Current 43" 4K options?

Kdawg

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 12, 2017
Messages
1,116
43" is such a neglected category, which no company does well, or is overpriced.

There isn't even a fuckin OLED in this size.

I think computer-worthy 43" will become extinct soon, and we'll have to move up to 49-50" to find anything decent.
 

nameBrandon

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 4, 2012
Messages
130
Got the 49" MU6500. I much prefer this VA panel over the 43 MU6300. Blacks are so much darker. It was a PITA to calibrate, the SpyderPro software had no clue what was going on, but DisplayCal sorted it out after 45 minutes of chugging along. It's big, but not gigantic, the curve helps a bit with the panel size. 49" is a good size for a desktop monitor. Definitely wouldn't go any bigger though.

Surprisingly, I really can't tell much difference between a BGR panel and an RGB panel w.r.t OS X font smoothing. I think that issue is really over-blown.

Now to see if I can sell the MU6300 locally instead of boxing it all up again and shipping it back to Amazon. Hoping I have good luck since I got it for super cheap and just looking to get my money back.
 

Kdawg

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 12, 2017
Messages
1,116
Got the 49" MU6500. I much prefer this VA panel over the 43 MU6300. Blacks are so much darker. It was a PITA to calibrate, the SpyderPro software had no clue what was going on, but DisplayCal sorted it out after 45 minutes of chugging along. It's big, but not gigantic, the curve helps a bit with the panel size. 49" is a good size for a desktop monitor. Definitely wouldn't go any bigger though.

Surprisingly, I really can't tell much difference between a BGR panel and an RGB panel w.r.t OS X font smoothing. I think that issue is really over-blown..


You sure not much difference?

I imagine it just looks a little fuzzy. But once you've seen tack sharp, the fuzzy is annoying. With my BGR screen, I had to change some Firefox 'azure' setting because it was rendering in RGB and ignoring cleartype, and the text looked pretty blurry.


So is the 49" much brighter than the 43" ? If you set an all white screen, what's the brightness setting decreased to in order to match the brightness of the 43" ?


Also, what's the measured color gamut and shit of the 49 ?
 

nameBrandon

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 4, 2012
Messages
130
49" VA is much brighter.. I don't have them setup side by side, but I found 12 to be comfortable on the 43" IPS, and the 49" VA equivalent would be an 8. I'm ~ 2ft away in a very dark room.

Text really isn't fuzzy at all, it's really not much of a difference as far as font smoothing goes, at least for my normal, every day uses which is mostly Safari / Chrome, Mail, terminal. I'm surprised, I thought it was going to be a fontish mess, and so far I have yet to find myself sayin "oh, yeah. that's a font smoothing issue". Maybe it's just extra resolution with 4k helping, I came from a 1440p panel.

Gamut and more info (including EDID stuff) below..

Moral of the story as far as I'm concerned, it's good enough for sRGB work for me. The dotted line in the image is sRGB and the colored line is the monitor. This is all post calibration. Turning on UHD Color on the HDMI port and setting it to about 9 brightness and Warm2 got it pretty darn close to well calibrated.

Coverage info pasted here as it's all the way at the bottom and probably what most people might care about. 96% sRGB.

GAMUT_coverage(srgb) 0.9599
GAMUT_coverage(dci-p3) 0.7292
GAMUT_coverage(adobe-rgb) 0.7099

Screen Shot 2017-12-04 at 4.43.28 PM.png



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aznangel83

n00b
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
2
The E43 has a lower list price, so I bet it's the same shitty display.

It's just dithering. This is how cheapass TVs dither to show colors. It's a form of static dithering, as described here http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

yes, the dot matrix dithering is common among crappy cheap budget TV's.

mid range and higher end TV's don't have this ugly shit. The only cheap 43" TVs that do not have this ugly pixel dimming are the Samsungs and the TCL 43" S405.

The TV's that have this ugly dot matrix include the 49" and 55" TCL S series, cheap 50" Sharp, 55" TCL P605/7.... Insignias, Toshibas, and other cheapass TVs.

showing dark grays with ugly dots. This one is from the TCL P605, but other crap TVs have the same effect...


as you can see close up, it turns off every other subpixel to render some colors, and this is what makes it look like shitty dots.

Thank you so much for this info! I just picked up a 55 " TCL 55S405 and the dithering basically makes it unusable as a monitor. I was going mad trying to tweak various setting on the TV and on the PC to no avail. I'm planning on returning it and instead picking up a 49" Samsung 49MU6290. Do you think it would be prone to the same dithering effect? I could also reluctantly go down to the 43MU6290 or 40MU6290 if they are far superior for monitor use. I've read through the thread and it seems that both of those are good- just pick your poison between an IPS or VA panel.

Unfortunately those are likely the only options in my budget (though the TCL 43S405 is an option if I wanted to give TCL another shot). My use case is a screen to serve as both my TV and PC monitor in my small studio apartment. I would use it as a monitor on my desk and as a TV when viewed from my bed. I'm thinking 49" would be the sweet spot for this but that dithering stuff is really scaring me off from going big.
 

Kdawg

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 12, 2017
Messages
1,116
Thank you so much for this info! I just picked up a 55 " TCL 55S405 and the dithering basically makes it unusable as a monitor. I was going mad trying to tweak various setting on the TV and on the PC to no avail. I'm planning on returning it and instead picking up a 49" Samsung 49MU6290. Do you think it would be prone to the same dithering effect? I could also reluctantly go down to the 43MU6290 or 40MU6290 if they are far superior for monitor use. I've read through the thread and it seems that both of those are good- just pick your poison between an IPS or VA panel.

Unfortunately those are likely the only options in my budget (though the TCL 43S405 is an option if I wanted to give TCL another shot). My use case is a screen to serve as both my TV and PC monitor in my small studio apartment. I would use it as a monitor on my desk and as a TV when viewed from my bed. I'm thinking 49" would be the sweet spot for this but that dithering stuff is really scaring me off from going big.


None of the samsung 6000 series TVs has that shitty dot matrix dithering, so you're safe.

The TCL 43s405 does not have dot matrix either, however, it's not perfect. On still images, it's pixel perfect.
In motion video, sometimes you see fine vertical lines because the temporal dithering it uses doesn't have high enough frequency. It's an eye illusion really. Many TVs that use an AUO panel have this to some degree, especially Vizio, but the 43s405 has a greater degree of it.

I'm in contact with TCL to try to get it fixed with firmware, but I'm not too optimistic. Most people probably wouldn't notice because they don't have a high quality TV to compare to.

I ended up keeping the TCL 43" despite its shortcomings. For $252 net after all discounts perks and taxes, it's the best bang for the buck for a big pc monitor.
 

nameBrandon

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 4, 2012
Messages
130
nice, so it's a little more, a little less, than sRGB.

good enough.

Yep, I think it's probably very close to full sRGB, moreso than my tests report. You can see where my test reports 72.92% dci-p3 coverage, I think rtings had 75 or 76%.. they use a $7,000 device with pro-level software that costs quite a bit. I use a $150 consumer calibration device with free software, so clearly they're going to be more accurate. I'm betting falling short of 100% sRGB is more on my testing than the actual panel's capabilities.
 

aznangel83

n00b
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
2
None of the samsung 6000 series TVs has that shitty dot matrix dithering, so you're safe.

The TCL 43s405 does not have dot matrix either, however, it's not perfect. On still images, it's pixel perfect.
In motion video, sometimes you see fine vertical lines because the temporal dithering it uses doesn't have high enough frequency. It's an eye illusion really. Many TVs that use an AUO panel have this to some degree, especially Vizio, but the 43s405 has a greater degree of it.

I'm in contact with TCL to try to get it fixed with firmware, but I'm not too optimistic. Most people probably wouldn't notice because they don't have a high quality TV to compare to.

I ended up keeping the TCL 43" despite its shortcomings. For $252 net after all discounts perks and taxes, it's the best bang for the buck for a big pc monitor.

Cool! I'll try my luck with a Sammy. Yeah the TCL deals were awesome. Did you do the Target 15% off + 5% off RedCard? I wish I'd known about the dithering thing before that sale. I figured the upgrade to the 55" for $340 net would be worth it. And boy was i wrong
 

Kdawg

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 12, 2017
Messages
1,116
i did the target deal, plus 10% cash back from Discover.

Right now, the 40mu6290 always sells for <$300.
Sometimes the mu6300 is even that price.

If you can get it tax free, not a bad deal.
 

thomaslfessler

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
143
If you can get 4:4:4 and a clean text pattern with this years 6290... not gonna happen. ... without a lot of work, if it’s at all possible.

I’ve had 43” tcl’s from 2 different retailers, both have what we used to call b-grade panels.

Trying another approach, the 40” curved VA panel from AUO is on sale at Best Buy again from $499. Time will tell

FWIW.
i did the target deal, plus 10% cash back from Discover.

Right now, the 40mu6290 always sells for <$300.
Sometimes the mu6300 is even that price.

If you can get it tax free, not a bad deal.
 

Kdawg

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,116
If you can get 4:4:4 and a clean text pattern with this years 6290... not gonna happen. ... without a lot of work, if it’s at all possible.

I’ve had 43” tcl’s from 2 different retailers, both have what we used to call b-grade panels.

Trying another approach, the 40” curved VA panel from AUO is on sale at Best Buy again from $499. Time will tell

FWIW.



I only have the 6300, but I assume the 6290 is identical picture quality.
It has 4:4:4, but what do you mean clean text pattern?

I know the Hisense has some fucked up text rendering which Hisense won't fix with firmware, but the samsung doesn't have that kind of problem.


Looks the same to me...

TCL....
u8qAfGS.jpg


Samsung 40mu6300
z3iLuxS.jpg
 
Last edited:

Jkeys

n00b
Joined
Dec 13, 2016
Messages
14
Ended up getting Sony 43X720E during black friday sale from walmart.

Got it just for a TV without PWM flicker. I can confirm the TV is as comfortable on my eyes to use as my Dell IPS PWM-free monitor. 1" away to 20 feet feels great on my eyes. The Sony is unbelievably bright which I had to turn all the way down to 5/100. I can definitely see why people are using these as monitors as the Sony's performance is very hard to tell the difference with my regular Dell monitor.

Sorry this isn't technical but for those that need a larger flicker free TV/monitor, there is literally not any options so beggars can't be choosers in this regard.
 
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Kdawg

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Ended up getting Sony 43X720E during black friday sale from walmart.

Got it just for a TV without PWM flicker. I can confirm the TV is as comfortable on my eyes to use as my Dell IPS PWM-free monitor. 1" away to 20 feet feels great on my eyes. The Sony is unbelievably bright which I had to turn all the way down to 5/100. I can definitely see why people are using these as monitors as the Sony's performance is very hard to tell the difference with my regular Dell monitor.

Sorry this isn't technical but for those that need a larger flicker free TV/monitor, there is literally not any options so beggars can't be choosers in this regard.


Rtings reviewd the 43x720e, and measured only 340nits, and inline with other budget samsungs and LGs.
That's not unbelievably bright. It's just like an above average laptop screen, which is typically 300nits.

If you turned it all the way down to 5/100, that must be dim as fuck.


Also, the TCL 43" is pwm free at 100% brightness.

Samsung 6xxx series TVs are also PWM free all the way down to 13/20 brightness.
 
Last edited:

Kdawg

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I went to best buy and looked at the Vizio 43" E series, and it has the same shitty pixel dot matrix color rendering as the D43 series.

They're both the same shit quality

Same goes for the Sharp 43" Roku TV at bestbuy.


Just to refresh your memory, this is "dot matrix" color. Fuckin yuck...
MCegMwG.jpg
 

Jkeys

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Dec 13, 2016
Messages
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Rtings reviewd the 43x720e, and measured only 340nits, and inline with other budget samsungs and LGs.
That's not unbelievably bright. It's just like an above average laptop screen, which is typically 300nits.

If you turned it all the way down to 5/100, that must be dim as fuck.


Also, the TCL 43" is pwm free at 100% brightness.

Samsung 6xxx series TVs are also PWM free all the way down to 13/20 brightness.

I don't have BFI on or anything that dims the screen. 25/100 and below really don't change the brightness that much. I guess to me and for my application it is brighter than I thought it would be.

http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/mu6100/mu6100-motion-blur-large.jpg
http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/mu6300/mu6300-motion-blur-large.jpg
http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/mu6500/mu6500-motion-blur-large.jpg
vs
http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/x720e/x720e-motion-blur-large.jpg

Samsung 6xxxx series is atrocious at motion with trailing/doubling images. That kills my eyes. TCL is similar. Having a monitor/TV where if I lower the brightness enough to activate the PWM is kind of pointless since that would limit my ability to use said display. I'm only recommending Sony for people that experience issues with eye strain using LED screens.
 

thomaslfessler

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
143
I don't have BFI on or anything that dims the screen. 25/100 and below really don't change the brightness that much. I guess to me and for my application it is brighter than I thought it would be.

http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/mu6100/mu6100-motion-blur-large.jpg
http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/mu6300/mu6300-motion-blur-large.jpg
http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/mu6500/mu6500-motion-blur-large.jpg
vs
http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/x720e/x720e-motion-blur-large.jpg

Samsung 6xxxx series is atrocious at motion with trailing/doubling images. That kills my eyes. TCL is similar. Having a monitor/TV where if I lower the brightness enough to activate the PWM is kind of pointless since that would limit my ability to use said display. I'm only recommending Sony for people that experience issues with eye strain using LED screens.
 

thomaslfessler

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Messages
143
Best Buy has the 40" AOC C4008VU8 on sale for $499. My order arrived for pickup and I've set it up ias my primary work display, replacing the Seiki 39 30Hz 4k.

Initial thoughts... Wow.. I'm impressed. This display clearly is in a class above the Samsung 6 series and TCL 43S405.
 

jhatfie

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,611
Best Buy has the 40" AOC C4008VU8 on sale for $499. My order arrived for pickup and I've set it up ias my primary work display, replacing the Seiki 39 30Hz 4k.

Initial thoughts... Wow.. I'm impressed. This display clearly is in a class above the Samsung 6 series and TCL 43S405.

Pretty tempting. If it had freesync and faster pixel response times I think I'd be all over it. I sent back my Samsung 40" MU6290, loved the size as it was perfect, but was not loving it enough to keep it as a monitor.
 

Kdawg

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
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This display clearly is in a class above the Samsung 6 series and TCL 43S405.


in what ways exactly?
I can't tell from the specs. All i can tell is they gave it some overdrive to reduce response time by a lot.

I only care about image quality.

it looks like a clone of the philips 40" curved monitor. probably exactly identical inside.
 
Last edited:

thomaslfessler

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
143
Well to start with, the samsung 6290 has red and blue over bleed, making it look more like a 4:2:2 than a 4:4:4

The pixels on the AOC are sharp. Across the, aroma test, lines below and all. FWIW.. Image quality looks better than my Crossover 324k's 10-bit panel.

5CD54CD2-0C00-44DE-96D9-C3DB205A304A.png
4D1E34AE-0169-4E63-AEE1-AB943090C03F.jpeg
A couple of quick pics from the aoc
 

Kdawg

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 12, 2017
Messages
1,116
Well to start with, the samsung 6290 has red and blue over bleed, making it look more like a 4:2:2 than a 4:4:4


Did you set the samsung to BGR in Windows and turn off sharpening?

Bleeding sounds like what you'd get if you tried to run RGB on a BGR screen.
 

thomaslfessler

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
143
Well, I'm not running in windows.

On the samsung, sharpening set to 0, displayed at 3840x2180 at a 1:1 pixel ratio. If I turn the color down drastically, bleeding goes away and the pixels are clean. Would be a deal at $300 if it was 4:4:4.

Compared to the TCL.... Well, both of my TCL's had what I would consider a B-Grade panel - resulting in both returns. Light color or grey backgrounds were a streaky mess from poor quality lighting. My second display developed two vertical hotspots over time about a 1/4 screen from center, 1/2" wide and 1/4 screen tall. Overall the TCL is still a killer value, it just has a couple weak points.
 

Kdawg

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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you're not running Windows... that's likely why.
I wonder if this philips/aoc has an RGB subpixel array. If you can take a clean pic zoomed in, you could tell.
That would give it a clean image in everything outside of Windows.

I'm 99% sure the samsung is 4:4:4. Anything other than 444 would result in garbled text, not just overbleed.
I wish you could take a pic of the chroma image on the 6290 if you still have it.


Here's a pic of my TCL subpixels on the chroma444 image. Red and blue are confined to their own subpixels, so there should be no overbleeding, if you look at it under a macro lens.

if the red subpixel is overbright and overpowering the blue subpixel right next to it, that would make it look like overbleed. Probably would have to tune the reds.

YgCVKrE.jpg
 

thomaslfessler

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
143
I have no complaints on the TCL's 4:4:4. It's a solid display path from AUO. I'll take a pic of the sammy after work
 

jrcbandit

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Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
30
I have last year's Samsung (I think the 6300?) and while I like the input lag when run in game mode and the overall picture quality, I find the grey-to-grey response time to be pretty horrible. Any of these 2017 models make a decent PS4 Pro and PC gaming monitor with 20 ms or less input lag and actually good grey to grey response time? I just wish LG made an OLED in 43 inch size, I'd pay allot for it.
 

Dogbert11

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Joined
Dec 8, 2017
Messages
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First off, registered just to thank everyone that posts about monitors, especially Commander Shepard and kdawg, among others. I've been looking to replace my Dell 3007, and got both the LG 43" and the Sony X720E 43".

Both were a huge upgrade from my Dell, and OMG, the colors on my Dell were so off when I hooked one of the 43"s up next to the Dell. The Dell was way dimmer as well, do CCFL backlights degrade? Either 43" monitor is a night and day difference over my Dell. I'm using it at about 3feet away, once I decide what I keep, I'll be getting a desk mounting pole to put it on, but for now they are just sitting on my desk.

Picture wise, I thought they were both comparable, perhaps the Sony was a bit better. But I didn't do a real calibration, so take that with huge grain of salt.

The real difference is the PWM on the LG. I believe it has the latest firmware, from comparing posts here, but I still think I noticed the PWM backlight. Every time I used it, I would get eye tension, not really a headache, but that weird, tightness around my eyes. I never got it with the Sony. I've swapped monitors back and forth a few times, and every time with the LG I feel the eye strain. I'm running my desktop at 150% so it isn't that the text is too small either.

The only real PITA with the X720 is that when starting the monitor in gaming mode, you have to manually switch to another mode and back again to get the low latency. This glitch is mentioned on the rtings review page of this monitor, and you can definitely tell it.

Now I am trying to decide if I return the X720 for the X800, just so I don't have to keep swapping modes back and forth. Any other benefits to moving to the X800E?
 
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Ended up getting Sony 43X720E during black friday sale from walmart.

What was the BF price for the 43X720E? I was very impressed with the overall picture of the 43X720E in comparison with every other sub 50" TV around it at Best Buy.

Now I am trying to decide if I return the X720 for the X800, just so I don't have to keep swapping modes back and forth. Any other benefits to moving to the X800E?

Wider color gamut and slightly higher maximum brightness, but it doesn't have as good viewing angles.
 

vincentsixtysix

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Dec 9, 2017
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First off, registered just to thank everyone that posts about monitors, especially Commander Shepard and kdawg, among others. I've been looking to replace my Dell 3007, and got both the LG 43" and the Sony X720E 43".


Now I am trying to decide if I return the X720 for the X800, just so I don't have to keep swapping modes back and forth. Any other benefits to moving to the X800E?

x800E is the 2017 model , x720e is a 2016. 800E will have the latest firmware updates.

800E has the triluminious Display , which means many things but it has the bigger color gamut , to me the display feels a bit more vibrant than the x720e not sure why...

As far as the viewing panels, ii didn't notice any difference.

however the 800E has that annoying android software installed which is a big nuance , and i feel is probably some of the reason why it causes noise and other issues with the display.

so all in all, for 50 $ bucks is well worth to get the 800E over the 720E, seems like Sony worked out a lot of the bugs from the 720E, if you look at the reviews are a lot better for one over the other.
 
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Bob123

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Nov 16, 2017
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The real difference is the PWM on the LG. I believe it has the latest firmware, from comparing posts here, but I still think I noticed the PWM backlight. Every time I used it, I would get eye tension, not really a headache, but that weird, tightness around my eyes. I never got it with the Sony. I've swapped monitors back and forth a few times, and every time with the LG I feel the eye strain. I'm running my desktop at 150% so it isn't that the text is too small either.

This is widely reported but I have dismissed at first since LG upped the PWM to 480Hz. Original 120Hz was unbearable from the start, 480Hz is masking it pretty well and if you can use the monitor with brightness >75 or so than it, probably, is not an issue. This is a great monitor, btw in terms of colors, size and unique split-screen. Unfortunately, even though I got 43MU79 (LG 43UD79 and Dell P4317Q use similar PWM too) for great price and loved PBP I could not keep it.

I have a room with controlled lighting and usually ended up with brightness between 30-60. After a week of using it (8 hours/day) I begun having headaches (in front of the head) and my eyes were 'jumping' when reading on my phone (that one was really weird).

I think large screen area is magnifying the flicker issue. Smaller monitors are probably fine at 480Hz but 43"monitor will shine light from angles - at corners of one's eyes - where optic nerves are more sensitive to flicker.
 
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Kdawg

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800E has the triluminious Display , which means many things but it has the bigger color gamut , to me the display feels a bit more vibrant than the x720e not sure why...
.


Rtings supports your findings.
They reviewed the 43" x720e, and the results were pretty embarrassing.

only 8 bit color, not even FRC?
embarrassing color gamut, with dci-p3 73/79%
embarrassing contrast.


In comparison, the shitty TCL 43" with the AUO panel has 8bit+FRC,
dci-p3 color gamut 81/87%
 

Kdawg

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1,116
I have last year's Samsung (I think the 6300?) and while I like the input lag when run in game mode and the overall picture quality, I find the grey-to-grey response time to be pretty horrible. Any of these 2017 models make a decent PS4 Pro and PC gaming monitor with 20 ms or less input lag and actually good grey to grey response time? I just wish LG made an OLED in 43 inch size, I'd pay allot for it.


Most TVs don't have that overdrive that pc monitors have.

I notice that they all suck when it comes to response time, as tested at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/response_time.php

The 43" TCL does better than Hisense, but worse than 43" samsung mu6300 IPS.

I don't have my 40" samsung 6300 anymore, but I remember response time was also worse than the 43" samsung
 

Jkeys

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Joined
Dec 13, 2016
Messages
14
The real difference is the PWM on the LG. I believe it has the latest firmware, from comparing posts here, but I still think I noticed the PWM backlight. Every time I used it, I would get eye tension, not really a headache, but that weird, tightness around my eyes. I never got it with the Sony. I've swapped monitors back and forth a few times, and every time with the LG I feel the eye strain. I'm running my desktop at 150% so it isn't that the text is too small either.

The only real PITA with the X720 is that when starting the monitor in gaming mode, you have to manually switch to another mode and back again to get the low latency. This glitch is mentioned on the rtings review page of this monitor, and you can definitely tell it.

Now I am trying to decide if I return the X720 for the X800, just so I don't have to keep swapping modes back and forth. Any other benefits to moving to the X800E?

IIRC::
x720e has lower input lag
x800e has android TV + better speakers + TriLuminos Display + 10 bit color
 

Jkeys

n00b
Joined
Dec 13, 2016
Messages
14
What was the BF price for the 43X720E? I was very impressed with the overall picture of the 43X720E in comparison with every other sub 50" TV around it at Best Buy.

KD55X720E $598
KD49X720E $528
KD43X720E $478

Absolutely insane price but there is literally no other option for people who need flicker free screens. Sony controls all prices across every authorized dealer.
 
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