I feel bad for id

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Wondernerd

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Critofur said:
Passing more laws to try to stop piracy is a TERRIBLE idea.

Since people have always murdered each other, still murder each other and will keep murdering each until there is nobody left to murder, Laws forbiding the killing of another person should be abolished. Besides, some people just need killing.
 

Critofur

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Wondernerd said:
So theft isn't wrong if the guy has a lot of money?

Who's stealing what? I'm so sick of ignorant people mistaking copyright infringment for theft. Even the US Supreme Court says infringment is infringment, not theft. Please. :confused:

And, Microsoft is not a guy, it is a corporation. In general corporations are amoral or immoral, so while stealing is wrong, if it's going to be done, I'd rather it done to corporations than to individuals.
 

Wondernerd

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So getting a product for free is no longer stealing? You didn't steal 50 dollars from Activision by not buying their product but still enjoying it?

Sorry.

So infringement is OK if you think it is and the group you are stealing it from has more money then you? Immoral companies like Microsoft that donate billions to charities?
 
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Sorry, dumb kids, but your STEALING.

When you choose to take a product that isn't yours, it doesn't matter if you took the digital version, or you took a normal version from a store, you STOLE a product that you didn't buy. It's as simple as that.
 

ruhk

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Critofur said:
Who's stealing what? I'm so sick of ignorant people mistaking copyright infringment for theft. Even the US Supreme Court says infringment is infringment, not theft. Please. :confused:

And, Microsoft is not a guy, it is a corporation. In general corporations are amoral or immoral, so while stealing is wrong, if it's going to be done, I'd rather it done to corporations than to individuals.

No, its stealing. Go take Law 101 and you will learn the difference between copyright infringement and theft. God the general ignorance on this forum amazes me.

If I wanted to make a game called Doom3, now that would be copyright infringement.
 
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ruhk said:
No, its stealing. Go take Law 101 and you will learn the difference between copyright infringement and theft. God the general ignorance on this forum amazes me.

If I wanted to make a game called Doom3, now that would be copyright infringement.

Speaking of ignorance, if you made a game called Doom3, that would be trademark infringement, not copyright infringement :rolleyes:

EDIT: And it's copyright infringement, not stealing. Maybe you should look up what you rant about before trying to pretend you understand it: http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#501 :rolleyes:
 
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Newsboys2004 said:
Sorry, dumb kids, but your STEALING.

When you choose to take a product that isn't yours, it doesn't matter if you took the digital version, or you took a normal version from a store, you STOLE a product that you didn't buy. It's as simple as that.

So, if a painter paints a copy of the Mona Lisa, that makes the painter a thief? :rolleyes: You also need to learn the difference between stealing and copyright infringement, as well as the difference between "your" and "you're".
 
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Idiot. There's a HUGE difference between making a copy of something, like an artist, and taking something, which is what you're doing...

You can say you're making a copy, but what you're doing is taking it. You're stealing, plain and simple.
 
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BTW...

www.dictionary.com

Main Entry: 1copy·right
Pronunciation: 'kä-pE-"rIt
Function: noun
: a person's exclusive right to reproduce, publish, or sell his or her original work of authorship (as a literary, musical, dramatic, artistic, or architectural work

in·fringe·ment ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-frnjmnt)
n.
A violation, as of a law, regulation, or agreement; a breach.

Yes, it really sounds like what you piraters are doing is violating a person's ability to sell their software :rolleyes:

Oh wait, wasn't one of your dumb arguments that what you doesn't affect sales?

I guess it sort of sucks when you get caught in your own web of lies... Any answer you give now will only make you look foolish.

If you weren't so dumb you'd realize that 'Copyright infringement' is simply the legal term they use for the stealing you do.
 

WickedAngel

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Were there ever studies on the demographic that downloads Warez?

Studies were done on those who download MP3's. The results displayed that the vast majority of the people downloading music wouldn't have bought it in stores anyways, so sales weren't really affected either way.

This is irrelevant though. If you download something, you're getting something you didn't pay for. I'm not going to say that I've never downloaded music, but I'm not going to try to defend it and pretend I'm some sort of rebel against the "corporate pigs" either...
 
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Newsboys2004 said:
BTW...

www.dictionary.com

Main Entry: 1copy·right
Pronunciation: 'kä-pE-"rIt
Function: noun
: a person's exclusive right to reproduce, publish, or sell his or her original work of authorship (as a literary, musical, dramatic, artistic, or architectural work

in·fringe·ment ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-frnjmnt)
n.
A violation, as of a law, regulation, or agreement; a breach.

Yes, it really sounds like what you piraters are doing is violating a person's ability to sell their software :rolleyes:

Oh wait, wasn't one of your dumb arguments that what you doesn't affect sales?

I guess it sort of sucks when you get caught in your own web of lies... Any answer you give now will only make you look foolish.

If you weren't so dumb you'd realize that 'Copyright infringement' is simply the legal term they use for the stealing you do.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=reproduce
re·pro·duce ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rpr-ds, -dys)
v. re·pro·duced, re·pro·duc·ing, re·pro·duc·es
v. tr.
To produce a counterpart, image, or copy of.
...

What do you know, "reproduce" means "to produce a copy"... :rolleyes:
 
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Newsboys2004 said:
Idiot. There's a HUGE difference between making a copy of something, like an artist, and taking something, which is what you're doing...

You can say you're making a copy, but what you're doing is taking it. You're stealing, plain and simple.

Way to make an ASSumption :rolleyes: How about I accuse you of being a child molester?
 
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Newsboys2004 said:
...

Oh wait, wasn't one of your dumb arguments that what you doesn't affect sales?

...

Nope.

Newsboys2004 said:
...
I guess it sort of sucks when you get caught in your own web of lies...
...

What lies?

Newsboys2004 said:
...
Any answer you give now will only make you look foolish.
...

Well, I can't make you look foolish, as you've already done that yourself. :rolleyes:
 

Critofur

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ruhk said:
No, its stealing. Go take Law 101 and you will learn the difference between copyright infringement and theft. God the general ignorance on this forum amazes me.

And yes folks, we have a winner! Category: prime example of such ignorance, see above.
:rolleyes:

I read the Supreme Court case about this issue, you are completely wrong. _You_ are ithe ignorant one, on this issue.

Hmm, must just be a troll, or somebody trying to be funny, sorry if I missed your sarcasm.
 

Critofur

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Newsboys2004 said:
Idiot. There's a HUGE difference between making a copy of something, like an artist, and taking something, which is what you're doing...

You can say you're making a copy, but what you're doing is taking it. You're stealing, plain and simple.

Now you're starting to sound like a Republican ~ name calling and making blantantly wrong statements as if they were facts...

If I steal something from somebody then, guess what, THEY NO LONGER HAVE IT. Duh? You can call it wrong if you want, just don't call it stealing, 'cause it's not.
 

{EB}NuTSymPToM{EB}

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heres the deal...i buy wat i can afford to buy...i have a large collection of cds, movies, videogames, and so forth all store bought for full price

if im not planning on buying doom 3, and my friend just beat it and says "here ya go, install it, beat it, and give it back" im not going to say no

i dont feel bad that im playing the game without paying for it, because i wouldnt've paid for it in the first place , i just never would have played it

perhaps ill buy a copy when some good mods show up and the price drops...until then i dont feel bad and im not a pirate and have never used warez, but i have used copyrighted items for free
 
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Oh wow, a couple morons gave me a definition of 'reproduce' and now they think they own me! While picking and choosing what parts of what I said to answer back (The only parts they can) I might add...

We may as well be on the school yard, and when one of us says something, you dumb kids could say 'Oh yeah! You're a weener head!'

Grow up kids.

The reproduce part was PART of what I said, if you actually read what I wrote. And yes, what I said was the excuse that ALOT of piraters make.

Thing is, you don't want to admit you steal for one simple reason: You want to anything to make yourself feel that what your doing is right. If it's to make yourself feel like Robin Hood, if it's to twist what the supreme court says, ANYTHING.

Except it's not right. And one day, you may hafta pay for your crimes. And when you're sitting in jail, please tell us that what you're doing wasn't stealing. Thanks.

BTW, I'm a democrat.
 

Critofur

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Newsboys2004 said:
Thing is, you don't want to admit you steal for one simple reason: You want to anything to make yourself feel that what your doing is right. If it's to make yourself feel like Robin Hood, if it's to twist what the supreme court says, ANYTHING.

Whether I steal or not, is not related to downloading/copying/etc. Correcting your mistaken word use is not about whether it's (morally) right or wrong, calling it stealing is still incorrect, regardless of how terrible it is.
I'm not twisting what the Supreme Court said in the least, it was their intention to make clear, that, calling infringment theft, is, clearly, and simply, incorrect. By definition AND in terms of legal prosecution. About the schoolyard comment: I'm not the one calling people names, I simply pointed out the irony of the person calling others ignorant.

Newsboys2004 said:
Except it's not right. And one day, you may hafta pay for your crimes. And when you're sitting in jail, please tell us that what you're doing wasn't stealing. Thanks.
If a prosecutor trys to prosecute a software pirate under theft statues the judge will laugh while his case get's thrown out, and probably think he's a real idiot.

I bought Doom 3, and I also bought Windows XP dispite my moral opposition to supporting Micro$oft. If I had also downloaded Doom 3, it is patently rediculous to think that I might go to jail for having done so. That is not the intent of the legislation in place. If I was to mass duplicate and sell pirate copies, that would be an appropriate example of a jailable offense, and the intentions of the laws.
 

Raedon

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Id will make more off selling the engine then the game

Its well known that the only way to make money in the video game market is consoles and selling to women and "older" gamers
 
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Newsboys2004 said:
Oh wow, a couple morons gave me a definition of 'reproduce' and now they think they own me! While picking and choosing what parts of what I said to answer back (The only parts they can) I might add...

We may as well be on the school yard, and when one of us says something, you dumb kids could say 'Oh yeah! You're a weener head!'

Grow up kids.

The reproduce part was PART of what I said, if you actually read what I wrote. And yes, what I said was the excuse that ALOT of piraters make.

Thing is, you don't want to admit you steal for one simple reason: You want to anything to make yourself feel that what your doing is right. If it's to make yourself feel like Robin Hood, if it's to twist what the supreme court says, ANYTHING.

Except it's not right. And one day, you may hafta pay for your crimes. And when you're sitting in jail, please tell us that what you're doing wasn't stealing. Thanks.

BTW, I'm a democrat.

:rolleyes: Good job calling names, again using "your" instead of "you're", making baseless accusations, and making up words (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pirater).

I read what you wrote. You cherry-picked part of the definition of copyright and ignored a highly relevant part of it. Note that "copy" is part of the word "copyright". Is that not a big enough clue for you? :rolleyes:

Copyright infringement is illegal. Stealing is illegal. However, copyright infringement is not stealing.

BTW, libel is illegal, too, so how about you STFU with it already? :rolleyes:
 
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Wondernerd said:
Since people have always murdered each other, still murder each other and will keep murdering each until there is nobody left to murder, Laws forbiding the killing of another person should be abolished. Besides, some people just need killing.

You quoted one sentence, yet couldn't be bothered to comprehend it. :rolleyes: Note the use of the word "more":
Critofur said:
Passing more laws to try to stop piracy is a TERRIBLE idea. .
He didn't say a thing about abolishing laws against copyright infringement. Murder is already illegal, do we need more laws against it? :rolleyes:
 

Wondernerd

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The way I see it, Copyright Infringement is theft. It may not be legally prosecutable as theft, but there is still a financial loss. You are getting a product without paying for it. I also don't buy the "People downloading it will buy it anyway unless they are the kind of people who weren't going to buy it anyway" theory. People downloading a product for free will do so unless there is a punishment against it. People see it as just because a big corporation deserves it for having the audacity to have more money. Afterall, it is always the victim's fault for the crime. If they didn't want to be a victim, they wouldn't give me reason to make them one.

Personally, I've seen software companies go under due to lack of sales because of Piracy. My bit from the beginning has been that Activision will see that Doom 3 cost 15 million plus another 10 million(number pulled out of Bob Executive's ass) due to piracy, so if Doom 3 doesn't make at least 40 million, no Doom 4. Or what other great game will be lost because if they can't make their money back on the Doom franchise, they aren't going to take a chance on some unheard of game named S.T.A.L.K.E.R.?



WickedAngel said:
10:1 says these moral crusaders have at least one illegal MP3 on their hard-drive

The closest I have to an illegal MP3 are some Amos N Andy bits my grandfather bootlegged off the radio. Old school piracy. Spent three weeks with a Reel hooked up to the computer on that.
 
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Let's go look up the most relevant definition of "steal" (yes, technically, there is a definition that fits with how it is being misused by some in this thread, but it's along the same lines as "murdering" someone at a game: nothing is removed, no one is actually dead)...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=steal
steal ...

v. intr.
To commit theft. ...

OK... so let's look up "theft"...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=theft
theft

\Theft\, n. [OE. thefte, AS. [thorn]i['e]f[eth]e, [thorn][=y]f[eth]e, [thorn]e['o]f[eth]e. See Thief.] 1. (Law) The act of stealing; specifically, the felonious taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same; larceny.

Note: To constitute theft there must be a taking without the owner's consent, and it must be unlawful or felonious; every part of the property stolen must be removed, however slightly, from its former position; and it must be, at least momentarily, in the complete possession of the thief

Making a copy, of anything, CAN'T be theft. It is simply impossible.
 

Met-AL

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I wouldn't touch Bit Torrent with a 10 foot pole for warez. I used Bit Torrent for the first time this spring to download a legitament file. While I was at it, I decided to see what else I could find to download with this marvelous new thing I had. Downloaded a few episodes of Deadwood, and then I came accross EA NBA Live 2004. Hmm....let's see what that is. Big mistake. Entertainment Software Association contacted my ISP and I got my one and final warning from them. The next time I am caught doing anything questionable, I lose my braodband service. They are the only providers in town. I was actaully shocked to see how easy it was to get caught and how fast they were able to react. It was the very next day when I recieved the email warning from my ISP. It had all the details of the files that I downloaded and when and from what IP address I downloaded it from and to what IP addresses I shared it with while I was downloading it.
 
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Wondernerd said:
The way I see it, Copyright Infringement is theft. It may not be legally prosecutable as theft, but there is still a financial loss. You are getting a product without paying for it. I also don't buy the "People downloading it will buy it anyway unless they are the kind of people who weren't going to buy it anyway" theory. ...

Legality aside, are there things in life that you wouldn't buy, but wouldn't turn down getting for free? Certainly, there are cases where copyright infringement leads to financial loss, but not every single instance of copyright infringement constitutes a financial loss. Do you seriously think that a kid with thousands of illicit MP3s, games, and movies, but having barely any income, would have purchased every single one of those items had they not obtaind them via copyright infringement? No, the kid isn't right in his/her behavior, but the actual financial impact of that behavior is minimal.
 

Wondernerd

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Copying isn't stealing. I'm fairly certain I didn't say Copy=Theft. I did say that taking a product and using it as much as you want with out paying for it when payment is expected for the product is stealing. I also feel that forcing me to pay 40 dollars for the White Album that I already have on LP and Cassette is stealing.

Cardboard Hammer said:
He didn't say a thing about abolishing laws against copyright infringement. Murder is already illegal, do we need more laws against it?

He said the only way to stop piracy is to make all software free. Which would neutralize most copyright infringement laws. Murder laws change and are added and removed all the time. The way to end murder would be to make muder legal. See, because it wouldn't be muder anymore.

Copyright laws also change all the time. The 1997 NET(No Electonic Theft) Act made it criminal to make unauthorized copies, i.e. exceeds fair use or is distributed to the point of causing the point of exceeding 1000$US aggregate (going from memory. I'm sure I got the exacts wrong). So, the Federal government attaches criminal penalties to you taking more then 1000$US from a copyright holder. I call that theft and considering Theft is in the title of the act, so does the DOJ.
 
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Wondernerd said:
Copying isn't stealing. I'm fairly certain I didn't say Copy=Theft. I did say that taking a product and using it as much as you want with out paying for it when payment is expected for the product is stealing. I also feel that forcing me to pay 40 dollars for the White Album that I already have on LP and Cassette is stealing.

The definitions post wasn't in response to you, but did you read it? If you assert that illegally copying and using a product = stealing, then, since stealing = theft, you're asserting that illegally copying and using a product = theft.

EDIT: You said:
Wondernerd said:
The way I see it, Copyright Infringement is theft. ...
Since Copyright Infringement requires copying, then you did effectively state that "Copy=Theft", at least in cases where the copying constitutes infringement.

Wondernerd said:
He said the only way to stop piracy is to make all software free. Which would neutralize most copyright infringement laws. Murder laws change and are added and removed all the time. The way to end murder would be to make muder legal. See, because it wouldn't be muder anymore.

You're not quite getting his point. Laws exist against both murder and piracy, why is there a need for MORE laws against them? Sure, if there were no laws against them, they wouldn't be illegal, but I have yet to see anyone assert that there should be no laws against either of them, barring your sarcasm.

Wondernerd said:
Copyright laws also change all the time. The 1997 NET(No Electonic Theft) Act made it criminal to make unauthorized copies, i.e. exceeds fair use or is distributed to the point of causing the point of exceeding 1000$US aggregate (going from memory. I'm sure I got the exacts wrong). So, the Federal government attaches criminal penalties to you taking more then 1000$US from a copyright holder. I call that theft and considering Theft is in the title of the act, so does the DOJ.
There's all manner of bullshit in the titles of Acts. Also, whether the DOJ considers it theft or not can't be determined by the title of the Act, as the DOJ didn't create it; the DOJ has zero power to create laws.
 

Raedon

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Met-AL said:
and then I came accross EA NBA Live 2004. Hmm....let's see what that is. Big mistake. Entertainment Software Association contacted my ISP and I got my one and final warning from them. The next time I am caught doing anything questionable, I lose my braodband service.

Huh?

I work for a cable Company a LARGE one and the only dada we have been legally ordered to give over was child porn people (which is fine with me) and the RIAA Mp3 stuff which has pretty much stopped (and we always gave them a hard time because even the owner of the Company hates them) Never been contacted for software theft and I get to observe data streams off blades and I see what they are doing out there..

More then likely your ISP is really shitty and you've been using to much bandwidth so you are cutting into their profit as they see it. Do yourself a favor and set up two computers and just send tons of 24/7 bandwidth, just text files that say "F you" just to piss them off because they then have to change to "You are using to much bandwidth" and if it isn't in your contract you could just have a talk with the CEO and the newspaper.


our system Bandwidth use:

#1 Porn (duh)
#2 large surfers of high content sites like FLASH
#3 music
#4 movies
#5 "unknown" large files.. usually disc images or rars/zips/etc.
#6 SPAM (in) This will be at the top soon.. you can only ban so many messages with p.e.n.i.s. or whatever in then the body.
 

Raedon

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Just wanted to throw this out there. Game developers don't get paid when you buy a game used. In fact they have been trying to ban used game sales in Japan for almost a decade.

Is buying a used game bad? obviously not if you can buy a used car. It is the same thing as downloading the game though. The only difference is what is in your checking account.
 
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Raedon said:
Just wanted to throw this out there. Game developers don't get paid when you buy a game used. In fact they have been trying to ban used game sales in Japan for almost a decade.

Is buying a used game bad? obviously not if you can buy a used car. It is the same thing as downloading the game though. The only difference is what is in your checking account.
Why should they get paid for used games? They were paid when the game was bought the first time. They don't need to get paid more than once for a game.

I'm one of the people who downloaded Doom 3, and then bought it anyway when it came out. I used some of my $83 of store credit at Gamestop to do it, though. So both my illegal and legal copy of Doom 3 were "free."

Haha, let the jealousy ensue.
 

Staples

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Um, if you used store credit for it, it wasn't free. You prepaid technically.
 

GeForceX

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Yeah, much like $10 dollars or so, but still close as it gets to free.

-J.
 

emorphien

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CrouchingTiger said:
Well obviously my store credit came from previously bought games. That's why I said "free" with quotes.
Seemed pretty obvious to me that's what you meant. :)
 

Wondernerd

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Since Copyright Infringement requires copying, then you did effectively state that "Copy=Theft", at least in cases where the copying constitutes infringement.

You just said what I said. Copying doesn't equal theft. I have copies of most of my cassettes and CDs into a digital audio format. I don't distribute these, and I have the original. It becomes theft when I decide my copy of Dark Side of the Moon needs to go to a few million of my closest friends on the internet.

Also, whether the DOJ considers it theft or not can't be determined by the title of the Act, as the DOJ didn't create it; the DOJ has zero power to create laws.

I know the DOJ doesn't create laws. They do prosecute under laws. And considering all the lawyers involved in the creation of laws, they wouldn't have named it "Theft". The DOJ will prosecute you for copyright infringement using a dollar amount of money that you have caused the victim to lose.
 
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