Doom Eternal

polonyc2

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There is nothing inherently _difficult_ about either of the DLCs (or the base game for that matter) - the gameplay loop itself is surprisingly simple.
The issue is the feature bloat and overdesigned "systems" which _force_ a certain gameplay style courtesy of Hugo Martin thinking Doom has to be a mash-up of pop-culture.
He said it himself "many players played Doom 2016 _wrong_ and it's painful". That's arrogance and this insistence on "play my way or don't" ruined Doom Eternal and the DLCs for me.

how is the basic gameplay any different then Doom 2016?...all they did was add more onslaught of enemies, bigger arenas to fight and some platforming...does that change the overall gameplay loop or design?...no it's the same...the major difference is that players need to rewire their brain and learn to use the new chainsaw/glory kill/flame belch mechanic...after a little while it'll feel natural and you don't even need to think about it anymore...that's when the game becomes crazy fun

people are using these minor changes as some excuse to hate the game when it's basically the same as every other Doom game...people also hate admitting to themselves that something is too challenging...I love challenging games so maybe that's another reason why I love Eternal so much...
 

polonyc2

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Oct 25, 2004
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Doom Eternal's finale wraps one of the best PC shooters ever with a stale fantasy fart

pile up the DLC on top of the rest and Doom Eternal easily becomes one of the best shooters ever...it may not stoke the fear of sin inside you anymore, and it may not induce hell yeah's at every wicked skyline, but Doom Eternal and its expansions make up an easy 30 hours of great shooting, minimum, that thoroughly encouraged me to pull off feats of reflex, spatial awareness, and tactical play I never thought I'd be capable of...Doom Eternal is officially an all-timer...

https://www.pcgamer.com/doom-eterna...t-pc-shooters-ever-with-a-stale-fantasy-fart/
 

Armenius

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Jan 28, 2014
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There is nothing inherently _difficult_ about either of the DLCs (or the base game for that matter) - the gameplay loop itself is surprisingly simple.
The issue is the feature bloat and overdesigned "systems" which _force_ a certain gameplay style courtesy of Hugo Martin thinking Doom has to be a mash-up of pop-culture.
He said it himself "many players played Doom 2016 _wrong_ and it's painful". That's arrogance and this insistence on "play my way or don't" ruined Doom Eternal and the DLCs for me.
Considering that quote was in reference to pre-release footage from game journalists, I understand why he feels that way. Game "journalists" have proven time and again that they are mentally incapable of learning a game's finer gameplay mechanics to where it clicks you into that "fun zone." I understand how that can sound condescending to people, especially seasoned gamers, but it is especially true for people who do not play video games or are not interested in video games (like video game journalists). Teaching how to play is a very real thing, as I've had to do it myself with people in the past. Once you teach people how to play a particular game, their enjoyment skyrockets. Casual games are so popular because that fun zone is easier to reach, appealing to a larger population.

The overall point of Doom 2016, though, is that the mechanics in Eternal were already in 2016 for the most part. The game fell into the trap of trying to have that depth without shoving it in your face, and as a result everybody falls into using two weapons at most. If you apply the same gameplay style from Eternal to 2016 it all of a sudden opens up a world of opportunity in addition to making the game easier.

Bottom line: a game is designed around a gameplay concept. No matter what the game is, you are playing within its rules. Ignoring or fighting against them will dramatically decrease the enjoyment that can be had. Sekiro took a similar approach to its concept and it was praised both by critics and by fans. I don't know why the feelings about Doom Eternal differ so much. I appreciate people's opinion that the game just isn't for them, but to say it's not good because it forces you into a certain playstyle is disingenuous.
 

Denpepe

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
1,937
Bottom line: a game is designed around a gameplay concept. No matter what the game is, you are playing within its rules. Ignoring or fighting against them will dramatically decrease the enjoyment that can be had. Sekiro took a similar approach to its concept and it was praised both by critics and by fans. I don't know why the feelings about Doom Eternal differ so much. I appreciate people's opinion that the game just isn't for them, but to say it's not good because it forces you into a certain playstyle is disingenuous.

I said this b4, if you change the core mechanics of an established IP you will get flak, better to use a new IP for it then possibly ruin an existing one, why do you think id had the same issue when they released Doom 3 with its much slower pace?

There are tons of games around where they strayed too far from their origins and took a beating for it.

What seems to work out for doom eternal is that there is an audience for it, I got my original purchase refunded which was for the total package and was like 89€ orso and bought the game on sale a while ago for like 25€, still not liking the game very much, every other room I'm stuck for 20+ minutes trying to find out where to go next or how to open the door in front of me, not realy what I expect from a Doom game but whatever, maybe I'll finish it, maybe I'll give up again at some point

At this point it feels more like resident evil then doom.
 
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1,000
Considering that quote was in reference to pre-release footage from game journalists, I understand why he feels that way. Game "journalists" have proven time and again that they are mentally incapable of learning a game's finer gameplay mechanics to where it clicks you into that "fun zone." I understand how that can sound condescending to people, especially seasoned gamers, but it is especially true for people who do not play video games or are not interested in video games (like video game journalists). Teaching how to play is a very real thing, as I've had to do it myself with people in the past. Once you teach people how to play a particular game, their enjoyment skyrockets. Casual games are so popular because that fun zone is easier to reach, appealing to a larger population.

The overall point of Doom 2016, though, is that the mechanics in Eternal were already in 2016 for the most part. The game fell into the trap of trying to have that depth without shoving it in your face, and as a result everybody falls into using two weapons at most. If you apply the same gameplay style from Eternal to 2016 it all of a sudden opens up a world of opportunity in addition to making the game easier.

Bottom line: a game is designed around a gameplay concept. No matter what the game is, you are playing within its rules. Ignoring or fighting against them will dramatically decrease the enjoyment that can be had. Sekiro took a similar approach to its concept and it was praised both by critics and by fans. I don't know why the feelings about Doom Eternal differ so much. I appreciate people's opinion that the game just isn't for them, but to say it's not good because it forces you into a certain playstyle is disingenuous.
I'm just salty after really enjoying Doom 2016 and expecting a Doom 2 type sequel (even attended my first Quakecon to play pre-release Doom Eternal).
I also just don't like Hugo Martin's direction. He rambles on and on about pop-culture, arcades, Mario blablabla - dude, you're making a DOOM game.
 

Drexion

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
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It's about expectations. When someone starts up a game of a specific genre or franchise they put themselves in a specific mood to enjoy it as much as they could. Someone starting up a Doom game puts themselves in the mood for some mindless fun FPS action with occasional horror elements, as the franchise has been for the past 25 years. But in this game you're fighting bullet sponges as a glass cannon with low ammo capacity, barely able to take damage while having to forage for ammo/health almost like a survival game. Expectations not met and fun goes out the window.

It's almost like the developers wanted to make a survival game but the publisher said "no thank you, just make more doom" and they kinda mingled ideas from their survival pitch into this title. It's an ok game but the 2016 release is the better 'Doom' game in many players eyes.
 
Joined
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Messages
574
It's about expectations. When someone starts up a game of a specific genre or franchise they put themselves in a specific mood to enjoy it as much as they could. Someone starting up a Doom game puts themselves in the mood for some mindless fun FPS action with occasional horror elements, as the franchise has been for the past 25 years. But in this game you're fighting bullet sponges as a glass cannon with low ammo capacity, barely able to take damage while having to forage for ammo/health almost like a survival game. Expectations not met and fun goes out the window.

It's almost like the developers wanted to make a survival game but the publisher said "no thank you, just make more doom" and they kinda mingled ideas from their survival pitch into this title. It's an ok game but the 2016 release is the better 'Doom' game in many players eyes.

What do you mean "survival game" because that's not what this was. I got mindless FPS fun with Demons, that's what I expected. The only Doom I've played where I didn't get what I thought I was going to get was Doom 3.
 

Armenius

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I'll definitely be giving this another playthrough after the update. I have actually yet to go through the Ancient Gods expansions, so this is the perfect time to do so.
 

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
16,740
the id Tech 7 engine and Vulkan API are so well optimized that I'm guessing you can enable ray-tracing without DLSS and still get 60+ fps
I hope so. I just played through Quake II RTX and absolutely enjoyed it. I never played much of Quake II back in the day because I preferred the dark/gritty atmosphere of the first Quake, so it was a fresh experience for me and I ended up having a blast. Game looks great too. Ray traced 4K old school shooter with Carmack level design...yes please.
 

Drexion

[H]ard|Gawd
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What do you mean "survival game"
Doom Eternal put elements from the survival genre into its core game loop. Things like starting off weak, with low-life, low armor, low survivability, high life/damage enemies, low ammo counts, opponent bullet sponges, needing to scrounge for ammo/health, environmental damage etc are all things you would most often find in the survival genre. There's pages discussing this a year ago in this thread somewhere, so no point going over it again imo.
 

Armenius

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Doom Eternal put elements from the survival genre into its core game loop. Things like starting off weak, with low-life, low armor, low survivability, high life/damage enemies, low ammo counts, opponent bullet sponges, needing to scrounge for ammo/health, environmental damage etc are all things you would most often find in the survival genre. There's pages discussing this a year ago in this thread somewhere, so no point going over it again imo.
By that metric every game released in at least the last decade must be a survival game.
 

cybereality

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
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The Ancient Gods are some of the best DLC I've played in a while. Not full game length, but if you play both episodes, it's pretty substantial. Well worth it.

Also, I booted up Doom 2016 just to do some benchmarking, and the game is so basic compared to Eternal. Doom Eternal is literally one of the best FPS games ever, maybe even #1.

There are very few games that can get your adrenaline pumping like this game. It is a masterpiece.
 

Drexion

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By that metric every game released in at least the last decade must be a survival game.
The previous Doom games had none of that. You picked up a gun and started blasting without a care in the world.
They borrowed a little too much from the survival genre.
 
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The previous Doom games had none of that. You picked up a gun and started blasting without a care in the world.
They borrowed a little too much from the survival genre.
No they did. You start with crap health no armor and a peashooter than you have to pelt people with. At least here it's full of stupid easy stuff that just stands there for you to pelt. I ran through Eternal face blasting everything and never had to scrounge about. I'm older then I was with the older games but I'm not decrepid yet.
 

cybereality

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Guess I can share this here, I spent almost all day trying to fix this.

Basically I was getting these CPU spikes in Doom Eternal. GPU was fine (about 200 fps) but about every 1 second, the CPU would stutter and have a long frametime (usually around 25ms).

This effectively locked the framerate to a 134 fps cap. I had tried everything I could think of, resetting BIOS, DDU safe mode, new Nvidia driver, disable GSync/HDR/Vsync/etc. Nothing worked.

It turned out that the Xbox One controller I use was connected on Bluetooth. Didn't think this was an issue, but I finally found out when I launched the game with the controller turned off, then it went back to the 200 fps I was expecting.

I happened to have the Xbox dongle, but I was running low on USB ports so I thought Bluetooth would be okay. Big mistake. So in order to run this game at full speed, you need the Xbox dongle for Windows 10.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
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574
Guess I can share this here, I spent almost all day trying to fix this.

Basically I was getting these CPU spikes in Doom Eternal. GPU was fine (about 200 fps) but about every 1 second, the CPU would stutter and have a long frametime (usually around 25ms).

This effectively locked the framerate to a 134 fps cap. I had tried everything I could think of, resetting BIOS, DDU safe mode, new Nvidia driver, disable GSync/HDR/Vsync/etc. Nothing worked.

It turned out that the Xbox One controller I use was connected on Bluetooth. Didn't think this was an issue, but I finally found out when I launched the game with the controller turned off, then it went back to the 200 fps I was expecting.

I happened to have the Xbox dongle, but I was running low on USB ports so I though Bluetooth would be okay. Big mistake. So in order to run this game at full speed, you need the Xbox dongle for Windows 10.

Not shocked as bluetooth has always been nasty, also it's laggy so why use it at all? Personally I have an 8bitdo controller, Xbox1 controller, arcade stick, and a rift at my desk and I only ever wire them up when I am using them.
 

supastar1568

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
453
Guess I can share this here, I spent almost all day trying to fix this.

Basically I was getting these CPU spikes in Doom Eternal. GPU was fine (about 200 fps) but about every 1 second, the CPU would stutter and have a long frametime (usually around 25ms).

This effectively locked the framerate to a 134 fps cap. I had tried everything I could think of, resetting BIOS, DDU safe mode, new Nvidia driver, disable GSync/HDR/Vsync/etc. Nothing worked.

It turned out that the Xbox One controller I use was connected on Bluetooth. Didn't think this was an issue, but I finally found out when I launched the game with the controller turned off, then it went back to the 200 fps I was expecting.

I happened to have the Xbox dongle, but I was running low on USB ports so I though Bluetooth would be okay. Big mistake. So in order to run this game at full speed, you need the Xbox dongle for Windows 10.

Ummm...maybe that's because you are trying to play DOOM with a controller....:confused:

Just kidding. I myself just played thru Ancient Gods Part 1 but will wait for the RTX update before moving onto Part 2.
 

MavericK

Zero Cool
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Sep 2, 2004
Messages
31,173
The game updated for me recently, was that the RTX update or no?

Also, I wish I was as good as the player in that RTX video, holy crap.
 

polonyc2

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I'm glad I haven't played the 2-part DLC yet...it'll be great to do another playthrough with the DLC with ray-tracing enabled...I'm hoping the Season Pass DLC package will be on sale during the upcoming Steam Summer sale
 

cybereality

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Yeah, the DLC is really good and really hard. I had to put it on easy because this one part was impossible.
 

piratepress

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Not a big fan of Eternal and all the jumping puzzles, but I do need to resintall it so I can see how much better it looks with DLSS and Ray Tracing.
 
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