DX10 Interview with Microsoft Developers

V Interesting thanks for posting, The one problem I forsee is that if you want to make use of DX10 your going to need VISTA....
 
looks like you will need vista and looks like they wont be adding it to XP for quite some time if they ever do decide to. Looks like we're gonna have to fork over $X00.00 for their new OS. Well if DX10 and the new interface and features are all they are cracked up to be then i'm in.

The sad thing is that they are hitting a wall very quickly after DX10. Looks like RAM is not maturing as much as GPU and it looks like the programmers themselves will be hitting as cap as well. Soon the whole game will be hitting pre-rendered movie type levels and the programmers are not going to have the patience and resources to get the graphical immersion progressively better whenever DX10 starts to see its end. I hope they come up with something and they dont hit a lull. Games are great now but they dont have quite the immersion that I wish they had. Hopefully, Crysis will prove that DX9 is still good and that DX10 will make it even better.

this article is a 3 part series so keep tabs to see what they say when they talk to hardware and software companies.
 
Just read it and its got me all exited but before i get a DX10 card i am going to go quad and then its DX10 here i come.

Well thats my road map , i beleive we should all have a road map. :D

Its really interesting and i was surprised to hear that the PS3 is not going to have this , which means to me that it goes old before it gets even to the shelves.

The DX10 will even sort compatibillty issues for drivers and components , how cool is that.

I played PREY today on my 7950XXX on my 7950XXX and i maxed everything at 1600 by 1200 and i still got 70 FPS on a single core but after i read this and the way the future is changing the graphics industry it really got me all worked up.

The CPUs are getting better , the gddr4 is aproaching us in the graphics world , its getting more efficient in every way and we get more for our money. Its brill.
 
AndoOKC1 said:
this article is a 3 part series so keep tabs to see what they say when they talk to hardware and software companies.
Click to expand...

I am waiting with bells on. Small brass bells that are all shiny.
 
jnex26 said:
V Interesting thanks for posting, The one problem I forsee is that if you want to make use of DX10 your going to need VISTA....
Click to expand...

Is that really news anymore?

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTA0NSwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0

we were the first ones to break that piece of information in an official manner

DirectX 10 will be available to Windows Vista users only at its introduction. You will not find DirectX 10 being released for the Windows XP operating system. DirectX 10 is deeply embedded into Windows Vista operation and we currently know of no plans by Microsoft to allow Windows XP to officially support the new API.
Click to expand...
 
DX10 begin Vista only is not so much news as it comes to the classic issue when Microsoft releases a new OS. Why upgrade?

It funny to see the same question come up time after time. Tech geeks should know why to upgrade. Cause its new!

Tech geeks love to do new things with new stuff. That makes this business far more intresting. As the the techs start doing new stuff and enhancing this or tweeking that, things gradually shift and require the new platform. That's how it will happen with games. Someone will say, "Hey, I'm gonna make a killer DX10 game!" because someone will enjoy the challenge, and the transition will begin.

Technology is a business of creativity more so than anything else. New and powerful ideas that lead to better systems that do things no one could have imagined. Hopefully DX10 will usher in some great new things that will make gameing and other 3D systems more intresting than ever.
 
Whats going to be different in the new Directx 9.5 or whatever version that is going to come out soon? Is this what Crysis is running off of? Considering the version jump I would think there would be more then bug fixes in this release. I hope it allows cool stuff that would atleast make it not feel like to big of generation gap between dx 9 and dx10.
 
Brent_Justice said:
Is that really news anymore?

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTA0NSwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0

we were the first ones to break that piece of information in an official manner
Click to expand...

UHHH, yes it is news...its an actual interview with developers of DX10, so its not considered 3rd party info like what you provided, its considered primary party so they can really explain their intent and current methods and plans. remember how in elementary school we all learned that their are two types of sources, primary and secondary. Now we have two articles - one primary and one secondary. Reasearch typically has higher credibiliy with the use of primary sources as it has never been interpreted.
 
listening to the podcast there is an excellent explanation of what a Geometry Shader is in there, very good listening, it's at 12:40 into the audio.

Physics talk starts at 20 minutes in
 
Does anyone know approx. when/which cards will be DX10 capable? Will the cards be out before the actual software from MS?

Just curious... :rolleyes:
 
Given how DX10 will only work on MS's not-yet-released OS, I'm surprised at how many people are breathlessly waiting for it.

For the first year or so, it probably won't be that flash. The market just won't be there. You think that even a portion of the world market will spend spend spend on a new graphics card and new operating system when their old ones still work, and work fast? Studios will probably work on their DX10 render path for the first year or so. Yes, render path -- why limit your market to the small percentage with DX10-compliant hardware, when you can also sell to the DX9c market?

I think it'll be more like PCI/ISA, where we still had chunky black ISA slots on our motherboards a good few years after the introduction of PCI. And even then, a lot of people probably won't go to it. What, a business needs DX10 and a monster computer to do their typing and adding up?
 
alan.p said:
Given how DX10 will only work on MS's not-yet-released OS, I'm surprised at how many people are breathlessly waiting for it.

For the first year or so, it probably won't be that flash. The market just won't be there. You think that even a portion of the world market will spend spend spend on a new graphics card and new operating system when their old ones still work, and work fast? Studios will probably work on their DX10 render path for the first year or so. Yes, render path -- why limit your market to the small percentage with DX10-compliant hardware, when you can also sell to the DX9c market?

I think it'll be more like PCI/ISA, where we still had chunky black ISA slots on our motherboards a good few years after the introduction of PCI. And even then, a lot of people probably won't go to it. What, a business needs DX10 and a monster computer to do their typing and adding up?
Click to expand...

Besides the obvious "render path" that ALWAYS occurs in DirectX transitions, what was your point?

since when do game programmers care what businesses want. If you read the article the Microsoft guys clearly stated this and they cited the histories of DX8 and DX9 release for comparison. It is painfully, in fact tremendously, obvious that their wont be a clear market for it on day 1, but you have to start somewhere.
 
AndoOKC1 said:
Besides the obvious "render path" that ALWAYS occurs in DirectX transitions, what was your point?

since when do game programmers care what businesses want. If you read the article the Microsoft guys clearly stated this and they cited the histories of DX8 and DX9 release for comparison. It is painfully, in fact tremendously, obvious that their wont be a clear market for it on day 1, but you have to start somewhere.
Click to expand...
If some1 can recall the article and cite it, there was one recently stating that becuase M$ had released API or atleast early versions of it to developers early a lot of them will have games for vista and DX10 fairly soon after it is launched. If I find the article I'll post it, hope some1 knows which one im talking about.
 
m1 grant said:
If some1 can recall the article and cite it, there was one recently stating that becuase M$ had released API or atleast early versions of it to developers early a lot of them will have games for vista and DX10 fairly soon after it is launched. If I find the article I'll post it, hope some1 knows which one im talking about.
Click to expand...

Who says you need an article? It's been in the very public DirectX SDK since last december. Hell, here's the full documentation for the API if you want: http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~dcrooks/D3D10docs.zip

Its really interesting and i was surprised to hear that the PS3 is not going to have this , which means to me that it goes old before it gets even to the shelves.
Click to expand...

The PS3 is based (very loosely) off of 7800GTX-ish technology. X360 is in the same boat. However, consider the fact that the Xbox is basically GeForce 3 tech, and the GCN and PS2 even less feature-ful. Games on those systems still look good!

we were the first ones to break that piece of information in an official manner
Click to expand...

Hm. Sorry to break your ego here, but it's been fairly well known by people in 'the biz' for awhile now, and was not information protected by NDAs and such for a long time. PDC (i.e. August 2005) and GDC presentations both refer to the fact that D3D10 is built off of Vista's kernal and the VDDM, and prior to that, most MVPs and MSDN subscribers would be aware of the Vista-only limitations. Hell, even I knew about it long before the article was put up and I'm not a formal game dev at all.

Whats going to be different in the new Directx 9.5 or whatever version that is going to come out soon? Is this what Crysis is running off of? Considering the version jump I would think there would be more then bug fixes in this release. I hope it allows cool stuff that would atleast make it not feel like to big of generation gap between dx 9 and dx10.
Click to expand...

You mean D3D9Ex (pka D3D9.L)? Pretty much the only information you need to know is this: If a Direct3D-based game has compatibility for it, when you run it on Vista it'll be faster.

UHHH, yes it is news...its an actual interview with developers of DX10, so its not considered 3rd party info like what you provided, its considered primary party so they can really explain their intent and current methods and plans. remember how in elementary school we all learned that their are two types of sources, primary and secondary. Now we have two articles - one primary and one secondary. Reasearch typically has higher credibiliy with the use of primary sources as it has never been interpreted.
Click to expand...

Actually, even IF the HOCP article was news re:Vista-only, it still effectively counts as a "primary" source since it's information that was given to ATi directly from Microsoft's D3D10 team.

For the first year or so, it probably won't be that flash. The market just won't be there. You think that even a portion of the world market will spend spend spend on a new graphics card and new operating system when their old ones still work, and work fast?
Click to expand...

On this forum we have guys who are complaining of the upgrade treadmill because they upgrade from a 3-month old purchase of a 7900GTX to a 7950GX2. Yeah, I think a portion of the market will upgrade.
 
Cypher19 said:
Actually, even IF the HOCP article was news re:Vista-only, it still effectively counts as a "primary" source since it's information that was given to ATi directly from Microsoft's D3D10 team.
Click to expand...

That is one of the most absurd comments ive seen.It has amazingly violated 6th grade basic knowledge. if you think about it like that then everything was given to us directly.
Last I checked the author of that article was Brent Justice not ATI and even if ATI did get that information it still isnt a primary source. Primary sources have no altertion from the creator/subject words or views. It lacks all interpretation such as an interview. However, HOCP article is one that takes info from other people and interprets them and reformats it a secondary source. Sounds like a basic concept to me.
 
I find the remarks about PS3 and X360 being "fundamentally DX9 parts" rather odd. Sure, the PS3 uses a G70 variant, but the API is a highly customised OpenGL so really it has nothing to with DX9, and I'm sure they could get close to DX10 levels of performance out of it. And of course the X360 is partly DX10 with its unified shaders and custom API.
 
They're using the phrase "fundamentally DX9 parts" to refer to the hardware capabilities in general not necessarially how they're programmed specifically.

The Xbox360 may use a unified shader design but actual functionality doesn't appear to be much different from what you'd find with any other DX9 part.
 
AndoOKC1 said:
That is one of the most absurd comments ive seen.It has amazingly violated 6th grade basic knowledge. if you think about it like that then everything was given to us directly.
Last I checked the author of that article was Brent Justice not ATI and even if ATI did get that information it still isnt a primary source. Primary sources have no altertion from the creator/subject words or views. It lacks all interpretation such as an interview. However, HOCP article is one that takes info from other people and interprets them and reformats it a secondary source. Sounds like a basic concept to me.
Click to expand...

Our information came directly face-to-face in a meeting with Bob Drebin Director of Hardware Engineering and Guennadi Riguer Senior ISV Engineer at ATI who work with Microsoft and Game Developers concerning new graphics technology with DX10.

If you want to get technical they are the ones that have first hand contact with Microsoft and they passed the information to me. These are hardware and software engineering guys, the info I received that I put in that article was the real deal with no PR BS.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top