Google Suspends Transfers of Technology with Huawei

Pieter3dnow

Pieter3dnow

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But Google will stop providing any technical support and collaboration for Android and Google services to Huawei going forward, the source said.
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Well if that is something serious enough to get the ball rolling on having their own version of an operating system with android compatibility , entertaining...
 
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faugusztin

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I feel sorry for all the people with Huawei phones here in Europe for no updates.

On other side i am glad a company like Huawei dissapears from EU market. Not for the reasons Trump banned them. I am glad they will be gone from software developers perspective. Huawei often decided to run their own, incompatible stuff, or just break things by simple stupidity. Good example is all the problems with push notifications on Huawei phones, where they set insanely aggressive "battery saving" features, resulting in OS often killing Firebase services, resulting in no push notifications. All in the name of "battery life".
 
5150Joker

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Is the CCP really dumb enough to sabotage one of their most successful companies or is the West being extra paranoid because China? Smartphone sales show Huawei skyrocketing while everyone else is losing marketshare so I wonder if there were other reasons behind going after them.
 
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Dead Parrot

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Google may have taken the opportunity to get some revenge or just get out of the deal over being 'encouraged' to create the great censorship model for their China services. Much easier to use the trade war as cover then deal with litigating breaking various contracts in China courts.

Haven't seen much evidence that Huawei is any worse at security then other network device makers. And anyone that doesn't understand that any smartphone, regardless of maker, is a personalized tracking device hasn't been paying attention or doesn't care. IMO, Huawei is an easy target much the same way Yum brand restaurants in China were targeted a few years back when China was having a bunch of food purity issues.
 
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faugusztin

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Dead Parrot said:
Haven't seen much evidence that Huawei is any worse at security then other network device makers. And anyone that doesn't understand that any smartphone, regardless of maker, is a personalized tracking device hasn't been paying attention or doesn't care. IMO, Huawei is an easy target much the same way Yum brand restaurants in China were targeted a few years back when China was having a bunch of food purity issues.
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This is not about the cell phone market, it is about the cell network gear market. Phones losing access to Google services are just a collateral damage.
 
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TekRok

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The fact that their campus copied every single building that is located in another country is reason enough to know that they copy the tech as well.
 
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Uvaman2

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So we are afraid of 'state run' Chinese companies becuase they may do the bidding of the Chinese government at a moment's notice. Things like:
Arresting American executive for 'confusing Chinese laws'.
Banning access to markets.
Cutting off supplies of key technology.
Imposing taffifs willy nilly.

Very dangerous those Chinese state run companies.

We on the other hand don't do ANY of it...
Lucky for they Chinese they can rely on us 100%.
Which is why is so weird they said they have backup plans and shit.
It just doesn't make sense, our companies aren't not state run and don't do these things on behalf of the government.
Duck and ducks.. and all that... I guess its what they see... Its just sooo strange these Chinese.
 
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Uvaman2

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Yeah! 'merica!
I wonder what our shopping carts will look like once the Chinese start screwing with us for real.
Maybe we will find out at this rate.
 
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Oldmodder

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You are all welcome to buy Danish products.
You are also welcome to make stuff here, but fair warning if you think EPA and IRS are tough,,,, you haven't seen nothing yet.
And if you think its cheap to produce here, think again, but at least your company don't have to pay health insurance ASO to your workers, thats one thing your and your workers tax Kronor got towards.

O and you better bring your own workforce, cuz even the most essential or simple jobs we cant seem to find people for here, so better BYO workforce. ( not Mexicans ) :)
 
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$trapped

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c3k said:
I am glad a president finally had the balls to to say "no" to a Chinese spy, err "tech", company.
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According to this recent Frontline episode, https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/trumps-tariff-strategy-can-be-traced-back-to-the-1980s/ (video link following article), the reason past administrations didn't do more to stop things like China's IP theft was because our companies asked them to not interfere. The problems we are having today stem from our corporate sector having increasingly too much influence as to how our government operates.
 
Pieter3dnow

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TheOne&OnlyZeke

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Funny timing for me
I'm swapping my Mate 20 Pro for an iPhone XS Max today with a mate.
He wants an android unit

Existing phones will continue to get updates, so no worries there.
And if they release a new version of Android...well thats when the modding community will get the ball rolling
 
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InorganicMatter

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Tech journalists are acting like this is the end for Huawei, but aren’t they just going to fork Android, build their own ecosystem, and keep going?

They’re the largest cell phone company in the world. If they fork Android, their version will become the de facto standard overnight...
 
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c3k

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$trapped said:
According to this recent Frontline episode, https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/trumps-tariff-strategy-can-be-traced-back-to-the-1980s/ (video link following article), the reason past administrations didn't do more to stop things like China's IP theft was because our companies asked them to not interfere. The problems we are having today stem from our corporate sector having increasingly too much influence as to how our government operates.
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Interesting. That points to how corrupted by corporate interests our politicians have been. Once again, that affirms my comment upstream. Good to have a president not beholden to moneyed interests.
 
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ThatITGuy

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c3k said:
Interesting. That points to how corrupted by corporate interests our politicians have been. Once again, that affirms my comment upstream. Good to have a president not beholden to moneyed interests.
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Why do you think he is going against the corporate interests instead of corporate interests shifting or bigger money interests asserting their influence?
 
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Jagger100

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5150Joker said:
Is the CCP really dumb enough to sabotage one of their most successful companies or is the West being extra paranoid because China? Smartphone sales show Huawei skyrocketing while everyone else is losing marketshare so I wonder if there were other reasons behind going after them.
Click to expand...
There's a lot of smoke over this issue. But we're basically on the verge, or past the verge of depending on critical weapon components from the country we will be pointing them at in the not so distant future. That makes zero sense. Well, except for treasonous investors and politicians.

Take a look at food. At one time the US was the world's breadbasket. Despite growing populations countries worked decades to get off US dependence. Having Significant Food Exports are a occasional thing now. They did it for security and autonomy. Why not the US when it comes to tech and industry?
 
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$trapped

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c3k said:
Interesting. That points to how corrupted by corporate interests our politicians have been. Once again, that affirms my comment upstream. Good to have a president not beholden to moneyed interests.
Click to expand...

Had to re-read that last part to make sure I wasn't seeing things. Trump's only purpose in life is the accumulation - or at least the appearance of accumulation - of money. Therefore he is incredibly beholden to moneyed interests. Why do you think he uses Wall Street as a barometer of the economy when everyone knows the real economy is much bigger than just what happens on Wall Street? There's also this to chew on: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/30/trump-tax-cut-law-investigation-worker-benefits
 
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Nebell

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This is bullshit. The US is forcing Huawei completely from making mobile phones this way. Unless they make their own OS. Now this affects not just the US, Huawei and China, but the whole fucking world. Huawei has phones better than Samsung and Apple. And FYI, I have yet to see proof that the Chinese government is spying on us through Huawei phones. However, there is plenty of proof that NSA is spying through Apple at the very least.
We'll see what EU has something about this, it might just be able to make Google give back the license to make Android phones again.
 
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Uvaman2

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Nebell said:
This is bullshit. The US is forcing Huawei completely from making mobile phones this way. Unless they make their own OS. Now this affects not just the US, Huawei and China, but the whole fucking world. Huawei has phones better than Samsung and Apple. And FYI, I have yet to see proof that the Chinese government is spying on us through Huawei phones. However, there is plenty of proof that NSA is spying through Apple at the very least.
We'll see what EU has something about this, it might just be able to make Google give back the license to make Android phones again.
Click to expand...
Well, they do have their own os.... And they can use open source android and run with it... No play store .. but also no goggle ad revenue to google?
Might not be such a horrible thing.. if they manage to keep market share outside china, or even just within AND be both software/ ad revenue and hardware... It might actually be a good thing for them.
Now that said, substituting google is described as "impossible".
 
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faugusztin

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Substituting Google is not impossible. But at least in EU, nobody will buy a phone without Play Store.
 
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lcpiper

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Nebell said:
This is bullshit. The US is forcing Huawei completely from making mobile phones this way. Unless they make their own OS. Now this affects not just the US, Huawei and China, but the whole fucking world. Huawei has phones better than Samsung and Apple. And FYI, I have yet to see proof that the Chinese government is spying on us through Huawei phones. However, there is plenty of proof that NSA is spying through Apple at the very least.
We'll see what EU has something about this, it might just be able to make Google give back the license to make Android phones again.
Click to expand...


Wow. Do you really think anyone is going to offer you proof?

That is not how the world works my friend. If the US and their allies do have proof, then they gained that proof through a source. They are not going to jeopardize that source by divulging "proof" to make you feel good about the deal. They aren't going to tell the little people because if the Chinese figure out what we know, and how we found out, then they'll plug that hole and it'll be harder to find out next time the Chinese think they'll slip something buy us.

In the mean time, as long as China doesn't know what we learned exactly, and how we learned it, they have to either suck it up and drive on, meaning the source potentially remains in place, or they have to change all kinds of stuff, processes, software, hardware, even people. A massively expensive proposition with no guarantees of success.

And the US isn't really claiming that the Chinese are spying on us through the phones, though they say it's possible. The US is claiming that China is either spying, or planning to spy on us through the Network Infrastructure that they sell to ISPs world wide. Those really big routers and switches, etc. It means to stop this the US is blocking the transfer of US tech to Chinese Companies, which HuaWei is one. Without that tech, HuaWei and the others will not be able to compete for long. It's a very big stick and I doubt the US would use it lightly. Too many US companies are reliant on this business.

So you might not think there is any proof. I see the action itself as proof enough. If you want to think it's just Trump off the rails that's up to you. I like to think that there is more to my country than just a President, and that the President we have isn't so shallow as to disrupt a great number of US businesses on a whim.

OH, and you don't really think that a HuaWei phone is all that much better than the rest of them?
 
IdiotInCharge

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faugusztin said:
Substituting Google is not impossible. But at least in EU, nobody will buy a phone without Play Store.
Click to expand...

Assume you mean Android phone- obviously Apple phones would still come with their Store.

And the biggest issue affecting Huawei and their consumer customers outside of China will be the lack of Play Store access. Perhaps that's something that could be mitigated by carriers, i.e., Huawei supplies the hardware and the base open-source spin of Android, and then carriers stick the Google stuff on there after the fact.

As for Huawei's infrastructure stuff- yeah, I have a hard time understanding anyone outside of China or immediate Sinosphere using it for infrastructure. UK using US products, US using UK products? Cool, except you'd still want to do it in a limited fashion. But if I were in China I wouldn't want to be reliant on US parts and vice versa.

Just the issues of sourcing critical equipment from a foreign manufacturer represent sustainability vulnerabilities. Not just political posturing, but natural and man-made disasters (to include terrorist attacks on the foreign source) are things that nations must consider.

And yes, mobile infrastructure is absolutely critical infrastructure.
 
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faugusztin

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You can't afford that "non-foreign infrastructure" even in US. You can choose Nokia (Finland), Ericsson (Sweden), Huawei (China), ZTE (China), Samsung (South Korea). Nobody says US should buy Huawei, but in many countries, it is either no infrastructure, or Huawei supplied one.
 
IdiotInCharge

IdiotInCharge

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faugusztin said:
You can't afford that "non-foreign infrastructure" even in US. You can choose Nokia (Finland), Ericsson (Sweden), Huawei (China), ZTE (China), Samsung (South Korea). Nobody says US should buy Huawei, but in many countries, it is either no infrastructure, or Huawei supplied one.
Click to expand...

I wonder if this is why Intel is getting into the business too- might even be at the beckoning of the USG, in order to have a 'local' option.

With respect to countries that can only afford Huawei, but are in economic and military pacts with the US (i.e., EU / NATO), I wonder if this would be a decent subsidization opportunity for the US and/or major allies.
 
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Deleted member 243478

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Australia blocked Huawei quite a few years ago for the same reasons.
 
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Deleted member 243478

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Nebell said:
This is bullshit. The US is forcing Huawei completely from making mobile phones this way. Unless they make their own OS. Now this affects not just the US, Huawei and China, but the whole fucking world. Huawei has phones better than Samsung and Apple. And FYI, I have yet to see proof that the Chinese government is spying on us through Huawei phones. However, there is plenty of proof that NSA is spying through Apple at the very least.
We'll see what EU has something about this, it might just be able to make Google give back the license to make Android phones again.
Click to expand...

God forbid a phone company had to get off their asses and make some decent software bespoke for the devices they make...
 
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cambrian

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As another poster said...the reason China has gotten away with intellectual property all these years is Corporate America itself. They were complicit in their own destruction because they were too greedy and short sighted to see the long term damage of IP theft.
 
Nebell

Nebell

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lcpiper said:
Wow. Do you really think anyone is going to offer you proof?

That is not how the world works my friend. If the US and their allies do have proof, then they gained that proof through a source. They are not going to jeopardize that source by divulging "proof" to make you feel good about the deal. They aren't going to tell the little people because if the Chinese figure out what we know, and how we found out, then they'll plug that hole and it'll be harder to find out next time the Chinese think they'll slip something buy us.

In the mean time, as long as China doesn't know what we learned exactly, and how we learned it, they have to either suck it up and drive on, meaning the source potentially remains in place, or they have to change all kinds of stuff, processes, software, hardware, even people. A massively expensive proposition with no guarantees of success.

And the US isn't really claiming that the Chinese are spying on us through the phones, though they say it's possible. The US is claiming that China is either spying, or planning to spy on us through the Network Infrastructure that they sell to ISPs world wide. Those really big routers and switches, etc. It means to stop this the US is blocking the transfer of US tech to Chinese Companies, which HuaWei is one. Without that tech, HuaWei and the others will not be able to compete for long. It's a very big stick and I doubt the US would use it lightly. Too many US companies are reliant on this business.

So you might not think there is any proof. I see the action itself as proof enough. If you want to think it's just Trump off the rails that's up to you. I like to think that there is more to my country than just a President, and that the President we have isn't so shallow as to disrupt a great number of US businesses on a whim.

OH, and you don't really think that a HuaWei phone is all that much better than the rest of them?
Click to expand...

That's a whole lot of nonsense there.
If I had to choose between who's spying, NSA or China, I'd rather have China as they are not as paranoid as the US which has reach into EU.

Also, bans like this need to be regional. If Google has to ban Huawei because the US says so, it should be US only.
The US is not the whole world. I can understand that China has become arrogant, but what Trump is doing is causing all kind of problems not for China but the whole world.

This will have big consequences on the US as well especially since Huawei is buying products worth $50bil+ from the US. Not to mention pissing off some very powerful allies in the west.
This whole trade war has its reason and I also think there should be action against China because they block a lot of western infuence. But not like this. This is extreme and it's going to backfire on the US and we'll see in the end if it's gonna be worth it.
I can guarantee you one thing. You and me as customers are going to get the short stick. Shit, we're already getting it because P30 Pro is the best phone you can buy right now. It's better than Samsung and it's better than Apple.

Also, there has been an update to the development as expected. First a big scare and basically making all future Huawei phones into expensive bricks and door holders, then "hey we're gonna ease on and lift the ban temprorarily until mid August and let's see if you behave".
It's basically just a showoff what you can do to make someone compliant. We'll see in a few months how Huawei will adapt.
 
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