Competitive Gaming Recognized in U.S. as a Pro Sport

CommanderFrank

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Riot Games has been working on getting recognized status for professional gamers for some time and now the US State Department has recognized the League of Legends Championship Series as a professional sport. This new classification will make it simple and easy for foreign gamers to obtain Visas for US tournaments.

The new recognition of LCS applies to the eight professional teams operating in the United States, and is not applicable to other eSports leagues, though they can now apply to be added to the list of recognized leagues.
 

kbrickley

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with top teams attracting seven-figure sponsorship deals and annual salaries for the best players averaging around the $100,000 mark.

Wow, that is impressive ... are the gamer's careers as short as in the Korean Starcraft leagues or do they play longer ... is this a temporary visa where they leave once they leave the league or does this grant permanent Green Card status ... hopefully this will also spark more interest in American players
 

Kalabalana

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One of many inevitable first steps for e-gaming. As a gamer, I knew it was coming, what surprises me most, are peripherals like the Oculus Rift, and omni-direction movement devices (a really good one hasn't been made imo), and how they are coming faster than I had imagined. A new level of immersion in media is at the door, and we are about to open it!
 

Dekoth-E-

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One of many inevitable first steps for e-gaming. As a gamer, I knew it was coming, what surprises me most, are peripherals like the Oculus Rift, and omni-direction movement devices (a really good one hasn't been made imo), and how they are coming faster than I had imagined. A new level of immersion in media is at the door, and we are about to open it!

Hate to break it too you, but VR was a gimmick 20+ years ago and that hasn't changed. Other than "Casual OOh Shiny!" gamers, that shit has zero appeal.
 

Marlfox

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A sport where the professionals have the bodies of 60 year old chain smokers and often display the worst level of sportsmanship ever seen in any competition.
 

Dekoth-E-

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A sport where the professionals have the bodies of 60 year old chain smokers and often display the worst level of sportsmanship ever seen in any competition.

This statement is factually untrue.

Granted League/Dota players aren't nearly as fit in general is Pro SC players, but that is slowly changing as players and coaches realize that you have to be physically fit to be mentally fit.
 

dgz

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Hate to break it too you, but VR was a gimmick 20+ years ago and that hasn't changed. Other than "Casual OOh Shiny!" gamers, that shit has zero appeal.

Except Oculus Rift is for real. Can't wait for the consumer version.
 

Dekoth-E-

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Except Oculus Rift is for real. Can't wait for the consumer version.

So was the Virtual Boy..doesn't make it less of a gimmick. Much like 3d, most are going to pass on vomit inducing crap they have to wear on their head.
 

Kalabalana

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Hate to break it too you, but VR was a gimmick 20+ years ago and that hasn't changed. Other than "Casual OOh Shiny!" gamers, that shit has zero appeal.

The issue with previous attempts at VR goggles was a bottleneck regarding 1:1 motion between rl and vr. The inventor of the Rift made the product because he achieved this mechanic, where no one has done so before.

This is the realization those of us excited about the Rift seem to have, and it is compounded by the stumbling responses, and feelings of disorientation, vertigo, etc, already popping up on the net (in video form). You should do more research on topics before sharing your thoughts so confidently, you come off pretentious, and uninformed.
 

Merc1138

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The issue with previous attempts at VR goggles was a bottleneck regarding 1:1 motion between rl and vr. The inventor of the Rift made the product because he achieved this mechanic, where no one has done so before.

This is the realization those of us excited about the Rift seem to have, and it is compounded by the stumbling responses, and feelings of disorientation, vertigo, etc, already popping up on the net (in video form). You should do more research on topics before sharing your thoughts so confidently, you come off pretentious, and uninformed.

And what you don't seem to understand, is that most gamers don't want to move around while gaming. From the imprecise controls with things like wiimotes and kinect, to breaking a sweat and needing to clear furniture in your living room. It doesn't have any mass appeal other than "ooh, shiny". Even if you just take the rift by itself, no one is going to want to sit at their desk trying to snap their own neck just to turn fast enough playing an FPS game. It could be good for racing games and flight sims, with the right setup to go along with it, but that's a fairly large investment in a decent flight control or driving setup and a fairly limited market among those people actually wanting something like this. Yes, it's neat, it's also nice that games do not appear to have to be specifically written for it, but after the initial "ooh, shiny" the praise will die down as it becomes relegated to a dust collecting object in the corner.

Pretty much the only place I can see the rift having any long term appeal other than some very niche uses, would be arcade games at a place like dave & busters or your local equivalent.

You should do some looking around at society before sharing your thoughts so confidently, you come off pretentious and uninformed.
 

Dekoth-E-

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The issue with previous attempts at VR goggles was a bottleneck regarding 1:1 motion between rl and vr. The inventor of the Rift made the product because he achieved this mechanic, where no one has done so before.

This is the realization those of us excited about the Rift seem to have, and it is compounded by the stumbling responses, and feelings of disorientation, vertigo, etc, already popping up on the net (in video form). You should do more research on topics before sharing your thoughts so confidently, you come off pretentious, and uninformed.

See Below. Sorry I have done plenty of research on it and know just Exactly what it is and what it is not.

And what you don't seem to understand, is that most gamers don't want to move around while gaming. From the imprecise controls with things like wiimotes and kinect, to breaking a sweat and needing to clear furniture in your living room. It doesn't have any mass appeal other than "ooh, shiny". Even if you just take the rift by itself, no one is going to want to sit at their desk trying to snap their own neck just to turn fast enough playing an FPS game. It could be good for racing games and flight sims, with the right setup to go along with it, but that's a fairly large investment in a decent flight control or driving setup and a fairly limited market among those people actually wanting something like this. Yes, it's neat, it's also nice that games do not appear to have to be specifically written for it, but after the initial "ooh, shiny" the praise will die down as it becomes relegated to a dust collecting object in the corner.

Pretty much the only place I can see the rift having any long term appeal other than some very niche uses, would be arcade games at a place like dave & busters or your local equivalent.

You should do some looking around at society before sharing your thoughts so confidently, you come off pretentious and uninformed.

This among the laundry list of reasons.

Don't get me wrong, it is neat technology. It however is never going to be mainstream much less have any place At all in competitive gaming. As such it shouldn't of even been brought up in this thread.
 

Kalabalana

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And what you don't seem to understand, is that most gamers don't want to move around while gaming. From the imprecise controls with things like wiimotes and kinect, to breaking a sweat and needing to clear furniture in your living room. It doesn't have any mass appeal other than "ooh, shiny". Even if you just take the rift by itself, no one is going to want to sit at their desk trying to snap their own neck just to turn fast enough playing an FPS game. It could be good for racing games and flight sims, with the right setup to go along with it, but that's a fairly large investment in a decent flight control or driving setup and a fairly limited market among those people actually wanting something like this. Yes, it's neat, it's also nice that games do not appear to have to be specifically written for it, but after the initial "ooh, shiny" the praise will die down as it becomes relegated to a dust collecting object in the corner.

Pretty much the only place I can see the rift having any long term appeal other than some very niche uses, would be arcade games at a place like dave & busters or your local equivalent.

You should do some looking around at society before sharing your thoughts so confidently, you come off pretentious and uninformed.

The issue you brought up was that the rift was more or less the same thing as previous VR attempts, there was a huge logical error in that reasoning, and I pointed it out.
As far as everything else you've said in the above quoted text, is all besides the original point, and are topics I hadn't broached/challenged. So in other words, nonsense you created merely to respond to someone who upset you. Predictable.

The Oculus Rift brings a new level of immersion that has not been experienced yet. This excites those who understand the ramifications of such progression (everything between now and a holodeck/matrix-world entertainment future for example).

I also expected your "I know you are, but what am I" jab at the end there, my take on your character was correct.

I won't be acknowledging you in this thread again.
 

Merc1138

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The issue you brought up was that the rift was more or less the same thing as previous VR attempts, there was a huge logical error in that reasoning, and I pointed it out.
As far as everything else you've said in the above quoted text, is all besides the original point, and are topics I hadn't broached/challenged. So in other words, nonsense you created merely to respond to someone who upset you. Predictable.

The Oculus Rift brings a new level of immersion that has not been experienced yet. This excites those who understand the ramifications of such progression (everything between now and a holodeck/matrix-world entertainment future for example).

I also expected your "I know you are, but what am I" jab at the end there, my take on your character was correct.

I won't be acknowledging you in this thread again.

Doesn't want to actually discuss anything and then runs away, lol.

The fact that you can't even counter any of the points that I made pretty much shows how little you understand. It doesn't matter if it's 1:1, high resolution, compatible with tons of games. Most people will not want or be able to turn their head as quick as they can move a mouse for any extended period of time. The appeal of this device is extremely limited, nevermind the pricetag(it's hard selling a $100 gaming accessory, how well do you think a $300 accessory is going to do?), and even if it only weighs a few ounces people will get sick of having a pair of isolation goggles strapped to their head after a fairly short period of time compared to how long people can sit in front of a monitor or TV and play games. The fact that you even brought up some holodeck/matrix world hyperbole just goes to further show that you have no idea WTF you're talking about.

Stop dreaming and wake the hell up.

This thing barely has a place in casual gaming, and no place in competitive gaming. It'll be great for some simulators, that's about it for games other than 20 minute sessions of "ooh, shiny".
 

collegeboy69us

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Hate to break it too you, but VR was a gimmick 20+ years ago and that hasn't changed. Other than "Casual OOh Shiny!" gamers, that shit has zero appeal.

Same with "3D" tv/movies -- it was cheap/stupid back then when you wore red and blue glasses.

As nerdy and tech-loving as I am -- I still don't give a flip about paying extra money to see 3D this or that.
 

ninjaturtle

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A sport where the professionals have the bodies of 60 year old chain smokers and often display the worst level of sportsmanship ever seen in any competition.

Teabagging including?
Wonder if there are fines for doing that....
 

collegeboy69us

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I will also add a +1 to the "nobody is going to want to snap their neck and have to get wildly physical to enjoy certain types of games" comment.

If I have a rough day at work (doing physical things mind you) am I really going to want to slap on some headset and go stomping/running/jumping around in the latest virtual reality craze? No, I'm tired and want to sit on my ass and play video games in the traditional manner. The latest fad of getting gamers physically involved isn't mainstream because the truth is we want to sit on our asses and relax.

The notion of holodecks are great and all that, but that was in a world where there was no poverty, little if no disease or physical ailments, and where everyone could lead a life of leisure.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

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Anyone can say they're a professional at something, but not everyone can do it with something as dumb as a video game. Coolness for pulling one over on society for the people that will get fans, endorsements, and money riding on the backs of others who don't know better.
 

Jagger100

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Is this about allowing foreign teams to tourney here. Or is it about hiring players out of other countries for teams based here? The reason I ask is that this is not a critical needs profession for the economy. By that I mean if they don't fill it with imported labor, it will be filled with domestic labor and life will carry on. Except that some guy who isn't fighting for a job elsewhere in this economy.

Even then its more about hiring people from outside the country so they don't have to pay to attract better talent to their teams. Labor dumping like most fast track visa programs.
 
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Why not. They consider golf and bass fishing sports.

...And Nascar.

Seriously. "Sport" long ago lost any meaning having to do with fitness.

Don't get me wrong, I've been a gamer since I could first pick up a D-pad, and while some people may call me a fitness freak, I've always found all of the popular mainstream sports that most Neanderthal types seem to love so much incredibly boring (I'm more of a mountain biking, rock climbing, kayaking, swimming, freerunning, martial arts guys myself...)

That said... Labeling gaming a sport is stupid. Competitive league gaming... sure. But a sport, by it's very definition, means being fit and active to compete. Sitting on your ass and twiddling your thumbs doesn't cut it... and if any gamer wants to call themselves an athlete then they better be ready to meet me on the mountain so I can watch them die.
 

Dekoth-E-

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Anyone can say they're a professional at something, but not everyone can do it with something as dumb as a video game. Coolness for pulling one over on society for the people that will get fans, endorsements, and money riding on the backs of others who don't know better.

...And Nascar.

Seriously. "Sport" long ago lost any meaning having to do with fitness.

Don't get me wrong, I've been a gamer since I could first pick up a D-pad, and while some people may call me a fitness freak, I've always found all of the popular mainstream sports that most Neanderthal types seem to love so much incredibly boring (I'm more of a mountain biking, rock climbing, kayaking, swimming, freerunning, martial arts guys myself...)

That said... Labeling gaming a sport is stupid. Competitive league gaming... sure. But a sport, by it's very definition, means being fit and active to compete. Sitting on your ass and twiddling your thumbs doesn't cut it... and if any gamer wants to call themselves an athlete then they better be ready to meet me on the mountain so I can watch them die.

Statements by people who obviously aren't gamer's and or are terrible at them. Just like any other sport, the skill gap between those that play at a competition level and those who don't is huge. Don't believe me? Feel free to prove me wrong by picking up one and showing just how easy it is.

There are plenty of other sports that don't require being able to climb a mountain. Your analogy is terrible and makes you look like you have no clue what you are talking about. Some sports are about physical fitness and some are about Mental fitness and some fall somewhere in between.
 

kbrickley

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Is this about allowing foreign teams to tourney here. Or is it about hiring players out of other countries for teams based here? The reason I ask is that this is not a critical needs profession for the economy. By that I mean if they don't fill it with imported labor, it will be filled with domestic labor and life will carry on. Except that some guy who isn't fighting for a job elsewhere in this economy.

Even then its more about hiring people from outside the country so they don't have to pay to attract better talent to their teams. Labor dumping like most fast track visa programs.

The article seemed to indicate this is about importing players from other countries (this is a form of work Visa) ... that's why I was wondering if this is a permanent Green Card or only temporary while they are part of the league ... it doesn't appear to be related to lower cost workers so I don't think it is like L1 vs H1 visas.
 

dgz

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Most people will not want or be able to turn their head as quick as they can move a mouse for any extended period of time. The appeal of this device is extremely limited...

Stop dreaming and wake the hell up.

This thing barely has a place in casual gaming, and no place in competitive gaming. It'll be great for some simulators, that's about it for games other than 20 minute sessions of "ooh, shiny".

I think you lack imagination and creativity. You're NOT required to use the sensors. I, for one, am purely interested in Oculus Rift as a dumb head mounted screen, nothing more.

I'd love to play Quake 3 competitively with it. Been doing that since 1999 anyway, why not with a VR. I think head mounted displays have huge potential. This is just the beginning and nothing like the flickering "3D" at the movies and the crap nvidia promotes.

Is this about allowing foreign teams to tourney here. Or is it about hiring players out of other countries for teams based here? The reason I ask is that this is not a critical needs profession for the economy. By that I mean if they don't fill it with imported labor, it will be filled with domestic labor and life will carry on. Except that some guy who isn't fighting for a job elsewhere in this economy.

Even then its more about hiring people from outside the country so they don't have to pay to attract better talent to their teams. Labor dumping like most fast track visa programs.

Paranoid much? US authorities tend to make it hard for foreign competitors in any sport. It is an actual problem when some of your top talent is not allowed in the country for some stupid reason. This hurts not only teams but events, too. They may plant a bomb... or take someone's job :rolleyes:
 

Kongar

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Wow am I the only one surprised t the $100,000 salary for the top players? All that dedication to be the best of an arguably huge competitive field... You old easily put that effort into a good degree and. Masters and be guaranteed 100k...
 

jbltecnicspro

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Wow am I the only one surprised t the $100,000 salary for the top players? All that dedication to be the best of an arguably huge competitive field... You old easily put that effort into a good degree and. Masters and be guaranteed 100k...

No you can't.
 

Dekoth-E-

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Wow am I the only one surprised t the $100,000 salary for the top players? All that dedication to be the best of an arguably huge competitive field... You old easily put that effort into a good degree and. Masters and be guaranteed 100k...

That is 100k Base salary for top players and does not include tournament winnings. There are players winning well into 6 figures in tournaments alone.

A degree doesn't guarantee a good salary, there are LOADS of people out there with good degrees earning nothing. Couple that with the mountain of debt many degrees can incur and it makes the value of many degrees very subjective when people are needing 10+ years to pay off student loans.
 
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Statements by people who obviously aren't gamer's and or are terrible at them. Just like any other sport, the skill gap between those that play at a competition level and those who don't is huge. Don't believe me? Feel free to prove me wrong by picking up one and showing just how easy it is.

There are plenty of other sports that don't require being able to climb a mountain. Your analogy is terrible and makes you look like you have no clue what you are talking about. Some sports are about physical fitness and some are about Mental fitness and some fall somewhere in between.

Actually, as I said, I am a gamer. A very good one in fact... So good that I almost always get accused of being a cheater.

Also gaming has little to do with mental fitness... Unless we're talking hardcore strategy games or puzzle solving or something along those lines, most gaming is nothing more than simple reflexes... hence why many gamers are also fucking morons with IQs bordering on mentally retarded.

And personally, as someone with an IQ hovering a bit over 180, I find the notion of gaming being a challenge of mental fitness just as laughable as it being some kind of contest of physical prowess...

Sorry... but gaming being considered a sport is just kinda pathetic and frankly shows how far the bar has been lowered for personal achievements in modern society.
 

Dekoth-E-

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Actually, as I said, I am a gamer. A very good one in fact... So good that I almost always get accused of being a cheater.

Also gaming has little to do with mental fitness... Unless we're talking hardcore strategy games or puzzle solving or something along those lines, most gaming is nothing more than simple reflexes... hence why many gamers are also fucking morons with IQs bordering on mentally retarded.

And personally, as someone with an IQ hovering a bit over 180, I find the notion of gaming being a challenge of mental fitness just as laughable as it being some kind of contest of physical prowess...

Sorry... but gaming being considered a sport is just kinda pathetic and frankly shows how far the bar has been lowered for personal achievements in modern society.

Right..careful there, your ego is showing. You just showed how very little you know about esports, I don't need to bother debating with a self proclaimed genius. :rolleyes:
 

pankkake

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Good thing terrorists don't play games.
QI8Jw.jpg
 
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Right..careful there, your ego is showing. You just showed how very little you know about esports, I don't need to bother debating with a self proclaimed genius. :rolleyes:

Heh... Yeah. Guess I get cocky after several beers at a Sunday afternoon barbecue... But still, gaming as a sport is silly no matter how hard you try to defend it...

I mean seriously, I thought reality TV was the lowest form of "entertainment" our brain-dead modern society could come up with... but I can't think of anything much more vapid than watching someone else play a fucking video game...

Oh, and FYI, since my ego is already showing... The commonly accepted definition of "genius" is someone who has a certified IQ in the 130-140 range... so I find that a bit insulting ;)
 

BryanSTG

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The headline should read: Competitive Gaming Recognized in U.S. as a Pro Sport by US State Department and nobody else. All Sports are games but not all games are sports.
 

Tudz

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Statements by people who obviously aren't gamer's and or are terrible at them. Just like any other sport, the skill gap between those that play at a competition level and those who don't is huge. Don't believe me? Feel free to prove me wrong by picking up one and showing just how easy it is.

There are plenty of other sports that don't require being able to climb a mountain. Your analogy is terrible and makes you look like you have no clue what you are talking about. Some sports are about physical fitness and some are about Mental fitness and some fall somewhere in between.

You either have to draw a line of what you define as a sport or you simply end up arbitrarily deciding case by case what you define as a sport.

The US State Department is doing the latter, because they are deciding who gets to enter the country or not under certain visas, they don't care about a dictionary definition of sports.

People take this shit so personally, like if it's not defined as a sport it's some sort of personal insult. I made a post about this in a thread we had recently and I think I'll just requote what I said back then...

Yes, it can have multiple meanings, I'm not saying it can't take on different connotations, but IMO to include video games in "sport" requires either using a broad definition of the word that encapsulates everything that is recreation or changing the definition to be quite specific and some of the things that are currently considered "sport" get knocked out of that definition.

There might be more options that I'm missing here, but these are the options as I see it...

1. Stick with the primary definition of athletic endeavour: Video games not sport.


2. Stick with the broad definition of recreational activity: Video games are sport, along with jerking off and drinking beer. This is not an uncommon definition of the word "sport".

IMO those two are the best definitions that fit current understandings of the word.

3. Keep first definition, but remove references to "physical skill" and replace with "physical or mental skill": Video games are sport, many other things also become sport as well, like playing a board game or playing twister at a party.

4. Just decide that you're going to categorise individual activities as being sports or not based on their merits. Video games can be sports depending on who you ask. I don't like this definition because it just comes down to arbitrary drawing of lines "oh this is sport, that isn't sport".

The US State Department is obviously doing number #4, because that's what's in their best interest.
 

Dekoth-E-

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Heh... Yeah. Guess I get cocky after several beers at a Sunday afternoon barbecue... But still, gaming as a sport is silly no matter how hard you try to defend it...

I mean seriously, I thought reality TV was the lowest form of "entertainment" our brain-dead modern society could come up with... but I can't think of anything much more vapid than watching someone else play a fucking video game...

Oh, and FYI, since my ego is already showing... The commonly accepted definition of "genius" is someone who has a certified IQ in the 130-140 range... so I find that a bit insulting ;)

I can't think of anything much more vapid than watching someone else run around a field patting each other on the ass.

It goes both ways, it is all about what interests you as a person. I don't find most sports interesting in the least.
 

kbrickley

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Paranoid much? US authorities tend to make it hard for foreign competitors in any sport. It is an actual problem when some of your top talent is not allowed in the country for some stupid reason. This hurts not only teams but events, too. They may plant a bomb... or take someone's job :rolleyes:

The article was about a player they wanted to come play for a US team so it is a work visa, but since we are only talking about a few dozen highly specialized individuals I don't see it matters much ... it is good they are doing this and hopefully will open the gate to increased levels of H1 and L1 visas for regular workers also
 

dgingeri

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And yet, cheerleading can't even be recognized as a sport enough to protect the kids doing that.
 
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