Crypto Miners, Not Gamers, Were The Primary Buyers of Graphics Cards Since 2021, Almost $15 Billion Worth of GPU Sales Reported

LukeTbk

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You are not factoring in the asics which go towards the hashrate totals. I dont know what the % on that would be though.
Yeah it is extremelly gross and terrible estimate, do not factor the percentage running at the same time, how many used for something else than ETH and so on, the general point being in a world that sold in 2021 around what 200-250 millions Iphone, 20 millions consoles Ps5/Xbox consoles + Nintendo, 340 millions desktop PC, 37 millions chromebook, 1 millions Tesla, when looking at what put pressure/consummed away chips (from substrate to TSMC space, etc...) from desktop discrete video cards supply to explain why it stayed around 11.x millions unit by quarter instead of rising up to 14.x with the demands, clients having just in the thousands/ten of thousands of units seem just noise, specially if we are talking about the biggest players having that type of volume.

I feel it is stuff taking 100,000+ unexpected units every quarter than usual (Chromebook, Iphone being able to pay anything it cost to deliver 100% of the demands quick enough), new consoles, cars starting to use 7mm quality chips instead of just old 250mm-300mm and crypto), what would be interesting about the Facebook of the world is their yearly increase in usage.
 
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DukenukemX

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I was just wondering if I was missing out on something with the whole "no NO never buy mined cards!" thing..........
They all believe the cards will be overclocked and pushed into a hot box which would wear down the cards if this were the case. Even still, 2 years of mining is not enough to wear out the cards. If anything I see it as proof that these cards are built well. If something lasts 2 years under stress then it'll likely last much longer than something new from the box. There are too many stories of DOA cards or cards that may have only lasted a year before needing warranty. Speaking of which, as someone said before some manufacturers will still honor their warranty even if you don't have a receipt. My cousin bought a 3060 that died and I think it was EVGA who honored it because he had a receipt. You can buy used cards and ask for the original receipt so you still get the warranty. Most sellers probably don't have a copy but you can always ask and see if they do. Most people bought their GPU's online so it should be in their email.
 

HockeyJon

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[citations needed]

Dude, this thread is literally based on a consulting company giving an estimate for demand, but the manufacturers themselves have cited this as a significant source of demand. I'll post citations, but if you have decided you're going to ignore the evidence already presented for whatever reason, than I suspect you're just going to ignore this too:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/asus-demand-for-gpus-among-cryptocurrency-miners-is-drying-up

The company’s co-CEO SY Hsu made the comment during an earnings call(Opens in a new window) on Wednesday when he was asked about how graphics cards pricing has been falling in recent weeks.

“Because the demand for cryptocurrency mining on GPU shipments has been slowly coming down, the demand for graphics cards across the market is normalizing,” he said.

This isn't the first time this happened either:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022...g-investors-about-gpu-sales-to-crypto-miners/

If you want to know why this failure to disclose might upset investors, recall the aftermath of the 2017-era crypto bubble, when Nvidia missed earnings expectations and lost billions in stock market value because of a collapse in demand for GPUs. The popping of that cryptomining bubble also led to a glut of inventory that retailers had trouble moving, even after price cuts.

Nvidia is saying it is a source of demand right now:

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/nvidi...e-crash-as-it-admits-miners-victory-over-lhr/

Changes to cryptocurrency standards and processes including, but not limited to, the pending Ethereum 2.0 standard may decrease the usage of GPUs for Ethereum mining as well as create increased aftermarket resales of our GPUs, impact retail prices for our GPUs, increase returns of our products in the distribution channel, and may reduce demand for our new GPUs. We have introduced Lite Hash Rate, or LHR, GeForce GPUs with limited Ethereum mining capability and provided CMP products in an effort to address demand from gamers and direct miners to CMP. Beginning in the second quarter of the fiscal year 2022, most desktop NVIDIA Ampere architecture GeForce GPU shipments were LHR in our effort to direct GeForce to gamers. Attempts in the aftermarket to improve the hash rate capabilities of our LHR cards have been successful and our gaming cards may become more attractive to miners, increasing demand for our gaming GPUs and limiting our ability to supply our gaming cards to non-mining customers. We cannot predict whether our strategy of using LHR cards and CMP will achieve our desired outcome.

I don't understand why anyone here is even questioning this. We're hardware enthusiasts, we're in this market, we see the demand picture, and the companies who manufacture these products are telling us that crypto mining is materially impacting their sales volumes and ability to meet consumer demand, and yet we still have a bunch of guys on this forum saying "nu-uh, you don't have proof", as if somehow they know the market better than Jensen Huang when it comes to who's buying GPUs.
 
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Joust

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I don't understand why anyone here is even questioning this. We're hardware enthusiasts, we're in this market, we see the demand picture, and the companies who manufacture these products are telling us that crypto mining is materially impacting their sales volumes, and still we have a bunch of guys on this forum saying "nu-uh, you don't have proof".

In fairness, I think the argument is a bit more nuanced than that. It is indisputable that there's an effect on demand from mining. The argument is more over the relative price impact.
 

HockeyJon

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In fairness, I think the argument is a bit more nuanced than that. It is indisputable that there's an effect on demand from mining. The argument is more over the relative price impact.

That's fair, but who's more likely to pay 3x MSRP for a GPU, a gamer or a dude who's like "whatever, I'll make it back and then some in 4 months"?
 

Bowman15

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Dude, this thread is literally based on a consulting company giving an estimate for demand, but the manufacturers themselves have cited this as a significant source of demand. I'll post citations, but if you have decided you're going to ignore the evidence already presented for whatever reason, than I suspect you're just going to ignore this too:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/asus-demand-for-gpus-among-cryptocurrency-miners-is-drying-up



This isn't the first time this happened either:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022...g-investors-about-gpu-sales-to-crypto-miners/



Nvidia is saying it is a source of demand right now:

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/nvidi...e-crash-as-it-admits-miners-victory-over-lhr/



I don't understand why anyone here is even questioning this. We're hardware enthusiasts, we're in this market, we see the demand picture, and the companies who manufacture these products are telling us that crypto mining is materially impacting their sales volumes and ability to meet consumer demand, and yet we still have a bunch of guys on this forum saying "nu-uh, you don't have proof", as if somehow they know the market better than Jensen Huang when it comes to who's buying GPUs.

The members pushing back are miners, what do you expect. 😁
 

LukeTbk

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In fairness, I think the argument is a bit more nuanced than that. It is indisputable that there's an effect on demand from mining. The argument is more over the relative price impact.
Do you mean by that, that the price impact is significantly larger than the demand one ? Would be hard to distinguish between the 2 obviously, but that could be true.
 

TurboGLH

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Right, with you on this, but what I don't get is the worry......like other posters have said "I never buy used, those things have been overclocked to hell and back". To me, I go "nice, proven track record, will you take an anonymous out of state check?" :)
The thinking: These cards, even if running in stock, untweaked form will thermally protect themselves habitually and run within specs...and the cards are, what, 2 years old at most? If your caps pop or cold solders fail I'd think its equally likely that you'd see that happening from repeated on/off cycles as it would from just having the thing crunching numbers 24/7 at stock everything, no? So if its sitting in a hot case/rack......so what. They're basically designed to be built into systems that sometimes have the cooling of a mink coat, like 80% of all OEM systems, so cards that have mined....what performance
degradation do they show.............I want to say a YouTube channel of some respect did a video on this a year or more ago but can't recall which one and the answer was "yep, no difference to a new one", the only concern being........these cards may not last as long.
Of course...."last as long" is a relative term....do I care if my old 670's haven't lasted at peak performance until today, or even the aforementioned 2600k I overclocked to heck........not really, they aren't necessarily viable anymore anyhow.
I was just wondering if I was missing out on something with the whole "no NO never buy mined cards!" thing..........

I bought a used 290 during the 2014 bust. I ran it hard under air, then water cooled with another reference card I bought at launch. OC'd both of them for a few years right at the limit, both ran flawlessly the whole time. Like everything, price is key. Cheap enough and I would roll the dice on a used card. Not really in need of an upgrade right now though.
 

BBQisGood

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Nvidia is saying it is a source of demand right now:

https://www.hardwaretimes[.]com/nvidia-warns-against-gpu-price-crash-as-it-admits-miners-victory-over-lhr/

I don't understand why anyone here is even questioning this. We're hardware enthusiasts, we're in this market, we see the demand picture, and the companies who manufacture these products are telling us that crypto mining is materially impacting their sales volumes and ability to meet consumer demand, and yet we still have a bunch of guys on this forum saying "nu-uh, you don't have proof", as if somehow they know the market better than Jensen Huang when it comes to who's buying GPUs.

"demand right now" - that was last year.
As seen in this article from 2021:
https://cryptocurrencyfare.com/the-cryptocurrency-move-to-proof-of-stake-could-be-bad-for-nvidia/

And this official from 10K from Jan 2021 that contains the exact word for word quote:
https://s22.q4cdn.com/364334381/fil...1/q4/0ec16816-55e2-4812-8f77-75cab5909247.pdf

And this official quarterly results press release from 2022:
"NVIDIA Announces Financial Results for First Quarter Fiscal 2023
Wednesday, May 25, 2022"
https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-announces-financial-results-for-first-quarter-fiscal-2023

we can deduce that their Fiscal Calendar is like 1 yr advanced, thus older article and may not reflect current state of 2022.


Now for my opinion about that hardwaretimes[.]com "news site": its trash reporting for clicks and not even worth linking out.
 
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Joust

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Do you mean by that, that the price impact is significantly larger than the demand one ? Would be hard to distinguish between the 2 obviously, but that could be true.

Well. I think there's a lot more that goes into pricing than is controlled by changes in demand. I'm absolutely sure there are actuaries that do this for production process planning.

I was typing up a treatise on the various ways demand (and related) factors can change pricing, but I sliced my finger on my broken phone screen and have abandoned it. I'll suffice to say: a 100% increase in demand could change unit pricing by 10%, 50%, 150%, not at all, or - in some circumstances- reduce the unit price.
 

noko

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The Hashrates do not pan out the assertion of the thread topic. More than Amper and RNDA2 cards are used for mining. Still, due to profitability, many gamers also mined.

What one does with their own property, albeit a GPU, is their business. Miners did not have 1st in line privileges at retail stores, online stores. Those cards were fair game for everyone.

My 5700XT AE had memory degradation to only stock clocks or less for mining. It never was a good memory OCer but it did have a little headroom. Redoing the thermal pads made no difference. I have zero intentiion of selling, give away or the trash can.

No memory degradation on the 1080Tis, 3090 or 3080Ti. 3090 was water cooled, new thermal pads, heatsink and fan on backside, mining it ran around 93c on the memory. 3080Ti, you could not mine even low hash rates wo it going above 100c. New thermal pads brought it down in addition good hashrates to 96c to 98c.

2 of the 3 Vega's have memory degradation. These you can not have decent hashrates unless you keep the HBM less than 65c. Even with lower temps I experienced some degradation. These cards mined for several years. Throw aways or give aways these will be.

I do agree memory, and not as much the GPU is stressed.

As for buying any used card, more info, tests and reputation is key.
 

DooLocsta

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I bought a used 290 during the 2014 bust. I ran it hard under air, then water cooled with another reference card I bought at launch. OC'd both of them for a few years right at the limit, both ran flawlessly the whole time. Like everything, price is key. Cheap enough and I would roll the dice on a used card. Not really in need of an upgrade right now though.

I mined Litecoin on a 6950 flashed to 6970 for a bit over 2 years 24/7 in a cool environment. Card still works great in an old box.
 

HockeyJon

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"demand right now" - that was last year.
As seen in this article from 2021:
https://cryptocurrencyfare.com/the-cryptocurrency-move-to-proof-of-stake-could-be-bad-for-nvidia/

And this official from 10K from Jan 2021 that contains the exact word for word quote:
https://s22.q4cdn.com/364334381/fil...1/q4/0ec16816-55e2-4812-8f77-75cab5909247.pdf

And this official quarterly results press release from 2022:
"NVIDIA Announces Financial Results for First Quarter Fiscal 2023
Wednesday, May 25, 2022"
https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-announces-financial-results-for-first-quarter-fiscal-2023

we can deduce that their Fiscal Calendar is like 1 yr advanced, thus older article and may not reflect current state of 2022.


Now for my opinion about that hardwaretimes[.]com "news site": its trash reporting for clicks and not even worth linking out.

So you mean comments from Nvidia in May, after cryptocurrencies have been absolutely spanked, are indicating that there is lower demand from cryptocurrency miners for their video cards? We all agree with that, that’s not under dispute. I didn’t mean “right now” as in right this second, that was bad word choice on my part, but the content of my post was clear for exactly what I was referring to. GPU supply and demand is influenced by the price of crypto. The link is clear, the companies themselves have said as much.
 

GoodBoy

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... which means most video cards made for the past few years are not in the hands of gamers....

I don't think that is correct.

There's no way to really know for sure how many cards are used for this or that. But saying it was 'most' I think is wrong.

The casual miners are mostly also gamers, who want to mine on a card or 2 to help pay for their pc. The serious miners use the special mining boxes and those don't always use GPU's, they use custom asic's, or gpu chips not built into a video card. And those using GPU chip's built onto specific mining purpose cards, do not count as "Graphics cards".

More likely it's just another clickbait article.

That one guy who does all of those reports, statistics.. There was iirc 60 million new gamers in 2020, 10% growth or something (600 million to 660 million). Forget his name or the exact numbers... but it was a lot. 15 billion in sales = 15 million cards if we guesstimate $1,000 average price. Not even 1/4th of the amount of new gamers.

The article's claim doesn't add up.
 
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kirbyrj

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So you mean comments from Nvidia in May, after cryptocurrencies have been absolutely spanked, are indicating that there is lower demand from cryptocurrency miners for their video cards? We all agree with that, that’s not under dispute. I didn’t mean “right now” as in right this second, that was bad word choice on my part, but the content of my post was clear for exactly what I was referring to. GPU supply and demand is influenced by the price of crypto. The link is clear, the companies themselves have said as much.

What you're missing is that Nvidia's Q1'22 revenue is up 46% year over year. Meanwhile Q1'21 was one of the most profitable mining quarter (probably ever) and profitability has been declining ever since. Yet somehow Nvidia revenue is up 46% by selling more GPUs to miners in Q1'22 when there was no realistic ROI and the price of crypto had dropped by ~25-35% at that point from the ATH? So the crypto price and profitability declined, yet there was enough demand for Nvidia to have a record quarter. Not just a record quarter, 46% higher than a quarter where mining was extremely profitable and one where crypto prices were rising to an ATH in April '21. So the link isn't as clear as you'd like to believe.
 

Randall Stephens

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What you're missing is that Nvidia's Q1'22 revenue is up 46% year over year. Meanwhile Q1'21 was one of the most profitable mining quarter (probably ever) and profitability has been declining ever since. Yet somehow Nvidia revenue is up 46% by selling more GPUs to miners in Q1'22 when there was no realistic ROI and the price of crypto had dropped by ~25-35% at that point from the ATH? So the crypto price and profitability declined, yet there was enough demand for Nvidia to have a record quarter. Not just a record quarter, 46% higher than a quarter where mining was extremely profitable and one where crypto prices were rising to an ATH in April '21. So the link isn't as clear as you'd like to believe.
Not discounting your points with my reply, but some mining firms may have had overly optimistic projects about where coin prices were going(and still could be) going long term, and that short term profitability declines would be offsent by long term asset appreciation. Maybe the long game told them to keep rolling the dice on mining...
 

kirbyrj

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Not discounting your points with my reply, but some mining firms may have had overly optimistic projects about where coin prices were going(and still could be) going long term, and that short term profitability declines would be offsent by long term asset appreciation. Maybe the long game told them to keep rolling the dice on mining...

I would argue that large scale mining firms are certainly the minority of miners out there to the point that their demand isn't a blip on the supposed $15 billion in crypto mining revenue, and that if they really were "keeping on rolling the dice" in the scenario you suggest they are likely still using older GPUs (think 1060 6GB and RX570/580s/RX5700s) which they already have in abundance rather than purchasing new GPUs.

Also, remember, the switch to PoS for ETH is coming (regardless of how many times it has been delayed) and they know that the timeframe to recoup costs is dwindling. Since there is no PoW GPU based coin ready to step into the void in terms of profit replacement, the reality is that GPU mining will likely be unprofitable for every GPU for the foreseeable future and certainly not worth big investments needed to swing Nvidia's bottom line.
 
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Randall Stephens

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I would argue that large scale mining firms are certainly the minority of miners out there to the point that their demand isn't a blip on the supposed $15 billion in crypto mining revenue, and that if they really were "keeping on rolling the dice" in the scenario you suggest they are likely still using older GPUs (think 1060 6GB and RX570/580s/RX5700s) which they already have in abundance rather than purchasing new GPUs.

Also, remember, the switch to PoS for ETH is coming (regardless of how many times it has been delayed) and they know that the timeframe to recoup costs is dwindling. Since there is no PoW GPU based coin ready to step into the void in terms of profit replacement, the reality is that GPU mining will likely be unprofitable for every GPU for the foreseeable future and certainly not worth big investments needed to swing Nvidia's bottom line.
Could be. I’m not trying to argue against you, just had another thought on the possibilities of the cause of the results :). Not sure we’ll ever know how much is big time ops vs joe schmuck in his parents’ basement
 
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Dude, this thread is literally based on a consulting company giving an estimate for demand, but the manufacturers themselves have cited this as a significant source of demand. I'll post citations, but if you have decided you're going to ignore the evidence already presented for whatever reason, than I suspect you're just going to ignore this too:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/asus-demand-for-gpus-among-cryptocurrency-miners-is-drying-up

From your link: " “In reality, the demand for gaming is still strong, so we still don’t think we can necessarily meet all of the demand.” "

Yes, let's have a talk about making up our minds and ignoring reality.

Literally nobody is saying that crypto had no impact. Your own links, however, explicitly state that gaming demand alone exceeds supply. So, thanks for providing those citations. I didn't have nearly as conclusive proof that you're wrong before you shared.

That one guy who does all of those reports, statistics.. There was iirc 60 million new gamers in 2020, 10% growth or something (600 million to 660 million). Forget his name or the exact numbers... but it was a lot. 15 billion in sales = 15 million cards if we guesstimate $1,000 average price. Not even 1/4th of the amount of new gamers.

The article's claim doesn't add up.
Even a cursory glance at the Steam Hardware Survey shows how explosively the 30-series took over gaming. It shows faster growth than any other hardware release in the history of the survey. There are more of even just RTX 3060 laptops on there than there are 4K displays.
 

TordanGow

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This. I have been unable to buy a workstation GPU to replace my aging Titan X Pascal for machine learning workflows because the crypto get rich quick people have bought everything up and I'm not paying fuck you prices. Really glad I have the TItan X which has kept up much better with its extra memory than if I had a lower-end card from the same generation.
Agree. Now also do what I'm doing. I won't buy a used card no matter what. Make them eat the hardware cost. It will discourage them from going bonkers again.
 

gsilver

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Crypto can die in a fire... Preferably a fire starting from miners hoarded and damaged video cards
 

DukenukemX

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I just remembered that Linus Tech Tips made a video where he claimed that the shortage was due to us gamers buying the cards and not so much the miners. That video did not age well.
 

funkydmunky

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What you're missing is that Nvidia's Q1'22 revenue is up 46% year over year. Meanwhile Q1'21 was one of the most profitable mining quarter (probably ever) and profitability has been declining ever since. Yet somehow Nvidia revenue is up 46% by selling more GPUs to miners in Q1'22 when there was no realistic ROI and the price of crypto had dropped by ~25-35% at that point from the ATH? So the crypto price and profitability declined, yet there was enough demand for Nvidia to have a record quarter. Not just a record quarter, 46% higher than a quarter where mining was extremely profitable and one where crypto prices were rising to an ATH in April '21. So the link isn't as clear as you'd like to believe.
Depends more on the volume Nvidia was shipping. Production ramped up, not down.
 

Mad[H]atter

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Whatever was this guys original claim to fame? Serious question, why do people listen to this guy and his crew?
He was the Youtube face of NCIX, a now defunct Canadian tech retailer. As for why people listen, I don't watch him so I'm not sure, I just remember him from the NCIX videos.
 

jlbenedict

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Agree. Now also do what I'm doing. I won't buy a used card no matter what. Make them eat the hardware cost. It will discourage them from going bonkers again.

Yup, yup yup...

But unfortunately there are those out there that will go to the used/miner route and purchase their scraps because they are hard-up to get a decent GPU in their rig. If they knew that one of the big reasons they couldn't get a GPU to begin with, was because of the greedy ass miners.. they would give it a second thought.
 

XenIneX

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Whatever was this guys original claim to fame? Serious question, why do people listen to this guy and his crew?
Because well produced, search-engine optimized tech journalism covering diverse interests gets more views than hygiene-optional neckbeards reading off spreadsheets?
 

LukeTbk

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What you're missing is that Nvidia's Q1'22 revenue is up 46% year over year. Meanwhile Q1'21 was one of the most profitable mining quarter (probably ever) and profitability has been declining ever since. Yet somehow Nvidia revenue is up 46% by selling more GPUs to miners in Q1'22 when there was no realistic ROI and the price of crypto had dropped by ~25-35% at that point from the ATH? So the crypto price and profitability declined, yet there was enough demand for Nvidia to have a record quarter. Not just a record quarter, 46% higher than a quarter where mining was extremely profitable and one where crypto prices were rising to an ATH in April '21. So the link isn't as clear as you'd like to believe.

2016 had to have the most profitable quarter according to that source no ?

Couple of pints, Nvidia fiscal year are quite different than actual year it seem to me:

NVIDIA Announces Financial Results for Third Quarter Fiscal 2022​

Wednesday, November 17, 2021

Fiscal year 2022, ended in January of 2022, they announced their Q1 2023 a month ago (NVIDIA's Q1 2023 revenue for its gaming division hit a record of $3.62 billion, up 31), not saying you made a mistake and not adjusted correctly, but it is a possibility to check for.

Secondly, everytime you sell a card that is use to mine, you reduce Eth profitability I think ? An higher profitability yes does mean an higher interest into buying a card, but achieving to buy them usually mean less profitability, making the logic not that strait forward, it is perfectly possible and even expected for the profitability to go down the more Nvidia make profit from Eth mining no ?
 

Lakados

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I just remembered that Linus Tech Tips made a video where he claimed that the shortage was due to us gamers buying the cards and not so much the miners. That video did not age well.

If Crypto bought $15B in GPU's in 2021 that would mean gamers bought just shy of $23B in 2021, AMD and Nvidia both had record production numbers for 2021, so while they didn't produce an extra $15B in cards they did do a solid $9B worth, so really the spread here is only $6B in GPU's. So not statistically insignificant but hardly the harbinger of the end times.
I mean nothing in tech ages well, but there are also a lot of gaps in the original articles Math and does nothing to account for Gamers who mine on the side, would have been happier if it were something socially useful like Folding@home but I get the need for a side hustle.
You see a number like $15B and go "They killed Gaming, those bastards!" but really that is less than 28% of 2021's GPU sales which was up over 30% from 2020.

Edit: I typed 23% it should have said 28%
 
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LukeTbk

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You see a number like $15B and go "They killed Gaming, those bastards!" but really that is less than 23% of 2021's GPU sales which was up over 30% from 2020.
How do you go from 15/(15+23) = less than 23% ?

Seem 40% to me
 

Lakados

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How do you go from 15/(15+23) = less than 23% ?

Seem 40% to me
GPU sales total in 2021 was over $52B, which is up 30% over 2020, 15/52 = 28%.
So really I should have said 28%, not 23% my bad.
But miners didn't just buy gaming GPUs, they also bought workstation GPUs and ASICS. So in reality their $15B in purchasing was significantly less than that in gaming hardware.
 
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LukeTbk

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GPU sales total in 2021 was $52B, which is up 30% over 2020, 15/52 = 28%.
So really I should have said 28%, not 23% my bad.

A ok that include server/datacenter ?

Still 40% of "gaming" GPU that went toward, it would be incredibly massive.

The fact that 2021 was just 30% over 2020 is a big part of the problem of course, in a normal world without an explosion of demand for things GPU needs and supply chain issue hard to imagine it would not have raised to 2017 level when GPU responded to the mining boom demand:

Coovo83KdvnouaADuJgygM-970-80.png
 

Lakados

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A ok that include server/datacenter ?

Still 40% of "gaming" GPU that went toward, it would be incredibly massive.

The fact that 2021 was just 30% over 2020 is a big part of the problem of course, in a normal world without an explosion of demand for things GPU needs and supply chain issue hard to imagine it would not have raised to 2017 level when GPU responded to the mining boom demand:

View attachment 487696
In 2017 there was room to spare at the fabs. They were able to split it between Samsung and TSMC. And neither were pushed to capacity at that stage. So when AMD and Nvidia needed extra capacity it was available. But now not so much, both Samsung and TSMC are pushed to the limits with barely enough wiggle room for maintenance downtime. The fact they could squeeze out that extra 30% they did this year was a minor miracle.
 

Sycraft

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Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
5,137
Agree. Now also do what I'm doing. I won't buy a used card no matter what. Make them eat the hardware cost. It will discourage them from going bonkers again.
That, sadly, will never happen. Humans are greedy and when a gold rush comes along, they'll jump on it. Doesn't matter how stupid said gold rush is, doesn't even matter if they are clearly late to the party and not likely to make money, greed gets in the way and people jump in.

Sadly it'll just keep happening until something kills crypto... which may never happen ><
 

DukenukemX

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
6,320
Whatever was this guys original claim to fame? Serious question, why do people listen to this guy and his crew?
Sometimes they do produce a video that's actually worth watching. That was not one of them, but yea there are times I watch something they made that I didn't know about. Not many people who review Apple products will also review other products as well and compare the two. Not that Linus Tech Tips does a very good job at this, but I'm probably not gonna see Gamers Nexus do anything like this. Gamers Nexus's review on the PS5 was really good. Unfortunately Linus's crew make a lot of videos on how to build a PC with a twist. We've all built PC's so nobody cares to see yet another overpriced budget build. If not that then videos on home improvements to his home, which I see as a great way to write it off as a tax expense and make a crappy video on what is essentially YouTube rock stars remodeling their houses.
 

DukenukemX

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Messages
6,320
My opinion and foil hat is after when the last crypto boom of 2017 and crash of 2018, we saw a very different lineup from AMD and Nvidia. The GTX 1060 and the RX 480's were very popular to the point that they're still one of the most popular products used to play games on Steam. The 1060 is still #1. These products were $200 to $300 GPU's that after the 2018 crash you could pick up for $100-$150 depending on the type of cards. What exactly has AMD and Nvidia made in that price range since then? Nvidia made the 1650 and 1660's for that price range but I would hardly call those a worthy upgrade over the 1060. AMD had the RX 5550 which was worse than the RX 480's and 580's, but also priced higher than the going rate of those older cards. Since then you don't see any cards in that price range despite the sad reality that nobody is using anything but GTX 1060's and RX 480/580's on Steam. The thing is the more you go down the list the worse the cards get. From Nvidia you have the 1050 and 1050 Ti and AMD has the RX 470 and 570. You go down further in AMD's list you see Vega 8.

So either AMD and Nvidia have both decided to coincidentally exit the $200-$300 GPU market, even after several years that both Nvidia's RTX cards and AMD's RDNA card's can't seem to dethrone these 2016 cards, or AMD and Nvidia have agreed to avoid pricing their products in that price range in hopes to bring their customers into the $300's and $400's plus range, also known as price fixing. I obviously have no evidence of this, hence why I said it's a tin foil hat opinion. You can't tell me that this segment of the market that clearly won't budge from their $200-$300 price range, is not something that at least AMD won't jump in just to grab market share. During the pandemic neither AMD nor Nvidia had any reason to even think of supplying a GPU in that price range, but this was going on long before the pandemic started. The market is about to flood with these GPU's that will most likely fall into the $200-$300 price range, used. It would be silly to offer a RX 7900 XT or Nvidia 4090 when the majority of your customers are going to buy your previous generation of products used, for a much cheaper price. This is all assuming that the economy doesn't go into a recession, which would drive the price of used GPU's down even further.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
5,986
My opinion and foil hat is after when the last crypto boom of 2017 and crash of 2018, we saw a very different lineup from AMD and Nvidia. The GTX 1060 and the RX 480's were very popular to the point that they're still one of the most popular products used to play games on Steam. The 1060 is still #1. These products were $200 to $300 GPU's that after the 2018 crash you could pick up for $100-$150 depending on the type of cards. What exactly has AMD and Nvidia made in that price range since then? Nvidia made the 1650 and 1660's for that price range but I would hardly call those a worthy upgrade over the 1060. AMD had the RX 5550 which was worse than the RX 480's and 580's, but also priced higher than the going rate of those older cards. Since then you don't see any cards in that price range despite the sad reality that nobody is using anything but GTX 1060's and RX 480/580's on Steam. The thing is the more you go down the list the worse the cards get. From Nvidia you have the 1050 and 1050 Ti and AMD has the RX 470 and 570. You go down further in AMD's list you see Vega 8.

So either AMD and Nvidia have both decided to coincidentally exit the $200-$300 GPU market, even after several years that both Nvidia's RTX cards and AMD's RDNA card's can't seem to dethrone these 2016 cards, or AMD and Nvidia have agreed to avoid pricing their products in that price range in hopes to bring their customers into the $300's and $400's plus range, also known as price fixing. I obviously have no evidence of this, hence why I said it's a tin foil hat opinion. You can't tell me that this segment of the market that clearly won't budge from their $200-$300 price range, is not something that at least AMD won't jump in just to grab market share. During the pandemic neither AMD nor Nvidia had any reason to even think of supplying a GPU in that price range, but this was going on long before the pandemic started. The market is about to flood with these GPU's that will most likely fall into the $200-$300 price range, used. It would be silly to offer a RX 7900 XT or Nvidia 4090 when the majority of your customers are going to buy your previous generation of products used, for a much cheaper price. This is all assuming that the economy doesn't go into a recession, which would drive the price of used GPU's down even further.
TSMC’s price hikes make releasing a card at that price basically impossible. 2021 saw a 70% increase alone but it’s been a solid inflation + 5-10% (depends on node) before that. Between 2016 and now you are looking at 22% inflation so cost wise you are looking at wafer costs being between 117 and 142% price increase on TSMC’s time since 2017 now factor in silicon costs, price increases to memory and metals and right now the kind of GPU you could make and sell for $300 while still turning a profit is pretty pathetic.

We need Intel to get their fabs off the ground and offer alternatives to TSMC and sadly we need to see the US and Australia signing more mining permits. China dominates the supply on most of the metals needed and they are choking supply
 

DukenukemX

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
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Messages
6,320
TSMC’s price hikes make releasing a card at that price basically impossible. 2021 saw a 70% increase alone but it’s been a solid inflation + 5-10% (depends on node) before that.
So what about 2018 and 2020? The pandemic didn't hit until early 2020 so there's no reason to have avoid that segment of the market.
Between 2016 and now you are looking at 22% inflation so cost wise you are looking at wafer costs being between 117 and 142% price increase on TSMC’s time since 2017 now factor in silicon costs, price increases to memory and metals and right now the kind of GPU you could make and sell for $300 while still turning a profit is pretty pathetic.
I don't care for inflation as we're about to see a massive deflation event occur. The fact that GTX 1060's are still #1 should show that maybe AMD and Nvidia need to find a more economical way to make GPU's. The RTX 2060 was released because the demand for them skyrocketed because they were the cheapest. For a lot of people the 12nm RTX 2060's is more than enough of an upgrade over a GTX 1060.
We need Intel to get their fabs off the ground and offer alternatives to TSMC and sadly we need to see the US and Australia signing more mining permits. China dominates the supply on most of the metals needed and they are choking supply
Sure but I don't think AMD or Nvidia would still price their products bellow $300. Now Intel is a different story when they finally get their new GPU's out in customers hands.
 
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