Current 43" 4K options?

Kdawg

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they're actually better than older series. They greatly reduced input lag on newer models,

Display, color and image quality have been better than my 23" LG IPS monitor, if you disregard gamma shifting at off angles inherent in all VA panels.

The MU series has several tiers ... 6000 7000 8000 9000. JS and KS are ooold, and they've improved a lot since then.
 

Skott

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The MU series does not have lower lag input than the KS series. Check your facts again. There is a reason why people are still buying the KS series over the MU series for pc monitors and gaming. Are there TVs with lower input lag than the KS series? Yes but they are not the MU series.
 

Kdawg

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according to rtings,input lag

ks8000
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 : = 37.4 ms
1080p 60hz 444 = 37.8ms

mu6300
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 = 21.1 ms
1080p 60hz 444 = 21 ms
 

Kdawg

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Took delivery of a Polaroid 43gsr4100K(L) that no one gives a shit about, and as expected, it is the crappiest fucking TV you could ever use as a monitor.

Input lag is like 200ms, just moving your mouse around is painful.
and it has a RGBW panel with mediocre brightness, made by BOE, with a Himax controller chip.
According to panelook.com, BOE makes an RGB and RGBW in 43" size.
The RGB goes into the 43" samsung mu6300. The RGBW goes into every other crap brand 43" on the market, except hisense and TCL.

I didn't expect much for $230, and at that price, it's still a huge fuckin rip off.

This is the Black Friday Target TV you must not buy.

Compared to a 43" TCL, Polaroid doesn't even come close. It's complete garbage. The quality is insufferable.

RGBW faux-K.



eUdPW5r.jpg
bSxhm6m.jpg
 
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Kdawg

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Nope. The Atyme 430AM7UD is a piece of shit too. It has the same RGB PLS BOE panel as the samsung 43mu6300, but it's dimmer than the already dim 43mu6300. This thing is like 200nits only. and a dumb TV.
Plus it has wack ass sharpening that can't be turned off.

So I've tested every budget TV out there now that supports chroma 444 (but doesn't necessarily display it correctly), and the only budget 43" TV's with the best and cleanest picture quality and pc compatibility are the TCL 43" and samsung mu6300.
I favor the TCL more because it has advanced color adjustments which let you tweak color in infinite ways.


Everything else is garbage. Including hisense/sharp.
 
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Doom5003

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Anyone running a Samsung MU7000 and have any thoughts on them? Or are they considered to be identical to the MU6300?
 

nameBrandon

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Hey all.. just jumping in the middle here.. I've spent the last week trying to find a solid 40-43" monitor and kept bouncing between reviews of the LG / Viewsonic / Dell / Phillips, etc.. and wasn't happy with what I was reading. Found this thread and quickly went from "why are these weird dudes talking about TV's for monitors.." to "oh damn.. some of these TV's are better than those monitors" pretty quickly, so thanks for the crash course..

I'm trying to find a good 40-43" panel for probably 30% development work, 50% photo editing, and 20% gaming. My primary concern is photo editing, though i'll caveat that, I don't make a living doing this so no crazy requirements.. Just looking for something I can calibrate with my SpyderPro and that will cover SRGB as best as I can. Gaming is nothing serious.. I still play CS:S from time to time, and an MMORPG here and there. I am using a Mac Pro though (older 5,1) with a GTX 980, so wanting to make sure I can find a RGB sub-pixel panel if possible for font-smoothing. Little worried I might be missing out on not having a DisplayPort input though.. any of you found that lack of input to be problematic in any way? No specific need for it I guess, just always had one..

Looks like the X800D/E and TCL S405 are getting some decent feedback.. rtings is showing the X720E as the best for 'PC Monitor' though.. any suggestions based on my uses for one or the other? I have a 34" LG ultra-wide (IPS) right now and it's fine. I do have a ASUS PB278Q as a second monitor, and when it was my primary it would give me headaches unless I lowered brightness to <20% (not sure if that's PWM related or just brightness intensity related).

Anyway, would appreciate any feedback / suggestions. Thanks!
 

Kdawg

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According to rtings, the x720e has shitty color gamut, so consider that if you're using for photos. The sony is even lower gamut than the TCL.

Samsung, TCL, Sony, all work equally well as a pc monitor. They all have chroma 444 60hz and low input lag. So it's a toss up in that regard.
I don't know why sony is ranked as the best pc monitor. Maybe it gets bonus points for being IPS, but it has the shittiest color gamut of the bunch.

Calibration is easiest on the TCL and Sony because it gives you many options. The Samsung only give you 2-point white balance in pc mode, but you can probably still calibrate color reasonably.

Along with the sonys, the 43" samsung mu6300 is an IPS panel too.
All other sizes and brands are VA panels with BGR layout.

The 43mu6300 is the only IPS RGB layout I know of.
The sonys have an LG BGR IPS panel.

You would have more options if you vesa mount upside down, or maybe Macs have something like Windows Clear Type BGR support ?
 

nameBrandon

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According to rtings, the x720e has shitty color gamut, so consider that if you're using for photos. The sony is even lower gamut than the TCL.

Samsung, TCL, Sony, all work equally well as a pc monitor. They all have chroma 444 60hz and low input lag. So it's a toss up in that regard.
I don't know why sony is ranked as the best pc monitor. Maybe it gets bonus points for being IPS, but it has the shittiest color gamut of the bunch.

Calibration is easiest on the TCL and Sony because it gives you many options. The Samsung only give you 2-point white balance in pc mode, but you can probably still calibrate color reasonably.

Along with the sonys, the 43" samsung mu6300 is an IPS panel too.
All other sizes and brands are VA panels with BGR layout.

The 43mu6300 is the only IPS RGB layout I know of.
The sonys have an LG BGR IPS panel.

You would have more options if you vesa mount upside down, or maybe Macs have something like Windows Clear Type BGR support ?

Thanks so much! OS X is a bit wonky with it's font smoothing, there isn't a clear type equivalent.. it's RGB or turn off font smoothing or live with the mess. Would like to avoid mounting upside down, so will look into the 43MU600. If I went VA over IPS would that improve options at all? Never really looked into VA for photo work, but not opposed to it on principle or anything.

The cool thing about the 'monitor' calibration systems is that the calibration happens at the driver / OS level, not on the actual panel. So I would set the TV to 6500 or close to thereabouts, then the little hardware / USB puck sticks to the TV/monitor all Aliens like and take a ton of readings, and then calibrates on the PC side, not much tweaking needed on the actual display device. Now that does assume a fair amount of panel uniformity, which perhaps is an more an issue with TV's vs monitors, not sure.

Thanks again for the feedback, much appreciated!

Edit - Oh, perhaps the calibration process is not the same on a monitor.. not sure why, will have to look into this. I really only care about calibration as far as photo work goes, not for movies, console games, etc... This is the device I'm currently using, and would want to use to calibrate the TV with the Mac. - https://www.amazon.com/Datacolor-Spyder4Pro-S4P100-Colorimeter-Calibration/dp/B006TF37H8
 
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Kdawg

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VA does not give you more options, as all of them are BGR array.
As long as you are viewing photos straight on, VA is fine, and colors are comparable. VA's wash out from side angles.

The 43mu6300 was $330 at newegg not too long ago. Keep your eyes peeled for clearance deals the next few months. Walmart carries this in store, and their clearance deals get crazy during late winter early spring season before new models come out.
 

nameBrandon

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Checking in to report on my time with my 43" X800D. It's fantastic. Took a while to get used to a flat screen after a couple years with 49" curved screens. In fact, for a couple days, the 800D looked almost convex to my eyes. Really weird!!

After updating the software and tweaking the settings, my 800D looks almost as good as my 49" KS8500 did when it was my monitor. The screen seems to be less reflective than my KS, too. I think the 43" is really good for 4K, as is 48" - 50". It's nice to have a pretty big screen without always looking up as with my bigger KS. Definitely gets my high recommendation for 4K.

Would you consider going to back to a curved 49? Was looking at the MU7600/6500 as an option. 7600 seems better gamut wise, but 6500 is IPS... Lag seems solid. Wondering though what you think about the size difference. 40-43 seems more manageable than 49, not sure how the curve changes things though. How far back did you normally sit from the 49? A little concerned about PPI and being pixely from ~ 2ft away too..
 
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Mad Maxx

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Would you consider going to back to a curved 49? Was looking at the MU7600/6500 as an option. 7600 seems better gamut wise, but 6500 is IPS... Lag seems solid. Wondering though what you think about the size difference. 40-43 seems more manageable than 49, not sure how the curve changes things though. How far back did you normally sit from the 49? A little concerned about PPI and being pixely from ~ 2ft away too..
Probably not. I was looking up constantly at my 49” Samsung and it bothered my neck after an hour or so. I do love curved screens, though. I’m hoping for some better 40” - 43” curved 4K TVs in 2018.
 

Dan_D

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Probably not. I was looking up constantly at my 49” Samsung and it bothered my neck after an hour or so. I do love curved screens, though. I’m hoping for some better 40” - 43” curved 4K TVs in 2018.

I'm on mine constantly and I don't have this issue. Sitting up with the chair at the proper height is all that I needed to do in order to avoid this issue.
 

Mad Maxx

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I'm on mine constantly and I don't have this issue. Sitting up with the chair at the proper height is all that I needed to do in order to avoid this issue.
Maybe you're just taller than me. I'm in a wheelchair every waking moment of every day. My seating posture is perfect and it didn't take long for me to realize the 49" wasn't right for me.
 

Kdawg

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right now i have a 50" and 43" 4k TVs on my desk, arm's length away, and the most comfortable position is when your head height is parallel to the upper half of the screen.
Both are manageable.
Only reason I'll be returning the 50 is that it consumes more electricity. Otherwise it's fine.
 

nameBrandon

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For those of you running the larger panels (49-50), how far (lifted) off your desk is it (and are you using the stand it came with), and what's your viewing distance? Can you get the whole panel in your field of view or do you look up/down or side to side often?

Right my 34" ultrawide is 7" off the desk and I'm roughly 18-24 inches away, depending on if I slouch or lean in with elbows on the desk.. properly sitting, with back into the back of my chair, distance is probably 28". I feel like 43" is doable at this distance, but another 6-7 inches in monitor size has me a bit concerned about neck pain and looking up and down constantly.
 

nameBrandon

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Found this here.. - http://forums.hdtvtest.co.uk/index.php?topic=9499.0

True Ultra HD (RGB subpixel panel structure) LCD - 50 / 60Hz.
Samsung: 49MU8002, 49MU7002, MU6650, MU6642, MU6502, MU6500, MU6402, MU6400, MU6300, MU6202, MU6200, MU6170, MU6102, MU6100
LG: -
Panasonic: EX730, EXW734, EX732, EX703, EX700, EX633, EX620, EX613, EX610, EXW604, EX603, EX600
Philips: 6482, 6452, 6432, 6412, 6402, 6262, 6162
Sony: XE8099, XE8096, XE8088, XE8077, XE8005, XE8004, XE7096, XE7077, XE7073, XE7005, XE7004, XE7003, XE7002, XE7000

This seems to indicate the Sony XE800D/E might actually be an RGB sub-pixel panel.. XE8004 I guess is the UK version of the XE800(D/E)?

Shepard or someone with the Sony, would you mind checking out the subpixel test on lagom and let me know what you find, please? Maybe someone with an X800D and someone else with an E just to validate they both have the same arrangement? http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/subpixel.php
 
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Kdawg

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All TV's I've used are ~2.5" off the table using factory legs.
arms length ~2 ft away, the 50" screen fits in my FOV with a lot of peripheral area to spare.
For most content in the 4 quadrants, you will only have to shift your eyeballs. Very little neck movement.
You should go to the store and check some out yourself.


that hdtvtest.co.uk does not differentiate between RGB and BGR. They lump everything that is not RGBW.
I can tell you for sure that the 40" samsung mu6300 has a BGR layout.

Rtings shows that the Sony IPS TVs have inverted BGR, while the LG SJ8500 has upright RGB IPS
But someone else can confirm.
 

nameBrandon

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All TV's I've used are ~2.5" off the table using factory legs.
arms length ~2 ft away, the 50" screen fits in my FOV with a lot of peripheral area to spare.
For most content in the 4 quadrants, you will only have to shift your eyeballs. Very little neck movement.
You should go to the store and check some out yourself.


that hdtvtest.co.uk does not differentiate between RGB and BGR. They lump everything that is not RGBW.
I can tell you for sure that the 40" samsung mu6300 has a BGR layout.

Rtings shows that the Sony IPS TVs have inverted BGR, while the LG SJ8500 has upright RGB IPS
But someone else can confirm.

Thanks so much, very useful! Stupid question time.. wouldn't inverted BGR = RGB? Or does inverted have to do with how the pixels activate as opposed to physical layout?

Really I'm down to 3 panels at this point.. the IPS 43" MU6300 (seems the consensus is that it's RGB), the 49" MU6500, and the Sony 43 X800D/E (would defer to IPS, but really the determining factor is ability to play OK with OS X font smoothing). I may have to find some of these on display and haul the macbook out with the proper HDMI cable to best buy or something.. :\

Also, how are you determining this from rtings? Looking at the pixel photos? I would love to learn how you're interpreting this so I can quit bugging you guys and do it for myself. :) Obviously the pixel order can be observed from the images, but I didn't assume that the photos showed the very first pixel, so I couldn't tell if perhaps the left-most pixel that was shown in in the image was in fact a middle pixel and the photo just cut off previous pixels.. Is it just the fact that RGB subpixels appear in that order (RGB RGB etc..), while BGR shows up a RBG RBG and we just refer to it starting with the letter B, so it becomes BGR?
 
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Luke M

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Also, how are you determining this from rtings? Looking at the pixel photos? I would love to learn how you're interpreting this so I can quit bugging you guys and do it for myself. :) Obviously the pixel order can be observed from the images, but I didn't assume that the photos showed the very first pixel, so I couldn't tell if perhaps the left-most pixel that was shown in in the image was in fact a middle pixel and the photo just cut off previous pixels.. Is it just the fact that RGB subpixels appear in that order (RGB RGB etc..), while BGR shows up a RBG RBG and we just refer to it starting with the letter B, so it becomes BGR?

Yeah, there's some guesswork involved with looking at a solid white image. A checkerboard pattern would be definitive, but rtings doesn't provide that.
 

Kdawg

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Yeah, I look at the pixel image on Rtings, and knowing that the chevron subpixels are only made by LG, and LG does not make a GRB or RBG, so it has to be BGR or RGB.

I meant BGR, which is inverted from the standard RGB. non scientific term. sorry for confusion.

I've pixel-peeped a bunch of TV's these last couple months, and I have never seen a TV with any other array besides RGB or BGR, . , excluding the crappy RGBW panels..... which have RGB-WRG-BWR-GBW

Bringing your macbook and hdmi cable to Best Buy would be best. Or just take one home, as their return policies are generous.

You can't really go wrong with the 43mu6300, but test it for compatibility first. Walmart might have it on display.
The 43mu6300 is RGB, and does not have PWM at max brightness, which is not painfully bright. It only uses PWM at 12/20 brightness or less
 
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nameBrandon

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Yeah, I look at the pixel image on Rtings, and knowing that the chevron subpixels are only made by LG, and LG does not make a GRB or RBG, so it has to be BGR or RGB.

I meant BGR, which is inverted from the standard RGB. non scientific term. sorry for confusion.

I've pixel-peeped a bunch of TV's these last couple months, and I have never seen a TV with any other array besides RGB or BGR, . , excluding the crappy RGBW panels..... which have RGB-WRG-BWR-GBW

Bringing your macbook and hdmi cable to Best Buy would be best. Or just take one home, as their return policies are generous.

You can't really go wrong with the 43mu6300, but test it for compatibility first. Walmart might have it on display.
The 43mu6300 is RGB, and does not have PWM at max brightness, which is not painfully bright. It only uses PWM at 12/20 brightness or less

Thank you! I think I've decided to evaluate both the 43MU6300 and the 49MU6500. Will order them both so that I can return one locally. I imagine I'll end up keeping the 43MU6300 but need to give that curved 49 a shot just to make sure. :)
 

Doom5003

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Just got a MU7000 (think it is just a re branded MU6300)
The problem is, if i enable HDR in Win settings the colors become all faded and washed out.
Anyone else exp this and have a way to fix it?
Running lastest Win 10 and 1080
 
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So I've tested every budget TV out there now that supports chroma 444 (but doesn't necessarily display it correctly), and the only budget 43" TV's with the best and cleanest picture quality and pc compatibility are the TCL 43" and samsung mu6300.
I favor the TCL more because it has advanced color adjustments which let you tweak color in infinite ways.

Thanks for testing all those budget TVs. I actually wondered about that Atyme at Fry's, but assumed it was crap.
You haven't tested all of them yet though, there's still the Vizio E43-E2 and D43-E2. Someone previously in the thread said the D43-E2 (2017 model) is a good one, but didn't get into much detail. Rtings review for the 2017 E-series says it doesn't have PWM flicker, so that sounded interesting as well.

Just got a MU7000 (think it is just a re branded MU6300)
The problem is, if i enable HDR in Win settings the colors become all faded and washed out.
Anyone else exp this and have a way to fix it?
Running lastest Win 10 and 1080

I found the same with my Sharp. HDR video looks normal in HDR mode (when it normally doesn't), so I assumed it's working correctly and the Windows desktop just isn't HDR compatible, but I could be wrong on that.
 

Kdawg

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yeah i skipped the vizio. The specs don't look so great. 4 hdmi ports, but only one supports chroma 444, and the input lag is higher.
Maybe I'll test it next time I'm at Target.
 

Doom5003

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Thanks for testing all those budget TVs. I actually wondered about that Atyme at Fry's, but assumed it was crap.
You haven't tested all of them yet though, there's still the Vizio E43-E2 and D43-E2. Someone previously in the thread said the D43-E2 (2017 model) is a good one, but didn't get into much detail. Rtings review for the 2017 E-series says it doesn't have PWM flicker, so that sounded interesting as well.



I found the same with my Sharp. HDR video looks normal in HDR mode (when it normally doesn't), so I assumed it's working correctly and the Windows desktop just isn't HDR compatible, but I could be wrong on that.

I read that I must change the input source from PC to Game and that should "fix" it. Will try it when I get a chance and see what happens
 

nameBrandon

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Don't think anyone here is looking, but just a heads up that the 43" MU6300 is on sale at Amazon for $365.49 (actually cheaper than the 40"). Looks like they were trying to out-price Target, who had a 15% off TV sale today which brought their price on the 43" to $365.50. You could also order it from Target.com (not sold in stores), but not sure who would chose that option over Amazon.

As an FYI, the Target 15% is against a wide selection of TV's, so if Amazon didn't match all of them you should be able to score a deal at Target.

I picked up the 43MU6300 from Amazon and the 49MU6500 (for $424.99) via the Target deal. Planning to compare them both and return one of them (kind of rooting for the 43" so I can just return the 49" off at a Target store instead of mailing it back).
 
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Just got a MU7000 (think it is just a re branded MU6300)
The problem is, if i enable HDR in Win settings the colors become all faded and washed out.
Anyone else exp this and have a way to fix it?
Running lastest Win 10 and 1080
I had the MU7000 for a few days and while I liked the 40" size, I decided to return it for the TCL 55P605, which is a better tv and also has a lower input lag of 14.2 ms. The Samsung I think is around 20-21 ms. I also have the Acer 43 ET430K which is a decent monitor at $400 on sale at microcenter. It's better then the Samsung. The input lag I think is around 17 ms.

HDR on desktop is gonna look like that. All my monitor/TV with HDR looked just like what you described. It's annoying when trying to figure out where your mouse cursor is on a white page. I would recommend turning it on only for movies or gaming. On a gaming side, I'll just warn you and everyone else that has a HDR monitor/TV. Some games will not start or will make your pc reboot. I think it's a Windows 10 issues. I've posted it but no one has replied.
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...b05-996e-44479273fc4e?tm=1511111799965&auth=1
 
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Kdawg

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Thanks for testing all those budget TVs. I actually wondered about that Atyme at Fry's, but assumed it was crap.
You haven't tested all of them yet though, there's still the Vizio E43-E2 and D43-E2. Someone previously in the thread said the D43-E2 (2017 model) is a good one, but didn't get into much detail. Rtings review for the 2017 E-series says it doesn't have PWM flicker, so that sounded interesting as well.


I was at Target today for BF, and I looked at the Vizio D43-E2, on sale for $370.

oh boy, I'm glad I didn't buy this for testing.

It's complete SHIT, totally unsuitable for desktop monitor because of the el cheapo dithering pixel dimming which makes everything look like dot matrix crap...


dPp4DBd.jpg
 
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Pixel dithering! Is that common? First I've heard it mentioned. Well, that knocks another one off the possibilities. Thanks for checking it out. $370 is a lot for the D43. I wonder if the higher-end E43-E2 (2017) is any better. The E43 is supposedly IPS, but probably just has that common BOE panel.
 

Kdawg

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The E43 has a lower list price, so I bet it's the same shitty display.

It's just dithering. This is how cheapass TVs dither to show colors. It's a form of static dithering, as described here http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

yes, the dot matrix dithering is common among crappy cheap budget TV's.

mid range and higher end TV's don't have this ugly shit. The only cheap 43" TVs that do not have this ugly pixel dimming are the Samsungs and the TCL 43" S405.

The TV's that have this ugly dot matrix include the 49" and 55" TCL S series, cheap 50" Sharp, 55" TCL P605/7.... Insignias, Toshibas, and other cheapass TVs.

showing dark grays with ugly dots. This one is from the TCL P605, but other crap TVs have the same effect...

aaEMOMq.jpg




as you can see close up, it turns off every other subpixel to render some colors, and this is what makes it look like shitty dots.

v1Fx9rM.jpg



This is how pixel dimming destroys webpages and makes them ugly....

NZl8w8f.jpg
 
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What kind of camera are you using to take these pics? Looks like it takes incredible macro pics.
I don't believe my Sharp 43" does pixel dithering either. Every gray on that lagom black level test looks like all subpixels lit equally, differing in just intensity.
Here is the best shot I could get with my phone camera through a magnifying lens, this is #13 on that black level page which looks much darker in real life, I think my phone autoexposure is brightening it significantly.

20171125_001259.jpg


Kind of strange the 50" Sharp does pixel dithering when the 2016 43" model didn't. I assume Hisense is still making the Sharp branded TVs. Could it be they consider pixel dithering some kind of enhancement that can be turned off?
Very strange the D43-E2 MSRP is higher than the E43-E2, the E-series is supposed to be a higher model. Maybe their margins are so slim, they can charge less for the E43 because it has no tuner.
 

Kdawg

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not a macro lens. I just used a regular canon dslr camera at 50mm, focused on the pixels, and blew up the image in photoshop.
You can do the same on your phone without magnifying glass. Just need to hold it close enough to focus on the pixels.

The 43" Sharp is like the 43" Hisense. The 43 hisense does not have that wack pixel dimming.

D43 is more expensive probably because it has a TV tuner, whereas the E43 does not.

The dithering is built into the firmware, and can't be turned off. The only way is for the manufacturer to change the firmware.
I don't know why they choose static dithering on some sizes and not others.

The same shit occurs with the TCL s405 line. The 43" has no static dither, but the 49" 55" 65" do.
 

nameBrandon

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FWIW, if someone else using a mac comes across this a million years from now.. the Accel DP 1.2 -> HDMI 2.0 adapter worked to get me the 4k 60hz on the MU6300 with High Sierra.
 

metropole

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Can someone confirm that the UN43MU6300 switched to an IPS panel? I am looking for a TV in a dark room and I am concerned about the black contrast of the IPS panels
 

metropole

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Sounds like the 43" class doesn't have any good choices. The Sony X800E has an IPS panel as well....
 

Mad Maxx

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Sounds like the 43" class doesn't have any good choices. The Sony X800E has an IPS panel as well....
Best 43" I've used is the Sony X800D. It's got a VA panel. Kinda hard to find, though. I think Amazon still has them. I'm hoping for some new models in the 40" to 43" category in 2018.
 
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