Feren OS game changer

[heatlesssun]

Post shit about Linux though and I will pull you up, and you post a lot of misinformed garbage about Linux.

Fine. There's plenty though you say about Windows that many people don't necessarily think is the gospel. And blasting people using Linux under scenarios even you've never does is pretty funny.

 

[BulletDust]

Fine. There's plenty though you say about Windows that many people don't necessarily think is the gospel. And blasting people using Linux under scenarios even you've never does is pretty funny.

Who am I blasting? If you're whining about your own situation, I wasn't prepared to help you due to your attitude. As stated before, the outcome would have been no different if we were talking about the sky with an attitude like yours.

 

[heatlesssun]

Who am I blasting? If you're whining about your own situation, I wasn't prepared to help you due to your attitude. As stated before, the outcome would have been no different if we were talking about the sky with an attitude like yours.

I was trying something out. You've started several Linux Steam VR threads around here. Whatever you want to call the state of it, development, beta, there's a LONG way to go with it before it begins to approach what's been available on Windows for over a year now. Even Phronix has made the same point, a site that you and other pro-desktop Linux folks reference constantly. A lot of what I've said mirrors what Michael Larabel has said. So I do get a laugh out you blasting me when I'm pretty much in agreement with well known Linux guru like Michael Larabel.

 

[BulletDust]

I was trying something out. You've started several Linux Steam VR threads around here. Whatever you want to call the state of it, development, beta, there's a LONG way to go with it before it begins to approach what's been available on Windows for over a year now. Even Phronix has made the same point, a site that you and other pro-desktop Linux folks reference constantly. A lot of what I've said mirrors what Michael Larabel has said. So I do get a laugh out you blasting me when I'm pretty much in agreement with well known Linux guru like Michael Larabel.

Actually, in discussion the author of the original Phronix VR article claimed that a number of issues he experienced were entirely his fault. Furthermore, development is ongoing and SteamVR under Linux is improving all the time - Not that it matters as the technology is so far in it's infancy on both platforms with no real market that it's not a point worth discussing anyway.

Fact is, VR is supported under Linux, which was the argument all along.

If you want help, change your poor attitude.

 

[heatlesssun]

Actually, in discussion the author of the original Phronix VR article claimed that a number of issues he experienced were entirely his fault.

I went back and reread that original blog and he didn't say that. He did go back and use Ubuntu 16.04 LTS back from 16.10. But you simply cannot miss how critical he was of the install process, even accounting for it being beta. The title of that blog was clearly indicating the iffy state of things.

Furthermore, development is ongoing and SteamVR under Linux is improving all the time - Not that it matters as the technology is so far in it's infancy on both platforms with no real market that it's not a point worth discussing anyway.

Sure it's the beginning but it's hardly in its infancy under Windows. Sure there's a lot of junk but there's now over 1000 Windows VR titles with decent stuff coming on a pretty regular basis.

Fact is, VR is supported under Linux, which was the argument all along.

First of all, you and others have pointed out that Linux Steam VR is still beta and people should expect problems. So that's not exactly what I would call supported from a end user standpoint. Furthermore there's so little VR content out there for Linux. This is what I mean about desktop Linux getting oversold. Supported, technically at a pre-production stage. But practically speaking, not really. That's a more than fair assessment of where it is currently but sure it's improved and will get better. So has VR under Windows. Windows obviously gets the beta stuff as well and I'm running the new Steam VR Home which I believe you started a thread about a while ago.

If you want help, change your poor attitude.

LOL! There's are resources available that are somewhat more rational about this stuff that have been helpful without me changing whatever attitude you think I have.

 

[rudy]

Said it before I will say it again, Linux just needs to get behind and back ONE distro, fragmentation is their biggest problem. You know how most people learn? They don't do it by the ways people are H would think, they ask someone they know how to do something. If no one around you knows Linux or how it works you cant get that type of help. If the one guy you know uses mint and you installed Ubuntu they may not be able to help. Linux needs traction even if its just a temporary move. Lets say all Linux programmers decide to all back Ubuntu and put a 5 year moratorium on helping any other project. Then all the wasted talent going to program for distro x or y can go into making killer apps and making drivers and other stuff work better.

 

[BulletDust]

Said it before I will say it again, Linux just needs to get behind and back ONE distro, fragmentation is their biggest problem. You know how most people learn? They don't do it by the ways people are H would think, they ask someone they know how to do something. If no one around you knows Linux or how it works you cant get that type of help. If the one guy you know uses mint and you installed Ubuntu they may not be able to help. Linux needs traction even if its just a temporary move. Lets say all Linux programmers decide to all back Ubuntu and put a 5 year moratorium on helping any other project. Then all the wasted talent going to program for distro x or y can go into making killer apps and making drivers and other stuff work better.

This is not what Linux needs at all.

One of the issues with Windows 10 ATM is the UI, it pisses people off and they can't get away from it - It's like going to McDonalds and only having Cheese burgers on the menu. Linux's strength lies with the fact that there's a UI for everyone, the fact that there is no universal distro by no means makes the OS harder to use as you don't use them all at once and newer packaging methods are taking care of fragmentation. All that matters is that you choose the best distro for your needs.

There is no way you can lock down an open source platform to one distro when people are free to fork code as they see fit - Linux is pretty much an OS by the people for the people.

If you're lost, there was a time you were lost under Windows also, but you worked it all out in good time. Help is available provided you maintain the right attitude.

 

[rudy]

This is not what Linux needs at all.

One of the issues with Windows 10 ATM is the UI, it pisses people off and they can't get away from it - It's like going to McDonalds and only having Cheese burgers on the menu. Linux's strength lies with the fact that there's a UI for everyone, the fact that there is no universal distro by no means makes the OS harder to use as you don't use them all at once and newer packaging methods are taking care of fragmentation. All that matters is that you choose the best distro for your needs.

There is no way you can lock down an open source platform to one distro when people are free to fork code as they see fit - Linux is pretty much an OS by the people for the people.

If you're lost, there was a time you were lost under Windows also, but you worked it all out in good time. Help is available provided you maintain the right attitude.

Well that's funny because even though there is all that complaining there were probably more windows 10 machines running on launch day then the highest desktop penetration Linux has had in its entire existence. And despite all the complaining people are not fleeing to Linux.

As with all things in Linux this has to be voluntary but with attitudes like yours it will never happen, you may see old posts of mine where I point out that the attitude of Linux proponents is one of its biggest hurdles. Here look at it this way for decades Linux has been trying to make every year the year of Linux and it never happens so would it really hurt to try something different? I mean really different as in give up on the millions of forks. Actually compromise rather than everyone just saying distro x or y didn't make what I want fork!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not lost in Linux there is just not one single reason that I care about to use it. If you are smart enough to learn how to use and work Linux you are also smart enough to solve your problems in Windows and you can get it all done with less work given the wider software library and support available. I am giving my advice as someone who would like to see a competitor to MS that is more open rather than less open like apple be viable. Linux still isn't that competitor for a ton of reasons. Some are not easily solvable others are. IMO this is one area where Linux could easily make huge gains. And BTW McDonalds and very many successful enterprises have a reduced menu on purpose.

 

[BulletDust]

Well that's funny because even though there is all that complaining there were probably more windows 10 machines running on launch day then the highest desktop penetration Linux has had in its entire existence. And despite all the complaining people are not fleeing to Linux.

Um, Windows 10 was a forced install, MS had to give it away....

...Are you serious? Linux doesn't have a marketing department, in case you weren't aware.

And Linux awareness and adoption is rising, the year of the Linux desktop is a bullshit term made up by Windows shills - Fact is Linux is a matured and capable OS, the year of the Linux desktop is whenever you're willing to do away with the issues surrounding Windows 10 based on usage case.

Linux does not need to be limited to one distro like Windows, there is no prerequisite for everything to be a Windows clone.

 

[rudy]

Those are all great excuses, but in the real world no one cares about excuses, Linux proponents live by their excuses which is why Linux goes nowhere. The irony of a proponent of a free OS complaining about another OS being free.....

I am not asking for it to be a windows clone I am simply pointing out a major flaw that Linux has, that for whatever reason Linux proponents think is a strength. They can pick any desktop environment they want but have 50 environments, it is pretty hard for consumers to get traction on one.

 

[BulletDust]

Those are all great excuses, but in the real world no one cares about excuses, Linux proponents live by their excuses which is why Linux goes nowhere. The irony of a proponent of a free OS complaining about another OS being free.....

I am not asking for it to be a windows clone I am simply pointing out a major flaw that Linux has, that for whatever reason Linux proponents think is a strength. They can pick any desktop environment they want but have 50 environments, it is pretty hard for consumers to get traction on one.

Excuses are when an individual claims that Facebook and Google are harvesting my data so I may as well let Microsoft do the same!

I'm not posting excuses, I'm posting facts. The fact is MS gave Windows 10 away and adoption is disappointing as a result and Linux has no marketing department. You can't argue with facts.

 

[rudy]

OK Fact, Linux desktop has less than 3% market share which is less than windows 8.1. Brilliant Linux proponent find a solution to increase market share. preferably not a dead horse proposition they have been trying over and over for 10 years. Note I did not say come up with an excuse for why the market share is so small like oh we don't have a marketing department. Either A accept that and work on other solutions or B find a solution that gives Linux a marketing department. You are the proponent not me, and I am working harder on solutions than you lol. I couldn't care less, I have no bias for or against Linux I simply use what works best, a consumer like me is the exact type of consumer you should be trying to win. I will move to a new OS if the advantages are there.

 

[Frobozz]

So... I guess you guys aren't going to try out Feren?

 

[BulletDust]

OK Fact, Linux desktop has less than 3% market share which is less than windows 8.1. Brilliant Linux proponent find a solution to increase market share. preferably not a dead horse proposition they have been trying over and over for 10 years. Note I did not say come up with an excuse for why the market share is so small like oh we don't have a marketing department. Either A accept that and work on other solutions or B find a solution that gives Linux a marketing department. You are the proponent not me, and I am working harder on solutions than you lol. I couldn't care less, I have no bias for or against Linux I simply use what works best, a consumer like me is the exact type of consumer you should be trying to win. I will move to a new OS if the advantages are there.

3% of users that we can measure as Linux is not sold in retail channels is an increase of 200% in about the last 10 years, I fail to see how that's a bad thing when Linux is not force installed on every OEM brand name laptop and PC sold.

As Frobozz said, it's obvious you aren't interested in Feren so why post here regarding the usage statistics of Windows 10 of all things!

 

[Chuklr]

3% of users that we can measure as Linux is not sold in retail channels is an increase of 200% in about the last 10 years, I fail to see how that's a bad thing when Linux is not force installed on every OEM brand name laptop and PC sold.

As Frobozz said, it's obvious you aren't interested in Feren so why post here regarding the usage statistics of Windows 10 of all things!

This is page 5 and I just went back to page 1 to refresh my memory. The Windows talk started with Post #2 and continue from there. So one could argue that you started the off topic discussion.

I posted about the new Feren release on May 1 and it can be found in the Linux sub-forum. I had mis-posted it in this forum and Tiberian is the only individual to post in it besides me and he just wanted to know if the thread shouldn't be moved to the Linux sub-forum. I posted back that I had already requested that it be moved. There are no other posts in that thread.

Just some random thoughts. Carry on.

 

[rudy]

3% of users that we can measure as Linux is not sold in retail channels is an increase of 200% in about the last 10 years, I fail to see how that's a bad thing when Linux is not force installed on every OEM brand name laptop and PC sold.

As Frobozz said, it's obvious you aren't interested in Feren so why post here regarding the usage statistics of Windows 10 of all things!

Because Feren is a representative of the problem with Linux, just what they need another distro!

My data is based on net applications which is representative of what people are using, you are just making up stuff now. Linux has had a very low stagnant user base for as long as I have been on hardforum hovering around 2% there has been no 200% increase in the last 10 years. In 2007 Linux had 2% market share, today Linux has 2% market share and that is all that has happened in 10 years. You might be confusing Linux with OSX.

 

[BulletDust]

Because Feren is a representative of the problem with Linux, just what they need another distro!

My data is based on net applications which is representative of what people are using, you are just making up stuff now. Linux has had a very low stagnant user base for as long as I have been on hardforum hovering around 2% there has been no 200% increase in the last 10 years. In 2007 Linux had 2% market share, today Linux has 2% market share and that is all that has happened in 10 years. You might be confusing Linux with OSX.

10 years with a major push towards Linux in ~the last 4 years with an increase of 100% that we know of since the major push towards Linux and Microsoft's run of bad decisions. Ultimately, we don't know much in relation to Linux usage statistics at all as Linux isn't sold via deadly accurate retail channels like other operating systems.

Get is right if you're going to form an argument, as on the 5th of April 2004 when you joined [H] it can be safely assumed based on later figures as data doesn't go back that far that Linux usage was hovering at below 1%. I'm not making up squat - You were the one that mentioned 3%, I just rolled with your random figure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_adoption

Funny thing is, I think Feren is a waste of time, I believe that if you want to switch to Linux leave every bit of Windows familiarisation at the door.

Doesn't change the fact that the undisputable strength of Linux is the fact that it's not locked down to a heavily controlled ecosystem - If you prefer control, please, by all means feel free to stick to Windows.

 

[BulletDust]

This is page 5 and I just went back to page 1 to refresh my memory. The Windows talk started with Post #2 and continue from there. So one could argue that you started the off topic discussion.

I posted about the new Feren release on May 1 and it can be found in the Linux sub-forum. I had mis-posted it in this forum and Tiberian is the only individual to post in it besides me and he just wanted to know if the thread shouldn't be moved to the Linux sub-forum. I posted back that I had already requested that it be moved. There are no other posts in that thread.

Just some random thoughts. Carry on.

This thread was trolled by Windows users on page 1, it degraded from there. Feel free to add me to your block list if my posts go against your better judgement.

 

[Vermillion]

Because Feren is a representative of the problem with Linux, just what they need another distro!

Except another distro is not the problem. If a few people want to do their own distro that doesn't muddy the waters on anything. A distro like Feren will either die quickly or just be a teeny tiny niche distro. One of the great strengths of Linux is the fact that people can do what they want and put together a system that works just for them.

What I don't like about a lot of distros (Feren is included here) is that they aren't doing anything special. Some are forked just to fork them. In Feren's case it's a fork of a fork of a fork which honestly is unnecessary. They took Mint and changed the theme and added a few things on the default install (WINE and WPS Office for example). So I don't understand what they're trying to do here. You can take Ubuntu or Mint and make it Feren by installing a few packages.

Even Linux Mint you have to question why it was even created originally. It is a fork of a fork. The reasoning behind Mint from it's creator was "bring elegance to Ubuntu". So basically he didn't like the theme. I think what shot Mint into the stratosphere though was Ubuntu's decision to move to Unity. So whatever. Mint is a very successful fork of a fork.

Now look at Arch. The reason it was forked was for ease of installation in order to bring it more mainstream. Arch itself isn't hard to install but there is a lot to it and that is a turn off to people who are so used to point and click installers. So Manjaro and Antergos (and some other lesser known forks) have a reason for being.

Let's move to the other side of the coin now. Something that isn't a fork of anything: Solus. Built from the ground up. Does it's own thing. It's a very nice distro. Founder, Ikey Doherty, created his own Desktop Environment as well because he didn't care for the ones out there. He wanted something modern and easy to use so Budgie was born.

Budgie has been ported to many distros as a consequence. That's a good thing. That's the beauty and power of Linux. New distros aren't the problem. The reason behind the need for creating a new distro is the problem.

 

[Chuklr]

... Ubuntu's decision to move to Unity...

Let's move to the other side of the coin now. Something that isn't a fork of anything: Solus. Built from the ground up. Does it's own thing. It's a very nice distro. ...

For folks who like Unity they may be interested in the distrowatch.com news article concerning the Unity 8 fork by the Yunity team for Debian Unstable. According to the article they plan to back port it to Ubuntu 16.04LTS.

I have been running Solus with the Mate DE for a month or so and it is smooth running.

 

[MrCrispy]

There are 2 kinds of Linux users -

1. Experts who know all about the distros, the hierarchy, all the obscure commands, ppas, repos etc, who will explain to you why different distros/DEs need to exist, why standardization is bad etc.
2. Normal users who just want a working pc and couldn't care less about any of the above

People in group #2 will usually have to move towards #1 if they need to be productive and fix issues. Making fun of Windows for not offering a choice of 23 different window managers/decorations isn't really productive because no one really cares, all they want is for the OS to actually work and be stable.

Linux is a great OS. For desktop use it needs some kind of standardization effort where you have a base system (like HAL) which has consistent support across distros, but this kind of thing isn't possible with the way its architected, there are no binary api standards (ABIs). If there were, all the other fluff like the DE, WM, Qt/Gtk could be built on top without having to worry about breaking stuff and reinventing the wheel.

 

[BulletDust]

There are 2 kinds of Linux users -

1. Experts who know all about the distros, the hierarchy, all the obscure commands, ppas, repos etc, who will explain to you why different distros/DEs need to exist, why standardization is bad etc.
2. Normal users who just want a working pc and couldn't care less about any of the above

People in group #2 will usually have to move towards #1 if they need to be productive and fix issues. Making fun of Windows for not offering a choice of 23 different window managers/decorations isn't really productive because no one really cares, all they want is for the OS to actually work and be stable.

Linux is a great OS. For desktop use it needs some kind of standardization effort where you have a base system (like HAL) which has consistent support across distros, but this kind of thing isn't possible with the way its architected, there are no binary api standards (ABIs). If there were, all the other fluff like the DE, WM, Qt/Gtk could be built on top without having to worry about breaking stuff and reinventing the wheel.

Who's making fun of Windows? I'm saying that the strength of Linux is the fact that it's not locked down to one UI, one distro - You couldn't, and I wouldn't want it any other way. Linux is open source, people can fork until their hearts content, doesn't mean you have to use the fork. Furthermore, a locked down ecosystem does undeniably come with it's own set of issues, many of which are now being realised with the advent of Windows 10.

No, the problem here is people are approaching Linux as an alternative with the expectation that it's a Windows clone, it is not and distro's like the one in the OP don't help this situation IMO.

There was a time where all I knew was Windows. I switched to Linux and used it because it just worked, obviously if it didn't just work I wouldn't have stuck with it as I had no idea how to fix it - All operating systems have issues, Windows is no golden child in this regard.

 

[ChadD]

Linux doesn't need more "standardization" what ever the F that is supposed to mean.

Linux is the most standards compliant Operating System ever devised.

Standards are the only bloody thing that allow for an OS that can be built out of 1000s of different parts still work with all the other versions that are built out of different parts.

- Linux has a standard file system hierarchy.
- Linux programs are written to use 2 main standard GUI toolkits GTK and QT.
- The x.org is a standard as is the wayland display protocol.
- The Linux kernel is the heart of every "linux" system and is unchanged from distro to distro. 4.12 is 4.12 it doesn't matter what distro your running.
- Daemons like Pulse Audio, Cups, ALSA ect are universal. I don't care what distro you have if Pulse Audio is setup its pulse audio >.< If you load a game in steam and it expects to talk to Pulse audio, it doesn't matter if your distro is arch or ubuntu or gentoo... pulse is pulse.
- Universal STANDARD commands, Linux commands are universal. A combination of shared basics and basic GNU tools. LS CP MV MAKE these are universal standards. The shell is the shell is the shell. Again Ubuntu fedora whatever terminal is the terminal.
- Linux boot loader is a standard... their are forks but they are all based on standards. Grub is the standard unchanged piece of code in 99 out of 100 distros
- The DE... people may complain for some crazy reason that Linux has DE options instead of one forced same same UI for all. This is not a weakness and not nearly as confusing as people make out. Their are TWO, yes 2 Linux mainline DE. Gnome and KDE. That is IT. Everything else is forked code... and many of them are fantastic. Still if you wan't to pretend great forks like Mate don't exist go right ahead.
- Software is universal as it conforms to standards. You can install any Linux software and run it on any DE you like... yes if software is written using the QT framework used by KDE, to run it on a Gnome DE you will need the QT framework libraries. Same is true in reverse with the GTK framework being required for some software in the QT based KDE. Still IT ALL RUNS back and forth thanks to the Standardization of Linux
- Vulkan OpenGL... I don't care what distro you are running programs using these libraries use these libraries. Whats more unlike say windows where DirectX 12 is Win10 only... programs that use say OpenGL 3.4 code will almost always work on older hardware defaulting to older slower routines. No forced X or Y distro or upgrade to support Vulkan... if your hardware supports it so will the software.

So bottom line all the talk all the time about their needing to be one Linux standard is... silly to say the least. The DE is just software.... the only difference between Ubuntu... Fedora... Suse and any other Distro is the choice of software packages installed and default setting options. Some larger commercial distros crate their own tools and software... but it all runs on the same standard system.

The only thing keeping large scale Linux desktop installs from happening is OEM support. Ubuntu is the only company really even courting that market frankly. The people at Red Hat and Suse and any other large Linux vendor could care less if HP, Dell, ASUS or any other large OEM ever ships a mass market Linux machine. What keeps Linux a niche OS is that it isn't sold to the masses >.< It 100% sure isn't standard issues, MS has to always build backwards compatability into windows as MS is terrible at conforming to their own standards. (and it seems incapable of writing standards that are forward looking)

 

[MrCrispy]

Linux lacks kernel level API/ABI which would allow drivers and other important subsystems to run across all distros and eliminate nearly all causes of stuff breaking. Many people have talked about this and its a well known issue. All the stuff you mention is user land. GNU utils are all in user, so is X, GUI toolkits etc.

Almost every other OS has a stable API/ABI. Linux doesn't want to do it by design - https://www.cyberciti.biz/files/linux-kernel/Documentation/stable_api_nonsense.txt

So instead you have hundreds of distros and thousands of patches that all have to ported up/downstream and users have to wait months before they are tested by someone and make sure things don't break or hunt around for other fixes. Instead of having a consistent API that anyone could program to and make sure it could be tested automatically and not break anything.

 

[MrCrispy]

Also suggest reading this - https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html

 

[ChadD]

Linux lacks kernel level API/ABI which would allow drivers and other important subsystems to run across all distros and eliminate nearly all causes of stuff breaking. Many people have talked about this and its a well known issue. All the stuff you mention is user land. GNU utils are all in user, so is X, GUI toolkits etc.

Almost every other OS has a stable API/ABI. Linux doesn't want to do it by design - https://www.cyberciti.biz/files/linux-kernel/Documentation/stable_api_nonsense.txt

So instead you have hundreds of distros and thousands of patches that all have to ported up/downstream and users have to wait months before they are tested by someone and make sure things don't break or hunt around for other fixes. Instead of having a consistent API that anyone could program to and make sure it could be tested automatically and not break anything.

Yes Linux doesn't have "drivers" for very good reason... and I agree with those reasons 100%.

The issue with PCs not having drivers for X or Y hardware right away is an acceptable trade off. It is also an issue that is disapearing with the popularity of Linux. Companies like Intel at this point are getting driver code into the kernels before hardware ships. 4.12 has code supporting I9 and the newer xeons that have yet to ship. That is not something that would have happened 5 years ago.

Its not a problem in any way for Linux OEMS.. Dell is not shipping Ubuntu running developer laptops without drivers. Yes some consumer level hardware still doesn't have support on launch day. However I know they will never ever fix it by making Linux a driver system that allows manufacturers to built 100s of closed source pain in the ass drivers that will lead to Linux system instability. Drivers and issues with them are the reason NO big iron runs windows server. Even MS runs Linux servers for their cloud services with good reason... allowing 1000s of mfgs to build drivers leads to a bug riddled steaming mess of an OS. I appreciate never having to see a blue screen pop up that says error in XXXXX.drv ect. If it means I have to be careful about purchasing say a WINDOWS designed laptop if I am planning to kill the OS it shipped with... so be it.

Linux is not a micro kernel no... it doesn't run third party drivers, and Linux people are thankful for that. If Linus and the Linux folk ever decided to go that route within a year the internet would run on Unix instead of Linux.... we don't need no stinking driver system thanks anyway.

If your old enough think aback to the days of Modems... a hardware modem was what you wanted, it was manufactured to a standard and worked perfect. Winmodems where cheap pieces of crap that would have your machine load a driver for so it could make your computer do the same work. No one really wanted crappy software winmodems. They where however cheap to make. Drivers are a BS way for manufacturers to skip building hardware to standards. It was true for winmodems back in the 90s it is true for a lot of the crappy wi-fi cards crammed in low end cheap win laptops today, that offload 99% of the work to you CPU and rely on a software driver to tell your CPU what to do. Its why proper hardware in the linux kernel has driver code that is often not more then a handful of lines... and code for allot of consumer grade junk have code that can often be 1000s of lines. Building Linux a "driver" framework for third parties will simply encourage that level of bad hardware design to become more common in the enterprise, which would be very bad for everyone imo.

 

[MrCrispy]

RHEL maintains kernel ABIs for exactly this reason - because it guarantees stability for their enterprise customers. They backport any changes in a compatible manner.

Drivers supplied by oem's are not the point. A stable kernel interface means I can compile something, make sure it runs on my local Linux install, and then ship it and guarantee it will run on every other Linux install as well. Vs having to list a million dependencies, glibc versions, toolkits etc to make sure it will compile and even then you can't be sure it will run and not break.

Servers run by companies are tightly controlled by IT - they test the images, the hw is known, you're not going to be installing random stuff and running sudo update and hope it works. It simply cannot be compared to home users. If you don't think that having a consistent stable interface is needed, that's why Linux is riddled with so many issues on the desktop - did you read the article I linked above?

 

[BulletDust]

Vs having to list a million dependencies, glibc versions, toolkits etc to make sure it will compile and even then you can't be sure it will run and not break.

You know Windows is more dependency hungry than Linux considering .api and .deb/.rpm?

What you're describing is totally due to the monolithic design of Linux and there is pro's and cons to both monolithic and hybrid kernels - But I have to say that personally, I've experienced more driver issues under Windows than Linux. Under Linux I plug stuff in and it works, perhaps I'm lucky, perhaps driver issues under Linux are assumed by many simply because of Linux 20 years ago?

Fact is, the only differences under Linux are package managers, of which there is really only two and there is more than one way to install software under Windows, and DE's. Both of which aren't really an issue in any way whatsoever and in the case of DE's come with the added benefit of fine tuning an OS to suit one's needs perfectly.

If you want your software application to have a level of standardisation across platforms with improved compatibility than Snap package it or distribute it as a Flatpack - At the end of the day the package/dependency issue under such a scenario is really no different to Windows where software ships with it's own set of dependencies.