the like if you ran into the couch it would keep trying to complete it's code regardless of what was in the way.
 
These things are a privacy nightmare even when you're not in the beta program, the eula basically says they can collect any info they want and use it anyway they want. I doubt they'd do very well for me anyway with everything I have to move when I vacuum though I did recently pick up one of those stick vacuums that gets into those spots much better than an old school upright.
HeadRusch said:
I thank Alexa out of habit.........I'd also like to thank all of you who have refrained from the *palpable* urge to update this thread with roomba-style action shots of your bait and tackle. Sincerely, The Internet.

But seriously does anyone use one of these things, I've been seeing them for what seems like 2 decades now, and I always wonder who's using them....do they use like fancy methods to navigate furniture, identify spots they have missed using sonar/radar or whatever, or are they still basically a mash-up of those Bump-N-Go toys we had in the 70's paired up with the deep-logic learning of one of these programmable bad boys...I'm assuming they're really just for like hardwood floors or super short rugs and dust bunnies and such...??
View attachment 541497
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That wasn't a bump and go toy, you gave it verbose instructions that it would follow regardless of obstacles, most of the time if you ran into something with it it would just spin the tires. I never had or have even seen the trailer though, that's interesting but would likely jacknife as soon as you tried to back it up.
 
1_rick said:
This doesn't appear to be anything new from last year's story. Some additional context: the most egregious issue is the third-party contractor sharing private pictures. All the testers know they're having pictures taken because they have custom roombas with external cameras mounted on top, and there are stickers saying so. The woman whose picture was taken on the pot knew it was there and knew it was taking pictures, but she had an expectation that irobot and their contractos wouldn't put her damn picture on the web. This is no different than taking your phone into a repair shop and having the tech put your noods on a porn site.
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Yeah, iRoomba should get rid of that contractor, or just do the work themselves. Only takes one asshole... If they keep using that contractor, or keep using it without addressing this with them, then it falls on iRoomba. I don't know any specifics of that. If it was originally downplayed that is likely the PR dept.doing damage control. Be very bad mgmt of a business if they did not immediately contact the subcontractor and do something. If the pictures were already censored before the inital posting to facebook (faces hidden, junk hidden), then it becomes less worrisome. But I doubt that is what happened... so far all of the new stories I can find say that her face was blocked in the pic of her on the toilet, but there were some other pictures of her in other rooms where her face was visible (but grainy).
 
sfsuphysics said:
My question is why TF does Roomba need to have an up facing camera when what it does is all at the floor level?
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It doesn't. These were development models specifically for training the room-mapping AI or whatever, and there were stickers on the machine saying "you may have pictures of you taken". I don't think this was mentioned in the article linked in the OP, but it was in the original article from last month--which you can get to from the curren one.
 
GoodBoy said:
If the pictures were already censored before the inital posting to facebook
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"The most intimate image we saw was the series of video stills featuring the young woman on the toilet, her face blocked in the lead image but unobscured in the grainy scroll of shots below. In another image, a boy who appears to be eight or nine years old, and whose face is clearly visible, is sprawled on his stomach across a hallway floor. A triangular flop of hair spills across his forehead as he stares, with apparent amusement, at the object recording him from just below eye level."
 
1_rick said:
It doesn't. These were development models specifically for training the room-mapping AI or whatever, and there were stickers on the machine saying "you may have pictures of you taken". I don't think this was mentioned in the article linked in the OP, but it was in the original article from last month--which you can get to from the curren one.
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Nah some do (like mine is one of a few - any of the i3 i7 i8 and s9 models do IIRC) but it's a shit camera just for navigation as I mentioned

81moQ3jdfAL.jpg
 
staknhalo said:
Nah some do (like mine is one of a few - any of the i3 i7 i8 and s9 models do IIRC) but it's a shit camera just for navigation as I mentioned
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Yeah, I have a j7+ and the camera's embedded in the front. But the original MIT Review article I've mentioned above specifically mentioned these were custom models with extra equipment. Not sure if that's in the newer article.

I've seen plenty of pictures from the camera from my j7, whenever it finds something it doesn't know is an obstacle or not, and I'm not sure it is capable, due to angle and quality, of capturing a picture of a person such that you could tell who it is. If anyone cares, I can put some pics in here next time I run it. Usually they're very dark, fisheyed, grainy as hell, and, of course, looking like they were taken from a horizontally-facing camera an inch off the ground.
 
sfsuphysics said:
I don't currently use one, but I did get one from my parents when I was a kid, maybe 4 decades ago so memory is a bit hazy on exactly how it worked, but I think you're over estimating it's capabilities it basically allowed for like 10 lines of code or something like that that you punched in with a keypad. Things like go forward XXX, turn right XX, fire laser, etc. it did have loops though so you could go forward 10 ; turn right 2 ; repeat and essentially have it driving in a circle. But I don't believe it had an external sensors or the like if you ran into the couch it would keep trying to complete it's code regardless of what was in the way.
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Right, was used for comedic effect....I wasn't sure how Roomba's had improved over the years in terms of their navigation capabilities.

PS: Thanks for the replies above, from people who've actually used these things. You see the refurbs all the time and you go "You know...that's pretty cheap..." and then immediately go..."...nahhh, next time".

PPSS: They re-released Big Trak about 12 years ago in a small desktop format with all the same capabilities, it was called Big Trak Jr.....I bought one, never used it, guess they stopped making it (not really the kind of thing that captures the imagination of kids in the 2010's was more of a nostalgia piece for us old types who had one, or wanted one, in the 70's).....and yeah its pretty basic in what it can do, just like the one from the 70's.
 
This is why I always click "No" on the "collect my data for experience improvement" option on basically anything that is computer-related. I mean, even clicking no, I am sure that my data is being collated and shared without my permission and that these companies are protecting themselves with some obscure EULA clause and a bunch of bought and paid for politicans. that said, if you're actually deliberately consenting to give up an inch of your privacy to these same companies I have no doubt that they are going to take a full country mile and then some.

It's the same with those smart speakers, I have heard that they actually can call the cops if it hears what it perceives as threatening language in the home it's setup in. I mean, I am sure that smartphones can and do listen to your conversations too, but if you're actually setting up something in your home like a smart speaker that is explicitly meant to listen to you, analyze with speech recognition and take action then you're consenting to a degree of privacy invasion as a baseline and big tech can probably get away with a lot more of the type of stuff that they don't tell you about as a result of that consent.
 
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