GPU prices — is the worst behind us ?

Lakados

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That's fair. I have a 50/50 experience ever since my 9800gt. Best AMD card for 1440p would be a 6700xt/6750xt. There's currently a MSI 6700xt on Newegg for $380+ $20 rebate. Amazon has an XFX for $380.

If one doesn't care about raytracing/ whatever non game features on Nvidia this is the best bang for buck for 1440p. Better than the 3060ti at $450 (lol) and can beat/match the 3070 depending on title.
In my case here for work we're an Nvidia shop, CUDA. Grid, and the Unreal student stuff, so for the last 10 years here I have been completely inundated with Nvidia, they keep in contact, and they request any tickets that have been submitted to me that were caused by their hardware or drivers. They are incredibly attentive, so I just haven't had a need to look elsewhere but the wife's machine needs a bit of an upgrade as the daughter is using it for more than the 1080 I crammed in there can handle and since the GPU market has been such a dumpster fire for the last 2 years I figured why not shop around for my personal stuff and see what the grass is like on the other side for a bit.
 

Marees

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Nvidia Ampere prices have started rising again while AMD RDNA2 prices are still dropping

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/nvidi...gain-amd-radeon-rx-6900-xt-stabilizes-at-654/

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/msi-radeon-rx-6600-8gb-deal

FiREYRZXwA0Ks1z.png
 

sfsuphysics

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Because people are buying the 3090s...
I think it has more to do with the pricing on the 40 series nvidia cards, people are serious worried that a 4070 is going to cost $800 msrp

edit: I put 3070 instead of 4070
 
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Lakados

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I think it has more to do with the pricing on the 40 series nvidia cards, people are serious worried that a 3070 is going to cost $800 msrp
But the pricing worked, the 3000 series is moving. NVidia’s excess stock is moving which is a big deal to have gone for their next financial report.
 

Lakados

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Are they tho? My MC is overflowing with 3xxx and 4080s.
Nvidia's investor reports say they are, but that just goes to show just how overstocked the 3000 series is, between Nvidia and their AIBs somebody F-ed this up and it's gonna hurt.
 

DooKey

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Nvidia's investor reports say they are, but that just goes to show just how overstocked the 3000 series is, between Nvidia and their AIBs somebody F-ed this up and it's gonna hurt.
The AIB's were scalping themselves and wanted the gravy train to continue so they placed huge orders with NV for 3XXX GPU's.
 

Lakados

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The AIB's were scalping themselves and wanted the gravy train to continue so they placed huge orders with NV for 3XXX GPU's.
Yep, but now because of it Nvidia is on the hook for them all, they are collectively begging Nvidia to do a buy-back as they did for Gigabyte back with the 1060s and 1080s. It's no wonder Nvidia is gradually launching more and more of its own cards and relying less and less on AIBs. EVGA was smart to get out, they are going to have time to reshift their focus and stay ahead of the curve.
 

DooKey

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Yep, but now because of it Nvidia is on the hook for them all, they are collectively begging Nvidia to do a buy-back as they did for Gigabyte back with the 1060s and 1080s. It's no wonder Nvidia is gradually launching more and more of its own cards and relying less and less on AIBs. EVGA was smart to get out, they are going to have time to reshift their focus and stay ahead of the curve.
I'm not so sure NV is going to get rid of all of their AIB's. I think they'll keep one or two that sell what are perceived to be a premium GPU.
 

Lakados

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I'm not so sure NV is going to get rid of all of their AIB's. I think they'll keep one or two that sell what are perceived to be a premium GPU.
Obviously, they won't cut them out completely, but they will just increase their own production of the FE series, and AIBs will simply order less as a result, others may choose that competing with the FE cards isn't worth it and exit stage left as EVGA did.
 

LukeTbk

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Are they tho? My MC is overflowing with 3xxx and 4080s.
Cannot find a RTX 3080 in the Dallas store:
https://www.microcenter.com/search/...by=match&N=4294966937+4294808776&myStore=true

Single 3090TI, single used openBOX 3080TI that seem to be all of the relevant Ampere card

Cannot find a 3080 at best buy erither:
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/search...rue&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960&keys=keys

Similar in canada:
All sold ou the 3080, 3080TI (at least when you click ont hem that what their website say):
https://www.canadacomputers.com/search/results_details.php?keywords=rtx 3080&category=VDC.243

Leaving close to a microcenter could give an different availability viewpoint than the rest of the world has.

What look like a complete absence of BlackFriday deal even a price creeping up, they seem to be getting rare in the new retail sales side.
 

sfsuphysics

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Cannot find a 3080 at best buy erither:
The problem is BB completely fucked over their system when it came to the 30 series of cards, individual regions get cards, and they largely require you to pick up locally but you have to order online the days of just ordering something and having it sent via a warehouse seem to be gone, hell I wouldn't even mind it if you had to do local pickup just having it sent from anywhere in the country. So there very well may be some out there, you just have no idea which regions may have it. For instance, only thing in my region, is a handful of 3060s and a 3060ti.
 

GoodBoy

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I wonder what the market was for 3090's, i.e. what quantity was sold. I think last year I calculated about 4 million in either a 6month or possibly 1 year period (I forget) using percentage from steam hardware survey times total steam users. But then there is the jd peddle research that was showing I think 9 million per year I believe. But those quantities were during a crypto boom.
Taking a wild ass guess, but I would think in the absence of the crypto boom, they could sell probably half those quantities, so 4 to 5 million a year. So far only 125k 4090's or so have been sold in 6 weeks, but no eta on new stock. It does seem that ASUS and MSI 4090's continue to trickle in. I do believe the demand is less for 4090's, as a stock watch twitch channel regularly has 40 to 60 viewers, and during the peak demand for 3090's the same channel had 1k to 2k viewers.
So Nvidia very likely limited initial quantities for multiple reasons.. 1, uncertainty as to what the market will bear in the absence of a crypto boom, 2, knowing that they are primarily competing against their own previous gen 3xxx which was both pretty awesome and sold in large quantities, and 3, trying to move what remains of the 3xxx stock.

Lots of places are OOS on 3xxx, so the stock issue might be resolving itself. I guess it depends on whether the middle men (ingram micro and equivalents) are willing to take on some 3xxx stock from AIB's. I'm guessing they are, but only in small amounts. They don't want to get stuck with stock themselves. This factor might slow down the depletion of 3xxx that the AIB's have. I don't know how much the AIB's have left of the 3xxx stock at this point.

With the holiday shopping season in full swing, if there was a time to get rid of the remaining 3xxx stock, it's now.

If AMD's latest gen has decent raytracing performance, that should help lower prices across the board.

I'm guessing by February, 3xxx stock issues will be mostly resolved, and 4xxx stock should tick up.
 

Lakados

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I wonder what the market was for 3090's, i.e. what quantity was sold. I think last year I calculated about 4 million in either a 6month or possibly 1 year period (I forget) using percentage from steam hardware survey times total steam users. But then there is the jd peddle research that was showing I think 9 million per year I believe. But those quantities were during a crypto boom.
Taking a wild ass guess, but I would think in the absence of the crypto boom, they could sell probably half those quantities, so 4 to 5 million a year. So far only 125k 4090's or so have been sold in 6 weeks, but no eta on new stock. It does seem that ASUS and MSI 4090's continue to trickle in. I do believe the demand is less for 4090's, as a stock watch twitch channel regularly has 40 to 60 viewers, and during the peak demand for 3090's the same channel had 1k to 2k viewers.
So Nvidia very likely limited initial quantities for multiple reasons.. 1, uncertainty as to what the market will bear in the absence of a crypto boom, 2, knowing that they are primarily competing against their own previous gen 3xxx which was both pretty awesome and sold in large quantities, and 3, trying to move what remains of the 3xxx stock.

Lots of places are OOS on 3xxx, so the stock issue might be resolving itself. I guess it depends on whether the middle men (ingram micro and equivalents) are willing to take on some 3xxx stock from AIB's. I'm guessing they are, but only in small amounts. They don't want to get stuck with stock themselves. This factor might slow down the depletion of 3xxx that the AIB's have. I don't know how much the AIB's have left of the 3xxx stock at this point.

With the holiday shopping season in full swing, if there was a time to get rid of the remaining 3xxx stock, it's now.

If AMD's latest gen has decent raytracing performance, that should help lower prices across the board.

I'm guessing by February, 3xxx stock issues will be mostly resolved, and 4xxx stock should tick up.
The 4090’s have been by all accounts moving very well considering the small market they appeal to.

The 3000 series as a whole is still very appealing, the 4000 series doesn’t add a lot that is exceptionally new, feature wise DLSS 3 while technically cool, is not a huge selling feature and has a very limited use case. The 7900 cards aren’t available yet and don’t improve much over the 3000 series season unless you are looking for 4K gaming in which the 4090 is the superior performing choice.

There was until recently large quantities of 3060-3090ti cards available all over the market and distributors were very motivated to make them go away.

Nvidia found a nice work around for their silicon contract woes that has satisfied their AIBs and TSMC. They focused on the 4090s, did a little better than paper launch of the 4080 while publicly giving it a terrible MSRP but supposedly internally giving the AIBs the original pricing so they are getting a huge markup on any they have sold. So when the price gets “reduced” back to what it was originally going to be before they inflated it to move the 3000 series cards none of NVidia’s partners get burned.
Then they took the extra silicon allotments and have moved ahead their H100 production, normally they focus on producing their workstation cards in Feb-April so they can get those in market for June July so they can ensure availability for the end of Q4 beginning of Q1 so big projects can spend up remaining budgets and dip into the new ones as needed. This essentially delays the 4000 series launch as AIBs begged them to do, they can then announce their new cards at CES and tease at new pricing to launch the mid range and the original pricing for the 4000 series in time for Easter. Using the block they would normally focus on the workstation cards for consumer cards instead.
 

sfsuphysics

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I wonder what the market was for 3090's, i.e. what quantity was sold. I think last year I calculated about 4 million in either a 6month or possibly 1 year period (I forget) using percentage from steam hardware survey times total steam users. But then there is the jd peddle research that was showing I think 9 million per year I believe. But those quantities were during a crypto boom.
Taking a wild ass guess, but I would think in the absence of the crypto boom, they could sell probably half those quantities, so 4 to 5 million a year. So far only 125k 4090's or so have been sold in 6 weeks, but no eta on new stock.
I would hazard a guess, just as wild ass as yours mind you, that those 4-5 mil a year quantities are vastly over estimated. During the crypto-boom there were three main groups that could be tied to crypto, those who wanted raw crypto mining capability and that was the sole reason for the purchase, scalpers who knew they could flip them for huge bucks to crypto people, and lastly those who bought well outside their normal range with the justification that crypto in the off time would make up for the cost with crypto mining (i.e. normally buy mid range cards, but got a 3090 because they could make back $100/month with crypto for 12 hours a day, or whatever). This last group I did see pop up on here and I'd imagine other buyers may have gone in with the same mentality. Now we see only 125k sold, sure some could be stocking issues but I do think those same people willing to buy 3090s and justify the cost with mining on the side just don't exist anymore, and with crypto miners in general not being an issue all you really have are scalpers who probably are finding no one* really wants them that badly. (*by "no one" I mean in the numbers that we saw with 3090s)
 

sphinx99

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Cannot find a RTX 3080 in the Dallas store:
https://www.microcenter.com/search/...by=match&N=4294966937+4294808776&myStore=true

Single 3090TI, single used openBOX 3080TI that seem to be all of the relevant Ampere card

Cannot find a 3080 at best buy erither:
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/search...rue&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960&keys=keys

Similar in canada:
All sold ou the 3080, 3080TI (at least when you click ont hem that what their website say):
https://www.canadacomputers.com/search/results_details.php?keywords=rtx 3080&category=VDC.243

Leaving close to a microcenter could give an different availability viewpoint than the rest of the world has.

What look like a complete absence of BlackFriday deal even a price creeping up, they seem to be getting rare in the new retail sales side.
This is what I'm seeing locally as well. No one has 3080 or 3090 stock. No one has 4090 stock. No one is buying 4080s. It makes me wonder if nVidia is doing all that much brisk business at the moment. You can't generate revenue if you have nothing to sell.

Local store has plenty of $1,600 RTX 4080s though ;)

https://www.centralcomputer.com/asu...oc-edition-graphics-card-pci-express-4-0.html
 

Lakados

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This is what I'm seeing locally as well. No one has 3080 or 3090 stock. No one has 4090 stock. No one is buying 4080s. It makes me wonder if nVidia is doing all that much brisk business at the moment. You can't generate revenue if you have nothing to sell.

Local store has plenty of $1,600 RTX 4080s though ;)

https://www.centralcomputer.com/asu...oc-edition-graphics-card-pci-express-4-0.html
Nvidia has been moving lots of its AI units, after August 2023 Nvidia is no longer allowed to sell their A100 and H100 units to China, so all those clients are working double time to secure orders to arrive before that date and Nvidia is using this opportunity to try and meet that demand. The limited amount of new silicon that Nvidia is slinging on the consumer level is all going to feed that Chinese need.
 

DPI

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Nvidia has been moving lots of its AI units, after August 2023 Nvidia is no longer allowed to sell their A100 and H100 units to China, so all those clients are working double time to secure orders to arrive before that date and Nvidia is using this opportunity to try and meet that demand. The limited amount of new silicon that Nvidia is slinging on the consumer level is all going to feed that Chinese need.
Datacenter is Nvidia BFF, and Jensen's taxidermied rhinos arent going to buy themselves. Definitely more activity buzzing in revenue, sales activity, backroom deals, frontroom deals, bedroom deals and supply chain flow than what someone walking into Microcenter might conclude based on what's on the shelves in that brief moment.

You take the global arms trade, then swap the guns for silicon but raise the stakes - what's left? A thousand mass protests lighting up all over China, all over 4080 pricing.
 
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sharknice

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1080 ti is a great card.

I also still use a 1080ti... Because my 3090 can't fit in my tower with my 4090. And I need to be able to run 8 screens.

I actually used to use a 650 to run my extra displays, but it's so old the drivers needed for the 4090 don't work with the 650.
 
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D-EJ915

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Cannot find a RTX 3080 in the Dallas store:
https://www.microcenter.com/search/...by=match&N=4294966937+4294808776&myStore=true

Single 3090TI, single used openBOX 3080TI that seem to be all of the relevant Ampere card

Cannot find a 3080 at best buy erither:
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/search...rue&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960&keys=keys

Similar in canada:
All sold ou the 3080, 3080TI (at least when you click ont hem that what their website say):
https://www.canadacomputers.com/search/results_details.php?keywords=rtx 3080&category=VDC.243

Leaving close to a microcenter could give an different availability viewpoint than the rest of the world has.

What look like a complete absence of BlackFriday deal even a price creeping up, they seem to be getting rare in the new retail sales side.
It's funny because people outside the US online (like over on overclock.net) talk all the time about overflowing with stock but there's barely any here at all lol. Pretty wild how distribution works.
 

sharknice

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It's funny because people outside the US online (like over on overclock.net) talk all the time about overflowing with stock but there's barely any here at all lol. Pretty wild how distribution works.
It was somewhat the same thing when the 30 series was new too. They must be overestimating the European market.
 

Marees

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Digital Foundry commentary on GPU prices:

is next-gen GPU pricing out of control?​

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...-next-gen-gpu-pricing-out-of-control#comments

Tl;dr — Like It Or Lump It

surprising to me that over two years on from its debut, it's impossible to buy a brand new RTX 3080 at its £649 UK launch price.

all of the new GPUs we've seen so far have been aimed at the high-end enthusiast gamer. We've still yet to see where prices will land for AMD and Nvidia's offerings in the cheaper price ranges. The question is, of course, the extent to which gen-on-gen price jumps will continue as we breach the $500/£500 barrier.
 

jbltecnicspro

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Digital Foundry commentary on GPU prices:

is next-gen GPU pricing out of control?​

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...-next-gen-gpu-pricing-out-of-control#comments

Tl;dr — Like It Or Lump It
Why not both… most games still play fine on my GTX-970. I’m still running 1080p. The kids don’t care that Spyro isn’t in 4K. But that’s me. I think that for most people who have now settled into casual land, it’s not all bad. I see used 1070’s go for $125 now. Feels like the used market has settled into sanity again… for now. :)
 

1337Goat

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Why not both… most games still play fine on my GTX-970. I’m still running 1080p. The kids don’t care that Spyro isn’t in 4K. But that’s me. I think that for most people who have now settled into casual land, it’s not all bad. I see used 1070’s go for $125 now. Feels like the used market has settled into sanity again… for now. :)
Yeah, exactly. I'm still waiting for an enthusiast level card that appeals to me, no matter the price, but nonetheless, I'm mostly happy with my RX 590. I mean, in terms of product numbers, a 590 is 3500 away from a 4090, and that's a big number, right? =p
But nonetheless, if there was an older, classic game I wanted to play, I could indeed play it. But I also enjoy AAA games, and thus I think I can't help but eventually plan to get something a little more sparkly.
 

Halon

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Digital Foundry commentary on GPU prices:

is next-gen GPU pricing out of control?​

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...-next-gen-gpu-pricing-out-of-control#comments

Tl;dr — Like It Or Lump It
The short answer is yes. Nvidia's salad days for revenue have already begun to fall after crypto's collapse, and they're trying to maintain their revenue numbers by refusing to lower prices. AMD's targeted the server market effectively and makes more money doing so. As a result, the amount of their wafer allocation from TSMC is skewed heavily toward CPUs, with another big chunk reserved for their obligations to consoles and custom chips, and GPUs are now treated as an opportunistic market. At around 10% of the market, they can't apply pressure to make prices sane and are happy to make a higher per-unit profit by (generally) trailing Nvidia. And Intel's still too new to the scene and in the process of getting its new house in order to offer much relief (though I'll say I've been happy with my A750). So we're stuck until Nvidia breaks.
 

kirbyrj

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The short answer is yes. Nvidia's salad days for revenue have already begun to fall after crypto's collapse, and they're trying to maintain their revenue numbers by refusing to lower prices. AMD's targeted the server market effectively and makes more money doing so. As a result, the amount of their wafer allocation from TSMC is skewed heavily toward CPUs, with another big chunk reserved for their obligations to consoles and custom chips, and GPUs are now treated as an opportunistic market. At around 10% of the market, they can't apply pressure to make prices sane and are happy to make a higher per-unit profit by (generally) trailing Nvidia. And Intel's still too new to the scene and in the process of getting its new house in order to offer much relief (though I'll say I've been happy with my A750). So we're stuck until Nvidia breaks.

Nvidia is like Disney World. They just keep raising prices until people stop going. Stop buying Nvidia and the prices will fall. Or buy used I guess.
 

1337Goat

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The short answer is yes. Nvidia's salad days for revenue have already begun to fall after crypto's collapse, and they're trying to maintain their revenue numbers by refusing to lower prices.


That only makes sense from our perspective. But Nvidia needs to think of the long-term, and thus it becomes *incredibly* obvious why they have raised prices to the figurative roof.
It's because they KNOW the prices will fall. If they can survive probably less than 5 years of bad press, (with three of those years already spent) then by the time a real competitor comes along, Nvidia will have plenty of buffer room to lower their prices, especially lower them relative to a competitor who wants in on the high prices.

People forget things easily, and the moment AMD or Intel or another company joins the GPU scene, Nvidia will be the first to be the "good guy" and begin lowering prices.
But all they need to do is lower prices a little bit, and they will STILL have higher margins than they did back in the 2000s or 2010s. Raising prices this high was a very very good idea for Nvidia. It would be foolish to do otherwise, and the only thing more wicked than deliberate evil is accidental stupidity. Nvidia did the right thing in their situation. From their subjective perspective.

So in other words, Nvidia already plans to lower prices. Nvidia just needs to play bad cop until another bad cop arrives on the scene, and then suddenly Nvidia will look like a hero. Nvidia is taking advantage of abundance so that when times get tough, they will have plenty of room to lower prices and look like such a generous, charming company. With affordable products too. ;)
 

GoodBoy

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I think the 4080 and 4070ti both need $100 price cuts.

But, it's complicated. Part of the high price is to keep revenue up, part is to encourage sales of the new old stock 3xxx, part of it is to (maybe) keep scalpers at bay. But there really isn't much market for scalped cards, not compared to early 2022 anyway. And from what I can tell, most 3xxx stock is depleted. So these cards can and should get $100 price cuts imho. If they did a $200 cut on the 4080 down to $999, it would become THE card to own. Kinda crazy to hear that in my head (for that price). It would beat previous gen, plus AMD's current gen. Demand would go up. I think it's good for them if their product stays in-demand.

Even at 1199, its not that they are not selling. Some models are selling out. And I am not sure we should expect or want for all models to sell out. I would rather nVidia gets the extra $200 than some damn scalper. At least some of that gets re-invested into R&D. Once the board of directors gets used to the new normal demand they will see it makes sense to lower prices. Pretty sure it's just a matter of time. At the 3 month mark would be ideal. They suck out all of the extra profit from early adopters, then lower price to increase demand. If yields are good and they got the chips, it makes sense to price them where they will readily sell.
 

serpretetsky

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That only makes sense from our perspective. But Nvidia needs to think of the long-term, and thus it becomes *incredibly* obvious why they have raised prices to the figurative roof.
It's because they KNOW the prices will fall. If they can survive probably less than 5 years of bad press, (with three of those years already spent) then by the time a real competitor comes along, Nvidia will have plenty of buffer room to lower their prices, especially lower them relative to a competitor who wants in on the high prices.

People forget things easily, and the moment AMD or Intel or another company joins the GPU scene, Nvidia will be the first to be the "good guy" and begin lowering prices.
But all they need to do is lower prices a little bit, and they will STILL have higher margins than they did back in the 2000s or 2010s. Raising prices this high was a very very good idea for Nvidia. It would be foolish to do otherwise, and the only thing more wicked than deliberate evil is accidental stupidity. Nvidia did the right thing in their situation. From their subjective perspective.

So in other words, Nvidia already plans to lower prices. Nvidia just needs to play bad cop until another bad cop arrives on the scene, and then suddenly Nvidia will look like a hero. Nvidia is taking advantage of abundance so that when times get tough, they will have plenty of room to lower prices and look like such a generous, charming company. With affordable products too. ;)
Im not saying you're wrong, but I dont see how this is "incredibly obvious". My counterargument is that nvidia is simply setting a price on a particular product to maximize profit. And that they have always done this, and that they will continue to do this. And that the price you see is just a function of market conditions for the particular products nvidia is selling. Same as every other company generally does at any given time.

Of course im not a business expert. My only authority on this is the single macroeconomics 101 course i took in college.

edit: my only evidence here is that AMD has products priced roughly in the same ballpark. A little cheaper, but not much. And im assuming AMD and NVIDIA are not involved in some price fixing scheme, which I suppose they could be. Im also not sure what you mean by "the moment AMD ... joins the GPU scene". AMD is a direct competitor to NVIDIA in the GPU business and already has competitive products out.
 

1337Goat

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Im not saying you're wrong, but I dont see how this is "incredibly obvious". My counterargument is that nvidia is simply setting a price on a particular product to maximize profit. And that they have always done this, and that they will continue to do this. And that the price you see is just a function of market conditions for the particular products nvidia is selling. Same as every other company generally does at any given time.

Of course im not a business expert. My only authority on this is the single macroeconomics 101 course i took in college.

edit: my only evidence here is that AMD has products priced roughly in the same ballpark. A little cheaper, but not much. And im assuming AMD and NVIDIA are not involved in some price fixing scheme, which I suppose they could be. Im also not sure what you mean by "the moment AMD ... joins the GPU scene". AMD is a direct competitor to NVIDIA in the GPU business and already has competitive products out.

Yeah, you're right. I'd mean to say "incredibly obvious to Nvidia," and as for AMD joining the scene, you're of course right. Sorry.

Still, price fixing doesn't really seem like it is or isn't the issue. It could be, like you say, but at the same time, they don't really need to be.
The prices would be high either way, because if not Nvidia, then scalpers.
 
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Yeah, you're right. I'd mean to say "incredibly obvious to Nvidia," and as for AMD joining the scene, you're of course right. Sorry.

Still, price fixing doesn't really seem like it is or isn't the issue. It could be, like you say, but at the same time, they don't really need to be.
The prices would be high either way, because if not Nvidia, then scalpers.
Scalpers will only be making money if there is scarcity present, so they might be able to make money on 4090s. But not on 4080s or (most likely) 4070 ti because those are readily available in lots of stores.
 

WilyKit

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Nvidia is like Disney World. They just keep raising prices until people stop going. Stop buying Nvidia and the prices will fall. Or buy used I guess.
In many cases, buying used is simply helping fund someone else to buy new
 
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serpretetsky

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Is that a problem for you?
He's pointing out that if you buy used at presumably also inflated prices then you are still supporting the high prices indirectly. Used prices are usually still a function of the new price. In that case and in the context of kirbyrj's recommendation to "buy used i guess" that might be a bad idea.
 
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