Intel introduces new high-performance graphics brand: Arc

[Armenius]

After some leaks earlier in the day Intel has officially announced that the high-performance segment for their line of discreet GPUs based on DG2 is called Arc. Products are expected to launch Q1 2022.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...ducing-discrete-graphics-brand-intel-arc.html

Intel today revealed the brand for its upcoming consumer high-performance graphics products: Intel® Arc™. The Arc brand will cover hardware, software and services, and will span multiple hardware generations, with the first generation, based on the Xe HPG microarchitecture, code-named Alchemist (formerly known as DG2). Intel also revealed the code names of future generations under the Arc brand: Battlemage, Celestial and Druid.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Stupid names aside, having more players in the GPU market is a universal positive.

Lets hope they drive each other to improve and bring down market pricing.

 

[chameleoneel]

Definitely feels a little strange to name their graphics phonetically the same as their product information site https://ark.intel.com/

 

[Lakados]

Looks encouraging!

 

[Lakados]

Definitely feels a little strange to name their graphics phonetically the same as their product information site https://ark.intel.com/

Did they just name them all after Pathfinder classes??

 

[Armenius]

VCZ has little tidbits, including Battlemage and others using a GPU called "DG3" and speculation that DG2 is on TSMC 6nm. I take it "Alchemist" will be the top-tier card going by history of the release cadence from AMD.

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-d...map-and-development-of-ai-super-sampling-tech

 

[chrcoluk]

very odd name.

 

[sc5mu93]

In Intel's launch video in the original post, woman in video says 3 BILLION gamers worldwide.
1). Where did they come up with that number, and
2). That's approaching half the population of the planet.

I'm not sure that is an accurate representation of the market.

 

[TheGardenTool]

A certain somebody here on the forums didn’t stay with them long enough to tell them this isn’t the way to recapture enthusiast market.

In Intel's launch video in the original post, woman in video says 3 BILLION gamers worldwide.
1). Where did they come up with that number, and
2). That's approaching half the population of the planet.

I'm not sure that is an accurate representation of the market.

Likely including anybody who plays or has played even mobile games in that figure.

 

[TangledThornz]

So it can run CRYSIS, very interesting...

 

[ManofGod]

Stupid names aside, having more players in the GPU market is a universal positive.

Lets hope they drive each other to improve and bring down market pricing.

I think what you are saying is fine but, let's get real, if Intel end up competing on the high end, they will never drive prices down. In fact, the only reason Intel has lower priced CPU's that do well is because of AMD's competition and even then, Intel was dragged kicking and screaming into that need to lower prices.

 

[Armenius]

In Intel's launch video in the original post, woman in video says 3 BILLION gamers worldwide.
1). Where did they come up with that number, and
2). That's approaching half the population of the planet.

I'm not sure that is an accurate representation of the market.

Looks like they may have gotten the number from this DFC Intelligence report.

https://www.dfcint.com/product/video-game-consumer-segmentation-2/

Sounds like they break down the numbers in the data by market segment, but only looking at the PC market probably wouldn't sound as impressive to investors even though the PC market continues to grow. I thought growth potential was more lucrative than the size of the current market, especially to new products.

 

[legcramp]

I think what you are saying is fine but, let's get real, if Intel end up competing on the high end, they will never drive prices down. In fact, the only reason Intel has lower priced CPU's that do well is because of AMD's competition and even then, Intel was dragged kicking and screaming into that need to lower prices.

Nah Intel just didn't lower prices, AMD upped prices. But AMD would never do that right?

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I think what you are saying is fine but, let's get real, if Intel end up competing on the high end, they will never drive prices down. In fact, the only reason Intel has lower priced CPU's that do well is because of AMD's competition and even then, Intel was dragged kicking and screaming into that need to lower prices.

Well, that's exactly it. More players competing means those players need to compete with eachother, and one of the knobs they have to turn as part of that competition is price.

Intel can't expect to operate the same way they did when they had overwhelming market dominance in the CPU space in a different market where they are one of three, and don't have any kind of clear dominance.

 

[Armenius]

Well, that's exactly it. More players competing means those players need to compete with eachother, and one of the knobs they have to turn as part of that competition is price.

Intel can't expect to operate the same way they did when they had overwhelming market dominance in the CPU space in a different market where they are one of three, and don't have any kind of clear dominance.

Still, they're not going to undercut what the market will bear by a large amount. If NVIDIA has a $1,000 GPU then Intel would sell their competing product for $850. How the consumer base gets interrupted will ultimately determine how far prices can drop based on that interruption, but given NVIDIA's dominance I don't see the interruption mattering much. I'd love to be proven wrong in the near future. It would ultimately come down to if Intel and TSMC can outpace the demand and get products into the hands of actual gamers.

 

[toast0]

Stupid names aside, having more players in the GPU market is a universal positive.

Lets hope they drive each other to improve and bring down market pricing.

I agree, but any thread about problems is going to be inevitably an Arc fault.

 

[michalrz]

This is very good even if their offering will suck for gaming.
It'll be nice to be able to buy a dirt-cheap card for the basics, or a backup card, without waiting for availability or paying silly prices.
I paid way too much for a GT730 just to be able to plug a monitor into it and play project zomboid every now and then.

 

[sc5mu93]

Looks like they may have gotten the number from this DFC Intelligence report.

https://www.dfcint.com/product/video-game-consumer-segmentation-2/

Sounds like they break down the numbers in the data by market segment, but only looking at the PC market probably wouldn't sound as impressive to investors even though the PC market continues to grow. I thought growth potential was more lucrative than the size of the current market, especially to new products.

View attachment 385323

playing Snake on my nokia makes me a "gamer" according to intel. Sweet. My grandparents are gamers now too!

 

[Lakados]

In Intel's launch video in the original post, woman in video says 3 BILLION gamers worldwide.
1). Where did they come up with that number, and
2). That's approaching half the population of the planet.

I'm not sure that is an accurate representation of the market.

It is, pretty close but that of course included, console, mobile, and PC gamers and there is undoubtedly some double entries in there.

ex. You use an outlook.com email for your Xbox, but use gmail for steam, and a secret Apple.com for your mobile. Unless you’ve got them all linked somewhere public that one user counts as 3 for their studies.

 

[NickM]

Still, they're not going to undercut what the market will bear by a large amount. If NVIDIA has a $1,000 GPU then Intel would sell their competing product for $850. More like $999. This is Intel, after all. How the consumer base gets interrupted will ultimately determine how far prices can drop based on that interruption, but given NVIDIA's dominance I don't see the interruption mattering much. I'd love to be proven wrong in the near future. It would ultimately come down to if Intel and TSMC can outpace the demand and get products into the hands of actual gamers.

Adjusted for reality.

 

[ManofGod]

Nah Intel just didn't lower prices, AMD upped prices. But AMD would never do that right?

Ummm, what? When was the last time they charged $1000 to $1500 plus a $400 motherboard for 8 an entry level 8 core? Raising prices $50 is hardly upping prices but, ok, sure, I guess.

 

[That_Sound_Guy]

Googling for ARC (Audio return Channel) just became more hellacious.

 

[Armenius]

Googling for ARC (Audio return Channel) just became more hellacious.

Search for intel arc:

 

[ElementDave]

More options are always good, but I've completely lost trust in Intel to provide continued driver support beyond a few years.

 

[Darunion]

More options are always good, but I've completely lost trust in Intel to provide continued driver support beyond a few years.

They only want you to use a product for a few years, and then upgrade!

 

[Flogger23m]

Still, they're not going to undercut what the market will bear by a large amount. If NVIDIA has a $1,000 GPU then Intel would sell their competing product for $850. How the consumer base gets interrupted will ultimately determine how far prices can drop based on that interruption, but given NVIDIA's dominance I don't see the interruption mattering much. I'd love to be proven wrong in the near future. It would ultimately come down to if Intel and TSMC can outpace the demand and get products into the hands of actual gamers.

Intel might start with being $50 cheaper. Nvidia might take issue with that, and might lower prices by $50 to prevent people from even considering Intel and ceding market share. Then AMD decides to match that price, and offers more VRAM or something. It won't happen overnight but it certainly will help keep prices in check longer term.

I do wonder how Intel's software suite will be. That is the best thing Nvidia has going for them. AMD has likely caught up in most aspects these days, but Intel needs to match them on parity and features. It isn't just about the hardware, but stable drivers and many options software side.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Still, they're not going to undercut what the market will bear by a large amount. If NVIDIA has a $1,000 GPU then Intel would sell their competing product for $850. How the consumer base gets interrupted will ultimately determine how far prices can drop based on that interruption, but given NVIDIA's dominance I don't see the interruption mattering much. I'd love to be proven wrong in the near future. It would ultimately come down to if Intel and TSMC can outpace the demand and get products into the hands of actual gamers.

Well, yeah, it's going to be a process. Intel might decide to undercut by a little, then AMD or Nvidia might decide they'd like to be closer to that price to not lose too much sales wise to Intel, then Intel or Nvidia may respond. It will take a few cycles, but I think prices will mellow from this.

Of course, it depends on the resource constriction on the fab side to be solved. Until that happens it doesn't matter how many competitors join the fray if they are competing fro the same fab capacity.

 

[cybereality]

Actually, I think it would be a mistake for Intel to lower prices right out the gate. AMD is fighting hard to overcome the "budget brand" stigma, even though they generally have good and competitive products these days (definitely on the CPU side for sure).

In fact, Intel should match Nvidia or maybe even make it a little bit more on top. Position it as the high-end, not budget, option. They could always lower prices later if it doesn't work, or if the hardware is not that great.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Actually, I think it would be a mistake for Intel to lower prices right out the gate. AMD is fighting hard to overcome the "budget brand" stigma, even though they generally have good and competitive products these days (definitely on the CPU side for sure).

All AMD needs is one generation with a halo card that can beat a Titan/3090 level card and they will have overcome that "budget" moniker, just like they have in CPU's.

Most people may not buy the top end SKU's, but they still look to them as a show of what a company is capable of. It's just like how the existence of the BMW M3 sells a ton of low end 3 series.

 

[ChadD]

I'm actually looking more forward to what they do APU wise with this after. Intels big little stuff... sandwiched with a real APU could be much more interesting. I think over the next 2-4 years things like the Deck are going to be what drive gaming.
It might sound crazy... but I am more looking forward to a Intel Nuc type device with Say 4 big cores 2 little and a decent Arc (I guess) GPU running some fast system ram and Steam OS. To would be a super interesting product to me... more then a third player in a GPU space where everyone is using TMSC anyway so stock issues and price gouging to go with don't change anyway.

 

[Lakados]

Intel might start with being $50 cheaper. Nvidia might take issue with that, and might lower prices by $50 to prevent people from even considering Intel and ceding market share. Then AMD decides to match that price, and offers more VRAM or something. It won't happen overnight but it certainly will help keep prices in check longer term.

I do wonder how Intel's software suite will be. That is the best thing Nvidia has going for them. AMD has likely caught up in most aspects these days, but Intel needs to match them on parity and features. It isn't just about the hardware, but stable drivers and many options software side.

Intel's drivers are pretty solid, I kinda hope they lay off any creature features and just put out stable kick-ass drivers, preferably for Linux too. But yeah 100% agree, NVidia's software suite is top-notch especially if you are a streamer or a developer. I am not sure AMD is that close in most regards to the software side but they are trying so there is that. Now that AMD is making money and most of their bigger loans have been paid down so they aren't getting rammed by interest payments they can put some focus into the creature comforts that can better keep them in the running. Because if two cards are identically priced, with the same performance, then it will be the features that win them over and NVidia has a lead there.

 

[Lakados]

I'm actually looking more forward to what they do APU wise with this after. Intels big little stuff... sandwiched with a real APU could be much more interesting. I think over the next 2-4 years things like the Deck are going to be what drive gaming.
It might sound crazy... but I am more looking forward to a Intel Nuc type device with Say 4 big cores 2 little and a decent Arc (I guess) GPU running some fast system ram and Steam OS. To would be a super interesting product to me... more then a third player in a GPU space where everyone is using TMSC anyway so stock issues and price gouging to go with don't change anyway.

Especially if foundry time for GPUs is scarce, Intel's mobile chips are doing half decent on graphics but it's not like there is a lot of competition there currently, I look forward to seeing how they can translate that to the desktop market.

What I really want to know is if Intel has anything in the works to try going after Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo for future console deals, IF (huge if) Intel can get their heads on straight and catch back up to TSMC AND (big conditional there) their graphics department also keeps pace, it would allow them to put out a decent package for the consoles. It would be really interesting to see what they could do with their Optane DC memory modules in a console.

 

[hititnquitit]

Ill settle for them simply competing.
Pricing projection debates are fun but damn, they have to produce something competitive first.
Fingers and toes crossed.

 

[Lakados]

Ill settle for them simply competing.
Pricing projection debates are fun but damn, they have to produce something competitive first.
Fingers and toes crossed.

And hoping they can get their own processes figured out and don't have to use TSMC for too long. Because if TSMC is the current bottleneck, having NVidia, AMD, and now Intel's GPU's there doesn't really do anything to increase supply.

 

[IceCaveMan]

LOL..."Battlemage, Celestial and Druid"

They might as well go all the way for the gamer market...with a series of Darth cards. Darth Vader, Darth Sidious, etc.

 

[IceCaveMan]

doesn't really do anything to increase supply.

True, if they want to use top 7nm or 5nm parts. But Intel could impose reasonable prices on their channel partners, and win market share (and good will) in doing so. (If they so wished)

 

[Lakados]

True, if they want to use top 7nm or 5nm parts. But Intel could impose reasonable prices on their channel partners, and win market share (and good will) in doing so. (If they so wished)

Ponte Vecchio was built using Intel's 7nm and TSMC's 5nm, and while the individual chips have different SKU's they supposedly perform nearly identical, and the fact that they could make it work on either process with minor tweaks is a good sign. I would have to think that their first consumer launch would be about the same, but I have heard very little on any of Intel's processes going beyond their 7nm other than that they plan to start risk production on their 5nm fabs in 2022, no clue if that is still on track though.

 

[FrgMstr]

Ponte Vecchio was built using Intel's 7nm and TSMC's 5nm, and while the individual chips have different SKU's they supposedly perform nearly identical, and the fact that they could make it work on either process with minor tweaks is a good sign. I would have to think that their first consumer launch would be about the same, but I have heard very little on any of Intel's processes going beyond their 7nm other than that they plan to start risk production on their 5nm fabs in 2022, no clue if that is still on track though.

Citation for any of that?

Edited for fat finger phone correction keyboard.

 

[Krenum]

...That you wont be able to buy at a decent price*

Still, cool though. It would be funny to see Intel take it to Nvidia and AMD. There would be laughs.

 

[Lakados]

Citation for AMD of that?

https://wccftech.com/exclusive-intel-ponte-vecchio-gpu-not-on-tsmc-6nm/
where I first heard this:
https://hardforum.com/threads/intel...ncurrently-on-intel-7nm-and-tsmc-5nm.1999448/

“Intel's Ponte Vecchio GPU will be made concurrently on Intel 7nm and TSMC 5nm”

I’m trying to find the article put out by Intel and TSMC announcing this when the DoE dropped their lawsuit against Intel when they got back on schedule.

here’s the 5nm wiki article stating the initial Intel 5nm info.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_nm_process

here’s the latest Intel report from Anandtech.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1682...nm-3nm-20a-18a-packaging-foundry-emib-foveros

It shows the new name as 20A, with consumer products in Q3 2024.