EKWB Lays Off 25% of Workforce, Blames Lower Watercooling Sales

obs said:
That's true but I think the pandemic played a large part of that. Price of copper since 2020 has doubled. Labor costs have risen too.
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At no fault other than the oligarchy trying to maintain infinite profits. It's not about making money but making more money.
 
Ek support is good. Not sure if I could even communicate with bykski lol. That's why I went with EK for my Vector 2.
 
NightReaver said:
Never needed customer support for watercooling parts, but that's just me.
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I was about to say the same thing.

I guess I could picture needing to RMA something if it showed up defective, but other than that, it's not the type of product you need support on. It either works or it doesn't. Not much supporting involved. It's up to the user to figure out how they want to use it. It's called a "custom loop" for a reason.


Actually... I have to take that back.

As I was typing I just remembered I did reach out to EK support once, to ask how thick their active backplates were. They responded within 24 hours with a drawing with the appropriate dimensions on it. (This whole thing could hav ebeen avoided had they posted the drawing to the product webpage, but that's another story)

They even marked up this picture of a Motherboard for me:

?name=image.png
 
xDiVolatilX said:
Ek support is good. Not sure if I could even communicate with bykski lol. That's why I went with EK for my Vector 2.
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EK is not my top brand. (That would probably be Watercool.de) but I find myself often having to use them simply because they have a block for almost everything whereas Watercool has a more limited offering.

I don't think I'd trust any Chinese branded stuff in my water loop. Bykski is right out. As is Barrow, Monsoon and others. Won't touch them with the proverbial 39.5ft pole.

In general I try to avoid any and all Chinese products wherever possible, especially if they are going in my computer, or my car or anything else I care about.

For something throwaway like a can opener, sure. Who cares.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I was about to say the same thing.

I guess I could picture needing to RMA something if it showed up defective, but other than that, it's not the type of product you need support on. It either works or it doesn't. Not much supporting involved. It's up to the user to figure out how they want to use it. It's called a "custom loop" for a reason.


Actually... I have to take that back.

As I was typing I just remembered I did reach out to EK support once, to ask how thick their active backplates were. They responded within 24 hours with a drawing with the appropriate dimensions on it. (This whole thing could hav ebeen avoided had they posted the drawing to the product webpage, but that's another story)

They even marked up this picture of a Motherboard for me:

View attachment 551092
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Ah, that's pretty cool then. A company like Bykski might provide some support like that. They do have a US store (of course with prices twice that of buying from them off aliexpress). Most support I've ever had to look up is thickness of the thermal pads that came with the 6800xt block, but that was in the manual anyways.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I don't think I'd trust any Chinese branded stuff in my water loop. Bykski is right out.
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Eh, to each their own. Stuff works perfectly fine and Barrow/Bykski use the same methods and materials as any other company that makes copper/acrylic blocks.

*Edit* Just looked it up and to this day EK STILL never made a supported block for my MSI 6800xt. Sometimes the Chinese companies make stuff that for whatever reason the "name brands" simply won't. They also tend to experiment with new things a lot more.
 
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DukenukemX said:
At no fault other than the oligarchy trying to maintain infinite profits. It's not about making money but making more money.
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That's all any business is.

A way for its owners to make money.

Always expect them to do whatever maximizes profit. That is their one purpose for existing. It is silly for us to expect anything at all from businesses except that.

They don't exist to create jobs. They don't exist to drive the economy. They don't exist to push social issues. They don't exist to help customers. They exist for one thing and for one thing only. To make their owners as much money as possible.

Once you accept this fact, their behavior makes perfect sense.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
That's all any business is.

A way for its owners to make money.

Always expect them to do whatever maximizes profit. That is their one purpose for existing. It is silly for us to expect anything at all from businesses except that.

They don't exist to create jobs. They don't exist to drive the economy. They don't exist to push social issues. They don't exist to help customers. They exist for one thing and for one thing only. To make their owners as much money as possible.

Once you accept this fact, their behavior makes perfect sense.
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I also don't buy water blocks to deal with any of that. A water block is a very simple component and doesn't need to cost $100+. Like the water block bellow which can be bought for $40 off Aliexpress. EKWB is suffering from their own greed as most customers buy AIO coolers and think that it's the equivalent of a custom loop. If you build a loop the EKWB way then you'll spend hundreds. I have more then one custom loop that has literally been running 24/7 for years built with these Chinese parts.

-Thermometer-Display-For-AMD-Ryzen3-5-7-X470-AM-FM.jpg


https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251...064896610!sea!US!0&curPageLogUid=aeJTfFrISNHW
 
DukenukemX said:
I also don't buy water blocks to deal with any of that. A water block is a very simple component and doesn't need to cost $100+. Like the water block bellow which can be bought for $40 off Aliexpress. EKWB is suffering from their own greed as most customers buy AIO coolers and think that it's the equivalent of a custom loop. If you build a loop the EKWB way then you'll spend hundreds. I have more then one custom loop that has literally been running 24/7 for years built with these Chinese parts.

View attachment 551093

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832734087996.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.31.d9157ad6WVHL95&algo_pvid=c2da7893-df6a-47a8-ab6d-28d758531a45&algo_exp_id=c2da7893-df6a-47a8-ab6d-28d758531a45-15&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000029064896610"}&pdp_npi=3@dis!USD!54.05!39.24!!!!!@211be72e16770822763366944d06be!12000029064896610!sea!US!0&curPageLogUid=aeJTfFrISNHW
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Yup. Never understood why EK charges as much for a simple AM4 block ($200 or so) as a full size gpu block. Or why fittings (even barbed) cost what they do, or shoot, even their radiators. $70 for a single 140? Yeah, right. They're not even the best.

*Edit* Still using the X-MK block they have there. Just put it on my 7900x yesterday :D
 
Oh, and I'm not surprised that water cooling sales may be slowing.

There are usually three reasons people cite for wanting to run custom water loops:

1.) Lower temperatures for better overclocking (This is mostly dead)

2.) Lower fan noise (This is on its way out)

3.) For looks (If you are one of those people)

Overclocking seems more and more pointless by the day, with modern OC gains usually being low single digit percentages.

Modern air coolers are very capable too. Before I installed the water block the massive air cooler on my 4090 allowed it to run at max load very silently. And my 4090 has one of the shittier coolers without a vapor chamber. I bet if you have a vapor chamber model it is even better. As long as you have good case airflow, there seems to be less and less of a reason to do it.

While I like my water loop, if I were starting from scratch, I'm just not sure I would actually do it today. It's a lot of work and expense for ever decreasing actual benefit.

15-20 years ago, with a little good luck on the silicon lottery, a custom water loop could reduce the temps to the point where you could get an absolutely monster overclock. Today, that is really no longer the case. It makes me question why I am doing all the work and spending all of the money.
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
15-20 years ago, with a little good luck on the silicon lottery, a custom water loop could reduce the temps to the point where you could get an absolutely monster overclock. Today, that is really no longer the case. It makes me question why I am doing all the work and spending all of the money.
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It's pretty much just for the hobby of it. I like filling a case up with radiators and fans. It's fun. I guess if you're blowing a bunch of money on it because you insist on spending the absurd prices some of these companies charge, then that's one thing. Personally I just went back to cheap barbed fittings and hardware store hose clamps. Cheap, just as effective as $10 compression fittings.
 
German Muscle said:
What about Bitspower?
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Actually have some of their fittings in a lot I bought awhile back. Work as good as any other. They're sold on performancepcs, just like Barrow, Bykski, Monsoon, etc, so I'll take them just as seriously as the name brands.
 
German Muscle said:
What about Bitspower?
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Bitspower is Taiwanese. Taiwan is NOT a part of China.

They do some manufacturing in mainland China, but the design controls are theirs, and that matters and makes a difference.

It's not the "ethnically Han Chinese" part of a Chinese product that is the problem, its the business climate in mainland China.

The Business climate in Taiwan is very very different. I tend to trust Taiwanese products. I very much do not trust Chinese products. They are the land of poison toothpaste, melamine in milk, cars that can't pass crash tests (and have been caught cheating in them) and things that generally just fall apart, that and they steal IP like there is no tomorrow.

Lots of international businesses manufacture in mainland China, and while I would prefer to avoid that as well, it just isn't an option these days (though it has been getting better since the pandemic with businesses reevaluating their supply chains), but when international businesses manufacture in China, it is to those international businesses standards, specifications and quality requirements, and that makes all the difference.
 
NightReaver said:
Actually have some of their fittings in a lot I bought awhile back. Work as good as any other. They're sold on performancepcs, just like Barrow, Bykski, Monsoon, etc, so I'll take them just as seriously as the name brands.
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Bitspower is THE top fitting brand.

I'd rank them above all other major western brands (EK, XSPC, etc.), and I'd rank all of those other western brands above the likes of Chinese Bykski, Monsoon, Barrow, etc, which I consider pure junk.

Bitspower has been around forever, and they are the premium brand all others seek to emulate.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Bitspower has been around forever, and they are the premium brand all others seek to emulate.
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Eh, idk. What are the qualities of a fitting? They screw in and don't leak is all I measure a fitting by. I'd rather put my money into stuff like quality radiators.

*Edit* What makes you call all those brands junk? I mean...have you actually used them? Or is it just a "China makes junk" bias? I can't fault you entirely on the latter. But idk, it's a tad silly because they're a farcry from the "waterloop built with wish.com parts".
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Bitspower is Taiwanese. Taiwan is NOT a part of China.

They do some manufacturing in mainland China, but the design controls are theirs, and that matters and makes a difference.

It's not the "ethnically Han Chinese" part of a Chinese product that is the problem, its the business climate in mainland China.

The Business climate in Taiwan is very very different. I tend to trust Taiwanese products. I very much do not trust Chinese products. They are the land of poison toothpaste, melamine in milk, cars that can't pass crash tests (and have been caught cheating in them) and things that generally just fall apart, that and they steal IP like there is no tomorrow.

Lots of international businesses manufacture in mainland China, and while I would prefer to avoid that as well, it just isn't an option these days (though it has been getting better since the pandemic with businesses reevaluating their supply chains), but when international businesses manufacture in China, it is to those international businesses standards, specifications and quality requirements, and that makes all the difference.
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Barrow fittings come out of the same CNCs as bitspower if you didnt know.
 
NightReaver said:
Eh, idk. What are the qualities of a fitting? They screw in and don't leak is all I measure a fitting by. I'd rather put my money into stuff like quality radiators.
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I used to feel that way, and then I had a bunch of swivel bends suddenly leak on me all at once, and then I changed my tune.

I did accidentally run them a little bit warm (accidentally did a gaming session with my fans off, and allowed coolant to get close to 50C) so I am not completely without fault myself, but that is something a quality product might survive, but a cheaper one might not.

I don't care who you are, eventually you are going to have a bad day and accidentally flip the wrong switch or something like that, and when you do, it is better to have as much of a safety margin as possible.
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
I did accidentally run them a little bit warm (accidentally did a gaming session with my fans off, and allowed coolant to get close to 50C) so I am not completely without fault myself, but that is something a quality product might survive, but a cheaper one might not.

I don't care who you are, eventually you are going to have a bad day and accidentally flip the wrong witch or something like that, and when you do, it is better to have as much of a safety margin as possible.
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TBH, I don't trust ANY swivels. Least possible, thank you. Of that lot I bought, there were like 6 different brands and several leaked right away including a couple of bitspowers. If I want reliability, I go to barbs. It can't be matched by any compression fitting.
 
German Muscle said:
Barrow fittings come out of the same CNCs as bitspower if you didnt know.
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A CNC is just a tool. And sure, that could be a point of failure if you don't monitor for tool wear, etc. etc.

But there is much much more to delivering a quality product than just that. The design matters very much. The tolerancing and specifications the designer specifies something is manufactured to. Then there are the sampling plans, statistical process controls and other process monitoring tools used to stay on top of things as the processes inevitably migrate over time, and continuously improve.

I have an overwhelmingly higher confidence level in Bitspower than I do in Barrow, even if they use the same manufacturing facility. As someone who has worked in or around manufacturing (and also design) my entire 20 year career I can confidently say that by focusing just on the manufacturing facility or their tools, you are looking at maybe 20% of what it takes to result in a good product. The other 80% are good design practices including good risk management, as well as good monitoring.
 
NightReaver said:
TBH, I don't trust ANY swivels. Least possible, thank you. Of that lot I bought, there were like 6 different brands and several leaked right away including a couple of bitspowers. If I want reliability, I go to barbs. It can't be matched by any compression fitting.
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I trust my compression fittings (for soft tubing) more than I do barbs. Once I crank them down, they stay on really well. I can pull as hard as I can on those suckers, and it is VERY difficult to make them pop off. And I have never seen one leak fro the tube interface once tightened down properly.

I mean, a compression fitting for soft tubes IS essentially a barb on the inside, just with an added metal part to force the tube to stay in place. Even if you ziptie your barbs you are probably not going to get the same kind of security (You might with hose clamps though, but ain't nobody got time for that)

I only once had a soft tube compression fitting leak on me, and that was my own fault. It wasn't actually the compression fitting portion of it that leaked, it was the G1/4" interface to the block. I was tired and didn't notice that the little o-ring had fallen off the fitting before I installed it.

Lesson learned. Now I obsessively check for that every time I break into my loop.

Compression fittings on hard tubes - however - scare the shit out of me. You won't find me using those in my systems. They seem to provide very low resistance to popping off.

As far as swivels go, I have a pretty large number of bitspowers in my system, where they have been for a few years now, with 0% leaks.

I would rather go without, but my loop doesn't allow for it without kinking, so I need them, and if I am going to have them in there, Bitspower are the only ones I trust from personal experience
 
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I have 3 bykski gpu blocks and 2 cpu blocks in service along thith 5 of their rads and fitting + res pump combos. So far zero issues with any of it outside of missing a few thermal pads from one of my ali express orders. I also have had no issues with support response from bykski us and the bykski mod store ali express.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I trust my compression fittings (for soft tubing) more than I do barbs. Once I crank them down, they stay on really well. I think I trust them more than I do barbs.
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As someone who has used plenty of both, I'll agree to disagree. I will agree on the hardtubing though, No way I trust that.
 
NightReaver said:
As someone who has used plenty of both, I'll agree to disagree. I will agree on the hardtubing though, No way I trust that.
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I've never had either leak in a several years of doing this with increasing levels of complexity.

I did a quick count in my head and I probably have 26 compression fittings in my current build, which have been working without leaks since my rebuild in 2019. Before that I used the same fittings in my old builds (but fewer of them) for years before that.

I've only rarely used barbs, but those have never leaked either. My sample size would be insignificantly small on barbs though, so I can't have any conclusions there.

As far as compression fittings go, most of mine are XSPC, but a handful are built into my QDC's from Koolance.

I've never had a tube to fitting leak on any fitting I've used. I tend to crank mine down to the point where I get blisters on my fingers before my build is done though.

I almost can't picture how a leak would happen with a compression fitting. Maybe your tubing dimensions were not to spec? I have heard sometimes tubing vendors really screw up and deliver tubing that does not meet ID/OD specs, but I have never had this happen.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
A CNC is just a tool. And sure, that could be a point of failure if you don't monitor for tool wear, etc. etc.

But there is much much more to delivering a quality product than just that. The design matters very much. The tolerancing and specifications the designer specifies something is manufactured to. Then there are the sampling plans, statistical process controls and other process monitoring tools used to stay on top of things as the processes inevitably migrate over time, and continuously improve.

I have an overwhelmingly higher confidence level in Bitspower than I do in Barrow, even if they use the same manufacturing facility. As someone who has worked in or around manufacturing (and also design) my entire 20 year career I can confidently say that by focusing just on the manufacturing facility or their tools, you are looking at maybe 20% of what it takes to result in a good product. The other 80% are good design practices including good risk management, as well as good monitoring.
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:ROFLMAO:
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Oh, and I'm not surprised that water cooling sales may be slowing.

There are usually three reasons people cite for wanting to run custom water loops.

1.) Lower temperatures for better overclocking (This is mostly dead)

2.) Lower fan noise (This is on its way out)

3.) For looks (If you are one of those people)

Overclocking seems more and more pointless by the day, with modern OC gains usually being low single digit percentages.

Modern air coolers are very capable too. The massive air cooler on my 4090 allowed it to run at max load very silently. And my 4090 has one of the shittier coolers without a vapor chamber. I bet if you have a vapor chamber model it is even better. As long as you have good case airflow, there seems to be less and less of a reason to do it.

While I like my water loop, if I were starting from scratch, I'm just not sure I would actually do it today. It's a lot of work and expense for ever decreasing actual benefit.

15-20 years ago, with a little good luck on the silicon lottery, a custom water loop could reduce the temps to the point where you could get an absolutely monster overclock. Today, that is really no longer the case. It makes me question why I am doing all the work and spending all of the money.
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I did it for the sound, but you’re right - good air can get the job done.
 
fuck EK, never again, what is even going on here some sort of pro EK bot farm??
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I've never had either leak in a several years of doing this with increasing levels of complexity.

I did a quick count in my head and I probably have 26 compression fittings in my current build, which have been working without leaks since my rebuild in 2019. Before that I used the same fittings in my old builds (but fewer of them) for years before that.

I've only rarely used barbs, but those have never leaked either. My sample size would be insignificantly small on barbs though, so I can't have any conclusions there.

As far as compression fittings go, most of mine are XSPC, but a handful are built into my QDC's from Koolance.

I've never had a tube to fitting leak on any fitting I've used. I tend to crank mine down to the point where I get blisters on my fingers before my build is done though.

I almost can't picture how a leak would happen with a compression fitting. Maybe your tubing dimensions were not to spec? I have heard sometimes tubing vendors really screw up and deliver tubing that does not meet ID/OD specs, but I have never had this happen.
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Well tbh, I've never had an issue with straight simple compression fittings. My original comment was about the compression swivels. Still, my last build used thick tubing (1/2x3/4) and the compressions were pretty tough to crank on. That was more to do with the tubing, however.

My main complaint of compressions are the cost and that for mine, the compression rings were sometimes really hard to get off (again, more to do with tubing probably). Anyways this really strays off course and I'll just wander back to my main point that I don't see the point of buying $10 fittings, but that's just me.
 
NightReaver said:
I don't see the point of buying $10 fittings, but that's just me.
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Jeez. Is that what really what compression fittings cost these days?

I have a large quantity in my WC spare parts bin and haven't had t buy them in quite a while.


I spent least than $5 per fitting when I stocked up, but most of that was 7 years ago now.
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
Jeez. Is that what really what compression fittings cost these days?

I have a large quantity in my WC spare parts bin and haven't had t buy them in quite a while.


I spent least than $5 per fitting when I stocked up.
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Looking on performacepcs, simple straight 1/2x3/4 compressions run for $6 for a barrow, $7 for a primochill, same for xspc, bitspower above $8, etc. Around the same on amazon. Even on Aliexpress a bykski is above $3 + another dollar or so in shipping per fitting. So if you're like me and decided to invest in one size of tubing already and a year later or so I decide I don't like it, SoL. So I go barbed and hardware store clamps.

*Edit* Don't get me started on fans. INSANE. Wish rgb would just die and stop gimping fan performance while driving up costs. Glad I got a bunch of ml120s for cheap in a lot sale.
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
Bitspower is THE top fitting brand.

I'd rank them above all other major western brands (EK, XSPC, etc.), and I'd rank all of those other western brands above the likes of Chinese Bykski, Monsoon, Barrow, etc, which I consider pure junk.

Bitspower has been around forever, and they are the premium brand all others seek to emulate.
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I have only ever used Bitspower fittings on the advice of a member here, Dan_D, as he said they are the gold standard. I actually have a ridiculous amount of them sitting right now, not even being used. I'd hate to calculate the amount of money in fittings I have. Probably enough money's worth to build an entire custom loop, rads, pumps, reservoirs and all. Almost all of them are swivel type fittings as well. I do have a ball valve fitting that the swivel is a little bad on. I also had a plug in the end of it and no water ever leaked out, but it just doesn't feel right, so I replaced it. I think I may have put some uneven pressure on it when I installed it the first time. It feels too loose for my liking. I've got lots of 30 degree, 45 degree, and 90 degree swivel fittings in place. I guess I like to live dangerously.

As for EK service, I did have to RMA a DDC pump. My wife bought it for me for Christmas and I didn't do anything with it for almost a year. I built my loop up and instant leak. It was actually leaking through the pump housing, not around the fittings. It leaked with no pressure. I could pour water into the inlet and you could see water come out of the housing. I had to send them several videos from different angles, but they replaced it in a reasonable amount of time. What kind of sucked is that they replaced it exactly with an item you could no longer even buy on their website. The version I had was a molex connector. The only one they offered at the warranty time was the new SATA version. They found me a molex version. It works fine though. I have it running in tandem with one of the SATA versions.

Edit: I'm actually also using some Koolance QD fittings right now so that I can isolate my graphics card and my external radiator. In hindsight, I should have added more so that I could isolate the cpu block as well. I was worried about restriction, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for two DDCs in series. Whenever I rebuild, and that's hopefully a ways off, I'll add them. I also think I'll probably always opt for an external radiator if possible.
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
EK is not my top brand. (That would probably be Watercool.de) but I find myself often having to use them simply because they have a block for almost everything whereas Watercool has a more limited offering.

I don't think I'd trust any Chinese branded stuff in my water loop. Bykski is right out. As is Barrow, Monsoon and others. Won't touch them with the proverbial 39.5ft pole.

In general I try to avoid any and all Chinese products wherever possible, especially if they are going in my computer, or my car or anything else I care about.

For something throwaway like a can opener, sure. Who cares.
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I been using barrow and Bykski for years and never had a issue with them. No discoloring or plating chipping. My loop after 2 years is still crystal clear. I just use distilled water and a biocide.

DukenukemX said:
I also don't buy water blocks to deal with any of that. A water block is a very simple component and doesn't need to cost $100+. Like the water block bellow which can be bought for $40 off Aliexpress. EKWB is suffering from their own greed as most customers buy AIO coolers and think that it's the equivalent of a custom loop. If you build a loop the EKWB way then you'll spend hundreds. I have more then one custom loop that has literally been running 24/7 for years built with these Chinese parts.

View attachment 551093

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832734087996.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.31.d9157ad6WVHL95&algo_pvid=c2da7893-df6a-47a8-ab6d-28d758531a45&algo_exp_id=c2da7893-df6a-47a8-ab6d-28d758531a45-15&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000029064896610"}&pdp_npi=3@dis!USD!54.05!39.24!!!!!@211be72e16770822763366944d06be!12000029064896610!sea!US!0&curPageLogUid=aeJTfFrISNHW
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I been using the same block for since 3950x came out and the plating looks like new still. The only issue I have is that it is a little big. It sits on the 1st NVMe slot and I can't change it out without removing the block on my GB master x570.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Oh, and I'm not surprised that water cooling sales may be slowing.

There are usually three reasons people cite for wanting to run custom water loops:

1.) Lower temperatures for better overclocking (This is mostly dead)

2.) Lower fan noise (This is on its way out)

3.) For looks (If you are one of those people)

Overclocking seems more and more pointless by the day, with modern OC gains usually being low single digit percentages.

Modern air coolers are very capable too. Before I installed the water block the massive air cooler on my 4090 allowed it to run at max load very silently. And my 4090 has one of the shittier coolers without a vapor chamber. I bet if you have a vapor chamber model it is even better. As long as you have good case airflow, there seems to be less and less of a reason to do it.

While I like my water loop, if I were starting from scratch, I'm just not sure I would actually do it today. It's a lot of work and expense for ever decreasing actual benefit.

15-20 years ago, with a little good luck on the silicon lottery, a custom water loop could reduce the temps to the point where you could get an absolutely monster overclock. Today, that is really no longer the case. It makes me question why I am doing all the work and spending all of the money.
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Modern CPU's are much hotter and letting them get to 90C+ isn't good for the chip. Also since modern chips self clock, the lower the temp the better it can maintain it's clock speed. Especially the new Ryzen 7000 chips which doesn't seem like anything can cool them effectively. Custom loops outperform everything including AIO. The problem with custom loops is that the parts cost a fortune, and the benefits from it don't outweigh the cost. Unless you're like me and buy them directly from China. The loops I'm using haven't needed anything done besides replacing the water block because I went from AM3 to AM4. The coolant I'm using is just Toyota car coolant with mostly distilled water because you really don't need to change the coolant like some people do. Also a cap of Water Wetter.
 
DukenukemX said:
Modern CPU's are much hotter and letting them get to 90C+ isn't good for the chip. Also since modern chips self clock, the lower the temp the better it can maintain it's clock speed. Especially the new Ryzen 7000 chips which doesn't seem like anything can cool them effectively. Custom loops outperform everything including AIO. The problem with custom loops is that the parts cost a fortune, and the benefits from it don't outweigh the cost. Unless you're like me and buy them directly from China. The loops I'm using haven't needed anything done besides replacing the water block because I went from AM3 to AM4. The coolant I'm using is just Toyota car coolant with mostly distilled water because you really don't need to change the coolant like some people do. Also a cap of Water Wetter.
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The only part I didn't buy from China was my radiator. I splurged a bit and bought HWLabs GTR 480 and now a 360 because they're in a different league for absolute performance. Looking at the EK website, their 480mm X series costs more than a 480 GTR. What are they thinking?

*Edit* I get to the bottom of the EK page for that radiator and what do I see? Made in China.
 
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DukenukemX said:
Modern CPU's are much hotter and letting them get to 90C+ isn't good for the chip. Also since modern chips self clock, the lower the temp the better it can maintain it's clock speed. Especially the new Ryzen 7000 chips which doesn't seem like anything can cool them effectively. Custom loops outperform everything including AIO. The problem with custom loops is that the parts cost a fortune, and the benefits from it don't outweigh the cost. Unless you're like me and buy them directly from China. The loops I'm using haven't needed anything done besides replacing the water block because I went from AM3 to AM4. The coolant I'm using is just Toyota car coolant with mostly distilled water because you really don't need to change the coolant like some people do. Also a cap of Water Wetter.
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As far as I am concerned, you can run up at Tjmax all day every day for the life of the CPU or GPU and it will not have any negative impact at all.

Agreed about maximizing boost clocks though. But a good air cooler ought to still be able to do this. The little box-cooler style ones won't cut it, but the big dual tower models should handle even modern CPU's. You'll just have to make sure you have good airflow in the case.
 
NightReaver said:
*Edit* I get to the bottom of the EK page for that radiator and what do I see? Made in China.
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I think it is very important to have a distinction between "made in" a place and where the design controls are held.

If these companies are going out and buying a poorly made Chinese copy cat brand and just slapping their names on it, that is one thing, and that is no better than buying a Chinese brand.

If you buy from a company that does their own design and testing, and just manufactures at a contract manufacturer in China, that is much less of a concern.

I mean, if I had my druthers, I'd buy something manufactured in the U.S., Western Europe, or Japan/S. Korea/Taiwan, but you can't always get what you want. Often times we have to put up with things manufactured in china, but I cannot overstate the difference between "manufactured in china" and "the company you are buying from is located in China, with testing done in China, with broducts based on a chinese design (stolen from the west or not).

Who owns the design controls is a really huge deal, and I'd arge even more important than where the thing is manufactured, as long as they don't drop the ball on vendor acceptance testing and oversight.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I think it is very important to have a distinction between "made in" a place and where the design controls are held.

If these companies are going out and buying a poorly made Chinese copy cat brand and just slapping their names on it, that is one thing, and that is no better than buying a Chinese brand.

If you buy from a company that does their own design and testing, and just manufactures at a contract manufacturer in China, that is much less of a concern.

I mean, if I had my druthers, I'd buy something manufactured in the U.S., Western Europe, or Japan/S. Korea/Taiwan, but you can't always get what you want. Often times we have to put up with things manufactured in china, but I cannot overstate the difference between "manufactured in china" and "the company you are buying from is located in China, with testing done in China, with broducts based on a chinese design (stolen from the west or not).

Who owns the design controls is a really huge deal, and I'd arge even more important than where the thing is manufactured, as long as they don't drop the ball on vendor acceptance testing and oversight.
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My point was more that they price it like a product not made in China. Nearly $200 for a 480mm radiator is quite up there. FWIW at least their blocks are not made in China and are also priced very high.
 
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