discussing the warez problem

kronchev

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Torgo said:
Sorry, I snipped your explaination for space consideration. I'm still not buying your argument. For most business application software, there are alternatives to pirating for evaluation. Most companies have full evaluation versions of their software, demos, white papers and sales people that are willing to help you make your decision. The gaming industry has many of the same resources. There are game demos, friends, retailers, LAN centers, magazines, web sites all there to help you make the decision. At some point you need to make a decision to buy the game.
.

business apps, youre right. games, youre wrong. there is no demo for doom3, which is the biggest mistake and the source of this debate. my friends area waiting as well. retailers will laugh in your face and offer you no assistance...hint, they dont give a shit. LAN center, wtf is that? none around here i can tell you that. magazines and websites are PAID OFF and will NEVER tell you what they really feel. EVER. reviews are the single least helpful source of information.
 
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Ice Czar

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Loath said:
Warez is like speeding? You're an idiot. You're 15, go masturbate you're not an adult.

the quick way to remove yourself form the [H]ardfourms gentic pool would be to repeat that outburst two more times,
In case you where wondering what it takes to be burnt bread
we take the flaming rule very seriously ;)

PiratePowWow said:
Crap Ice Czar, you were right for locking this thread,

Well it certainly looks like I should have relocked it before I went offline :p
I could have then opened it back up again when it could be supervised, as it was another caught looopie (Methodical)

agent420 said:
I got 20 hours of entertainment out of a $5 tab of acid at a Dead show...

warez is not the only illegal activity :rolleyes:
we will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your easily amused by citric acid :p
(or where joking)
 

Rhys

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If you were a programmer or developer, what would your reaction be to someone who downloaded a warez game instead of paying for it? Wouldn't be pretty would it. What if it's someone in your family working for id?

There are very few justifications for stealing and that's what it is, stealing. Your desire to play the latest video game isn't justification. "But judge, I couldn't afford to buy four games a month", won't hold up in court.

However, I do agree that return policies for software that doesn't work on a system that it's supposed to, do suck. I don't enjoy paying $40+ for a game that just plain sucks. However, that's why I won't buy a game without seeing what others say or that doesn't have a demo. Anything else, I assume the risk.

I certainly don't enjoy the price of the games I buy go up because of piracy. Your getting an illegal copy just raises the prices for the rest of us. Thanks alot.
 

emorphien

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Rhys said:
If you were a programmer or developer, what would your reaction be to someone who downloaded a warez game instead of paying for it? Wouldn't be pretty would it. What if it's someone in your family working for id?

There are very few justifications for stealing and that's what it is, stealing. Your desire to play the latest video game isn't justification. "But judge, I couldn't afford to buy four games a month", won't hold up in court.

However, I do agree that return policies for software that doesn't work on a system that it's supposed to, do suck. I don't enjoy paying $40+ for a game that just plain sucks. However, that's why I won't buy a game without seeing what others say or that doesn't have a demo. Anything else, I assume the risk.

I certainly don't enjoy the price of the games I buy go up because of piracy. Your getting an illegal copy just raises the prices for the rest of us. Thanks alot.
Hence the rogue try-before-you-buy folks.
 

Rhys

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This is why we need to force software developers to make a demo. If we demand it, they'll do it.

I bought FarCry based on the demo. I thought it was excellent. I wasn't disappointed in the full version either.

I returned Unreal Awakening before I opened the package based on the forum comments on their own site.

I've bought and suffered through numerous games that I didn't wait for a demo or comments. My fault, no one elses. However, there a number of gaming companies I won't buy a product from again (but I won't load their games off warez sites either).
 

kronchev

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Rhys said:
If you were a programmer or developer, what would your reaction be to someone who downloaded a warez game instead of paying for it? Wouldn't be pretty would it. What if it's someone in your family working for id?

There are very few justifications for stealing and that's what it is, stealing. Your desire to play the latest video game isn't justification. "But judge, I couldn't afford to buy four games a month", won't hold up in court.

However, I do agree that return policies for software that doesn't work on a system that it's supposed to, do suck. I don't enjoy paying $40+ for a game that just plain sucks. However, that's why I won't buy a game without seeing what others say or that doesn't have a demo. Anything else, I assume the risk.

I certainly don't enjoy the price of the games I buy go up because of piracy. Your getting an illegal copy just raises the prices for the rest of us. Thanks alot.

amazing

first off, if i worked for a software company (and i will), i would ONLY care if people who COULD buy it were instead downloading it. that pisses me off even now. I DONT like people like that. hell I bought doom3 and i really cant afford it, but i CAN, and still eat.

im sorry, but i also WONT take a risk and shell out 50 for something I or my friends havent played. and guess what? the easiest way is to DOWNLOAD it and try it. usually I or one of my friends buys it first since we dont like waiting but thats because we CAN. if you can only affford one game every long while and you want to make it a GOOD game, are you going to think its OK if that person gets hauled into jail for it, while so many other SERIOUS crimes go unpunished? theft is serious when it steals from someone but warezing something to try it does NOT steal from someone. demos suck as in the last few recent demos ive played have NOT been represenative of the full game, and games such as doom3 dont even have a demo.

and if you had been paying attention, game prices have lowered as inflation has risen, and no, pirates do NOT increase the price of anything for anyone. that would assume that the companies were losing money and had to, but obviously they are still making HUGE profits. are they fixing prices? yes they are. are they screwing consumers and using pirates as an excuse? absolutly. are pirates activly forcing higher prices? NO IN THE LEAST.
 

emorphien

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Yah, I doubt warez is having that big an affect. Just like file sharing really hasn't hurt the music industry as much as they want you to think. If a company is losing money and dying its most likely their own damn fault.
 

kronchev

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emorphien said:
Yah, I doubt warez is having that big an affect. Just like file sharing really hasn't hurt the music industry as much as they want you to think. If a company is losing money and dying its most likely their own damn fault.

the record companies have been having declining record sales (yeh still sell several million pop clone cd's yearly) since the 80's and they only recently have had a scapegoat, rather than blaming their shitty music
 

emorphien

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kronchev said:
the record companies have been having declining record sales (yeh still sell several million pop clone cd's yearly) since the 80's and they only recently have had a scapegoat, rather than blaming their shitty music
The RIAA doesn't really represent the little guys. Independent sales have increased dramatically over that same time frame, particularly in the last 5 years as the ability to burn and record and edit has required considerably less investment. The independent labels (non RIAA) are likely making up for whatever slump the RIAA thinks they're having, which is mostly due to price hikes and offering crappy artists.
 
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Ice Czar

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kronchev said:
people calling the government "communism" and "facism" without understanding either of those terms"

well you hit that nail directly on the head :p
then again most people think that America is a democracy too :p
and couldnt tell you what a Republic was if you held a gun to their head

Blackwind said:
While the laws surrounding piracy and warez are questionable at times and excessive, it does not preclude the intent of the law to begin with. Which was to protect the rightful owners of said intellectual property. The End.

for a reasonable period of time before it eventually migrated to the public domain you mean
which has now been altered wholesale to in perpetuity of the owner of the right
(generally a deathless corporation) not the creators lifetime or other period as orignally intended (depending on class of right)
 

HoosierDad

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kronchev said:
amazing

first off, if i worked for a software company (and i will), i would ONLY care if people who COULD buy it were instead downloading it. that pisses me off even now. I DONT like people like that. hell I bought doom3 and i really cant afford it, but i CAN, and still eat.

im sorry, but i also WONT take a risk and shell out 50 for something I or my friends havent played. and guess what? the easiest way is to DOWNLOAD it and try it. usually I or one of my friends buys it first since we dont like waiting but thats because we CAN. if you can only affford one game every long while and you want to make it a GOOD game, are you going to think its OK if that person gets hauled into jail for it, while so many other SERIOUS crimes go unpunished? theft is serious when it steals from someone but warezing something to try it does NOT steal from someone. demos suck as in the last few recent demos ive played have NOT been represenative of the full game, and games such as doom3 dont even have a demo.

and if you had been paying attention, game prices have lowered as inflation has risen, and no, pirates do NOT increase the price of anything for anyone. that would assume that the companies were losing money and had to, but obviously they are still making HUGE profits. are they fixing prices? yes they are. are they screwing consumers and using pirates as an excuse? absolutly. are pirates activly forcing higher prices? NO IN THE LEAST.

So do I understand you to think that because I have the means to purchase a car and you do not that it gives you the right to steal a car off of a dealer's lot while I have to pay for it?

If I am a person that has the ability to pay for it and I download it (illegally), how does that make me any different than the person that downloads it and uses the excuse I don't have the money to pay for it. Did we not break the same law no matter what the reason?



In today's world with the Internet and all of the messages flying around like game reviews, it seems that people can do the research and make the decision wether to spend the $55 for the game or not. If the company releases a demo great if not read the info and make an informed decision.
 

kronchev

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Blackwind said:
John Carmack and Linus Torvalds are two individuals who have a history of long standing support for open source and the technology industry. They deserve what ever monetary fortune is due them.

i agree. john carmack is my hero because he released the source for his games after he stops making money on them, so that ports (zdoom, jdoom) can be made and the game can continue to live on forever. i really admire that and i think its a WONDERFUL stragedy for making money while still supporting a community.
 

kronchev

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HoosierDad said:
So do I understand you to think that because I have the means to purchase a car and you do not that it gives you the right to steal a car off of a dealer's lot while I have to pay for it?

If I am a person that has the ability to pay for it and I download it (illegally), how does that make many any different than the person that downloads it and uses the excuse I don't have the money to pay for it. Did we not break the same law no matter what the reason?

no, you didnt break a law at all. you dont buy software, you buy the license for it. its illegal to download because its assumed youll be playing it, and you are not permitted by law to play it without a license, the same way you are not permitted by law to drive without a license. where software and a car GREATLY differ is software doesnt exist while a car does. you can make infinite copies of a piece of software (space permitting) and it will cost NOTHING, yet you cant do that with a car. what WOULD fit your can analogy would be stealing the software off the shelf of a video game store, since that not only is associated with the license, it is a finite physical entity.

In today's world with the Internet and all of the messages flying around like game reviews, it seems that people can do the research and make the decision wether to spend the $55 for the game or not. If the company releases a demo great if not read the info and make an informed decision.

reviews SUCK. if you base your decisions on reviews youre an IDIOT. Call that a flame, but you really are. the same people who buy games based on reviews are the same people who see movies based on what critics say. both are TERRIBLE ideas. a review is there to present ONE PERSONS opinion and facts about the product, NOT to direct you to buy it or not.
 

Torgo

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Kronchev: I'm glad you understand the pricing of video games. You're point on the demo is still lost on me. Here's what you do. Wait. The demo is coming. That's an option that always there. The price of the game is likely to come down anyway. What's forcing you to have the game now? Again, piracy is no excuse. As you say, you can wait for a friend to get it.

A bit off the subject, if you're not finding friendly retailer, keep looking and give them your business. If you're getting bad service, find a manager and tell him why. That's true with any store with customer reps. Remember, they are representing you -- the customer. Make them do their job or find someone else who will. As for a LAN Center, you might not have one in Princeton, but I found four other centers within 30 minutes. As for printed reviews, I'm sorry you're so jaded and think payola is a problem. It's more of a problem online, but the printed magazines are on base. Besides, there's always reader reviews. Go to alt.games.xxxx and read the comments there, or the forum here. Or any of the hundreds of other forums that have game reviews.

Back on track. Let me address the question of "Don't the feds have anything better to do?" I hear this argument everytime something big happens like Operation Sundevil or Operation Buccaneer happens. Or for that matter, when I watch COPS on television and here the guy without a shirt saying the same thing. Folks, it's a matter of enforcing the law. Whether it's a speeding ticket, a parking ticket, warez, stealing, etc., if you don't enforce it, the law starts to lose meaning. It's a societal issue. Do we want to start selectively choose which laws to enforce? While it is impossible to enforce all laws, all the time, law enforement agencies have to enforce the laws at some time to protect society.

Obviously some laws have higher priorities. Some go through cycles of selective enforcement. (ie speed traps, seat belt laws, and yes -- software piracy). We're actually right in the middle of a cycle now where piracy is being monitored and enforced. Kronchev, I'm not expecting to change your mind on the issue. If anything, I want you to know there are other choices out there and you're not forced by any means to go out and pirate a game.
 

Xrave

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HoosierDad said:
So do I understand you to think that because I have the means to purchase a car and you do not that it gives you the right to steal a car off of a dealer's lot while I have to pay for it?

Technically when you buy a car, they let you drive the exact car you'll be buying (unless you want a different color). If you like it, then you buy it.

Same can be said with warez, you download and try out the exact thing that you'd be purchasing...if you like it, you buy it.
 

HoosierDad

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kronchev said:
no, you didnt break a law at all. you dont buy software, you buy the license for it. its illegal to download because its assumed youll be playing it, and you are not permitted by law to play it without a license, the same way you are not permitted by law to drive without a license. where software and a car GREATLY differ is software doesnt exist while a car does. you can make infinite copies of a piece of software (space permitting) and it will cost NOTHING, yet you cant do that with a car. what WOULD fit your can analogy would be stealing the software off the shelf of a video game store, since that not only is associated with the license, it is a finite physical entity.

Sorry your argument will not hold up. The software license is an asset to the developer in a way that is no different than a car is an asset to a dealer.

You, without the license do not have the right to use the program for whatever reason you think is justified just like I have no right to drive off with the dealerships car when I want to.

No FLAME taken everyone has their rights to their opinions.
 

kronchev

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Torgo said:
Kronchev: I'm glad you understand the pricing of video games. You're point on the demo is still lost on me. Here's what you do. Wait. The demo is coming. That's an option that always there. The price of the game is likely to come down anyway. What's forcing you to have the game now? Again, piracy is no excuse. As you say, you can wait for a friend to get it.

because Ive been waiting for this game for a long time, and in a month, I start back at college, and I will NOT have time to play it. I must get it in now :)

A bit off the subject, if you're not finding friendly retailer, keep looking and give them your business. If you're getting bad service, find a manager and tell him why. That's true with any store with customer reps. Remember, they are representing you -- the customer. Make them do their job or find someone else who will. As for a LAN Center, you might not have one in Princeton, but I found four other centers within 30 minutes. As for printed reviews, I'm sorry you're so jaded and think payola is a problem. It's more of a problem online, but the printed magazines are on base. Besides, there's always reader reviews. Go to alt.games.xxxx and read the comments there, or the forum here. Or any of the hundreds of other forums that have game reviews.

the only retailers around here are the big ones, BB, compusa, EB. the people at EB are great but how are they going to let me preview a game? LAN Center, can you give a link or something, I really dont understand what that even is. Reviews i will NEVER trust, because they are not ME. I have my own opinions and my own feelings on what i like. i need to try something for a WHILE before i decide if i like it or not. there have been instances where ive liked a game (full version) at first, but after a few days, i decided i really didnt like it. as in i deleted it and stopped playing it.

Back on track. Let me address the question of "Don't the feds have anything better to do?" I hear this argument everytime something big happens like Operation Sundevil or Operation Buccaneer happens. Or for that matter, when I watch COPS on television and here the guy without a shirt saying the same thing. Folks, it's a matter of enforcing the law. Whether it's a speeding ticket, a parking ticket, warez, stealing, etc., if you don't enforce it, the law starts to lose meaning. It's a societal issue. Do we want to start selectively choose which laws to enforce? While it is impossible to enforce all laws, all the time, law enforement agencies have to enforce the laws at some time to protect society.

Obviously some laws have higher priorities. Some go through cycles of selective enforcement. (ie speed traps, seat belt laws, and yes -- software piracy). We're actually right in the middle of a cycle now where piracy is being monitored and enforced. Kronchev, I'm not expecting to change your mind on the issue. If anything, I want you to know there are other choices out there and you're not forced by any means to go out and pirate a game.


but warez isnt up there. your local police dep't doesnt care, your state police dep't probabily doesnt either, but its the very well funded dep'ts, like the FBI, that should be doing THE MOST to prevent serious, violent crimes, and is instead wasting their time on white collar crime? yes its still legally a CRIME but its not a CRIME enough that id rather see a few kids thrown in jail while letting terrorists into the country.


I know there are some options but as I said I dont like any of them. A LAN center might have recent-ish games (there are a few places in NYC I know of but in a month I wont be close enough to get to them anyway) but it wont have doom3, right?

all that being said, I bought doom3, a game i havent played, today. i didnt download it, I didnt wait for my friends to play it (i have a few who did however and they said it was amazing), i got it because I am 1) going to make mods and levels for it mostly and 2) i will probabily not play single player much anyway, as in I bought it soley for MP
 

kronchev

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HoosierDad said:
Sorry your argument will not hold up. The software license is an asset to the developer in a way that is no different than a car is an asset to a dealer.

You, without the license do not have the right to use the program for whatever reason you think is justified just like I have no right to drive off with the dealerships car when I want to.

No FLAME taken everyone has their rights to their opinions.


how doesnt my argument hold up? stealing a car is VASTLY different from stealing software over the internet. if you steal a car, someone is PHYSICALLY OUT A CAR, plus that cost CANNOT be gotten back even if you return it, which you can. if you download a game, the developer is out your $60 ONLY UNTIL YOU DECIDE TO BUY IT. the developer NEVER loses money from someone downloading it, they lose the possibility of someone paying for it UNTIL THE PERSON DOES
 

HoosierDad

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kronchev said:
how doesnt my argument hold up? stealing a car is VASTLY different from stealing software over the internet. if you steal a car, someone is PHYSICALLY OUT A CAR, plus that cost CANNOT be gotten back even if you return it, which you can. if you download a game, the developer is out your $60 ONLY UNTIL YOU DECIDE TO BUY IT. the developer NEVER loses money from someone downloading it, they lose the possibility of someone paying for it UNTIL THE PERSON DOES

Sorry, you still lose. The software license asset and the programs functions belong to the company and without a license to run it on a computer you have no rights . You do not have the right to run it and watch the pretty pixels turn off and on as you blow away creatures or you get blown apart yourself.

It is not your property until you buy the license.

If I followed your reasoning, nothing would be illegal because I can think my way out of any legallity because I can think of an excuse for anything.
 

emorphien

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Torgo said:
As for printed reviews, I'm sorry you're so jaded and think payola is a problem. It's more of a problem online, but the printed magazines are on base.
Lol. That's about all I have to say. Perhaps the gaming magazines aren't as bad as camera mags are now, but they're still just glorified ads.

As far as user reviews, that's good, if you know the reviewer. The problem is anyone can write a review, and common sense isn't all that common, the average IQ is 100 and you never know who's writing that review unless its a reputable source. But most of those reputable gaming sites have a very different interest in games than I do. It's their profession, it's my entertainment.
 

kronchev

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HoosierDad said:
Sorry, you still lose. The software license asset and the programs functions belong to the company and without a license to run it on a computer you have no rights . You do not have the right to run it and watch the pretty pixels turn off and on as you blow away creatures or you get blown apart yourself.

It is not your property until you buy the license.

If I followed your reasoning, nothing would be illegal because I can think my way out of any legallity because I can think of an excuse for anything.

CARS EXIST

SOFTWARE DOES NOT EXIST

You do NOT steal software, you OPERATE WITHOUT A LICENSE
 

HoosierDad

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kronchev said:
CARS EXIST

SOFTWARE DOES NOT EXIST

You do NOT steal software, you OPERATE WITHOUT A LICENSE

OK, is operating software without a license stealing or not?
 

kronchev

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HoosierDad said:
OK, is operating software without a license stealing or not?


Yes, it is. you are running software without a license, so it is considering warez.
 

HoosierDad

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kronchev said:
Yes, it is. you are running software without a license, so it is considering warez.

So obtaining software via the warez method is illegal just like stealing a car?
 

emorphien

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If using software without a license is stealing, why isn't operating a car without a license considered stealing? :confused:
 

kronchev

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HoosierDad said:
So obtaining software via the warez method is illegal just like stealing a car?

I confused myself

Running software without a license is illegal. You cant STEAL software. that is my whole point. if software its "warez' that means it is downloaded for the pupose of running without a legal license. you cant steal something that doesnt exist
 

HoosierDad

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emorphien said:
If using software without a license is stealing, why isn't operating a car without a license considered stealing? :confused:

If you asked Big Brother, it probably is considered stealing as you do not have the right to do it as you are not licensed to do so.
 

archevilangel

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We pay $9 for 2 hour movies, why wouldn't we pay $55 for 20 hour games?(Yeah I know the obvious to that, why pay $9 for 2 hour movies?, for me it's simple it keeps me entertained for 2 hours)
 

Xrave

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kronchev said:
I confused myself

Running software without a license is illegal. You cant STEAL software. that is my whole point. if software its "warez' that means it is downloaded for the pupose of running without a legal license. you cant steal something that doesnt exist

The CD that contains the software is what you're "stealing" although not in CD form.
 

Dr.LaRd

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ok, i'm sorry, but this is my view....i see absolutly nothing wrong with me downloading a copy of a game, for my personal use, nobody else benefitting from me doing it (besides the makers of blank cds :D ) for my own personal trial....

If i don't like the game, where is the loss? really? what would be the difference if they had the game on demo at a local retail store and i played it there? or if i played it at a friends house, I DIDN'T PAY to play it there. And the copy the store got was free (albeit not "pirated", but it's a promo tool, not exactly the same thing, but an example) if i didn't like it, i wouldn't buy it and no one would complain.

If i download something and play it in my personal space, on my PERSONAL computer (which i bought BEFORE i moved out, and not all at once mind you so don't attack me because i have a computer that is able to play games....).

I find myself an educated person, I have 2 certifications as a tech, and i don't even break 20,000 a year....if i'm lucky 15,000.... (not due to my skill level, due to the piss-poor economy of eastern canada) i have no way of buying anything like that without testing it first. If one person says "well thats too bad, if you can't afford it you can't play it"....well thats too bad, i'll download it and be able to sleep good at night knowing i didn't waste my HARD EARNED MONEY on a game that i didn't like. I'm sorry, reviews aren't the best for games, no one out there has my exact same tastes, so i could read all the reviews i wanted and not get any satisfaction out of a game I PLAY.

I'm sorry if anyone else doesn't feel my point of view isn't stealing i'm really not here to defend it....but i have my own thoughts and feelings on the matter, and i am not a criminal and i will refuse to say so until the day i die. There was no loss by me playing a copy of a game, no one is going to go hungry like me because i downloaded a game, or if my friends who are in the same boat downloaded a game....I BUY WHAT I LIKE WHEN I CAN....and thats that.
 

Blackwind

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kronchev said:
I confused myself

Running software without a license is illegal. You cant STEAL software. that is my whole point. if software its "warez' that means it is downloaded for the pupose of running without a legal license. you cant steal something that doesnt exist

Uh YES...you can. :rolleyes:


It's called intellectual property. While it is an intangible it does not make it any less valuable. If you have intellectual property in your possession that you have not purchased and obtained license for then YES.....you are stealing that software.
 

Tazman2

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Blackwind said:
Uh YES...you can. :rolleyes:


It's called intellectual property. While it is not tangible it does not make it any less valuable. If you have intellectual property in your possession that you have not purchased and obtained license for then YES.....you are stealing that software.

But yet its okay to sell secret intellectual property to other countrys? Alrighty then. If game piracy really had a huge impact then we wouldn't be seeing things like "over a million copies sold" or "the most copies sold of any game this year", etc. And oh yeah they'd be out of business. The economy sucks right now and nobody has money why do you think crime is through the roof especially bank robberies, etc? Just HAPPEND around the same time that the stock market is shit? If the game is good and you can afford it then buy it. If people choose not to guess what u can't make them buy it. Just like the RIAA tryed to pull the "cd sales are down so thus piracy must be up and thats why we are doing what we are doing" yet that was around the same time the economy went to shit as well. Its all excuses to sue money and fattin up peoples pockets such as lawyers, etc. People go to jail all the time for piracy, murder, etc. Yet does that SOLVE the problem? NO. Does giving out tickets reduce accidents? NO. Yet its all used as a excuse to do those things such as give out tickets for dumb bs to "make things better" yet it doesn't do jack unless u believe made up stats funded by governments or whatever company is trying to prove something. Money talks and sheep (dumb people) believe everything they hear on the news which is ding ding government owned. Wow so many coincedences! :eek:
 

HoosierDad

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 3, 2002
Messages
158
Tazman2 said:
But yet its okay to sell secret intellectual property to other countrys? Alrighty then. If game piracy really had a huge impact then we wouldn't be seeing things like "over a million copies sold" or "the most copies sold of any game this year", etc. And oh yeah they'd be out of business. The economy sucks right now and nobody has money why do you think crime is through the roof especially bank robberies, etc? Just HAPPEND around the same time that the stock market is shit? If the game is good and you can afford it then buy it. If people choose not to guess what u can't make them buy it. Just like the RIAA tryed to pull the "cd sales are down so thus piracy must be up and thats why we are doing what we are doing" yet that was around the same time the economy went to shit as well. Its all excuses to sue money and fattin up peoples pockets such as lawyers, etc. People go to jail all the time for piracy, murder, etc. Yet does that SOLVE the problem? NO. Does giving out tickets reduce accidents? NO. Yet its all used as a excuse to do those things such as give out tickets for dumb bs to "make things better" yet it doesn't do jack unless u believe made up stats funded by governments or whatever company is trying to prove something. Money talks and sheep (dumb people) believe everything they hear on the news which is ding ding government owned. Wow so many coincedences! :eek:

Once again, excuses are being made for breaking the law. :rolleyes:

If someone jumps off a cliff, are you going to do that too?
 

Blackwind

Gawd
Joined
Sep 26, 2001
Messages
808
Dr.LaRd said:
ok, i'm sorry, but this is my view....i see absolutly nothing wrong with me downloading a copy of a game, for my personal use, nobody else benefitting from me doing it (besides the makers of blank cds :D ) for my own personal trial....

If i don't like the game, where is the loss? really? what would be the difference if they had the game on demo at a local retail store and i played it there? or if i played it at a friends house, I DIDN'T PAY to play it there. And the copy the store got was free (albeit not "pirated", but it's a promo tool, not exactly the same thing, but an example) if i didn't like it, i wouldn't buy it and no one would complain.

If i download something and play it in my personal space, on my PERSONAL computer (which i bought BEFORE i moved out, and not all at once mind you so don't attack me because i have a computer that is able to play games....).

I find myself an educated person, I have 2 certifications as a tech, and i don't even break 20,000 a year....if i'm lucky 15,000.... (not due to my skill level, due to the piss-poor economy of eastern canada) i have no way of buying anything like that without testing it first. If one person says "well thats too bad, if you can't afford it you can't play it"....well thats too bad, i'll download it and be able to sleep good at night knowing i didn't waste my HARD EARNED MONEY on a game that i didn't like. I'm sorry, reviews aren't the best for games, no one out there has my exact same tastes, so i could read all the reviews i wanted and not get any satisfaction out of a game I PLAY.

I'm sorry if anyone else doesn't feel my point of view isn't stealing i'm really not here to defend it....but i have my own thoughts and feelings on the matter, and i am not a criminal and i will refuse to say so until the day i die. There was no loss by me playing a copy of a game, no one is going to go hungry like me because i downloaded a game, or if my friends who are in the same boat downloaded a game....I BUY WHAT I LIKE WHEN I CAN....and thats that.

Unfortunately this line of thinking is flawed from the start. While you may desire to believe you are not a criminal and will refuse to state so till the day you die, it does not change the fact you are :

A) Breaking the law.
B) Have in your possession intellectual property that does not belong to you.
C) Do not have the inherent right to entertainment.

It is also this line of thinking that leads very well educated, decent and good people to make BAD choices.

It’s called greed.

This is also why you have incidents such as Enron, MCI and the list goes on.

Tazman2 said:
But yet its okay to sell secret intellectual property to other countrys? Alrighty then. If game piracy really had a huge impact then we wouldn't be seeing things like "over a million copies sold" or "the most copies sold of any game this year", etc. And oh yeah they'd be out of business. The economy sucks right now and nobody has money why do you think crime is through the roof especially bank robberies, etc? Just HAPPEND around the same time that the stock market is shit? If the game is good and you can afford it then buy it. If people choose not to guess what u can't make them buy it. Just like the RIAA tryed to pull the "cd sales are down so thus piracy must be up and thats why we are doing what we are doing" yet that was around the same time the economy went to shit as well. Its all excuses to sue money and fattin up peoples pockets such as lawyers, etc. People go to jail all the time for piracy, murder, etc. Yet does that SOLVE the problem? NO. Does giving out tickets reduce accidents? NO. Yet its all used as a excuse to do those things such as give out tickets for dumb bs to "make things better" yet it doesn't do jack unless u believe made up stats funded by governments or whatever company is trying to prove something. Money talks and sheep (dumb people) believe everything they hear on the news which is ding ding government owned. Wow so many coincedences! :eek:

No, it is not “OK” to sell secret intellectual property to other countries. This would be you placing words in my mouth. If it were “OK”…you would not see these very people and organizations prosecuted now would you? It’s called commercial espionage. Because people do it does not make it ok. I’m going to simply ignore the fact you do not understand business and the impact of piracy with your grossly inaccurate statements of:

Tazman2 said:
If game piracy really had a huge impact then we wouldn't be seeing things like "over a million copies sold" or "the most copies sold of any game this year", etc. And oh yeah they'd be out of business.

Whether you care to admit the impact or not…there is impact, and yes, it is significant. This does not support your theory in the least of “yeah, they’d be out of business.” Need an example?

Microsoft.

The most pirated software company on the planet.

Piracy is piracy. Stealing is stealing. It’s black and white. The judical system and many companies do however do their best to work with “offenders” and have entire programs built around their efforts to curb these very acts of piracy. Again….Microsoft is a great example.

ScretHate said:
Teach kids at an early age, the value of morality and ethics, and most importantly, a sense of self-respect derived from personal honor. People need to learn that there are ideals higher than money and infinitely more valuable.

THIS is what many of you apparently failed to learn at a young age or were not instilled with.
 

Tazman2

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 17, 2000
Messages
4,989
Blackwind said:
Whether you care to admit the impact or not…there is impact, and yes, it is significant. This does not support your theory in the least of “yeah, they’d be out of business.” Need an example?

Microsoft.

The most pirated software company on the planet.

Piracy is piracy. Stealing is stealing. It’s black and white. The judical system and many companies do however do their best to work with “offenders” and have entire programs built around their efforts to curb these very acts of piracy. Again….Microsoft is a great example.

Okay lets take your example then. If the impact is so significant then how can Microsoft still be a monopoly and have more money then anybody else? And also the biggest bs is that #s that companys loose from piracy. When they get their "figures" its under the assumption that each and EVERY one of those are lost sales which is not true. Its inflated by atleast 75% with bs because of that assumption.
 

Niartov

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 1, 2004
Messages
97
Originally Posted by emorphien
Yah, I doubt warez is having that big an affect. Just like file sharing really hasn't hurt the music industry as much as they want you to think. If a company is losing money and dying its most likely their own damn fault.


found this link and this one

The good new is that piracy appears to be going down, but still 20 - 30% is not healthy. If you think about it $11 - $16.50 of that is going to those stolen copies.
 

Tazman2

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 17, 2000
Messages
4,989
Niartov said:
found this link and this one

The good new is that piracy appears to be going down, but still 20 - 30% is not healthy. If you think about it $11 - $16.50 of that is going to those stolen copies.

But again thats assuming each and every one would be bought which research makes it seem that way which is bs.
 
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