Crypto Miners, Not Gamers, Were The Primary Buyers of Graphics Cards Since 2021, Almost $15 Billion Worth of GPU Sales Reported

kac77

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legcramp

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This means that every crypto graphics card that was bought during the 2021-craze will now have to be sold at a major loss.
Hmmmm I don't know when I did my taxes the mining income was more than the hardware cost by a pretty good margin... not to mention any write-offs to the hardware for depreciation, electric, etc. I'd say most miners are sitting pretty right now unless they went to eBay to buy overpriced stuff at the beginning of 2022 or end of 2021.
 

DukenukemX

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"The sudden decline in GPU prices has also made it really hard for crypto miners to recoup their losses since the crypto drop also prompted a drop in graphics card prices. Most crypto miners got their graphics cards are obnoxious rates, hitting almost 3x the MSRP back in 2021.""
Oh no miners didn't make money. :LOL: I really don't care because these people decided not only to ruin my hobby but also ruin the environment by wasting electrify for fake money. Bitcoin already hit $18k and will probably continue to drop more as the market can't dump enough crypto. Anyone remember what I said about the rubber band effect, in that when you overprice something too high it will crash down even further than it was originally? Don't be surprised if some RTX and AMD RDNA2 cards end up for sub $200 on Ebay. Most people who play games are using GTX 1060's and 1660's, which means most video cards made for the past few years are not in the hands of gamers. They're in the hands of miners who are gonna start flooding the market with GPU's and will not only have to fight AMD and Nvidia, but soon Intel as well. While I'm sure AMD and Nvidia will try to entice people away from used GPU's, I don't think anyone really cares what they release this year. Remember back in 2017 when crypto crashed and GTX 1060's and RX480/580's were $100? Wonder why those are still popular in Valve's Steam Survey? That's where I see RTX 2060's and RX 5700's heading. I already see RTX 2060's for $250 and RX 5700's for $300. RX 6600's are less than $300 on Ebay so I don't see the RX 5700's at $300 making much sense. The RX 6600 XT is about the same as the RX 5700 on Ebay.
 

AVT

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Oh no miners didn't make money. :LOL: I really don't care because these people decided not only to ruin my hobby but also ruin the environment by wasting electrify for fake money

This. I have been unable to buy a workstation GPU to replace my aging Titan X Pascal for machine learning workflows because the crypto get rich quick people have bought everything up and I'm not paying fuck you prices. Really glad I have the TItan X which has kept up much better with its extra memory than if I had a lower-end card from the same generation.
 

DukenukemX

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Classic duke line lol.
I know some of you are miners here and those of you can go ahead and have a financial death. Here's some classic duke advice, and that's to sell your cards now. Crypto isn't recovering for a number of years so I'd start selling them now before everyone dumps them into the market. Right now people are waiting to see if there's a recovery, so there isn't a great sell off yet. AMD and Nvidia are certainly going to fight back with newer better products. Intel is planning to enter the market as well. Start now before you lose even more value for your GPU.
breaking-bad-walter-white.gif
 

DukenukemX

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I live in buttfuck nowhere Canada and even I can head down to any computer store and buy a range of 30 series cards. Have been able to for a while. I also got hit with my EVGA notify queue, which seems to be happening as well.

If you never look, I guess you'll never find one and then you can just keep on crying.
Personal experience as always means nothing. You can certainly find GPU's for sale now because of the changing market, but you certainly couldn't find one before. You can certainly enter a queue and get one but most GPU's MSRP is also overpriced. Most people buy $200 - $300 priced GPU's and anything above that is considered high end. Everything for the past few years has been over $300.

 

FlawleZ

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Bankie

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I know some of you are miners here and those of you can go ahead and have a financial death. Here's some classic duke advice, and that's to sell your cards now. Crypto isn't recovering for a number of years so I'd start selling them now before everyone dumps them into the market. Right now people are waiting to see if there's a recovery, so there isn't a great sell off yet. AMD and Nvidia are certainly going to fight back with newer better products. Intel is planning to enter the market as well. Start now before you lose even more value for your GPU.
Some friends of mine that mine Eth have been talking about buying more 3090s recently.
 

Gideon

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Some friends of mine that mine Eth have been talking about buying more 3090s recently.
Why, is making a dollar a day or so, really worth it? Not to mention it's summer time and it will make the A/C run even more which will degrade profits even further. Bitcoin is a mess right now and may not recover if it shakes the faith of people that invested in it. I expect a massive sell off of video cards is coming.
 

NightReaver

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Why, is making a dollar a day or so, really worth it? Not to mention it's summer time and it will make the A/C run even more which will degrade profits even further. Bitcoin is a mess right now and may not recover if it shakes the faith of people that invested in it. I expect a massive sell off of video cards is coming.
Some people really are true believers.
 

undertaker2k8

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Lol again the hating on miners crap...neither a true believer (would be much richer if I was) nor a hater but setting up mining rigs over the past 18 months added a lot to my working knowledge of PC hardware so definitely a worthwhile experience even if I end up in the red at the end of the day. This is HardForum, with Hard ostensibly standing for Hardware, which includes all computer and electronics, not just GamerForum...
 

Bankie

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Why, is making a dollar a day or so, really worth it? Not to mention it's summer time and it will make the A/C run even more which will degrade profits even further. Bitcoin is a mess right now and may not recover if it shakes the faith of people that invested in it. I expect a massive sell off of video cards is coming.
They've made thousands of dollars (above the GPU costs and electric) over the past year or so. One of them makes enough per month to offset a good chunk of his rent (the other owns so pockets the money).
 

Varmint

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Oh no miners didn't make money. :LOL: I really don't care because these people decided not only to ruin my hobby but also ruin the environment by wasting electrify for fake money. Bitcoin already hit $18k and will probably continue to drop more as the market can't dump enough crypto. Anyone remember what I said about the rubber band effect, in that when you overprice something too high it will crash down even further than it was originally? Don't be surprised if some RTX and AMD RDNA2 cards end up for sub $200 on Ebay. Most people who play games are using GTX 1060's and 1660's, which means most video cards made for the past few years are not in the hands of gamers. They're in the hands of miners who are gonna start flooding the market with GPU's and will not only have to fight AMD and Nvidia, but soon Intel as well. While I'm sure AMD and Nvidia will try to entice people away from used GPU's, I don't think anyone really cares what they release this year. Remember back in 2017 when crypto crashed and GTX 1060's and RX480/580's were $100? Wonder why those are still popular in Valve's Steam Survey? That's where I see RTX 2060's and RX 5700's heading. I already see RTX 2060's for $250 and RX 5700's for $300. RX 6600's are less than $300 on Ebay so I don't see the RX 5700's at $300 making much sense. The RX 6600 XT is about the same as the RX 5700 on Ebay.

I'm noticing that GPUDrops is recently clogged up with used cards from Amazon. Wish you could tell it to ignore used cards.

Bitcoin will probably bounce soon so this could take a while.
 

Varmint

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I live in buttfuck nowhere Canada and even I can head down to any computer store and buy a range of 30 series cards. Have been able to for a while. I also got hit with my EVGA notify queue, which seems to be happening as well.

If you never look, I guess you'll never find one and then you can just keep on crying.

Yes you can easily find all kinds of cards, 3060 Ti's for $550, 3070s for $650 and 3070 Ti's for $700. Yay.
 
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This. I have been unable to buy a workstation GPU to replace my aging Titan X Pascal for machine learning workflows because the crypto get rich quick people have bought everything up and I'm not paying fuck you prices. Really glad I have the TItan X which has kept up much better with its extra memory than if I had a lower-end card from the same generation.
What GPU are you looking to replace it with?
 

Lakados

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Sure it did. GPUs were much more abundant prior to the crypto collapse. Because suddenly they started producing more GPUs go figure. All you have now is more used cards available.

And nobody can tell me why I can't buy a PS5 which doesn't mine at all.
AMD has a problem with the PS5 and XBox silicon, it's failure rates are terrible almost 40% by some estimates. They have been taking the failed silicon and turning them into cheap PC's for India and China
 

LukeTbk

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Crypto Miners, Not Gamers, Were The Primary Buyers of Graphics Cards Since 2021, Almost $15 Billion Worth of GPU Sales Reported

By Hassan Mujtaba / Jun 19, 2022 04:00 EDT
...
"The sudden decline in GPU prices has also made it really hard for crypto miners to recoup their losses since the crypto drop also prompted a drop in graphics card prices. Most crypto miners got their graphics cards are obnoxious rates, hitting almost 3x the MSRP back in 2021.""

I get not putting the actual article because it is behind a paywall, but there is no mention that miners not gamers were the primary buyers of graphic cards since 2021 and considering AIB discrete GPUs sales were above 13 billions a quarter at some point 2021, not sure the numbers point to that, specially if they were buying a lot of them at higher price on ebay. Or at least the article does not give any notion of how/why they arrive to that conclusion.

Hmmmm I don't know when I did my taxes the mining income was more than the hardware cost by a pretty good margin... not to mention any write-offs to the hardware for depreciation, electric, etc. I'd say most miners are sitting pretty right now unless they went to eBay to buy overpriced stuff at the beginning of 2022 or end of 2021.
The sentence you quote explicitly say bought during the 2021-craze
 

Varmint

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And you have been able to do so since January or February. Linking availability to the current crypto price doesn't support the evidence.

I thought it was deemed to be the move to proof of stake for Ethereum causing the change in availability a few months ago. I'm sure the end of $5 trillion in handouts also was a factor.

The crypto price crash is like 5 weeks old, bit early to see the effect of that.
 

Varmint

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AMD has a problem with the PS5 and XBox silicon, it's failure rates are terrible almost 40% by some estimates. They have been taking the failed silicon and turning them into cheap PC's for India and China

Curious what you mean, PS5 and XBox are both coming from TSMC's 7nm right, with the XBox die being bigger? I've not heard TSMC has 7nm yield problems, or do you mean the chips are failing after exiting TSMC?
 

Gideon

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They've made thousands of dollars (above the GPU costs and electric) over the past year or so. One of them makes enough per month to offset a good chunk of his rent (the other owns so pockets the money).
Key word is "had", current rates for mining ETH is not worth the trouble and thus why people are dumping cards or are about to. I see no good reason at all to buy a new card hoping to make a profit on it before ETH goes proof of stake. Biggest problem is Bitcoin itself has crashed and is struggling to remain at 20K valuation and that puts it right at a cliff where things could super ugly fast.
 

Lakados

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Curious what you mean, PS5 and XBox are both coming from TSMC's 7nm right, with the XBox die being bigger? I've not heard TSMC has 7nm yield problems, or do you mean the chips are failing after exiting TSMC?
Yes, they are having problems with the GPU cores not functioning correctly, it is not a TSMC issue but a design one. But the failure rates are high enough that AMD has been able to brand and supply the 4700s platform.
 

FlawleZ

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Sure it did. GPUs were much more abundant prior to the crypto collapse. Because suddenly they started producing more GPUs go figure. All you have now is more used cards available.

And nobody can tell me why I can't buy a PS5 which doesn't mine at all.
Wait, what? Literally the opposite. Only in the recent weeks to month or so have GPUs been attainable from retailers. I'm not talking about the 3090s that sat on the shelf for $2500 price tags. Demand is lower and the availability of nearly all GPUs as well as major price drops clearly prove that. Demand isn't lower because less people are playing games. It's lower because the miners aren't buying more GPUs from retailers or manufacturers.
 

kirbyrj

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Wait, what? Literally the opposite. Only in the recent weeks to month or so have GPUs been attainable from retailers. I'm not talking about the 3090s that sat on the shelf for $2500 price tags. Demand is lower and the availability of nearly all GPUs as well as major price drops clearly prove that. Demand isn't lower because less people are playing games. It's lower because the miners aren't buying more GPUs from retailers or manufacturers.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention. Cards have been in stock regularly since February when BTC was $40k. Nvidia shipped extra cards in Q1'21 compared to previous quarters. So Nvidia has increased production, GPUs are in stock, and declining crypto prices months after the fact is the cause. Sounds legit...
 
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LukeTbk

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And you have been able to do so since January or February. Linking availability to the current crypto price doesn't support the evidence.
Has a completel neophyte, would looking at the monthlu change of hash rate:
https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate

Something better to look at than crypto price ?

If that hash rate is somewhat accurate, global hash rate was similar december 9 2021 to January 6 2022 and quite close to february 10, hash rate change will not be simply how many cards are added/removed (but how far you push those you have I imagine) but it would be a better indirect metric than crypto price ?
 
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kirbyrj

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Has a completel neophyte, would looking at the monthlu change of hash rate:
https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate

Something better to look at than crypto price ?

If that hash rate is someone accurate, global hash rate was similar december 9 2021 to January 6 2022 and quite close to february 10, hash rate change will not be simply how many cards are added/removed (but how far you push those you have I imagine) but it would be a better indirect metric than crypto price ?

The hash rate of BTC has nothing to do with GPU availability as no one mines BTC on GPUs. I didn't look too hard on that site to see if it had ETH rates.
 

xenium

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Has a completel neophyte, would looking at the monthlu change of hash rate:
https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate

Something better to look at than crypto price ?

If that hash rate is someone accurate, global hash rate was similar december 9 2021 to January 6 2022 and quite close to february 10, hash rate change will not be simply how many cards are added/removed (but how far you push those you have I imagine) but it would be a better indirect metric than crypto price ?
Profitability/MH is probably the best chart to see where demand is at for gpu's

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/ethereum-mining_profitability.html
 

LukeTbk

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The hash rate of BTC has nothing to do with GPU availability as no one mines BTC on GPUs. I didn't look too hard on that site to see if it had ETH rates.
I thought it was ETH without looking at the clear bitcoin network mention, I wanted that one:
https://www.coinwarz.com/mining/ethereum/hashrate-chart

The 30 days moving average of the provided link:

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/ethereum-mining_profitability.html

Is not bad (specially for third market pricing, I would imagine)
 

kirbyrj

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I thought it was ETH without looking at the clear bitcoin network mention, I wanted that one:
https://www.coinwarz.com/mining/ethereum/hashrate-chart

The 30 days moving average of the provided link:

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/ethereum-mining_profitability.html

Is not bad (specially for third market pricing, I would imagine)

Once again, that chart shows that the ETH hash rate increased significantly while GPU availability got better since the beginning of 2022. If GPU availability were tied to hash rate, you would expect ~25% less cards on the market in order to increase the hash rate 25%.
 

kac77

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I get not putting the actual article because it is behind a paywall, but there is no mention that miners not gamers were the primary buyers of graphic cards since 2021 and considering AIB discrete GPUs sales were above 13 billions a quarter at some point 2021, not sure the numbers point to that, specially if they were buying a lot of them at higher price on ebay. Or at least the article does not give any notion of how/why they arrive to that conclusion.
The sentence you quote explicitly say bought during the 2021-craze
It's not behind a paywall. I don't put the entire article because it's not fair to the site who is hosting the content. So I put an important snippet and leave links to the full article.
 

LukeTbk

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LukeTbk

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Once again, that chart shows that the ETH hash rate increased significantly while GPU availability got better since the beginning of 2022. If GPU availability were tied to hash rate, you would expect ~25% less cards on the market in order to increase the hash rate 25%.
How could it be possible for hash to have no impact to GPU availability ? Anythign that use GPU will have (when they are were selling all of them like they did), it is obviously not the only demand or factor), every gamer finally putting their hands on one decrease it and after year of them trying too it will ease down.

I am not sure how the 25% less cards in order to increase the hars rate 25% notion come from or the conclusion that it need to be that ratio for GPU availability to be affected, we are obviously not talking about purely tied too.
 

kirbyrj

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I'm saying hash rate increased by 25% but GPU availability got significantly better.

That indicates to me that hash rate and GPU availability aren't correlated contrary to what the average poster in this thread seems to imply.
 
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LukeTbk

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I'm saying hash rate increased by 25% but GPU availability got significantly better.
Increased by 25% between which date that GPU availability got significantly better ?

I am not sure % of increase is the best metric here (instead of raw hash increase), according to the graph there is a 100% increase between january and may 2021 and other 100% increase between june 2021 and january 2022, a 25% increase could be quite low in term of harsh increase depending on the time frame.
 
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