Germans Were Paid to Use Electricity This Holiday Season

Megalith

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Thanks to greener sources of energy that include wind and solar, power prices in Germany are going negative at times, allowing consumers to profit by using power from the grid. This benefit emerged again over Christmas, as idle offices and weather suitable to wind power drove prices below zero.

In one recent example, power prices spent 31 hours below zero during the last weekend of October. At one point, they dipped as low as minus $98, per megawatt-hour, a wholesale measure. In other words, anyone who was able to hook up for a large blast of electricity at that time was paid $98 per unit for the trouble.
 
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Germany: *looks at California*
mqdefault.jpg
 

Meeho

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I wonder what they pay when they don't have a surplus of energy...
One of the highest prices, if not the highest, in EU. Without accounting for the $200 billion they've spent on "green" power. So, what Germany has is one of the most expensive and unstable power productions. Another nice "benefit" of closing down nuclear and going "green".
 
D

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Nope.

They import lots of power due to the fact this is not on demand, and these power usages that make headlines are for a few days out of the year where power draw is low and sun/wind are high. Lots of their power comes from burning of wood and paper, which is not green at all, but labeled as such, because it is listed as "biomass power".

Prices on power for them have also gone up, which results in many people using less power as well.
 

naib

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What the media doesn't state is this year due to cloudy weather & v.low wind the electrical productions was obnoxiously low and germany had to import alot from france, nuclear-derived electricity YET the politicians made a spin about being nuclear free.

I am all for green (my field of expertise is this area) but NOT when stupid green decisions are made to jeopardise the base generation need. BASE really should be nuclear (thorium salt) or geo-thermal. Then the wind and solar is there to compliment
 

Brian_B

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Negative wholesale power prices aren't a good thing.

Be certain the consumer isn't getting it for free.
 

erexx

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Germany's primary form of power production has always been coal. Since 2014 they have been moving away from it. Germany is a small country. Coal, Nuclear, Biomass and Renewables in that general order. Coal mining has been heavily subsidized for years and the mining is extremely hard and deadly. It only makes sense to move away from coal and start paying for power from outside the country. It also makes sense to move away from Nuclear as a small country for now because new plants maybe outdated before they are finished and nuclear fuel is problematic.
I think they are excited about their W7X experimental stellarator... and why not?
 
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Gasaraki_

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One of the highest prices, if not the highest, in EU. Without accounting for the $200 billion they've spent on "green" power. So, what Germany has is one of the most expensive and unstable power productions. Another nice "benefit" of closing down nuclear and going "green".

Sources please.
 

PaulP

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This is one of the big problems with solar and wind - they are not dispatchable.
 

Ski

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wow they're really blowing up over there

I just came back from a two week trip from there earlier this spring, and it was shocking how much more progressive they are than our country. Everything from the culture to the socio-economics, they're really an extraordinary people. Hell, their English was better than the booty chatta I'm used to back home, it was embarrassing almost.
 

naib

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I just came back from a two week trip from there earlier this spring, and it was shocking how much more progressive they are than our country. Everything from the culture to the socio-economics, they're really an extraordinary people. Hell, their English was better than the booty chatta I'm used to back home, it was embarrassing almost.
True, but they are taxed through the teeth. All this progressive and social care is not free and there are a million "migrants" now wanting a slice
 

BB Gun

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Nobody actually reads articles, do they? (I'm looking at you, megalith, for that shit byline.....)

Note that...

"The wholesale costs of power make up only about a fifth of the average household electricity bill in Germany. The rest is a stew of taxes, fees to finance renewable-energy investments, and charges for use of the grid."

So they pay out the ass to generate the tax revenue to pay for the inefficient moneylosing power sources that stress the grid and once in a while they get a small bit of relief.

THANK YOU SIR! MAY I HAVE ANOTHER?
 
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hmz

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I just came back from a two week trip from there earlier this spring, and it was shocking how much more progressive they are than our country. Everything from the culture to the socio-economics, they're really an extraordinary people. Hell, their English was better than the booty chatta I'm used to back home, it was embarrassing almost.

Yeah. I travel to Germany twice a year. The culture, the advanced tech, high speed trains, autobahns, infrastructure, people, you name it. The feeling after landing to Chicago is like landing to a underdeveloped continent.
 

Zuul

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I like "green" power...but at the same time nuclear power plants might be the best option. The "waste" product could be used in the future for new power generation...but the fuck do I know.
The ARECA powerplant being constructed in Finland right now is over budget by a huge margin...don't know the specs but by memory it's called Olkiluoto 3?
And of course it's a French contractor that is causing delays and shitfucks..... lazy fucking EU cunts

edit: point being, Germans are great and all, but wind, solar and wave energy is so unpredictable it's ridiculous
edit 2 : The radiation that everyone is so scared of is a lie... you can walk around in Pripyat right now and you don't even get more radiation damage than you would get flying in a fucking airplane to Thailand

edit 3 : It's AREVA and Siemens

Customer: Teollisuuden Voima Oyj (TVO).

Supplier: Consortium formed by AREVA NP and Siemens AG (73%/27%), led by AREVA NP.

Supply scope: 1 EPR™ unit in turnkey construction.

Net electric output: 1,600 MWe.

Reactor thermal output: 4,300 MW.

Signature date: December 18, 2003.

Annual power generation: 13 TWh.

for 6 million ppl that's a pretty good deal power wise, not counting the over budget cunt french
 
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Ski

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Yeah. I travel to Germany twice a year. The culture, the advanced tech, high speed trains, autobahns, infrastructure, people, you name it. The feeling after landing to Chicago is like landing to a underdeveloped continent.

The icing on the cake for me was how fit and thin everyone was, not to mention enormously tall. And the German women..... jesus christ!
 

LigTasm

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Yeah. I travel to Germany twice a year. The culture, the advanced tech, high speed trains, autobahns, infrastructure, people, you name it. The feeling after landing to Chicago is like landing to a underdeveloped continent.

Its amazing what a homogenous culture can create, just look at Japan. Too bad Germany will be part of the EU Caliphate in a few more years, I don't think you'll be allowed to visit then.
 
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M76

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Yeah. I travel to Germany twice a year. The culture, the advanced tech, high speed trains, autobahns, infrastructure, people, you name it. The feeling after landing to Chicago is like landing to a underdeveloped continent.
Actually germany is one of the worse places in western europe. And I said this even before the migrant crisis became an issue. I'd prefer almost any other country over it.

True, but they are taxed through the teeth. All this progressive and social care is not free and there are a million "migrants" now wanting a slice
You can't have it both ways. To have high standards of public services, you need high taxes. Of course migrants want a slice, because it's better there. Otherwise they wouldn't go there.
 

naib

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You can't have it both ways. To have high standards of public services, you need high taxes. Of course migrants want a slice, because it's better there. Otherwise they wouldn't go there.
obviously... the real question is should they be providing as much as the powers that be think they should. The powers that be have already shown they are irresponsible... they opened the door to 1million migrants and via the EU forced other countries to take "their fair share" so much so that the eastern european countries are being taken to court... Germany didn't ask for an EU concensus, they made the decision on behalf of everyone and forced the issue on everyone... its ruined sweden, ruined other countries ...

the elite are not that great, the Coudenhove-Kalergi plan is not a good plan (and guess who has "won" the Kalergi award...)
 

M76

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obviously... the real question is should they be providing as much as the powers that be think they should. The powers that be have already shown they are irresponsible... they opened the door to 1million migrants and via the EU forced other countries to take "their fair share" so much so that the eastern european countries are being taken to court... Germany didn't ask for an EU concensus, they made the decision on behalf of everyone and forced the issue on everyone... its ruined sweden, ruined other countries ...

the elite are not that great, the Coudenhove-Kalergi plan is not a good plan (and guess who has "won" the Kalergi award...)
TBH Sweden was ruined long before Merkel invited in the economic migrants. The problem with the "Migrant Quotas" is just a political tussle as the migrants obviously don't want to stay in poorer EU countries anyway, they have nothing to gain there. So it's one thing to force the hand of those countries to allow in x thousand migrants, but then you somehow have to convince those migrants to stay in the country, where their best case scenario is to work for $500 / month. Good luck with that. I think they had it better in Syria before the war.
 
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anr11

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You are grossly misinformed. EU immigration laws and asylum policy were already well established and something that all member countries signed up for when they decided to join the EU. Germany pushed for enforcement of these laws because refugees were being denied entry by some other member countries and placed directly onto trains bound for Germany. One EU member country cannot make a decision and force it on other members. I assume you consider Sweden to be "ruined" because it has a large migrant population. That was already the case before the refugee crisis arose. Sweden has long had a very open immigration policy initially implemented to increase their population at a time when the country was underpopulated.
 

Zuul

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TBH Sweden was ruined long before Merkel invited in the economic migrants. The problem with the "Migrant Quotas" is just a political tussle as the migrants obviously don't want to stay in poorer EU countries anyway, they have nothing to gain there. So it's one thing to force the hand of those countries to allow in x thousand migrants, but then you somehow have to convince those migrants to stay in the country, where your best case scenario is to work for $500 / month. Good luck with that. I think they had it better in Syria before the war.
I've said this a thousand times because I actually live in the kalifat. And because I was born in Finland I almost always get the question "but during ww2 there were thousands of children shipped of to Sweden ... would you prefer that they would stay in Finland and get slaughtered?" Well fuck you, we didn't send our boys to Afghanistan did we? 99/100 immigrants coming to Sweden are fucking economic refugees lying about everything just to get their whole clan to get here once they get to stay. All this is Fredrik Reinfeldts fault as he started with his fucking "open your hearts" bullshit just before he was forced to resign
 

M76

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You are grossly misinformed. EU immigration laws and asylum policy were already well established and something that all member countries signed up for when they decided to join the EU. Germany pushed for enforcement of these laws because refugees were being denied entry by some other member countries and placed directly onto trains bound for Germany. One EU member country cannot make a decision and force it on other members.
Are you talking to me? Then why aren't you quoting? The immigration laws and asylum policies were not set up for millions of economic migrants, it was meant only for real political asylum seekers. It is completely irrelevant that it can be stretched and applied to the droves of greedy and lazy migrants now emerging in hopes of free welfare. They'd never have come, if germany didn't invite them in. And now that they can no longer deal with them, they want to smear their shit all over us. I say fuck them, regardless of what applicable eu laws say. They shit the bed, they clean it up, and they shouldn't drag countries with much smaller and weaker economies into it.

I assume you consider Sweden to be "ruined" because it has a large migrant population. That was already the case before the refugee crisis arose. Sweden has long had a very open immigration policy initially implemented to increase their population at a time when the country was underpopulated.
What are you arguing here? because that's exactly what I said, that it was overrun by an alien culture who refuses to integrate, before the migrant crisis was sparked by germany. And yes I say ruined, because sweden is loosing it's culture, and some places are now literally unsafe there for non-muslims because of the muslim gangs. And yes, I'm not pulling that out of thin air, I've spoken to a few people who live there. And they said this years ago, not just now.
 

anr11

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Are you talking to me? Then why aren't you quoting? The immigration laws and asylum policies were not set up for millions of economic migrants, it was meant only for real political asylum seekers. It is completely irrelevant that it can be stretched and applied to the droves of greedy and lazy migrants now emerging in hopes of free welfare. They'd never have come, if germany didn't invite them in. And now that they can no longer deal with them, they want to smear their shit all over us. I say fuck them, regardless of what applicable eu laws say. They shit the bed, they clean it up, and they shouldn't drag countries with much smaller and weaker economies into it.


What are you arguing here? because that's exactly what I said, that it was overrun by an alien culture who refuses to integrate, before the migrant crisis was sparked by germany. And yes I say ruined, because sweden is loosing it's culture, and some places are now literally unsafe there for non-muslims because of the muslim gangs. And yes, I'm not pulling that out of thin air, I've spoken to a few people who live there. And they said this years ago, not just now.

Sorry, quote didn't take on the previous post. My reply was intended for naib.
 

Shintai

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One of the highest prices, if not the highest, in EU. Without accounting for the $200 billion they've spent on "green" power. So, what Germany has is one of the most expensive and unstable power productions. Another nice "benefit" of closing down nuclear and going "green".

You have a misunderstanding of cost and taxes to lower consumption.
http://driftsdata.statnett.no/Web/map/snpscustom

Nuclear is the most expensive energy form besides biomass. I like nuclear, but it doesn't make it cheap.
https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/assumptions/pdf/table_8.2.pdf
 
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Shintai

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Negative wholesale power prices aren't a good thing.

Be certain the consumer isn't getting it for free.

A good example is perhaps that we pay around 2.40DKK or so per Kw/h. Yet the power generation cost in the bill is around 0.30DKK with VAT.

Example of a bill on the power company website.
Elregning-enkelte-poster.ashx


Flexpris=Power generation
Moms=VAT
-----
Nettarif B=Some distribution cost
PSO-tarif=Some tax
Systemtarif=Some distribution cost
Transmissions nettarif=Some distribution cost
Elafgift=Some tax
Moms=VAT

In this case, 1.95DKK before VAT and of that 0.23DKK is power generation. ~25% wind.

And wind isn´t subsidized anymore.
 
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SvenBent

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A good example is perhaps that we pay around 2.40DKK or so per Kw/h. Yet the power generation cost in the bill is around 0.30DKK with VAT.

Example of a bill on the power company website.

Flexpris=Power generation
Moms=VAT
-----
Nettarif B=Some distribution cost
PSO-tarif=Some tax
Systemtarif=Some distribution cost
Transmissions nettarif=Some distribution cost
Elafgift=Some tax
Moms=VAT

In this case, 1.95DKK before VAT and of that 0.23DKK is power generation. ~25% wind.

And wind isn´t subsidized anymore.


That's one ugly language
 
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