EKWB Lays Off 25% of Workforce, Blames Lower Watercooling Sales

Zarathustra[H] said:
The problem with automotive coolant products is that they usually include additives intended for the metal compositions and plastic and rubber hoses of cars. At best they are just unneeded for PC water loops, but at worst they can have unintended side effects that can gum up the fine channels in water blocks.
Click to expand...
Like I said I've used coolant meant for PC's and the stuff sucks. Besides algae growth and erosion, the color always stained the hosing.
I tend to think that ethylene glycol is one of the better solutions as in the right concentration it as it serves as all three things you want, a surfactant, a corrosion inhibitor AND a biocide, but corrosion and biological growth can still happen, unless you get the balance just right. Ethylene glycol also has some material compatibility issues, (I think it can cause cracking in PETG?). You can use propylene glycol to avoid these material compatibility issues, but Propylene Glycol is not as effective, and requires higher concentrations, which increases viscosity and reduces flow a bit.
Click to expand...
I'm using a hoat coolant. Like this one.
be9d-14465f162a88.bdd39b7a47810fdb6c6ad5bec768b20c.png

I have tried to read up, but there is very little good research on the topic of DIY coolants out there, and much of what does exist is conflicting information. Source A will say "this is great, I have used ti for a long time" whereas source B will say that same coolant is a problem.
Click to expand...
There's a reason for a lot of this. Distilled water is the best at cooling but will have growth and erosion in no time, thus failing the system. Glycol which is what most car coolants use and even AIO coolers, which react with PETG tubing and literally dissolve it. If you use Acrylic or regular flexible tubing then this isn't something you worry about. Car coolant is formulated to last a long time and made to work with a plethora of material, which works great because PC coolant loops aren't always just copper and tubing. You also only need about 5% to 20% coolant with the rest being distilled water to maximize performance. Car coolant won't get you the best cooling performance but will give you peace of mind knowing that you don't need to worry about anything going wrong. Most PC coolants are made for performance, but not so much about growth and erosion. Also color die, because as we know giving coolant a color will make it perform better. o_O
Long story short. Unless you need massive quantities like I might, it is probably best to just spend the $25 for something like EK's Cryofuel and have peace of mind.
Click to expand...
I trust car coolants more so than a company that has a guy in China sitting in a bathtube filling those coolant containers and handing it off to another guy that puts colored die in it. Especially when you consider the only purpose coolant serves in a PC is to prevent growth and erosion and car coolant is best at this. If you want the best performance you use 100% distilled water, but since most of us use our PC's for more than a month we need some sort of glycol to prevent problems.
 
If it's good enough for a car, it's good enough for the PC. Same with tubing. If it's good enough for house plumbing, it's good enough for a PC. Some like to really overthink the stress that a PC waterloop goes through. It's really noting relative to those other situations.

I'd honestly rather use a car radiator/heater core over a 'premium' PC radiator anyday if I could make it fit. Would be a hell of a lot cheaper for way more cooling, too. I mean a single EK radiator cost more than a radiator for my v6 lol.
 
DukenukemX said:
I trust car coolants more so than a company that has a guy in China sitting in a bathtube filling those coolant containers and handing it off to another guy that puts colored die in it. Especially when you consider the only purpose coolant serves in a PC is to prevent growth and erosion and car coolant is best at this. If you want the best performance you use 100% distilled water, but since most of us use our PC's for more than a month we need some sort of glycol to prevent problems.
Click to expand...

If you read into the details though, especially surrounding corrosion, it is not as simple as all that.

There really is no such thing as a general anti-corrosive. Usually they are targeted at the specific metals that they fluid is believed to come in contact with. Automotive coolatns will have a whole bunch of additives in the mix that might work wonders on a car, but may not be well suited to the different application of a PC water loop.
While Ethylene Glycol can sometimes help prevent corrosion, in some cases uninhibited ethylene glycol can actually accelerate corrosion.

This article summarizes it a bit:
https://www.boydcorp.com/resources/fluid-control-technologies/preventing-corrosion.html

Corrosion inhibitors wind up being a very complicated topic, with the general take-away being "you really want something purposely designed for your specific application."
 
NightReaver said:
If it's good enough for a car, it's good enough for the PC. Same with tubing. If it's good enough for house plumbing, it's good enough for a PC. Some like to really overthink the stress that a PC waterloop goes through. It's really noting relative to those other situations.

I'd honestly rather use a car radiator/heater core over a 'premium' PC radiator anyday if I could make it fit. Would be a hell of a lot cheaper for way more cooling, too. I mean a single EK radiator cost more than a radiator for my v6 lol.
Click to expand...

Radiators are not what I am concerned about. It's the microchannels in the CPU and GPU blocks that I would be concerned about with the wrong coolants.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Radiators are not what I am concerned about. It's the microchannels in the CPU and GPU blocks that I would be concerned about with the wrong coolants.
Click to expand...
Idk. I used radiator fluid my entire time and then switched to mostly distilled water for years, no issues. No degrading performance, etc. Only time I did have an issue is when I used one of those dye additives in the distilled water in my very short "I wanna try to make things look cool" phase. Never again.

Again, I think people are just trying to overthink. How did systems ever survive in the early watercooling days?
 
NightReaver said:
Idk. I used radiator fluid my entire time and then switched to mostly distilled water for years, no issues. No degrading performance, etc. Only time I did have an issue is when I used one of those dye additives in the distilled water in my very short "I wanna try to make things look cool" phase. Never again.

Again, I think people are just trying to overthink. How did systems ever survive in the early watercooling days?
Click to expand...
A lot of them didn't - mine certainly got algae and clogged up within a year. I've been running Corsair's premix for 2 years now - other than permeation losses, solid as could be.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Radiators are not what I am concerned about. It's the microchannels in the CPU and GPU blocks that I would be concerned about with the wrong coolants.
Click to expand...
You don't wanna know what my water blocks microchannels looked like after using PC specific coolant for just a year. I wasn't able to fully clean it. This was my FX 8350 which I still have laying around and put my old water cooling stuff in it, including the water block since it only works on AM3 systems. The water block was from MicroCenter when they removed their water cooling section years ago and put massive discounts on stuff, including the water block which was $40. The radiator is a 140mm because that was the size fan that case took, hence why I'm not using it on my main system, and the water pump was some crazy Chinese pump that I regret buying, but because it didn't work but worked too damn well. It was some cheap $20 pump I bought that obviously was some fish tank pump retrofitted as a PC pump. Still works but the amount of flow it creates is just crazy. Since I switched to car coolant everything looks brand new, except for the system that used to have PC made coolant. It just never got clean. I could sand blast the microchannels clean with my sand blaster but I'm too lazy for that.
NightReaver said:
Idk. I used radiator fluid my entire time and then switched to mostly distilled water for years, no issues. No degrading performance, etc. Only time I did have an issue is when I used one of those dye additives in the distilled water in my very short "I wanna try to make things look cool" phase. Never again.

Again, I think people are just trying to overthink. How did systems ever survive in the early watercooling days?
Click to expand...
I never added the colored dye but the crap PC specific coolant did and perma dyed my hoses. The cooling systems I have are old like over 5 years old, including the coolant. Which I may change the coolant in my HTPC because that's been running 24/7 for those years and the coolant has now turned orange when it used to be purple.
lopoetve said:
A lot of them didn't - mine certainly got algae and clogged up within a year. I've been running Corsair's premix for 2 years now - other than permeation losses, solid as could be.
Click to expand...
PC cooling in the early days was simple and yet effective. They used trans cooler radiators or even engine radiators as these were cheap. Might have been from a Buick or something. They used fish tank pumps and hosing. The water blocks were machined which weren't as good as modern water blocks but did a better jobs than air coolers back in the day. You can bet they used car coolant or just water.

I'm surprised this website is still around.
https://www.webx.dk/oz2cpu/pcmod/water.htm
wbcpu-dt.jpg

wbcpu-mount1.jpg
 
DukenukemX said:
You don't wanna know what my water blocks microchannels looked like after using PC specific coolant for just a year. I wasn't able to fully clean it. This was my FX 8350 which I still have laying around and put my old water cooling stuff in it, including the water block since it only works on AM3 systems. The water block was from MicroCenter when they removed their water cooling section years ago and put massive discounts on stuff, including the water block which was $40. The radiator is a 140mm because that was the size fan that case took, hence why I'm not using it on my main system, and the water pump was some crazy Chinese pump that I regret buying, but because it didn't work but worked too damn well. It was some cheap $20 pump I bought that obviously was some fish tank pump retrofitted as a PC pump. Still works but the amount of flow it creates is just crazy. Since I switched to car coolant everything looks brand new, except for the system that used to have PC made coolant. It just never got clean. I could sand blast the microchannels clean with my sand blaster but I'm too lazy for that.

I never added the colored dye but the crap PC specific coolant did and perma dyed my hoses. The cooling systems I have are old like over 5 years old, including the coolant. Which I may change the coolant in my HTPC because that's been running 24/7 for those years and the coolant has now turned orange when it used to be purple.

PC cooling in the early days was simple and yet effective. They used trans cooler radiators or even engine radiators as these were cheap. Might have been from a Buick or something. They used fish tank pumps and hosing. The water blocks were machined which weren't as good as modern water blocks but did a better jobs than air coolers back in the day. You can bet they used car coolant or just water.

I'm surprised this website is still around.
https://www.webx.dk/oz2cpu/pcmod/water.htm
View attachment 551813
View attachment 551814
Click to expand...
In a way I think the early watercooling stuff was way more interesting. Not really a fan of what places like EK have turned it into. A loop should not cost 4 digits, yet here we are. $200 rads, $100+ d5 pumps, $8+ fittings, $50+ reservoirs, $200+ blocks.....absolutely insane.

Oh...and the fans. For God's sake, the fans.... What, $25-$30 a pop now? Then people just gobble it all up and post pics of their all white builds (that cost even more) over on places like r/watercooling.
 
NightReaver said:
In a way I think the early watercooling stuff was way more interesting. Not really a fan of what places like EK have turned it into. A loop should not cost 4 digits, yet here we are. $200 rads, $100+ d5 pumps, $8+ fittings, $50+ reservoirs, $200+ blocks.....absolutely insane.

Oh...and the fans. For God's sake, the fans.... What, $25-$30 a pop now? Then people just gobble it all up and post pics of their all white builds (that cost even more) over on places like r/watercooling.
Click to expand...

DukenukemX said:
You don't wanna know what my water blocks microchannels looked like after using PC specific coolant for just a year. I wasn't able to fully clean it. This was my FX 8350 which I still have laying around and put my old water cooling stuff in it, including the water block since it only works on AM3 systems. The water block was from MicroCenter when they removed their water cooling section years ago and put massive discounts on stuff, including the water block which was $40. The radiator is a 140mm because that was the size fan that case took, hence why I'm not using it on my main system, and the water pump was some crazy Chinese pump that I regret buying, but because it didn't work but worked too damn well. It was some cheap $20 pump I bought that obviously was some fish tank pump retrofitted as a PC pump. Still works but the amount of flow it creates is just crazy. Since I switched to car coolant everything looks brand new, except for the system that used to have PC made coolant. It just never got clean. I could sand blast the microchannels clean with my sand blaster but I'm too lazy for that.
Click to expand...

What kind of fluid did you use?

Anything that is not clear is asking for trouble. (To be clear, it can have color, just can't be opaque.) All opaque/shimmery fluids are for show only, and will get shit stuck in microchannels.
 
DukenukemX said:
Obviously not a custom loop built with parts from EKWB.
This is the CPU water block I'm using in one of my Ryzen systems. $25
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800964045528.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.15.64c75f9eO0tVCO&algo_pvid=269d409c-8f45-4d4a-9d13-e43c8e3d12c6&algo_exp_id=269d409c-8f45-4d4a-9d13-e43c8e3d12c6-7&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000029355026541"}&pdp_npi=3@dis!USD!29.95!25.46!!!!!@21021a7216771426620103569d0747!12000029355026541!sea!US!704675988&curPageLogUid=iiyrNvDxGRcT

This is the radiator I'm using in my main system. $35
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832849875706.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.7.339bxHdRxHdRHR&algo_pvid=3030777e-47ed-4de8-b42e-bd06a465a3d6&algo_exp_id=3030777e-47ed-4de8-b42e-bd06a465a3d6-3&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"67371420801"}&pdp_npi=3@dis!USD!38.0!35.34!!!!!@212249cb16771427447268752d06f8!67371420801!sea!US!704675988&curPageLogUid=7RKm8qcpD7Q6

Get that $50 pump from Amazon and you're a little over the price of one of those coolers. Fittings and hosing isn't expensive unless you go with compressing fittings, and even those are cheap from Aliexpress.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800295231287.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.11.27308YwP8YwPdk&algo_pvid=2ac38b4d-b4b6-47b4-bdf9-0402ac8f556c&algo_exp_id=2ac38b4d-b4b6-47b4-bdf9-0402ac8f556c-5&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"10000001996978397"}&pdp_npi=3@dis!USD!4.44!3.73!!!!!@211bf04a16771430365117789d06e0!10000001996978397!sea!US!704675988&curPageLogUid=4TAaSzoUeK5y

You don't need a reservoir but it helps plus you can buy pumps that come with them included. I got something similar to this 5.25" reservoir so that I see the bubbling flow in front of my PC. Plus I get to use one of my empty 5.25" drive bays cause nobody uses them anymore. It's $50 but I don't remember paying that much for mine.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804245053932.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US
Click to expand...
I've always like those 5.25" reservoir that Alphacool has but It would be a pain to fill it? Also I only use clear EK fluid so it's also pointless if you fluid is clear. Top it off the EK D5 pump res cylinder combo looks sweet as hell with the D-RGB.
 
vegeta535 said:
I use distilled water and primochill utopia and my loop has been clear for 2 years now.
Click to expand...
I have a couple of those, comes with my soft tubing. Never used it though. Only used cryofuel so far. May give utopia a try when I run out.
 
DukenukemX said:
Like I said I've used coolant meant for PC's and the stuff sucks. Besides algae growth and erosion, the color always stained the hosing.

I'm using a hoat coolant. Like this one.
View attachment 551710

There's a reason for a lot of this. Distilled water is the best at cooling but will have growth and erosion in no time, thus failing the system. Glycol which is what most car coolants use and even AIO coolers, which react with PETG tubing and literally dissolve it. If you use Acrylic or regular flexible tubing then this isn't something you worry about. Car coolant is formulated to last a long time and made to work with a plethora of material, which works great because PC coolant loops aren't always just copper and tubing. You also only need about 5% to 20% coolant with the rest being distilled water to maximize performance. Car coolant won't get you the best cooling performance but will give you peace of mind knowing that you don't need to worry about anything going wrong. Most PC coolants are made for performance, but not so much about growth and erosion. Also color die, because as we know giving coolant a color will make it perform better. o_O

I trust car coolants more so than a company that has a guy in China sitting in a bathtube filling those coolant containers and handing it off to another guy that puts colored die in it. Especially when you consider the only purpose coolant serves in a PC is to prevent growth and erosion and car coolant is best at this. If you want the best performance you use 100% distilled water, but since most of us use our PC's for more than a month we need some sort of glycol to prevent problems.
Click to expand...
I've used cryofuel for years and years and my blocks and loop have been impeccable clean. Not sure what's in it but it works perfectly. My washers are also in great shape. I just replace them even though I didn't need too.
 
Okay I'll give EK a bit of credit. I like the idea of the EDPM tubing. I'll have to look into that.

See? I don't hate everything they do, lol.
 
vegeta535 said:
I use distilled water and primochill utopia and my loop has been clear for 2 years now.
Click to expand...

I wasn't familiar with Utopia but it seems like a good less expensive option. I might give that a try if I ever do build my crazy 8 gallon loop :p
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I wasn't familiar with Utopia but it seems like a good less expensive option. I might give that a try if I ever do build my crazy 8 gallon loop :p
Click to expand...
You suppose to mix the little bottle with 1 gallon of distilled water. Which I still have most of the gallon bottle still.
 
NightReaver said:
If it's good enough for a car, it's good enough for the PC. Same with tubing. If it's good enough for house plumbing, it's good enough for a PC. Some like to really overthink the stress that a PC waterloop goes through. It's really noting relative to those other situations.

I'd honestly rather use a car radiator/heater core over a 'premium' PC radiator anyday if I could make it fit. Would be a hell of a lot cheaper for way more cooling, too. I mean a single EK radiator cost more than a radiator for my v6 lol.
Click to expand...

You just need to embrace your inner retro-nerd. Before there was prebuilt watercooling stuff for PCs, people'd go to their local pick-a-part with a bag of tools and rip the heater core out of some old rust bucket to use as their radiator. Folks with more money would buy new from autozone.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
What kind of fluid did you use?

Anything that is not clear is asking for trouble. (To be clear, it can have color, just can't be opaque.) All opaque/shimmery fluids are for show only, and will get shit stuck in microchannels.
Click to expand...
Whatever MicroCenter had at the time. I wasn't big into experimenting in finding the one fluid that actually didn't ruin my cooling system.
xDiVolatilX said:
I've always like those 5.25" reservoir that Alphacool has but It would be a pain to fill it? Also I only use clear EK fluid so it's also pointless if you fluid is clear. Top it off the EK D5 pump res cylinder combo looks sweet as hell with the D-RGB.
Click to expand...
It's a pain to fill because I do have a DVD drive above it, and it has to be removed to fill it. You also need to leave enough tubing to pull it out to fill it up.
NightReaver said:
Okay I'll give EK a bit of credit. I like the idea of the EDPM tubing. I'll have to look into that.

See? I don't hate everything they do, lol.
Click to expand...
I don't hate their products, it's what they cost. I'm sure their stuff works well, but at those prices I'm not doing them any favors in praising them. The reason their sales are going down and had to fire their work force is because custom loops are a niche product that only people with more money than sense would get into. It's the same problem with car exhaust systems in that brand name stuff costs a fortune like FlowMaster, but these are just pipes and the Chinese knock off stuff works equally as well for a much cheaper price. They hope more people buy their overpriced tubing instead of not, which a lot of people are not. Water cooling is pretty scary to do as is, you don't want to price it up to insane levels.
 
DukenukemX said:
I don't hate their products, it's what they cost. I'm sure their stuff works well, but at those prices I'm not doing them any favors in praising them. The reason their sales are going down and had to fire their work force is because custom loops are a niche product that only people with more money than sense would get into. It's the same problem with car exhaust systems in that brand name stuff costs a fortune like FlowMaster, but these are just pipes and the Chinese knock off stuff works equally as well for a much cheaper price. They hope more people buy their overpriced tubing instead of not, which a lot of people are not. Water cooling is pretty scary to do as is, you don't want to price it up to insane levels.
Click to expand...

If I could truly vote with my wallet, I'd probably go to Watercool's Heat killer line of products for all of my blocks.

What I do have to give EK credit for is that anywhere near launch time of board partner GPU's they are usually the only one out there with a full cover block for many GPU's.

In the past this was less of a problem. You'd just plan ahead and buy the specific GPU model for which good blocks exist, but in this GPU market where you are lucky to get one at all at anywhere near MSRP that isn't a luxury we really have.

If I had had my druthers, for my 4090 I would have bought a founders edition, and then bought a Watercool Heakiller block for it at the same time, but while I tried, I just wasn't one of the lucky ones who got my hands on a FE, so I wound up with an MSI board and the only block I could find for it was EK.

I imagine this is also costly for EK to accomplish, having so many versions and different SKU's of their products. This might partially explain why they are more expensive, but even so, I think they are overpriced.
 
Last edited:
Ya
Zarathustra[H] said:
If I could truly vote with my wallet, I'd probably go to Watercool's Heat killer line of products for all of my blocks.

What I do have to give EK credit for is that anywhere near launch time of board partner GPU's they are usually the only one out there with a full cover block for many GPU's.

In the past this was less of a problem. You'd just plan ahead and buy the specific GPU model for which good blocks exist, but in this GPU market where you are lucky to get one at all at anywhere near MSRP that isn't a luxury we really have.

If I had had my druthers, for my 4090 I would have bought a founders edition, and then bought a Watercool Heakiller block for it at the same time, but while I tried, I just wasn't one of the lucky ones who got my hands on a FE, so I wound up with an MSI board and the only block I could find for it was EK.

I imagine this is also costly for EK to accomplish, having so many versions and different SKU's of their products. This might partially explain why they are more expensive, but even so, I think they are overpriced.
Click to expand...
Right EK supports fast and vast. I already have me EK Vector ² 4090 block on it's way. All my blocks have been EK never had a single issue love them.
 
xDiVolatilX said:
All my blocks have been EK never had a single issue love them.
Click to expand...
Seems like a very low bar nowadays that literally anybody can match. $250+ for a gpu block is just silly and explains one reason why they're losing sales.

*Edit* Wow, $250 is literally the cheapest for 4xxx series, and goes all the way past $400. EK, you're drunk.
Bykski 4090 block

Amazing. Literally less than half the cost. Most likely performs the same and has the same material quality.
 
Last edited:
NightReaver said:
And yet they're still lacking, which is funny. Again, no 6800/6900 block for MSI cards, ever. Glad bykski had me covered, and for half the price.
Click to expand...

They may not have had the specific one you were looking for, but in my experience they support more AIB boards with fullcover blocks than anyone else on the market, by a very wide margin.

And that is pretty much the only reason I keep buying them. I have a bunch of EK stuff from back in the day, some of which is still in my loop (notably a bunch of EK D5 G2 pumps I got at a good price once, and my large glass reservoir, the large EK-Res X250 which was the only one that met my needs at the time of my build) but other than that, I have been trying to move away from them for years, and the fullcover GPU blocks keep pulling me back.

I am hopful the GPU market at some point calms the hell down and returns to some assemblance of normal. When it does, I hope to buy Watercool Heatkiller blocks for my future GPU's.
 
Last edited:
Zarathustra[H] said:
but in my experience they support more AIB boards with fullcover blocks than anyone else on the market, but a very wide margin.
Click to expand...
But you're wrong. Bykski exceeds them. I guess if that doesn't count for your definition of "market", so be it.

*Edit* Now I will admit that EK offers a wider variety of styles. Bykski offers, well, acrylic and that's it. They do have a couple of neat looking encased black boxes for the 4090, but that's it as for style variety.
 
NightReaver said:
*Edit* Wow, $250 is literally the cheapest for 4xxx series, and goes all the way past $400. EK, you're drunk.
Click to expand...

Yeah, prices have gone insane, but they are not AS much higher than they used to be, all totaled up.

EK's fullcover GPU blocks used to cost ~$119.99, but then they came without the backplate, which was like $49.99 extra, bringing a full solution to about ~$170.

Now they include the backplate for about $200, so these price increases actually wind up being roughly in line with inflation.

Mine is a stupid Christmas tree RBG LED edition (which I have disconnected) just because it was the only version available for my card. It cost me $269, which I grumbled about, but I needed a block.

The crazy expensive $400 models are active backplate models. You are essentially buying two waterblocks in one, one for each side of the card. It is totally unnecessary (except for the 3090 Tii with its hoit components on the back of the board) but it can hekp reduce temps a little bit I guess. If you want it though, you are going to pay for two blocks, because that is what you are getting.
 
NightReaver said:
But you're wrong. Bykski exceeds them. I guess if that doesn't count for your definition of "market", so be it.
Click to expand...

I didn't come across any when I was shipping for my board, but that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't have them, as they were not specifically on my shopping list.

I definitely consider them to be part of the market, just not a part of the market I would ever delve into.

I generally don't trust Chinese products, and try to avoid them wherever possible on principle. I also don't like rewarding the inherent IP theft involved with Chinese knock-offs.

Shouldn't be surprising they are cheaper than the alternatives though, when they steal designs, and have so much lower production costs over there.

I am no more likely to buy a Chinese water block than I am a Chinese car, for pretty much the same reasons.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I'm going from memory. I could have sworn there were basic non-LED blocks for ~$200 for some boards, but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
Nah. Cheapest 4xxx series, as according to their website and going by lowest price 1st, is $250+whatever else they tack on. $200 would be more understandable, bykski US store sells their blocks for $194.

*Edit* As for the Chinese knockoff stuff....how can they make a knockoff of a product that nobody else made? Such as my MSI waterblock? Again, might as well call every single block with machined acrylic and every single D5 pump a knockoff.
 
NightReaver said:
Nah. Cheapest 4xxx series, as according to their website and going by lowest price 1st, is $250+whatever else they tack on. $200 would be more understandable, bykski US store sells their blocks for $194.

*Edit* As for the Chinese knockoff stuff....how can they make a knockoff of a product that nobody else made? Such as my MSI waterblock? Again, might as well call every single block with machined acrylic and every single D5 pump a knockoff.
Click to expand...

Use same microchannel chip layout, just machine the back of the block differently so it fits on a different board?

The mico-machining configuration such that it achieves optimal heat removal without choking flow too much, and giving it a geometry such that plating operations still work is the real special sauce in a water block. Everything else is kind of trivial.

If you are doing it right, you try to design this contact area well, and then duplicate it over and over again in different applications, moving it a little bit up and to the left to fit on a different board, or changing the hole spacing a little bit so it can be mounted, etc.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
and giving it a geometry such that plating operations still work is the real special sauce in a water block.
Click to expand...
Yeah but all companies are using pretty much the same basic design. I really don't think you can accuse China of IP theft on this one just because they have a comparable product when literally every single other block manufacturer uses the same design basics.
 
NightReaver said:
Seems like a very low bar nowadays that literally anybody can match. $250+ for a gpu block is just silly and explains one reason why they're losing sales.

*Edit* Wow, $250 is literally the cheapest for 4xxx series, and goes all the way past $400. EK, you're drunk.
Bykski 4090 block

Amazing. Literally less than half the cost. Most likely performs the same and has the same material quality.
Click to expand...
I've had a Bykski block before it was great I liked it. Although there is no way I'm taking a chance with that type of service and shipping and support for a 1700 dollar investment. This 4090 is worth going EK. Going to keep it for as long as I can hopefully milk 5 years out of it.
 
NightReaver said:
Yeah but all companies are using pretty much the same basic design. I really don't think you can accuse China of IP theft on this one just because they have a comparable product when literally every single other block manufacturer uses the same design basics.
Click to expand...

Maybe not in this specific case, but still. It would be nice to see them come up with an original product for once, and not just take something that has been invented and perfected over in the west, and under-cut on pricing by using dollar a day slave labor.

It winds up forcing western companies into competing on "premium branding" because they will never be able to compete based on price no matter what they do, and this results in continually shipping more and more of production and expertise over there, with us shooting ourselves in the feet and shipping our futures to China.

Right now after the pandemic, the trend is to start moving production back west due to the vulnerability of global supply chains, but it probably won't be long until that lesson is forgotten, and we keep shipping our economic future abroad trading slightly lower prices now for exporting entire industries long term.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Maybe not in this specific case, but still. It would be nice to see them come up with an original product for once, and not just take something that has been invented and perfected over in the west, and under-cut on pricing by using dollar a day slave labor.

It winds up forcing western companies into competing on "premium branding" because they will never be able to compete based on price no matter what they do, and this results in continually shipping more and more of production and expertise over there, with us shooting ourselves in the feet and shipping our futures to China.

Right now after the pandemic, the trend is to start moving production back west due to the vulnerability of global supply chains, but it probably won't be long until that lesson is forgotten, and we keep shipping our economic future abroad trading slightly lower prices now for exporting entire industries long term.
Click to expand...
Who EK? Have you watched their live streams lately? They are at the forefront of innovation. They have a bunch of new products and designs coming soon. As far as water-cooling goes they are the best have been the best and will stay the best. Others can compete yea but EK is always one step ahead in some way shape or form.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Maybe not in this specific case, but still. It would be nice to see them come up with an original product for once, and not just take something that has been invented and perfected over in the west, and under-cut on pricing by using dollar a day slave labor.
Click to expand...
Nope, not going there. Keeping this discussion locked onto watercooling. Bykski and Barrow have made their own unique products. Watercooing is simple stuff at the end of the day and it's getting to the point where the differences between the "best" equipment and average might net you a few degrees lower.

xDiVolatilX said:
As far as water-cooling goes they are the best have been the best and will stay the best.
Click to expand...
Objectively false, but okay. I can say for certain their radiators are not "the best".
*Edit* Shoot, does EK have anything that can even remotely compete with Aquasuite? By far the best way to manage a waterloop.
 
Last edited:
xDiVolatilX said:
Who EK? Have you watched their live streams lately? They are at the forefront of innovation. They have a bunch of new products and designs coming soon. As far as water-cooling goes they are the best have been the best and will stay the best. Others can compete yea but EK is always one step ahead in some way shape or form.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure there has been much in the way of innovation in water blocks in over a decade.

All EK has done is to add sprinkling of clear plastic and RGB LEDs and slap a second block on the back of the board.

Not sure I'd call that innovation as much as it is grasping at straws.

All the real innovation in water blocks, optimizing flow patterns etc. happened more than a decade ago at this point.

In fact, EK really messed up here, because they tried to use a much too small fin design on their first gen Threadrippers blocks, trying to copy and paste their small CPU designs to Threadrippers without scaling them up like others (Watercool Heakiller) did.

I prefer Watercool because EK has shown us how they will behave when they have a failure in the field, with their bad nickel coats years ago, and the response was not good, blaming others, deflecting and not taking care of their customers.

I'd probably rank the block makers on the market like this:

Watercool > Alphacool > EK.

I would love to buy Koolance and Swiftech blocks. They were huge in the early days of water-cooling, but they seem to have mostly fallen by the wayside in recent years.

That's the order I go shopping in when I need a block.

My Threadripper block is a Watercool Heakiller. I've never actually bought an Alphacool block, but I have considered it on several occasions. EK winds up being the last resort when I can't find a compatible block. As I have mentioned before, I am unwilling to go with Chinese brands for many reasons.

I've also never seriously considered Corsairs reasonably new line of custom loop products, but I guess I could be persuaded to try them at some point.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I've also never seriously considered Corsairs reasonably new line of custom loop products
Click to expand...
The only product I would try of theirs is the radiators because they're just rebranded HWlabs L series which are extremely solid. Then again, why would I pay the Corsair tax when I can just get an L series directly for less...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top