Engadget: Apple finally reveals the new Mac Pro

kuyaglen

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I wonder how long it will be till we see the first functioning cheese grater case mod.
 

TheOne&OnlyZeke

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Its.....strange looking....the 999 stand...man that part was hilarious. even the presenter stuttered when the crowd reacted with a few boos
 
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idiomatic

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Any pro who can afford this is getting dual cpu's, 100Gbe San, and an outboard box to put 8 Nvidia cards in attached by two x16 host adaptors. A single NVMe will saturate a 10Gbe these days. Pro's not working on that sort of gear can't afford this shit either.

They have it pictured with a $40k full Resolve panel and talking about Prores Raw 8K. They are dreaming. With 4 cards its a competent 4k Raw system.
 

idiomatic

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How about you wait for it to arrive instead of comparing spec sheets. Apple is well known for being more than the sum of its parts and wait for user experience reviews and some benchmarks...

Apple is well known for stranding anyone who invested heavily in their gear, EOL'ing an entire industry without warning. They just shut down their Sans, Servers, Software, volume licensing. Just said fuck it these people aren't worth it. I had clients who updated to 10.6 or something and suddenly the full screen button grayed out your extra displays. Even Apple says their gear is for amateurs. A.k.a. "The professional in all of us"
 
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Any pro who can afford this is getting dual cpu's, 100Gbe San, and an outboard box to put 8 Nvidia cards in attached by two x16 host adaptors. A single NVMe will saturate a 10Gbe these days. Pro's not working on that sort of gear can't afford this shit either.

They have it pictured with a $40k full Resolve panel and talking about Prores Raw 8K. They are dreaming. With 4 cards its a competent 4k Raw system.

Did you read anything.... at all?

The Apple Afterburner is dedicated to Prores hardware decoding, capable of handling 3 x 8K streams with no proxy media.
 

Vega

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When you factor in the build materials and design, its justifying its price. People need to stop comparing these systems to consumer grade shit. The iMac was flouted as overpriced but ended up being cheaper than its competitors if you spec them equivalently.

Uh, I know what things cost to build. That stand is an extruded piece of aluminum with a spring and some gears. Cost TOPS $30 to make in China. Sold for $999...
 
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Uh, I know what things cost to build. That stand is an extruded piece of aluminum with a spring and some gears. Cost TOPS $30 to make in China. Sold for $999...

Well get on it then, you can make a mint, ill wait.
 
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Soulstorm brew

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screenshot_274_575px-png.png


Are they really touting quiet operation as a selling point for a monitor ?

edit ; never knew some monitors had active cooling.
 
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Hatriot

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Well get on it then, you can make a mint, ill wait.

It happens all the time, yet it won't have the all the important Apple "logo" required for certain social circles. You keep harping on OSX as a justification for the typical inflated price tag. What exactly does OSX do that other operating systems do not? Everyone I know who owns a mac does one of three things. Open up a terminal to ssh to a host. Open up a web browser to use a web app. Or open up a virtualized instance of Windows to run Windows programs.
 

GoodBoy

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Anything with the Apple logo on it is overpriced. Doesn't matter that it has a Xeon. Spec it out and build an equivalent pc (with a Win10 os license) and its cheaper, by ~$1000 (or more). I didn't bother to spec this one out and price it because I've already done that a few times for previous apple computers.
 

Algrim

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Did Apple fire all their designers and let someone's nephew (he's getting his associates in art history at the community college) design that thing? DAMN that's ugly.

I'm sitting next to a 2010 Mac Pro (also called a cheese grater) and I do actually like the look of the old and new cases. :oldman:
 

AltTabbins

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As has been said, run Final Cut Pro.

Near as I can tell that's it.

Logic Pro X.

I think of the Mac Pro as more of a tool for content creators/editors/engineers. Comparing it to a regular PC is like comparing a Ferrari to a John Deere tractor and saying one is better than the other just because they both have 4 wheels.
 

Grimlaking

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Xeons and ECC are desktop HW? Both the monitor and Mac are beasts. Insanely expensive beasts for the 1% or businesses with deep HW budgets.

Not when you compare them to workstation class desktops. Just FYI. I did some research checking Dell.
 

Lakados

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View attachment 165459

Are they really touting quiet operation as a selling point for a monitor ?

edit ; never knew some monitors had active cooling.
Professional 6K and 8K monitors often have active cooling, down side to that huge of a signal needing to be processed. I just want to see the tear down of it, I want to see what kind of hardware they crammed in there to do it.
 

capt_cope

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I'm sitting next to a 2010 Mac Pro (also called a cheese grater) and I do actually like the look of the old and new cases. :oldman:
The old design (pre-trash can) was beautiful. IMO this new one looks like a particularly bad canal street knockoff of the old design.
 

TeeJayHoward

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Anything with the Apple logo on it is overpriced. Doesn't matter that it has a Xeon. Spec it out and build an equivalent pc (with a Win10 os license) and its cheaper, by ~$1000 (or more). I didn't bother to spec this one out and price it because I've already done that a few times for previous apple computers.
Significantly cheaper. You can build the base model Mac Pro for $2000.

Code:
$750   Xeon W-3223
$500   Supermicro X11SPA-TF
$275   4x8GB DDR4 ECC RDIMM
$200   Power Supply
$175   Radeon 580
$50    EATX Case
$35    M.2 256GB SSD
 

AltTabbins

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Significantly cheaper. You can build the base model Mac Pro for $2000.

Code:
$750   Xeon W-3223
$500   Supermicro X11SPA-TF
$275   4x8GB DDR4 ECC RDIMM
$200   Power Supply
$175   Radeon 580
$50    EATX Case
$35    M.2 256GB SSD

I appreciate the message but pricing things so low doesn't help your case. Give realistic prices and you can still see the value in the self built system.

$750 Xeon W-3223
$500 Supermicro X11SPA-TF
$275 4x8GB DDR4 ECC RDIMM
$373 1600w Power supply from a reputable brand (EVGA in this case)
$175 RX 580
$200 a real EATX case. Not some cracker jack case made from recycled Diet Mnt Dew cans.
$150 Samsung 970 Pro SSD.
$60 Thunderbolt add In card.
$35 Wireless AC add in card.
?? Chip that let you stream 3 8k RAW videos. This is incredibly important for content editors as they usually work with files on a big file store. Usually a beastly flash based NAS since these files are way too big to be hosted on the editing workstation. A chip like this means seamless and butter smooth tracking and scrubbing through video.
?? OSX since you will need it for Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro. If you are buying a Mac Pro for anything but professional media production, you deserve to have your wallet destroyed anyways.
 
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trick_m0nkey

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Honestly if Apple just included the silly stand with the monitor and made the final price $1k more, no one would have said anything.

Steve Jobs would be slapping marketing people for thinking people would be excited about a $1k stand.
 

IdiotInCharge

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?? Chip that let you stream 3 8k RAW videos. This is incredibly important for content editors as they usually work with files on a big file store. Usually a beastly flash based NAS since these files are way too big to be hosted on the editing workstation. A chip like this means seamless and butter smooth tracking and scrubbing through video.

This is really the ability to keep the streams 'in flight', with full encoding, decoding, and intermediate output.

I don't know of any hardware + software that can do this at the consumer level. This is perhaps the unique draw of the new Mac Pro.
 

TeeJayHoward

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I appreciate the message but pricing things so low doesn't help your case. Give realistic prices and you can still see the value in the self built system.
[...]
$200 a real EATX case. Not some cracker jack case made from recycled Diet Mnt Dew cans.
$150 Samsung 970 Pro SSD.
$60 Thunderbolt add In card.
$35 Wireless AC add in card.
?? Chip that let you stream 3 8k RAW videos. This is incredibly important for content editors as they usually work with files on a big file store. Usually a beastly flash based NAS since these files are way too big to be hosted on the editing workstation. A chip like this means seamless and butter smooth tracking and scrubbing through video.
?? OSX since you will need it for Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro. If you are buying a Mac Pro for anything but professional media production, you deserve to have your wallet destroyed anyways.
None of what you upgraded is required to get base level Mac Pro performance. Heck, I could cut $100 out of the power supply budget and add in your WiFi and Thunderbolt cards and still be well under the kind of juice a Xeon+580 would pull down.
 

dvsman

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Great news for the Apple only production shops. This is in no way shape or form meant for most normies although every Apple sycophant will want one just to up their Apple cred amongst their fellow Apple-ites.
 

Joust

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I guess I'm torn as to whether this is HEDT or straight up enterprise product placement. Either way, clearly not for the rank-and-file. Or if so, they jumped the shark.

That stand though. That was overstepping even for them.
 

IdiotInCharge

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That stand though. That was overstepping even for them.

For humor, I'll try to defend it: since they're not selling the stand outright with the panel, and since the stand is going to be a high quality part all around, I expect that the retail unit price exists to make up for not selling as many units.
 

pillagenburn

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That case looks like it was hit with some very precisely placed buckshot....

Still, even with the appeal of a computer case that's been shot up, I'm planning on holding out for the Mac Amateur. This Mac Pro looks like complete defecation.

Though I may consider one if they save the buckshot for the last stage of the manufacturing process......... if the price is right, of course.
 

TrevorR

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For humor, I'll try to defend it: since they're not selling the stand outright with the panel, and since the stand is going to be a high quality part all around, I expect that the retail unit price exists to make up for not selling as many units.

Literally my exact thought that I was about to post. I imagine this stand will be aluminum based just like that attached to the iMac which is a pretty solid part. In addition to them expecting not to sell much to begin with because even if they included a stand with the monitor, 99% of them would be thrown in the dumpster with the box. So perhaps this is a way for Apple to be green?

Essentially, this is just an option that few will opt for.
 

AltTabbins

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Try and defend the Mac Pro? - If you say its expensive or that you can buy the parts for cheaper, you aren't the person who they made this for.
Try and defend the stand? - Nothing. I have nothing. Maybe if it was like $500 I could, but a grand for an aluminum stand. One thousands dollars. The Mac Pro is a critical tool for a lot of people in media. $6000-$12,000 is pocket change for companies who will use this for what it was built for. This stand? I have nothing.
 
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As has been said, run Final Cut Pro.

Near as I can tell that's it.

FCPx, LogicX and as described in the keynote they basically have every other media creation platform onboard for optimisation.

It happens all the time, yet it won't have the all the important Apple "logo" required for certain social circles. You keep harping on OSX as a justification for the typical inflated price tag. What exactly does OSX do that other operating systems do not? Everyone I know who owns a mac does one of three things. Open up a terminal to ssh to a host. Open up a web browser to use a web app. Or open up a virtualized instance of Windows to run Windows programs.

No one would care if it had an Apple logo I guarantee you, proper content houses where these machines will live are work sites.

This is really the ability to keep the streams 'in flight', with full encoding, decoding, and intermediate output.

I don't know of any hardware + software that can do this at the consumer level. This is perhaps the unique draw of the new Mac Pro.

I suggest people watch the keynote also, it is actually pretty incredible to watch it in action. 3 x 8K streams live with effects dropped on the timeline, no stop for rendering or frame drops, insane!

Logic Pro X was equally impressive, the amount of instruments :ROFLMAO:
 
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Logic Pro X.

I think of the Mac Pro as more of a tool for content creators/editors/engineers. Comparing it to a regular PC is like comparing a Ferrari to a John Deere tractor and saying one is better than the other just because they both have 4 wheels.

Well the new Mac Pro can have 4 wheels so maybe we should compare it to a Ferrari. My prediction is it will be cheaper, more reliable and won’t catch fire.
 

Snowdog

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Honestly if Apple just included the silly stand with the monitor and made the final price $1k more, no one would have said anything.

Steve Jobs would be slapping marketing people for thinking people would be excited about a $1k stand.

Well I don't think they thought anyone would be excited. But I am wondering how they didn't know that it would shock people and open them up to ridicule. That is a sign that Apple execs have really lost touch.

A $999 monitor stand is everything wrong with Apple today

[You can pinpoint the exact moment when Apple lost the WWDC audience on Monday. John Ternus, the company's VP of hardware engineering, had just revealed that the Pro Display XDR, its new high-end 6K monitor, will cost $4,999. That's pricey, but reasonable considering all of the features it offers. But then there was one more thing, and not the good kind. One hour, forty two minutes and five seconds into the keynote stream, he revealed that the Pro Display's stand is a separate $999 purchase. The crowd, which was mostly enthusiastic until then, erupted into cautious murmurs -- enough to make Ternus stammer as he continued on. He was completely unprepared for the Apple faithful to question the glorious technology being bestowed upon them.

It's the only piece of the presentation that I watched. The audience was quite enthusiastic about the $4999 price of the monitor, but even this audience of Apple faithful, had an obvious collective negative reaction to having to pay $999 for a monitor stand.

It's like Apple wanted to validate, exactly what their most strident critics attack them over.
 
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When you factor in the build materials and design, its justifying its price. People need to stop comparing these systems to consumer grade shit. The iMac was flouted as overpriced but ended up being cheaper than its competitors if you spec them equivalently.

Xeon chips are not cheap people.

lol
 

idiomatic

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Did you read anything.... at all?

The Apple Afterburner is dedicated to Prores hardware decoding, capable of handling 3 x 8K streams with no proxy media.

ProRes Raw, a format used by zero cameras. How many streams of BMD Raw or Red RAW or Arri Raw do you think that card decodes?

Would you rather have 28 intel cores with 6 channels of ram or 128 AMD cores with 16 when rendering?

The Red Rocket was a similar adapter and recently became obsolete because GPU's are so much more flexible. Again, its all very 2014.

If you really want an Intel single socket cheese grater doing weird proprietary shit, QNAP's got you Fam.

https://www.qnap.com/en/product/ts-2888x

4 x U.2 in raid 0 to give 16 GB/s as a system cache



You invest $400k into tens of these things for your editors say, then next year Apple dumps x86. Walk away man.
 
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ProRes Raw, a format used by zero cameras. How many streams of BMD Raw or Red RAW or Arri Raw do you think that card decodes?

Would you rather have 28 intel cores with 6 channels of ram or 128 AMD cores with 16 when rendering?

The Red Rocket was a similar adapter and recently became obsolete because GPU's are so much more flexible. Again, its all very 2014.

If you really want an Intel single socket cheese grater doing weird proprietary shit, QNAP's got you Fam.

https://www.qnap.com/en/product/ts-2888x

4 x U.2 in raid 0 to give 16 GB/s as a system cache



You invest $400k into tens of these things for your editors say, then next year Apple dumps x86. Walk away man.

You are honestly talking about CPU rendering? You must be a Premiere fanboy... :ROFLMAO: CPU rendering is G A R B A G E

ProRes is an internal workflow format ffs, you transcode at the ingest station. Other companies have also announced support for Afterburner like RED also for their apps but this takes time due to development. Hence why the Mac Pro is out in the fall not now.

You could run triple Quadro’s and still simultaneous 8K workflows are impossible. So your RED RAW argument is BS. ASICs will always be superior to jack of all trades dies like GPUs or x86. They are built to do 1 one and do it fast and efficiently.
 
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Vader1975

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While I think it looks great. The short NVME and only 2 slots for the entire storage capacity? The selections and specs seem odd but I do understand this design started quite some time ago so intel was sharing with Apple what they "would" be making in the future. It seems so end of generation though. The Xeon's it supports are right at the end of cycle before DDR5 and drops in NM. The Vega II's while still quite fast are right at the end of GCN. It's like this is the last big hurrah for a lot of parts that won't live long and won't replace well. Intel drops socket support like people change Jelly Bean flavors so this socket will die instantly (as for future cpu support.) So an interesting design and build quality. With interesting airflow design that should at least function. With a ton of end of generation parts for the highest pricepoints you can build them for and a max of 4TB. Boy I am just not seeing this as being very Epyc... kinda odd really.

Now the monitor and its stand is very slick. I prefer and am currently using 21:9 but the 6K and the high contrast and color levels are very nice and will make Dell work harder on their 8K monitor to compete. So that is a good thing? I just don't see these being as widely accepted as the Cheesgrater to my left. My 2009 with twin 3.46Ghz 6 cores and 96GB of DDR3 with Vega Frontier and multiple SSD's and 5TB drives just doesn't feel quite retired as of yet. So I'll just have to hack that no upgrading the OS bs and keep rolling the Cheese.
 
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