EU Fines Qualcomm for Apple Collusion

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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The EU has slapped Qualcomm with a $1.2B fine for colluding with Apple in order to cut out chip competitors. EU Commissioner for Competition Margrethe Vestager said that Qualcomm paid "billions of dollars" to Apple. Some of this in the form of lowered prices and some through "rebates." She claims to have documentation showing Apple considering Intel products, but not until the end of the "rebate" Qualcomm agreement. Sadly, there is little documentation shared by Bloomberg.

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“This meant that no rival could effectively challenge Qualcomm in this market, no matter how good their products were," Vestager said. "We’re talking about one of the biggest and most important customers in this market."
 
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What's sad about this? These are not the only two companies doing this. The next time you buy something or your favorite product has a feature you really like. Consider that maybe the best man didn't get his part inside your new shiny thing whatever that might be.

Billion dollar fine sounds absolutely like a ton of money ... damn.
 
It has never been about using the "best" components unless you're talking about extremely high end boutique items like million dollar cars .. and even then. Finances win every time. As long as the product is "good enough" then price will win.
 
Company regulations are funny.

Because companies usually strike deals to get the best prices possible anyways.
 
Ididar said:
It has never been about using the "best" components unless you're talking about extremely high end boutique items like million dollar cars .. and even then. Finances win every time. As long as the product is "good enough" then price will win.
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You're right, it's always been about the "best backroom deal."
 
Riccochet said:
EU won't be happy until they drive every major corporation straight out of their shitty countries.
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Except that collusion is anti-competitive behavior that works against the free market. If -- and this is a big if -- they're guilty, then they absolutely should be held accountable, either in the EU or in the USA.
 
bugleyman said:
Except that collusion is anti-competitive behavior that works against the free market. If -- and this is a big if -- they're guilty, then they absolutely should be held accountable, either in the EU or in the USA.
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They aren't colluding. They made a business deal, a contract, for a set number of years. Business as usual. Every company does it. If Intel wanted the business, better product or not, they should have offered a better deal.

To be precise no business is obligated to solicit business from any other business. For all we know Apple could have looked at Intel's offer, laughed, threw it in the trash and continued their talks with Qualcomm. Or, Apple simply did not want to do business in the mobile market with Intel.

All business deals are "back room talks" until they are finalized and made public.
 
intel doesn't have any competing products in the mobile field. That's the first problem with this whole thing.
 
Riccochet said:
No, I couldn't care less what some fuck face EU politician has to say.
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So yes, you're closed minded and set in your ways. Well done sir, a model of American ingenuity and idealism!

The 'fuck face' you are referring to is Margrethe Vestager who is the head of the EU European Commissioner for Competition. I can assure you what she and her commission does affects you and she is in all ways far more important than you and me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margrethe_Vestager


Riccochet said:
They aren't colluding.
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You're so uninformed... Please do yourself a favor and learn some basic economics and how governments are involved.
 
Riccochet said:
No, I couldn't care less what some fuck face EU politician has to say.
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I second this, I'm 4 mins into the video and the woman keeps giving a slow speech full of feelings and things I don't care about, so I won't waste anymore of my time.
 
ymer said:
I second this, I'm 4 mins into the video and the woman keeps giving a slow speech full of feelings and things I don't care about, so I won't waste anymore of my time.
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The first 4 minutes gives you a premise from which the EU was formed and the founding principles. If you don't think this affects you you're gravely mistaken. You and I may be in the US (you may be elsewhere but nonetheless) what the EU decides does cross whatever artificial boundary you image is in the way be it ocean, national boundary, etc.
 
travisty said:
The first 4 minutes gives you a premise from which the EU was formed and the founding principles. If you don't think this affects you you're gravely mistaken. You and I may be in the US (you may be elsewhere but nonetheless) what the EU decides does cross whatever artificial boundary you image is in the way be it ocean, national boundary, etc.
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Ok I'm gravely mistaken because I do not agree with you.
 
travisty said:
So yes, you're closed minded and set in your ways. Well done sir, a model of American ingenuity and idealism!

The 'fuck face' you are referring to is Margrethe Vestager who is the head of the EU European Commissioner for Competition. I can assure you what she and her commission does affects you and she is in all ways far more important than you and me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margrethe_Vestager




You're so uninformed... Please do yourself a favor and learn some basic economics and how governments are involved.
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You're not going to find much EU sympathy around here. No one gives a shit about the EU. It's a corrupt system that countries are trying to escape from.

Good luck trying to convince anyone here otherwise.

My fuck face comment stands.
 
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Riccochet said:
You're not going to find much EU sympathy around here. No one gives a shit about the EU. It's a corrupt system that countries are trying to escape from.

Good luck trying to convince anyone here otherwise.

My fuck face comment stands.
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So your reply to the accusation that you're being close-minded is to explain just how close-minded you are? ;)
 
bugleyman said:
Except that collusion is anti-competitive behavior that works against the free market. If -- and this is a big if -- they're guilty, then they absolutely should be held accountable, either in the EU or in the USA.
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You don't understand. You're trying to communicate too complex a concept. Here's how the logic works:

EU = bad
enforcing illegal collusion laws = good
The EU is enforcing it = error. That would imply that it's not bad at everything in all ways at all times. Too complicated. Everything needs to be clearly defined as good or bad. Return to:
EU = bad

All done!
 
SparkedFire said:
Intel makes modems, which Apple does use.
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From the iPhone 7 release the intel modems were worse than qualcomms by quite a bit. I saw the benchmarks and made sure that I didnt buy a Tmobile or AT&T version to avoid it. Bought a Sim Free version straight from apple that has qualcomm modem. Not sure if Intel has done any better since.
 
When referencing collusion, "rebates" are usually exclusivity deals wherein company A offers rebates to company B as long as they do not use company C's product.

This is not okay, and it is anti-competitive. This creates an environment where company C cannot compete, regardless of product or price. Anti-competitive actions are bad for capitalism, so I don't understand why people are hopping on the "I see nothing wrong" bandwagon...
 
I'm not close minded. Collusion requires two parties. The EU not finding Apple of any wrong doing in this deal simply shows that the EU wanted a payday from a company that does not directly sell product in the EU. Hence, Qualcomm. Because, you know, all those EU folks want their iPhones.

And now they're going after Qualcomm again for selling their product at cut rate prices from 2009-2011. Isn't the whole point of capitalism "he who has the best product for the best price gets paid"?

Sounds like Intel fed the EU some bullshit, along with some "perks" to get a judgement against Qualcomm.

Exclusivity deals aren't anti-competitive. They have an expiration date. Intel was free and clear to try again with a better product at a better price once the current contract expired.
 
Riccochet said:
I'm not close minded. Collusion requires two parties. The EU not finding Apple of any wrong doing in this deal simply shows that the EU wanted a payday from a company that does not directly sell product in the EU. Hence, Qualcomm. Because, you know, all those EU folks want their iPhones.

And now they're going after Qualcomm again for selling their product at cut rate prices from 2009-2011. Isn't the whole point of capitalism "he who has the best product for the best price gets paid"?

Sounds like Intel fed the EU some bullshit, along with some "perks" to get a judgement against Qualcomm.

Exclusivity deals aren't anti-competitive. They have an expiration date. Intel was free and clear to try again with a better product at a better price once the current contract expired.
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Intel should know all about exclusivity deals. But I like the EU calling anti competitive lawsuits on american multinational corps. I think they see the companies as revenue generators while heavily protecting their own heavily subsidized tech and manufacturing companies. I am tired of the EU calling moral hazard on american multinationals while completely ignoring their own companies and claiming the moral and intellectual superiority.
 
ymer said:
Ok I'm gravely mistaken because I do not agree with you.
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In what sense? How/why the EU was formed or that the EU's decisions effect the US economy? If either, I do hope you open your eyes and it would appear as though you have missed that last... idk 50 years?
 
Not gonna dig too deep into this subject, I just can't get interested into this kind of subject matter so I won't waste my time, but anyone that thinks 1 billion euros means anything to something the size of the US or the European countries, and is being used to "plug holes" hasn't looked at what kind of amounts of money get pumped around in institutions like that.

"The annual EU budget is €145 bn (2015 figures) – a large sum in absolute terms, but only about 1% of the wealth generated by EU economies every year."
 
No shit. Welcome to standard Customer Purchase Agreements in the semiconductor industry.

Apple, as well as every company, says if a supplier wants to sell a new, custom device then that supplier can't sell it to anyone else for a set amount of time until the exclusivity period wears off. Move along, nothing to see here.
 
Riccochet said:
EU won't be happy until they drive every major corporation straight out of their shitty countries.
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I was reading an interview the other day with an ex-Apple (and ex-Alphabet) entrepreneur/investor who moved to Paris with the idea of importing Silicon Valley culture to the EU. This guy definitely has credentials but at the same time his enthusiasm really comes off to me (as an American and amateur historian) as incredibly naive. So many times in history have people tried to export culture - from Fordlandia to Disney's utopia to that recent "start-up" capitol out West that had a major spike in suicides - and simply failed. You can't just emulate something, throw money at it, and expect it to be the same thing. It lacks the essence. It may look like the real thing but it's not sustainable or successful.

The reason I mention this is because, outside of specific areas (e.g. the traditional democratic/republican bastions in Europe), the EU really is not friendly towards companies; they have insane taxes and they sue at the drop of the hat. Now I understand people are saying this is another round of anti-monopoly legislation, but if you actually read between the lines you can tell there's a very strong anti-American (and also anti-Chinese) sentiment among those who judge business in the EU and frankly they're killing their ability to adapt technologies to the modern world. Yes, they remain strong in science and academia, but the true life-blood of innovation is being squandered there because nobody wants to start or run a big tech company/branch in Europe due to the ridiculous hoops you have to jump through. This pushes a lot of business towards China/India (for example) and I foresee the EU being left behind if they don't acknowledge you can't just grow a Silicon Valley, you have to foster it by not having obstacles at every turn.

What's worse, and I don't want to write too much and potentially anger some people here, the actual place where they ARE fostering something is with more recent immigration patterns. And with that they're importing a culture that definitely has some undesirable traits for modern Western philosophy. That dichotomy is creating an increasingly risky situation.
 
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