Dell U2412M

sonic_blue

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A lot of Windows apps, including Photoshop (I believe) will default to sRGB when handling un-tagged images, OR it will simply apply the current profile's color space to it unless you tell it not to.

That's why I disabled all colour profiling in Windows and Photoshop because I don't want them doing that :)
 

flwolf

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403
I don't see how anyone can say this monitor is bad for movies. I've watched several blu-ray movies and they all looked perfect. Zero problems.
 

bensen

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Just ordered from Canada. Upgrading from a Samsung 215TW with S-PVA panel. Hope the E-IPS won't disappoint.

Dell UltraSharp U2412M 24"W Monitor
Subtotal: $358.99
Shipping and Handling: $0.00

Environmental Disposal Fee: $9.00
PST: $0.00
GST/HST: $43.08
Total: $402.07

Estimated Delivery Date
08/25/2011
 

a_rabbit

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Originally Posted by a_rabbit
Just a data point.

I ordered this on Saturday, July 30 -- 2-day air, full price.
They estimated delivery at Friday, Aug 5.
On Aug 4, they changed the ETA to Wed, Aug 10
Today, on Aug 9, they changed the ETA to Monday, August 15.

Way to go Dell!

I just got another automated e-mail ... my order is now delayed until Thursday, August 18. I wonder what's going to happen when midnight August 17 rolls around. :rolleyes:

Has anyone else ordered Dell Home U.S.?

Oh look, it's the 17th, and another automated e-mail. :confused: ETA is now August 23.

I didn't hear from anyone else who ordered from Dell Home U.S. around the same time that's gotten theirs already, so I guess we're all in line.
 

sblantipodi

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
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Just ordered from Canada. Upgrading from a Samsung 215TW with S-PVA panel. Hope the E-IPS won't disappoint.

Dell UltraSharp U2412M 24"W Monitor
Subtotal: $358.99
Shipping and Handling: $0.00

Environmental Disposal Fee: $9.00
PST: $0.00
GST/HST: $43.08
Total: $402.07

Estimated Delivery Date
08/25/2011

don't forget to share your toughts.
 

10e

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Just for doing some homework about S-PVA and C-PVA
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/samsung-sm-f2080-f2380_2.html

C-PVA is clearly cheaper with cheaper value since isn't able to do all rounding because of its slow response time.
At the opposite S-PVA is really good for all rounding.

I'm sorry with all people for pushing this thread off topic, we started by comparing two new monitors with the same price range.

Going back to the topic, what about the U2412M LUT? Is it 8bit?

S-PVA has good pixel response except dark-to-dark transitions where it is the slowest of all three panel types. Later versions improved this.

Samsung's biggest problem was producing a low response, low input lag S-PVA all in one.

In the past people would associate IPS as also having input lag problems, but this was false. IPS never needed as aggressive an overdrive/RTC implementation as PVA/S-PVA in order to have low response time.

Hopefully Samsung have fixed this.

6

10e can you take a picture of the Digital Versus Ghosting test using the same camera settings which you took thePixerPixAn Photos with?
http://img1.lesnumeriques.com/pub/autopromo/Remanence17.html

Digital Versus French Review

I see there is a silver and black version, maybe there are different panels being used in these, or the monitor is just slow with the harsh low contrast colors used in their test which does not really represent real world performance, except for ugly console ports like Left 4 Dead. I double checked PRAD's review and all their response time tests come up with very low reactivity numbers.

Yes, I will post shots later with and without overdrive, and yeah there are a bunch of "strips" of color.

No offence to you NCX, because you just provided the link, but their test is utter $hit. It judders badly and the jerky motion causes response time to look like a mess. It juddered on all three of my displays with or without overdrive.

I don't know if they suffer this when they do their tests and don't express it, but it's junk. I used to like this site, but it's now officially a mess for reviewing screens, ever since Tom's Hardware bought it out/took it over, or whatever they did with it.

Sensationalistic and inaccurate.

EDIT: Here's a good example: http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=88&mo1=878&p1=11538&ma2=38&mo2=631&p2=7352&ph=1

Just look at the "Gaming: Worst Result" in the middle drop down menu to see what I mean.

I have the Acer GD235HZ which is the same as the Acer GD245HQ, just the North American name versus Europe Asia/PAC. It has very good response time, a motion blur threshold that seems very high (ie. things can move that much faster and be clearer than other screens) and this shot makes it look worse than the Dell. WTP (What the Puck?) :)

so, the U2412M is a bad monitor?? Should I return it? I will see ghosting when watching a movie or something? I do not game, all I want is a good monitor for pictures and can handle some OK movies without ghosting, blurring etc..

Unless you are watching horror films on it I highly doubt you will see ghosts. I think it's a good screen for gaming and movie watching, text, web, etc...

That's why I disabled all colour profiling in Windows and Photoshop because I don't want them doing that :)

You can do that, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Photoshop will default to the system profile then, which is usually sRGB.
 
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10e

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They do look very nice on the Ergo tech stand, which arrived from the US today. Please excuse the crappy pics, but:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...AB-k/iE5GVdsNciI/s912/2011-08-17+21.39.57.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...B-s/GfbeQ5A6mbA/s1152/2011-08-17+21.03.06.jpg

Light screens = easy to handle in a triple setup. I'm really super, super happy about how this is looking for me now.

Nice setup FunkDancer from down under!

Looks great. I have the same Galant brown-black desk and I love it. Lot's of real estate for the multi-screen setup.

Kudos.
 

Funkdancer

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Nice setup FunkDancer from down under!

Looks great. I have the same Galant brown-black desk and I love it. Lot's of real estate for the multi-screen setup.

Kudos.

Thanks! Yep I love the Galant too, it's a fantastic desk with lots of real estate (with the rounded corner end bit add on on one side, and a flat section on the other).

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/4439828167_4de40ed257_z.jpg - this is from when I had just set it up, it's nowhere this clean anymore. :)

Unfortunately I did the silliest mistake of trying to adjust height of the setup with the monitors attached (instructions should have a big warning about this, for those lacking such common sense i.e. myself), which damaged a part on the stand (fortunately monitors are still good), however I'm talking with the seller now about getting replacement parts. Whilst this has messed up the perfect vertical alignment, at least I get proper swivel so that I can actually see the side screens without leaning over. :)
 

10e

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Beauty!

I almost have an identical chair too. I have to re-do my wiring and then I'll post a photo by this weekend. I have both sides with the rounded "half-moon" extenders but I might change one to a longer rectangular/square end so I can use my Summera drawer. As it is, it's too close to the middle of where I would sit.

;)

Thanks! Yep I love the Galant too, it's a fantastic desk with lots of real estate (with the rounded corner end bit add on on one side, and a flat section on the other).

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/4439828167_4de40ed257_z.jpg - this is from when I had just set it up, it's nowhere this clean anymore. :)

Unfortunately I did the silliest mistake of trying to adjust height of the setup with the monitors attached (instructions should have a big warning about this, for those lacking such common sense i.e. myself), which damaged a part on the stand (fortunately monitors are still good), however I'm talking with the seller now about getting replacement parts. Whilst this has messed up the perfect vertical alignment, at least I get proper swivel so that I can actually see the side screens without leaning over. :)
 

sonic_blue

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You can do that, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Photoshop will default to the system profile then, which is usually sRGB.

I find that as long as I disable the system colour profile in the windows control panel, and in Photoshop, then I don't get any transformation of my calibrated gamma to the sRGB gamma. It took me hours to even figure out what was going on, in fact I think the Photoshop handling of profiles may be buggy on my system as it was doing all sorts of weird things with the shadow detail. And now, even with profiling disabled, it still likes to change one of the shades in the coloured ramp to something it shouldn't be (at least, compared with the way the test pattern displays in windows picture viewer and Irfanview, which are in agreement with each other on how they display the image).
 
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Use the display profile as working color space in PS. This will effectively disable all CMM transformations. Or use Paint ;-).

Best regards

Denis
 

10e

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Here is what I was talking about:

I turned off overdrive and took a worst case scenario shot. Only adjustment was to upgrade brightness by 15%

Notice the top bars are further away from the bottom bars? That's the judder I was talking about earlier, it's a jerky movement that greatly amplifies photographed motion blur:

This is not typical, it is synthesized and used an as example to show how bad this Lesnumeriques/Digital Versus test is!

odoffjuddershow.jpg


Over drive on, best case:

odonbestu2412m.jpg


Over drive on, worst case:

odonworstresult.jpg


Anyways, there you go. This test blows chunks IMHO.

Go back to Page 11 of this thread to see the better, more accurate PixPerAn test I ran.
 

sblantipodi

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Go back to Page 11 of this thread to see the better, more accurate PixPerAn test I ran.

what you concluded?
is there ghosting on this monitor when watching movies or playing game?
 
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VulcaN

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No there isnt. Why do people keep saying this? Shit. I've used this monitor non-stop since I got it and its fine. Its just the 2408/10 ( I have them all side by side) with lower input lag, no wide gamut and cut back features to lower the price, otherwise its the same mointor we know and love.

Who cares if you can find evidence of ghosting when you take photos with a camera? You can also see evidence of pixel blurring too due to the coating when using a microscope but again, when you use the monitor you dont notice it. You can find a lot wrong with this world if you analyze everything under a microscope, just live life.
 

vapor

n00b
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Jan 22, 2003
Messages
56
I just ordered this monitor for $300 Canadian before tax ($346 after) through a sales rep over the phone. PM me if you want his number.
 

jeremyshaw

[H]F Junkie
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Aug 26, 2009
Messages
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No there isnt. Why do people keep saying this? Shit. I've used this monitor non-stop since I got it and its fine. Its just the 2408/10 ( I have them all side by side) with lower input lag, no wide gamut and cut back features to lower the price, otherwise its the same mointor we know and love.

Who cares if you can find evidence of ghosting when you take photos with a camera? You can also see evidence of pixel blurring too due to the coating when using a microscope but again, when you use the monitor you dont notice it. You can find a lot wrong with this world if you analyze everything under a microscope, just live life.

It's because of a currently banned user :)

But it's banned, now, good riddance, too.
 

vkirienko

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Aug 5, 2011
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Thank you, LOLANG! Ordered for $320 on Aug. 08 and got it on 11. So far I like it. I'm not an photo expert just end-user who could not stand low viewing angles and color shift of HP LA2405wg (actually finally I got used to HP but decided to try something better). When I got Dell and turned it I was not that much excited. Yes, angles are much better, no color shift. But I was questioning my decision to pay extra $150 ... until I plugged in HP back. No regrets now. :)
 

NCX

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It runs just as smoothly as PixerPixAN on my end, other wise I would not use it. If there is judder it is kind of more realstic due to FPS instability in games and film judder. Your best case scenario picture was taken with different settings, try going all manual if possible in the future. A few other sites mention reverse ghosting just like DV, so I am still of the mind that LG is has even worse quality control or is going the panel lottery route given the large differences seen in multiple reviews of this years LED IPS panels (2412/IPS2361V/ML239H/EA232).

Before bashing DV any further I suggest you compare some of their results to PRAD. If you want to talk about crappy sites/inacurate results head on over to Flat Panels HD and see how poor their calibrated results are compared to DV/PRAD, or better yet check out Cnet, a site that does not even bother to post their results.

Also, selecting the best/worst case response time pictures is highly subjective, which you should know from experience, so if DV felt the worst case pic for the Acer was the worst, that is up to them. IMO the "worst case scenario," is BS, because if you watch the moving pictures the response time does not suddenly slow down. The actual result is static which is why you have to take many pictures to see which best matches up with the subjective impression of the image.
 
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sonic_blue

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Use the display profile as working color space in PS. This will effectively disable all CMM transformations. Or use Paint ;-).

Indeed, when I load the calibration profile in Photoshop it does the jiggerypokery with the brightening of shadow detail which tells me it's still converting it to sRGB gamma. I know it's meant to look like that but I don't like it :p

Anyway I don't use any profiles now, just MCW LUT loader sitting in the system tray showing me what's in the LUT at all times. Total control :)
 

sonic_blue

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Oh btw with this whole argument over ghosting I found the U2412 actually has better motion handling and less overdrive trailing than the U2711. The pixperan test shows no visible overdrive trailing on mine (actually there was a touch of red trailing on the flag test but a couple clicks of contrast fixed that) and in Warsow race I never saw any ghosting either. It's pracitcally good as a TN panel (not 120hz obviously).

But why are these IPS not 120hz capable? HDTV's have no trouble with that and some of them are even VA panels and they are pulling 900 lines of motion resolution. But PC VA/IPS still remain incapable of 120hz for some reason, anyone know why?
 

jeremyshaw

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Oh btw with this whole argument over ghosting I found the U2412 actually has better motion handling and less overdrive trailing than the U2711. The pixperan test shows no visible overdrive trailing on mine (actually there was a touch of red trailing on the flag test but a couple clicks of contrast fixed that) and in Warsow race I never saw any ghosting either. It's pracitcally good as a TN panel (not 120hz obviously).

But why are these IPS not 120hz capable? HDTV's have no trouble with that and some of them are even VA panels and they are pulling 900 lines of motion resolution. But PC VA/IPS still remain incapable of 120hz for some reason, anyone know why?

Frame packing/interpolation. Not true 1200p/1080p 120HZ. More like 1080i 120Hz or it's fed by HDMI, and it won't have enough handwidth to handle true 120Hz 1080p anyways.
 

blisk

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So what's the word on these monitors.. good price for the performance of the monitors? Probably was being way too optimistic but I was expecting them for $300 and really was hoping for a $250 price point. Besides the Canadian discount that expired the 16th, anyway to get these cheaper? I ordered the Dell 2407 years ago and called up a customer service rep that gave them to me at a discounted rate. Is that still possible? At $400 I can't imagine buying more than one of these. :\
 
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Nearsite

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Hey guys - I've had this monitor for 3 days now and have played L4D2, SC2, and WoW and I didn't notice any ghosting or anything like that on my monitor, and this is after about 15 hours of playing.

I'm coming from a BenQ V2400W TN panel and the only difference I notice is that the color is better on this monitor; like noticeably better. I'm glad I upgraded to this monitor and I got it for $358.00 shipped to me in CA. The colors are much more vivid and blacks are noticeable darker as well as contrast much better and grays on hardocp look more 'gray'. I used 10e's settings and noticed my pictures look much more realistic and true to life when I view them on this monitor as opposed to the BenQ.
 

sonic_blue

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Frame packing/interpolation. Not true 1200p/1080p 120HZ. More like 1080i 120Hz or it's fed by HDMI, and it won't have enough handwidth to handle true 120Hz 1080p anyways.

Even with frame interpolation on HDTVs they are still handling 1080p @120/240hz around the buses internally and have the pixel response to benefit from the reduced hold time. So why can't a PC monitor do it? Does the larger pixel size has something to do with it?
 

TharkunX

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Aug 8, 2011
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Mine arrived yesterday (very fast delivery - 2 work days).

As others have said, the screen is very bright by default. I changed the settings to those of 10e (thanks again), and the image quality is great!

I've played a few games as well (Battlefield BC2, Crysis 2, ..) and I didn't notice any blurring, and the input lag was inexistant.

The AG coating is visible on white background if you look for it, but I didn't notice it anymore when using the monitor normally (playing games, surfing, ..)
I didn't notice any bleeding or glowing when using it normally, but didn't do specific tests for that yet.

I'm really happy with the monitor, it's at least as good as I had hoped. :)
 
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10e

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what you concluded?
is there ghosting on this monitor when watching movies or playing game?

I report what I see so I reported there was a tiny bit of reverse ghosting on the PixPerAn test. Reverse ghosting is the same as the "corona" effect Prad talks about. It is very slight and can only be seen on tests.

Probably you don't see any ghosting but images may result "blurred", am I wrong?

It's LCD, it will always blur. OLED will likely blur too. Real life blurs as well.


It runs just as smoothly as PixerPixAN on my end, other wise I would not use it. If there is judder it is kind of more realstic due to FPS instability in games and film judder. Your best case scenario picture was taken with different settings, try going all manual if possible in the future. A few other sites mention reverse ghosting just like DV, so I am still of the mind that LG is has even worse quality control or is going the panel lottery route given the large differences seen in multiple reviews of this years LED IPS panels (2412/IPS2361V/ML239H/EA232).

Before bashing DV any further I suggest you compare some of their results to PRAD. If you want to talk about crappy sites/inacurate results head on over to Flat Panels HD and see how poor their calibrated results are compared to DV/PRAD, or better yet check out Cnet, a site that does not even bother to post their results.

Also, selecting the best/worst case response time pictures is highly subjective, which you should know from experience, so if DV felt the worst case pic for the Acer was the worst, that is up to them. IMO the "worst case scenario," is BS, because if you watch the moving pictures the response time does not suddenly slow down. The actual result is static which is why you have to take many pictures to see which best matches up with the subjective impression of the image.

Nope, tried it again last night and this morning, still juddering.

At the end of the day, these response time photos are not definitive nor necessarily 100% accurate. Without having the camera shutter sync'd to each and every frame "pulse" it's going to cause variations. Out of all the shots I got with overdrive on, most were closer to best case than worst case.

My example with DV and the GD235HZ is simply that, even with a monitor with exemplary/class-leading response time, a camera and animated sequence will still show blurring and ghosting.

No, the camera was set to the same settings for each picture. It was in manual mode (M on the rotary dial). The EXIF tag shows each photo is at 1/100 shutter speed.

I don't see a panel lottery with the U2412M. Dell contracts LG for a panel and LG provides it. I have had very few issues with LG IPS panel quality control. The U2412M panel I have is good quality, my NECs (though my 26" needed an RMA for some "green matrix" stuck pixels) and was RMA'd for me instantly and I ended up with a near perfect panel. My 24" NEC is top-notch in terms of panel quality, if not the best I've ever seen.

My Dell 2005FPW purchased December 2005 is still around, alive, kicking and pretty much as perfect as it was on purchase. That was my first purchased IPS panel. It cost me $200.00 more than the U2412M back then, on sale!

We have to remember review samples travel from place to place, can get bashed around, get shaken during shipping and generally abused, which may account for differences.

For the U2412M, Prad gave it quite a good score in responsiveness. They alter and refine their test practices periodically so I trust them more than DV or any other review site. CNet doesn't do reviews. They are junk, worse than DV, FlatPanelsHD, TFTCentral or Prad by a long-shot. To me, Prad is the golden standard of reviews. I'd say the only thing they don't explicitly report on as much any more is contrast ratio, which used to get more attention from them in the past.

They also have the best equipment. TFTCentral finally started using the I1 Pro Spectrophotometer to report on color quality. The Lacie Blue Eye/I1D2 combination is not as good as it used to be with LED and WCG screens. It is only really good for standard gamut CCFL and black/white luminance testing. My other question (based on the Dry Creek info Snowdog posted a while back) is if Lacie calibrates the sensor from X-rite or is it prone to errors like the regular off-the-shelf units.

I'm thinking of trying out a newer Spyder 3 to see how that works with LED/WCG versus my I1D2 from the Lacie package and my "GammaComp MD" sensor which is NEC's custom version.

Subjectively I have not had any response time issues/concerns about the U2412M. As I say above I view and report. I have no problem criticizing a screen for issues and have no reason to ever defend my purchases.

My reason for criticizing DV is because they are making a big deal about response time with inaccurate testing, similar to their input lag test. That's why I used SMTT and a VGA splitter to test versus a CRT so I have absolutely no question on whether or not the CRT and LCD are "matching" frames when they spew 'em out.

Sorry for the long post, but to me, testing with consumer equipment can only go so far.
 

wagoo

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Just took the plunge on 3x U2412M from Dell Switzerland for 1018 CHF (~339 CHF per screen, or around 426 USD).

List price here is 430 CHF (540 USD) so this was a better deal than it may sound. :) The ZR24W is about 400 CHF for example (or 600 from HP direct!)

Calling them up really made a big difference. Delivery is estimated for around the end of the month. If anyone looking to purchase in Switzerland wants me to pass the contact I used along, I'd be happy to do so.

I'll be putting them in the middle of a 5x1P along with Dell 2405FPW and BenQ FP241W.

A special thanks to 10e for all the excellent feedback he gave us all after receiving his unit!
 

10e

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seemed like they have packed up shop and are making the same arguments over at the overclock forums

And going even further by getting into an argument with a moderator right away. Another great start for "it".

Just took the plunge on 3x U2412M from Dell Switzerland for 1018 CHF (~339 CHF per screen, or around 426 USD).

List price here is 430 CHF (540 USD) so this was a better deal than it may sound. :) The ZR24W is about 400 CHF for example (or 600 from HP direct!)

Calling them up really made a big difference. Delivery is estimated for around the end of the month. If anyone looking to purchase in Switzerland wants me to pass the contact I used along, I'd be happy to do so.

I'll be putting them in the middle of a 5x1P along with Dell 2405FPW and BenQ FP241W.

A special thanks to 10e for all the excellent feedback he gave us all after receiving his unit!

Cheers and good luck with your purchase. I hope they turn out to be as good as you thought, and let us know what your impressions are when you get the three new screens settled in!
 

Dok-

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Aug 18, 2011
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I just got mine, but.. what do you think from these photos:

a bit distance
a closer look

Based on your images 10e, your screen & panel looks perfect. I used your color settings for these shots (only with the screens base 75/75 Brightness/Contrast, so that they would even somehow 'compare').

Im not sure if it should look like this. :rolleyes:
 

danbanger

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Are you talking about the backlight bleeding at the edges? Also is your picture accurate to what it looks like to you?
 
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Anyone uses this monitor with a MAC? How can I calibrate this. Does OSX uses the same gamma etc? Any help on this would be great. Thank you
 

Dok-

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Are you talking about the backlight bleeding at the edges? Also is your picture accurate to what it looks like to you?

So its backlight bleed? This cant IPS-glow right? Because its not orange or violet-bluish, and its basically almost the same from any distance.

I only have this basic Ixus-digi, Im not sure if I can get much better photos with it.. I cant really capture them as accurately I would like. They were taken in almost totally dark room. But I think they still show quite well what I am seeing. The resizing might "punch out" the glow/bleed more than you could see watching the actual screen.

Im just a bit lost here, because I have read this thread and also looked at some reviews with images. And they seem really good, almost perfect when compared.

Edit:
Here is a larger photo taken in a lightly lit room. Although this shot (for some reason) managed to capture the actual light leakage/clouding better, it leaves some of the glowing out (as seen on this image). So I am guessing this panel is faulty.. :confused:
 
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flwolf

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Jun 13, 2003
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403
Anyone uses this monitor with a MAC? How can I calibrate this. Does OSX uses the same gamma etc? Any help on this would be great. Thank you

Using it on my hackintosh. To me, the colors look better when the monitor is set to PC instead of Mac.

I tried calibrating with a Spyder 3 but it never gave me results that I liked. I'm simply using 10e's settings now and it looks great.
 

alienate

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Sep 15, 2010
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So its backlight bleed? This cant IPS-glow right? Because its not orange or violet-bluish, and its basically almost the same from any distance.

I only have this basic Ixus-digi, Im not sure if I can get much better photos with it.. I cant really capture them as accurately I would like. They were taken in almost totally dark room. But I think they still show quite well what I am seeing. The resizing might "punch out" the glow/bleed more than you could see watching the actual screen.

Im just a bit lost here, because I have read this thread and also looked at some reviews with images. And they seem really good, almost perfect when compared.

Edit:
Here is a larger photo taken in a lightly lit room. Although this shot (for some reason) managed to capture the actual light leakage/clouding better, it leaves some of the glowing out (as seen on this image). So I am guessing this panel is faulty.. :confused:

The left side looks like traditional IPS glow. e-ips glow is generally white. The right side corners seem to have some back light bleed mixed in but its not terrible. Dell QA is not the greatest so you are not guaranteed to get a panel with no bleed on a replacement.
 

sklent

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Aug 18, 2011
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hey any of you fine people, that can post some good calibration numbers for this nice screen ?
I am pretty new at setting up screens, so just the easy to do once :)
 
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