Deathloop (Arkane Studios)

ghostwich

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so 9.7 then
LOL not even close. I'm a big fan of Arkane games. But Deathloop has way too many misses.
Is it easy to miss sidequests due to the nature of the game? I always do all side quests (except repeating fetch quests types) in games. Or is it fairly obvious you're about to lock yourself out of them if you progress further?
Well, given that the day loops, you'd only really lock yourself out of a sidequest that you would have to "set up" the following day's loop. So let's say a side quest requires you to complete objective A in one zone at morning, and then B in a different zone in the afternoon, before "unlocking" C in the evening. You'd have to do all steps in sequence for a few side quests. If you mess up B, then you have to loop back and do objective A again, etc. So it's not that bad... but trying to do all side quests can give you a bit a Groundhog's Day feeling (good or bad).
 

Mchart

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Yeah, I’d rate it lowest of the three. It could have been the best, but they needed more difficulty/randomization like mooncrash. After a few cycles the game generally starts to turn into a slog, and you know exactly where everything will be. The poor AI really doesn’t help. Half the time they seem to get caught on objects running in place. A “souls like” game needs to be difficult to keep people entertained.
 

Q-BZ

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Dishonored 2 is a masterpiece and personal classic for me. The entire series as a whole is.

This isn't.

I can sympathize with the "Mooncrash did some of this better" arguments, too. That being said there is a lot done well in this game and I consider it quite solid. I have no regrets about getting it and I've enjoyed it. If it has the name Arkane on it, it's not going to disappoint ultimately. I, too, would rank this the "lowest of the three."
 

Domingo

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I'm still in the early'ish stages of Deathloop and I think the 10/10 stuff is absurd, too. I'd say it's a solid B (somewhere between 80-85% seems fair). Saying it's nearly perfect just seems like you haven't played enough games or you're weighing good/bad things in a very weird way. So far I've enjoyed both Dishonored games and Prey more. That said, I wouldn't say this game is in any way disappointing. It's just different and I consider those games to be classics. I don't think I'll even remember this game in a few years.
 

Flogger23m

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I don't like rouge likes in general (but Deathloop seems to handle it a bit differently). How does Mooncrash compare? I completely forgot about that probably because I don't like the concept of starting over when dying and resetting progress. So I never played it.
 

ghostwich

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I don't like rouge likes in general (but Deathloop seems to handle it a bit differently). How does Mooncrash compare? I completely forgot about that probably because I don't like the concept of starting over when dying and resetting progress. So I never played it.
It's more of a rogue-like which means random luck is definitely a factor. The "tutorial" of the game is a series of somewhat-unwinnable situations until you unlock all characters (which in turn, unlocks the real winning/ending scenario). The game is not for everyone and will not hold your hand.
 

ghostwich

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I got the Clean-ish Hands achievement and it was difficult. I cannot say that it was fun.

I also did the other ending, got the last Legendary weapon, and I am guessing maybe 95% done. I am putting this game away.
 
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Flogger23m

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Seems like there is a bit of a noticeable stuttering, using the latest non-beta build. When I use ray tracing for ambient occlusion it isn't there although my frame rates are lower. When I use HBAO+ the stutter seems a lot more notable to the point I am thinking of turning ray tracing back on.
 

Domingo

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For me, the beta fixed my stuttering issues when looking around. Panning around is smooth. However the game still looks like the world is shaking when I move around. That's with head bob turned off. The weird thing is, it's isolated to objects like desks, chairs, boxes, and 3D objects placed in the environment. The sky, rocks, etc. don't shake. I've gotten used to it, but it's still weird and occasionally distracting.
 

Flogger23m

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For me, the beta fixed my stuttering issues when looking around. Panning around is smooth. However the game still looks like the world is shaking when I move around. That's with head bob turned off. The weird thing is, it's isolated to objects like desks, chairs, boxes, and 3D objects placed in the environment. The sky, rocks, etc. don't shake. I've gotten used to it, but it's still weird and occasionally distracting.

For me it is a micro stutter every few seconds. I think I figured it out. I have an RTX 3070 and I am getting VRAM limit warnings in game. Ray tracing performance uses less VRAM than HBAO+ according to the graphics settings. It is below the limit but close. I am not sure if the game actually uses that much VRAM... because it seems like a lot.
 

Domingo

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For me it is a micro stutter every few seconds. I think I figured it out. I have an RTX 3070 and I am getting VRAM limit warnings in game. Ray tracing performance uses less VRAM than HBAO+ according to the graphics settings. It is below the limit but close. I am not sure if the game actually uses that much VRAM... because it seems like a lot.
I have HBAO+ turned on and actually haven't messed with the visual settings since the beta patch. Since I have dynamic resolution enabled, I might try turning both RT settings back on and see what happens. For all I know one of those settings is what's causing the shake.
 

Flogger23m

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I have HBAO+ turned on and actually haven't messed with the visual settings since the beta patch. Since I have dynamic resolution enabled, I might try turning both RT settings back on and see what happens. For all I know one of those settings is what's causing the shake.

Seems like most settings aside from textures, resolution and AA type have little effect on VRAM. Looks like unless I turn the settings way down I might not get rid of the stutters, assuming I am hitting a VRAM wall. Seems more like an optimization issue, but also a reason why I thought the 3070 coming with 8GB of VRAM for the price was a bit lame.

Had one crash, which given the nature of how progress saved isn't acceptable. Hoping it was a one off thing. This is the error I received:
access violation crash.

All that aside, so far I haven't been able to get into the game. Hoping it picks up later.

Any real notable change ray tracing makes is on the weapons. You can see it in other places, but in actual gameplay you won't notice it. This screen shot should be with all RT settings on max:

Deathloop Screenshot 2021.10.04 - 14.12.37.50.png
 

Domingo

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I tinkered around with RT for a couple minutes and via dynamic resolution, I'd say the visual quality suffered. I don't think it knocked me all the way down to 1080p in open areas, but I bet it wasn't far. In closed spaces it looked quite good, though. I have no plans to stick with it either way. The weird shake is also still there. It's weird how that comes and goes and the intensity varies.

When I was messing around with settings, someone invaded and absolutely mauled me. Guess I have to be wary of that. I also noticed that the hidden 2 golden guns don't appear to be in the same place that they were in day 1. I'm not exactly sure how the days and times work, but those took a while to get but were awesome. I'd like to get them again.
 

Q-BZ

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I got the Clean-ish Hands achievement and it was difficult. I cannot say that it was fun.

I also did the other ending, got the last Legendary weapon, and I am guessing maybe 95% done. I am putting this game away.

I finished the game yesterday and mostly came to where you did and I, too, am finished with it. I liked it. It's polished. It's Arkane but for me personally, it's not going to have the "come back and visit" value that the Dishonored games and Prey do. I am honestly sure when...or if... I'll ever replay this.

I'd probably give it a solid 8/10 overall.
 

ghostwich

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I finished the game yesterday and mostly came to where you did and I, too, am finished with it. I liked it. It's polished. It's Arkane but for me personally, it's not going to have the "come back and visit" value that the Dishonored games and Prey do. I am honestly sure when...or if... I'll ever replay this.

I'd probably give it a solid 8/10 overall.
You guys are far too kind! I like this game and the devs, but this is a borderline 5/10 from me.

With the money thrown at this game's advertising, etc., I would not be surprised by a DLC campaign of some kind. Zenimax is greedy so I assume it would cost money.
 
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supastar1568

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I'm about 18 hours into the campaign and haven't been able to equip any weapon trinkets since the game crashes as soon as I try to assign one to a slot. So I've basically been playing without any trinkets.

Also, I'm starting to get more crashes during gameplay as well, so I'm going to hold off on progressing further in the campaign until a patch (hopefully).

However, in the meantime I've been having a blast playing/stalking as Julianna... ;)
 

Q-BZ

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You guys are far too kind! I like this game and the devs, but this is a borderline 5/10 from me.

With the money thrown at this game's advertising, etc., I would not be surprised by a DLC campaign of some kind. Zenimax is greedy so I assume it would cost money.

I told you all upfront I had a healthy Arkane fanboy bias going for me. LOL. ;)

Dang 5? Yikes. Maybe somewhere between the two of us. I felt like this had moments of brilliance in it and I got what I wanted out of it. It probably helped that I went in with fairly dismal expectations after everything we all discussed leading up to the actual release.

I have no idea where and how all the 10/10 reviews came to be. I'd like to play THAT game.
 

Domingo

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The 10/10 review people are literally forcing themselves to overlook obvious things that could be done better. I get that 10/10 doesn't mean perfect or flawless, but I'm just not sure how anyone can think this game is among the best. At least unless they're giving 10/10's left and right and they have no reference level for good and bad. I think my opinion of it actually decreases the more of it I play. I'm still okay with a 7.5 or maybe an 8, but I can see my eventual opinion falling to a 70%/C.
 

Flogger23m

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I'm leaning on this being a 7.5 at best. Technical issues aside these are my impressions:

- Dumb NPCs.
- The "time loop" mechanic is a gimmick, nothing we have not seen before. It just means you have to watch more needless cutscenes to get back to where you were rather than having a normal time skip function.
- No map.
- Side quests aren't tracked, aside from sometimes an objective marker. They're too ill defined with what you're supposed to do. Seems like they reset once a day passes.
- The no saves, even checkpoint saves, is utterly stupid. It just means you reload the same point more times as mentioned above, so you spend more time watching cutscenes/loading screens.
- Gameplay itself isn't good. Weapons, combat and powers come too slowly thanks to the "loop" mechanic. So what you do have gets old quick, but outside of a few specific ones, everything is lame.
- Horrible menu design.

I've yet to finish it. But the more you play, the more grating the lame design decisions become. People trashed Wolfenstein Youngblood yet praised this game so highly. The differences in approach to mission design and revisting areas after having them reset is fairly similar.
 

Flogger23m

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i'm so upset that some reviewers gave this a 10/10.

Yeah it has so many shortcomings. Like basic explanation of what quests require you to do, or being able to pick up and have a reference of symbols as you travel across the map and try to input them in a randomized, upside down order. Like we can really remember what we save 40-50 minutes ago, while being asked to randomize it. And the lack of a flashlight makes seeing in the dark impossible in some places.
 
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MavericK

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I feel like I said this before, but it seems like a $30 game if anything.
 

Flogger23m

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I feel like I said this before, but it seems like a $30 game if anything.

Well the major problem is just how bad it is at communicating anything to the player. Objectives will be something like "lure him out", but don't tell you that you need to sync three music players scattered around a building. How exactly is the player supposed to figure that out on their own? And that being spotted = instant failure of the mission. And they spawn an NPC that hunts you down and spawns out of thin air, which is a massive bullet sponge.

Problem isn't so much the quality of the game but how incoherent it is.
 
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DPI

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I prefer games that don't hold your hand and tell you exactly where to go, what to do etc...let the player figure things out
Yeah I understood this game for not spoonfeeding the player as a design choice, not a design oversight. Dark Souls also comes to mind here.
 
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Flogger23m

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I prefer games that don't hold your hand and tell you exactly where to go, what to do etc...let the player figure things out

Problem is it is far too vague for many things. And too many quests boil down to constant fast travel and loading screens.

Just a lot of other annoying things like not being able to use more than two powers at once. Just too limiting because generally only 2-3 of them are useful (and one only for one mission). So you kind of end up using 2 powers 90% of the time. Same with weapons. I found an SMG with a suppressor and it makes all other weapons pointless. I got a high end sniper rifle, outfitted it with three high end mods. The SMG is the superior long range weapon. Kind of odd balancing all around. I'm getting a few crashes here and there when trying to equip different weapons mods now as well.

There are worse games, but I'd put this well below Dishonored. And even below Dishonored 2. And probably below Prey. Thoroughly average throughout.

My preference, so far for Arkane games:

Dishonored
Dishonored 2
Prey
Deathloop
Wolfenstein Youngblood <-- though this is much better from a technical standpoint, and even better as a shooter, I didn't care for the story at all
 

Q-BZ

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I'm realizing I have no interest whatsoever in replaying this game. Shy of compelling DLC I really don't care to fire it up again, either.

This is blasphemy practically for me on an Arkane game. I'm used to being eager to replay to try new things and glean more details and so on. While I consider how and why I feel that way I have to revise my score from something like 8 down to a 7.
 

Mchart

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I could see it worth playing again if they release a mooncrash style upgrade that does a really good job of randomizing things and way upping the difficulty.

But I don't see it. For me, the greatest sin with this game is the shit AI which also impacts difficulty.

I'm shocked as to how bad the AI is in a game where you NEED decent AI to keep the player from getting bored.
 
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Flogger23m

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But I don't see it. For me, the greatest sin with this game is the shit AI which also impacts difficulty.

I'm shocked as to how bad the AI is in a game where you NEED decent AI to keep the player from getting bored.

NPCs are pretty dumb and inconsistent with detection. Sometimes I get detected through walls on different floors. Other times I murder their buddies 15 feet away and they still weren't alerted. And then they just all creep out of a door and I keep blasting them away with a shotgun, sometime 8 or so people in a row. Just walk into it.
 
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MavericK

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I could see it worth playing again if they release a mooncrash style upgrade that does a really good job of randomizing things and way upping the difficulty.

I don't see how you could randomize it, the game relies on consistency across runs to be able to figure out the optimal path.
 
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Flogger23m

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I don't see how you could randomize it, the game relies on consistency across runs to be able to figure out the optimal path.

I think he means things like NPC locations. Because once you get the info, you lock them into appearing at certain places all the time. Wenji on the roof, other guy down on the floor in the reception hall, etc. You can have an option after you beat the game for them to be randomized across the map maybe in subsequent loops.
 
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Mchart

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Yeah. Really just mean the NPC's even. As it stands, you play through a couple times and it's a snooze fest as you know exactly where everyone is at. Couple that with the piss poor AI, and it just doesn't hold your attention.
 

harmattan

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It sounds like this is a solid "wait for sale". Is this Arkane's least compelling game, or does that still go to Youngblood?

From what I'm hearing, however, I should really pick up Mooncrash. I just finally finished Prey after having put it down last year -- great game that comes off as a boring FPS/Bioshock clone at first.
 

evhvis

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Only around 8 hours in but the game does become a bit repetitive after a while. First loop or two I used quite a bit of stealth and assassinations but after that I got bored with redoing the same scenarios again and again so just started shooting everything. So far it has been more like a 7/10 or 8/10 for me, but nowhere near what the average reviewer described it as. There are a lot of interesting ideas but would have liked a bit more variety and that how the maps play changed a bit between each day on the same time setting or that there were more "loops" to break so the settings would change more after a few hours.
 

Flogger23m

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It sounds like this is a solid "wait for sale". Is this Arkane's least compelling game, or does that still go to Youngblood?

From what I'm hearing, however, I should really pick up Mooncrash. I just finally finished Prey after having put it down last year -- great game that comes off as a boring FPS/Bioshock clone at first.

I'd probably put this over Youngblood, but I didn't find that terrible. I'd rank them this way:

Dishonored
Dishonored 2
Prey
Dishonored Death of the Outsider
Deathloop
Youngblood

Deathloop didn't grab me as spectacular in any way. I think the power balancing and design wasn't very good. Some powers were essentially useless in practicality and you received them and upgrades too late in the game. I can see why the game was pushed back. It just wasn't as fine tuned as Dishonored when it came to rounding out the gameplay. It wasn't a bad game though. I'll put it up there in the average category. It is worth playing it just isn't anything special.
 
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Domingo

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I find that I have to be in a particular state of mind to play Deathloop. With some of their other titles, I could marathon play them for hours on end. Especially Prey and D1. Not so much this time. It's good for quick burst play and you can luckily knock out certain objectives in 10-15 minutes. I kinda miss having a game where I'm moving toward an objective rather than a "perfect run" though.
 
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