Corning Responds To Worrying Galaxy Note 7 Scratch Test Video

Megalith

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A Gorilla Glass 5 scratch test published this week put Corning’s latest effort on the Note 7 to the test, and results were disheartening. The company has officially responded, but many remain skeptical of whether GG5 is as good as advertised.

I spoke with two of Corning’s senior spokespeople, Jaymin Amin, Corning’s vp of technology, and Jon Pasansky, Corning’s business technical director for Gorilla Glass. For starters, and as you may have already guessed, concerns were raised about the reliability of the test itself. Amin noted, “the test that was conducted in the video is obviously not a bonafide industry test. It’s using Mohs hardness picks but it’s in an uncontrolled manner. We also don’t know a whole lot about what loads the person has used. Whether those loads are changing as he goes through the testing.”
 

GotNoRice

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Gorilla Glass is not unscratchable. My question is, is it worse than previous versions of Gorilla Glass? I'm still using my old Note 2, with a much older version of Gorilla Glass. In the 4 years I've had it, I've managed to not scratch my screen even one single time.
 
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Bandalo

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It's nearly impossible to make a single material that is both shatter and scratch resistant. (toughness vs hardness) You almost always have to trade one for the other.
 
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5icko

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Gorilla Glass is not unscratchable. My question is, is it worse than previous versions of Gorilla Glass? I'm still using my old Note 2, with a much older version of Gorilla Glass. In the 4 years I've had it, I've managed to not scratch my screen even one single time.

Watch the video already.
 

pxc

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Wow, it's almost as bad as plastic for scratch resistance. That's a huge step backwards.
 

nightanole

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android authority have spoken with the makers of gg5 and this is what they said I spoke with two of Corning’s senior spokespeople, Jaymin Amin, Corning’s vp of technology, and Jon Pasansky, Corning’s business technical director for Gorilla Glass. For starters, and as you may have already guessed, concerns were raised about the reliability of the test itself. Amin noted, “the test that was conducted in the video is obviously not a bonafide industry test. It’s using Mohs hardness picks but it’s in an uncontrolled manner. We also don’t know a whole lot about what loads the person has used. Whether those loads are changing as he goes through the testing.” I argued that Zack has performed this test over 30 times and that even outside a laboratory setting, there must be at least some degree of consistency in his approach and execution. The idea was shut down immediately, with the (apparently obvious) fact that all glass falls between a Mohs hardness of 5-6, something which Pasansky told me “has been validated several times during the development process here at Corning.” So a Mohs pick of 3 cannot scratch glass with a hardness of 5 or 6. So far so busted. So if the Gorilla Glass 5 in the video is indeed a 5 or a 6 on Mohs scale of hardness, what gives? The answer is actually quite simple, and one that probably should have been self-evident. As Amin explained: The hardness pick that was used in the video was a 3, that’s considerably softer than the glass material. Oftentimes when you have a softer material like that, and depending on what kind of loads you have used, you tend to see material transfer on the test substrate. Material transfer on the test substrate is not necessarily a scratch but it can appear to the untrained eye as a pretty visible scratch. We don’t know whether or not that is what is being seen in the video. Certainly in the testing we’ve done internally, we don’t see that issue at all with similar picks on the Mohs hardness scale. Pasansky expanded by saying, “We have conducted controlled pick hardness tests on GG5 and we have demonstrated that this material transfer phenomena can occur. It is characteristic of the lower pick hardnesses during the tests.” So, if Corning’s theory is accurate, what we’re likely seeing in the video is actually the metal pick “rubbing off” on the glass material, not the pick scratching the glass. But the video certainly seems to show progressively worse scratches as the pick hardness increases – which would be logical if indeed the pick is scratching the glass. So if what we’re seeing is a soft material being transferred onto the glass, shouldn’t the effect become less noticeable as the picks become harder? Pasansky explained: It’s a function of the difference in the hardness of the materials, but in particular the load is very important. So you could have a lower hardness pick with a much higher load and still achieve a condition that would look like a slightly higher hardness pick with a lighter load. It’s a combination of pressure and material hardness differences that exist between the pick and the material that’s being contacted.” Corning clearly doesn’t want to accuse Zack of rigging the results, but something still didn’t seem quite right to me. Inverting the hardness and load for a pretty banal scandal seemed all too Machiavellian for a YouTuber. To get everything out in the open, I asked if Gorilla Glass 5 was at least as scratch resistant as Gorilla Glass 4. The response felt a little like it dodged the question. “The glass is designed to improve the drop performance and not necessarily designed to improve the scratch performance,” Amin told me. He went on to say, “When we consider all hardness tests, GG5 is actually harder than GG4. Based on our testing, for scratch performance as well as the hardness testing we do that’s widely used in the industry, we believe that GG5 should be performing similarly to GG4.” The use of the word “similarly” struck me. The same word appears on the product information sheet for Gorilla Glass 5. The kind of promotional material that is typically overflowing with percentage increases and quantifiable numbers. Saying “similar” sounded like Gorilla Glass 5 might not be as scratch resistant as its predecessor, so I asked again: is Gorilla Glass 5 at least as scratch resistant as Gorilla Glass 4? The answer: “Yes, that is correct.” With all hope of an exciting conspiracy seemingly down the gurgler, I asked if Corning could explain the relationship between scratch resistance and shatter-resistance, to allay any fears about one coming at the cost of the other. I mentioned a comment I had seen “explaining” that the shock absorbency and flexibility of Gorilla Glass 5 means it is softer and thus more prone to surface abrasions. Once again, Pasansky pointed out the seemingly obvious: “There might be a misconception in the thought process [about shock absorbency and flexibility]. What we’ve done with GG5 is designed to maximize the damage resistance of the glass itself. What that does is provide additional resistance to the flaws that get introduced during drop events and provide additional retained strength during those drop events so you can have higher drop performance. That’s slightly different than thinking about it from a shock absorbance or flexibility perspective. It’s actually more about preventing flaws in glass, which is a brittle material, not about making a soft, shock absorbing material.” Amin continued by saying that “we’ve just continued down the path of improving damage resistance in the glass. The glass is a new composition that, through the strengthening process, achieves greater damage resistance. That’s what has contributed to the enhanced drop performance of GG5.” Feeling thoroughly out-scienced, I asked if the cleaning cloth Zack uses in the video in an attempt to wipe off the “scratches” would be sufficient to remove transferred pick material. Pasansky sealed the coffin shut: “It can be very, very difficult to remove metallic material transfer from glass. It is very atypical to see in a field return when we look at scratches of glass, that kind of characteristic, but purely visual, perceived damage that is actually a material on top of the surface.” So while there may not be a grand conspiracy after all, if a material deposited on top of your Gorilla Glass 5 looks and feels like a scratch to the untrained eye – which I’m sure we all have – does the fact that it’s technically not a scratch matter? To Corning it obviously does, but to the everyday consumer, a marked up screen is a marked up screen: whether it’s from scratches or material transference. So to avoid (what may appear to be) display glass damage on your phone, buy a case, get a screen protector and please, avoid scratching your new Galaxy Note 7 with a soft metallic pick. Do you think we’re seeing material transference? Will you put a screen protector on your Note 7 just in case? Note: Edited incorrect spelling of names. Also, for those that think Corning is trying to pull one over on consumers, rest assured, if they are, this will all come out eventually. Me being out-scienced in this instance won’t change that.
 

nightanole

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wow that is horrible to read. TL:DR Corning is saying its metallic transfer from the pick to the phone. The phone is not getting scratched, its getting written on by the pick, and its next to impossible to remove.

I dont know how to feel about that. Ok so my phone is not getting scratched, but it still has a permanent mark on the screen that looks and feels like a scratch.
 

gxp500

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It’s using Mohs hardness picks but it’s in an uncontrolled manner.

Since when are scratches to the screen ever done in a controlled manner? This seems to have a plastic screen just like the s7 active, wont break easily but it'll scratch easily.
 
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pxc

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A: That pick didn't scratch GG5, GG5 scratched the pick.
B: Either way, it still looks like a scratch on the screen.
A: Shut up.
 

rudy

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Here is the problem with gorilla glass, it has a hardness of about 7, but so does sand, the most common environmental insult your screen is likely to see. Conclusion? Gorilla glass isn't going to help you much. You must use a screen protector or at the very least use a bumper case that lifts the screen off any surface with any phone you use.

I think a far more important feature would be to shift away from scratch resistance and shift toward impact resistance, which is what GG5 claims to do but we will see if it pans out. Then just focus on regular screen protector changes. Now days a shattered screen in what are largely sealed up phones is pretty much game over for any phone as the phone becomes totaled.

Another note, (no pun intended) all Samsungs new curved displays while they look cool are really difficult to make good looking clean screen protectors for.

Also there is an interesting response from corning where they talk about how they dont know how the pressure was applied which is an important point people forget, even a softer material can scratch if more pressure is applied. All more reasons why I always use screen protectors.
 
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Gorilla Glass is not unscratchable. My question is, is it worse than previous versions of Gorilla Glass? I'm still using my old Note 2, with a much older version of Gorilla Glass. In the 4 years I've had it, I've managed to not scratch my screen even one single time.

Guess who posted without watching the video.
 

nilepez

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wow that is horrible to read. TL:DR Corning is saying its metallic transfer from the pick to the phone. The phone is not getting scratched, its getting written on by the pick, and its next to impossible to remove.

I dont know how to feel about that. Ok so my phone is not getting scratched, but it still has a permanent mark on the screen that looks and feels like a scratch.

Liking the first part of this. Is it a permanent mark? I would think if something came off of the thing they rubbed against the glass, then it can be cleaned off. That said, you can always add one of those plastic (or glass) protectors. Honestly, I don't think it matters, unless you're planning to resell it within a year. If you are, then keeping it pristine definitely improves the resale value.
 

spinach_chin

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wow that is horrible to read. TL:DR Corning is saying its metallic transfer from the pick to the phone. The phone is not getting scratched, its getting written on by the pick, and its next to impossible to remove.

I dont know how to feel about that. Ok so my phone is not getting scratched, but it still has a permanent mark on the screen that looks and feels like a scratch.
How often are you going to rub a Mohs hardness testing pick against your screen?
 

spinach_chin

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This is the problem with tools of science being used in decidedly unscientific tests by laypeople.
 

ol1bit

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I think it scratches easier. Maybe it's more shatter proof, but I really hate scratched screens. I had an HTC Rezound that scratched fairly easy, not even keys in my pocket, I have been much happier with the HTC One M7, zero scratches, but I had one fall from it's side to face down on concrete and shattered the screen, a zero inch fall. I'd still take that over scratching easy.
 

rat

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How often are you going to rub a Mohs hardness testing pick against your screen?

When my keys end up in the same pocket as my phone.

Or coins.

Or bits of plastic from things like mint containers.

Deliberate scratching with a pick or accidental scratching due to use are effectively the same thing in the end: a scratch on the screen.
 

dyzophoria

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Just for the sake of a more controlled environment (to make the test look more valid), I think he should have used a device that could apply the same amount of pressure with the different Mohs picks. You wanted to use Mohs picks, why not take the extra step? otherwise I would just have used one key to test between an old phone and the new one :D
 
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Personally I've found that scratches are a much more annoying and common issue than cracked screens. I don't remember the last time I dropped my phone, but scratches just appear out of nowhere. It seems like the more careful I try to be, the more scratches appear. Either that or phones have regressed in terms of scratch resistance.
 

nilepez

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When my keys end up in the same pocket as my phone.
Or coins.
Or bits of plastic from things like mint containers.
Deliberate scratching with a pick or accidental scratching due to use are effectively the same thing in the end: a scratch on the screen.

Phone meet my back pocket ;) Of course I have a phablet so the front pocket doesn't work.

The other option (at least with an iPhone) is just leave the original plastic on the front and toss it in a thin case. I did that with my iPhone 6 and it worked very well. The reality is that if you toss it in with keys, it's going to get fine scratches, but the ones on my phone are invisible when the phone is on and I only notice them if the screen is off and the light hits it right.
 

TekRok

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They keep making their phones more expensive, but cut corners in the process as well.

People hate on Apple everyday, but at least they make every consecutive phone model BETTER in every way, and price it the same. Draw your conclusions there...
 

rat

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They keep making their phones more expensive, but cut corners in the process as well.

People hate on Apple everyday, but at least they make every consecutive phone model BETTER in every way, and price it the same. Draw your conclusions there...



wastednewiphone.png


Dunno man, each generation seems to have new dealbreakers that people tend to excuse as a minor issue. Low resolution, lack of enough ram to multitask, thinner and thinner to where they're structurally deficient, now talk of their removing the headphones jack...
 
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View attachment 6926

Dunno man, each generation seems to have new dealbreakers that people tend to excuse as a minor issue. Low resolution, lack of enough ram to multitask, thinner and thinner to where they're structurally deficient, now talk of their removing the headphones jack...

Funny how my iPhone 6 had none of those issues. I had a GS6 Edge. Not once did I notice the higher resolution, although the AMOLED screen is way better than any LCD. But you wouldn't know because you only use phones running one OS.
 

TekRok

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View attachment 6926

Dunno man, each generation seems to have new dealbreakers that people tend to excuse as a minor issue. Low resolution, lack of enough ram to multitask, thinner and thinner to where they're structurally deficient, now talk of their removing the headphones jack...
You do realize this only happened to people that put the phone into very tight pockets, right? Not once have I seen this happen to a person with a case that didnt put it in their tight ass jeans. And guess what? Apple took a proactive approach and exchanged every bent phone. Good luck getting warranty service on your Android phone, youll be waiting for it for weeks until its fixed.
 
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[citation needed]

Your posts make it quite clear. The people who bitched about "ram issues" and "multitasking issues" were those who never used the newer iPhones or used old iOS devices from 3+ years ago. I mean you can link random pictures of destroyed iPhones all you want though.
 

rat

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Your posts make it quite clear. The people who bitched about "ram issues" and "multitasking issues" were those who never used the newer iPhones or used old iOS devices from 3+ years ago. I mean you can link random pictures of destroyed iPhones all you want though.

I had an iPad Air when it was new. I found it lacking. I couldn't do half of what I was able to do on any other device, Windows Phone included, unless I jailbroke the iPad. Half of what I had to jailbreak for I could do on Android without modification.
 
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I had an iPad Air when it was new. I found it lacking. I couldn't do half of what I was able to do on any other device, Windows Phone included, unless I jailbroke the iPad. Half of what I had to jailbreak for I could do on Android without modification.

What couldn't you do? I'm actually curious. I have no interest in iOS for a tablet, mainly because if I'm going to mostly watch videos or browse the web I'll take an AMOLED screen over an IPS any day. But I had/have a hard time finding what exactly Android does so much better than iOS.
 

rat

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What couldn't you do? I'm actually curious. I have no interest in iOS for a tablet, mainly because if I'm going to mostly watch videos or browse the web I'll take an AMOLED screen over an IPS any day. But I had/have a hard time finding what exactly Android does so much better than iOS.

Install a different launcher/home screen, widgets and having a full page app folder, different browser (at the time you could still only use Apple's own for a while), share data between apps (everything you download in an app could only be used by that app), sideload apps (no, not piracy... like Humble Bundle or FDroid)... some pretty big dealbreakers in there.
 

B00nie

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I had an iPad Air when it was new. I found it lacking. I couldn't do half of what I was able to do on any other device, Windows Phone included, unless I jailbroke the iPad. Half of what I had to jailbreak for I could do on Android without modification.

If you mean install malware on it, true. I wouldn't want to install malware to my mobile devices though.
 

B00nie

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Install a different launcher/home screen, widgets and having a full page app folder, different browser (at the time you could still only use Apple's own for a while), share data between apps (everything you download in an app could only be used by that app), sideload apps (no, not piracy... like Humble Bundle or FDroid)... some pretty big dealbreakers in there.
None of those I ever missed in a mobile device. Sideloading is an EXTREMELY bad idea. Your mobile device is an open port to paid services and it should remain as locked down as possible. You remove the number one reason to get Apple by jailbreaking and sideloading. You might as well get a malware infested Android then.
 

rat

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None of those I ever missed in a mobile device. Sideloading is an EXTREMELY bad idea. Your mobile device is an open port to paid services and it should remain as locked down as possible. You remove the number one reason to get Apple by jailbreaking and sideloading. You might as well get a malware infested Android then.

No amount of FUD will make you right.

Humble Bundle is one of the biggest third party stores for Android games. FDroid is a open source market.
 

spinach_chin

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When my keys end up in the same pocket as my phone.

Or coins.

Or bits of plastic from things like mint containers.

Deliberate scratching with a pick or accidental scratching due to use are effectively the same thing in the end: a scratch on the screen.
Keys are unlikely to scratch your screen.

Coins are unlikely to scratch your screen.

Plastic is unlikely to scratch your screen.

All of those common items are softer than GG.
 

spinach_chin

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You do realize this only happened to people that put the phone into very tight pockets, right? Not once have I seen this happen to a person with a case that didnt put it in their tight ass jeans. And guess what? Apple took a proactive approach and exchanged every bent phone. Good luck getting warranty service on your Android phone, youll be waiting for it for weeks until its fixed.
If anecdotal evidence is sufficient as proof, I seem to remember quite clearly several instances from bloggers and tech journos that had bent their iPhones despite them being exceptionally careful with the them.

FWIW, I tend to think the whole Bendgate episode was more serious than Apple fanboys would admit, but definitely not as bad or as widespread a problem as it was made out to be in general.
 
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Keys are unlikely to scratch your screen.

Coins are unlikely to scratch your screen.

Plastic is unlikely to scratch your screen.

All of those common items are softer than GG.

Obviously not this new GG5.
 

nightanole

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Keys are unlikely to scratch your screen.

Coins are unlikely to scratch your screen.

Plastic is unlikely to scratch your screen.

All of those common items are softer than GG.


Metallic transfer. It seems (odds are more testing is needed) that GG5 is not as low friction as GG4. So instead of the softer items gliding on the glass, it drags and deposits onto the glass. Everything is a crayon to GG5.
 

Spewn

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Since when are scratches to the screen ever done in a controlled manner? This seems to have a plastic screen just like the s7 active, wont break easily but it'll scratch easily.

The point is that *testing* needs to be done in a controlled manner or it doesn't tell you anything useful.
 
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The point is that *testing* needs to be done in a controlled manner or it doesn't tell you anything useful.

He was using a hardness tool, it either scratches or it doesn't, that's how hardness "works".
 
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