China's factory recovery slows in January as COVID-19 returns

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HAL_404

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"BEIJING (Reuters) - China’s factory activity grew at the slowest pace in five months in January, hit by a wave of domestic coronavirus infections"

better hang on to whatever GPU you're currently using .... might become worth it's weight in gold before long :barefoot:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-in-january-as-covid-19-returns-idUSKBN2A001A

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jerry8169

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Nothing philosophical about it. China is the enemy. Believe it.
I think he meant it isn't feasible due to the fact that manufacturing has moved to that part of the world due to the much more lax environmental regulations, lower wages, and much lower price to manufacture things in that part of the world. If we would pay the significantly higher prices to have them made here, then eventually we could have the fabs built here to make all those parts in country. Unfortunately, most people only want things cheaper and cheaper, and they don't let other considerations enter into their thinking.
 

Krenum

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I think he meant it isn't feasible due to the fact that manufacturing has moved to that part of the world due to the much more lax environmental regulations, lower wages, and much lower price to manufacture things in that part of the world. If we would pay the significantly higher prices to have them made here, then eventually we could have the fabs built here to make all those parts in country. Unfortunately, most people only want things cheaper and cheaper, and they don't let other considerations enter into their thinking.
Agreed.

Seems pretty simple doesn't it? Pay a livable wage, make a quality product here in the USA. Makes you wonder, are the people running the machine really that dumb or is it all part of the plan?

China was / is very smart. Instead of being hostile toward an enemy, they make their enemies dependant upon them.
 

Jinto

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I work in Hong Kong at the moment on an expat assignment. The irony is that there is a huge amount of public noise about moving production away from China. But in reality the amount of foreign investment going in is skyrocketing. Companies are moving low value adds from China while investing in more advanced manufacturing. Would you say that is really moving away?

Also, there is also a less visible but strong trend of companies moving to decouple, or at least create a parallel R&D away from the U.S. It doesn't really matter if we consider China to be the enemy. You need the rest of the world to be united about it and that is extremely difficult, even more so after 4 years of Trump. We need to sort out our own house first. The rest of the world hates an unpredictable US. Think longer term and invest.
 

Dan_D

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I think he meant it isn't feasible due to the fact that manufacturing has moved to that part of the world due to the much more lax environmental regulations, lower wages, and much lower price to manufacture things in that part of the world. If we would pay the significantly higher prices to have them made here, then eventually we could have the fabs built here to make all those parts in country. Unfortunately, most people only want things cheaper and cheaper, and they don't let other considerations enter into their thinking.

Precisely.
 

Lakados

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It will take 20 years minimum to move most of that manufacturing out of China, but there are few places that could take it. Nowhere in the US is there a place where you could go from raw materials to finished shippable products all within 100 square kilometers of each other. Certainly not with access to the vast amounts of water that most manufacturing requires, and all while staying within North America's environmental restrictions. And I am not at all advocating for reducing environmental regulations especially those that deal with water pollution. Even China doesn't really want a lot of what it currently makes and that is the stuff that is moving to India or the Philippines, China is now in a position where they can cherry-pick what sort of manufacturing they do and don't want to be doing because they are starting to see the very real environmental impacts from being both the world's manufacturing hub and dumping ground.
 

Aurelius

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To expand on what Lakados said:

People like to pretend it's just about wages and environmental standards, but the truth is that a lot of it is about operational concerns. Many rare earths and other important materials are in China and neighboring countries; you could bring all the factories and component makers to the US overnight and you'd still have to export the raw materials. It's just easier for a lot of clients to leave the manufacturing in the region since they wouldn't really be less dependent.

There's also the question of worker flexibility. In places like China and Vietnam, it's relatively easy to marshal thousands of properly qualified workers in a couple of weeks if there's a surge in demand. In the US, you'd be thankful if you could get thousands of people in the space of a year. They'd be spread too far across the country, and many of the possible candidates would be overqualified; think college grads instead of tradespeople.

This doesn't mean companies shouldn't diversify production away from China, but true independence would require material discoveries and a fundamental rethink of the American economy that shifted back toward manufacturing and trade. And I wouldn't count on either happening any time soon.
 

wyqtor

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Maybe allowing international flights out of Wuhan back in January last year, even while banning domestic ones, was not such a great idea after all.
 

Lepardi

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I think he meant it isn't feasible due to the fact that manufacturing has moved to that part of the world due to the much more lax environmental regulations, lower wages, and much lower price to manufacture things in that part of the world. If we would pay the significantly higher prices to have them made here, then eventually we could have the fabs built here to make all those parts in country. Unfortunately, most people only want things cheaper and cheaper, and they don't let other considerations enter into their thinking.
We are currently paying 2x MSRP's, while they are still manufactured in that part of the world. So let's have them domestically, pay less and get them faster.
 

Aurelius

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We are currently paying 2x MSRP's, while they are still manufactured in that part of the world. So let's have them domestically, pay less and get them faster.
That's not how it works. It would not be cheaper; it would not be faster.
 

coynatha

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I think he meant it isn't feasible due to the fact that manufacturing has moved to that part of the world due to the much more lax environmental regulations, lower wages, and much lower price to manufacture things in that part of the world. If we would pay the significantly higher prices to have them made here, then eventually we could have the fabs built here to make all those parts in country. Unfortunately, most people only want things cheaper and cheaper, and they don't let other considerations enter into their thinking.
*INSERTS MAURY MEME*

eBay scalper prices say THAT IS A LIE. We're obviously more than willing to pay increased prices for products.

TSMC in Arizona can't happen fast enough. Hopefully Samsung and others follow. China can be communist all they want, but Capitalism wins in the end.
 

Master_shake_

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Jinto

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What wave?

Judging by googles China covid cases it's literally a nothingburger.

They literally lock down part of a city for a couple dozen cases. So it may not be a 'huge' number of cases but the economic impact is there.
 

Krenum

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China's numbers aren't even truthful. Not by a long shot. Nothing about this whole pandemic has been truthful. You know they found SARS Cov-2 in Barcelona Spain's sewage samples (apparently that's a job) in March of 2019? What does that tell us? Covid has been here ALOT longer than we realize.

Not to mention the samples they took after those miners got sick and died in 2012 and sent them off to the Wuhan lab.
 

Wat

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Anyone old enough to remember the 70 and 80s will recall that everyone in the USA were saying the same things about Japan as people are saying about China today. Its a cycle.
What will be the next country that the world's manufacturers will turn to for low cost? I have no idea, but I would not be suprised if it was india.
 

MrGuvernment

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Agreed.

Seems pretty simple doesn't it? Pay a livable wage, make a quality product here in the USA. Makes you wonder, are the people running the machine really that dumb or is it all part of the plan?

China was / is very smart. Instead of being hostile toward an enemy, they make their enemies dependant upon them.
Reality is, most people arent willing to pay $2000 for a cell phone, let alone the $1000 these days. How many people would rather shop at walmart for cheap groceries vs paying more for local grown at a farmers market, the majority. Many people can not afford to support local as is...
 
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What wave?

Judging by googles China covid cases it's literally a nothingburger.

I'm not a fan of the propaganda and politician-worship fuelled brand of nationalism that gets so many people in this thread off, but you absolutely cannot trust the numbers the People's Party releases.

I have friends and business acquaintances in China, it's not good there.
 

os2wiz

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Good!

Less dependent the world is on China, the better!
Nationalism of all kinds is destructive and leads to war and racism. It also is ideological justification for higher gpu prices via tariffs that have no justification.
 

LukeTbk

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Agreed.

China was / is very smart. Instead of being hostile toward an enemy, they make their enemies dependant upon them.
Enemy/enemies ?
Seems pretty simple doesn't it? Pay a livable wage, make a quality product here in the USA. Makes you wonder, are the people running the machine really that dumb or is it all part of the plan?
I doubt it is simple. Considering that they build virtually zero worker factory in China, I suspect it is much more than worker wage that make it attractive, but on that part I am not sure how many american would be willing/interested and able for some of the work done (https://www.inc.com/glenn-leibowitz...-iphones-in-china-its-not-what-you-think.html):

636207869786592692--FoxConn-08.jpg

Argentina in the late 2000s/early 2010s tried it, to make their smartphone locally, it was much more than wage that was a huge challenge:

Old phone model (by the time they created the infrastructure from the ground up, what is was able to make was outdated) and costed more than twice what the phone costed in the USA,creating a huge black market for the much cheaper and better Asian made phone.

Manufacturing from the availability of the parts that goes into the process, the shipping ports infrastructure and so on must be complex to move around.

After decade of constructing known how, there is supply chain process that would not be simple to do has good elsewhere, if possible it would be a big challenge.
 

LukeTbk

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what concentration camps? /s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinji...cation camps,Party (CCP) provincial committee.

Xinjiang_Re-education_Camp_Lop_County.jpg

https://www.icij.org/investigations...-for-mass-internment-and-arrest-by-algorithm/
A new leak of highly classified Chinese government documents reveals the operations manual for running the mass detention camps in Xinjiang and exposed the mechanics of the region’s system of mass surveillance.

The China Cables, obtained by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, include a classified list of guidelines, personally approved by the region’s top security chief, that effectively serves as a manual for operating the camps now holding hundreds of thousands of Muslim Uighurs and other minorities. The leak also features previously undisclosed intelligence briefings that reveal, in the government’s own words, how Chinese police are guided by a massive data collection and analysis system that uses artificial intelligence to select entire categories of Xinjiang residents for detention.

https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php... of the region’s system of mass surveillance.
 

sc5mu93

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps#:~:text=The Xinjiang re-education camps,Party (CCP) provincial committee.

View attachment 325046

https://www.icij.org/investigations...-for-mass-internment-and-arrest-by-algorithm/
A new leak of highly classified Chinese government documents reveals the operations manual for running the mass detention camps in Xinjiang and exposed the mechanics of the region’s system of mass surveillance.

The China Cables, obtained by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, include a classified list of guidelines, personally approved by the region’s top security chief, that effectively serves as a manual for operating the camps now holding hundreds of thousands of Muslim Uighurs and other minorities. The leak also features previously undisclosed intelligence briefings that reveal, in the government’s own words, how Chinese police are guided by a massive data collection and analysis system that uses artificial intelligence to select entire categories of Xinjiang residents for detention.

https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https://www.icij.org/investigations/china-cables/exposed-chinas-operating-manuals-for-mass-internment-and-arrest-by-algorithm/&title=Exposed: China’s Operating Manuals for Mass Internment and Arrest by Algorithm&description=A new leak of highly classified Chinese government documents reveals the operations manual for running the mass detention camps in Xinjiang and exposed the mechanics of the region’s system of mass surveillance.
no. not concentration camps.

just exit your homes, go to a prison-like area...

OOfx.gif
 

os2wiz

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It sure does. Ask the Chinese about their concentration camps for the Muslims.
Did I ever say that the Chinese are NOT nationalist??? Did I ever say their treatment of Uighurs is correct. WHO sanctioned the US for the last 300 years of racism and genocide against Black people???? Get off your high horse! The US has the worst human rights record here and around the world I will give you a partial listing and I mean just partial.
1. Genocide on the slave ships to the US Millions perished overcrowded and starved in the hulls of those ships.
2. Over 10,000 lynchings before and after Reconstruction in the US in both South and North.
3. Tuskegee syphilis Experiment. Went on from 1930's up into the 1970's. Where Black men seeking treatment at clinics run by the US Public Health Service were given placebos instead of penicillin so these Nazi doctors could study each stage of the disease. They obviously didn't care about the disease being spread among Black people.
4. Guatemala in Central America, US doctors did the same to Amer-Indians in rural Guatemala as they did in Tuskegee. This happened into the late 1980's.
5. In Africa US pharmaceutical firms uses African children as guinea pigs for their vaccines development without informed consent.
6. Through the early 1980's the steel industry in the U.S. systematically reserved all jobs in the coking plants for Black workers. These jobs were the lowest paying and most dangerous. Coking plants in steel mills are highly polluted and workers rarely lived through their 60th birthday before dying of job-induced cancer and/or heart disease . So the steel companies not only made super profit off these workers off these workers labor but killed them in the process.
7. US genocide against Vietnam. The war in Vietnam killed 3 million Vietnamese half of which were civilians who villages were napalmed. The whole war was bogus. The US sent torpedo boats within 3 miles of Vietnams coast well within their 5 mile limit. Whe the Vietnamese fired warning shots back at them LBJ started bombing northern Vietnam and invaded Vietnam with over 550,000 soldiers.
8. GW Bush's invasion in 2003 of Iraq. It was preceded by Bill Clinton's embargo on food and medicine in the 1990's which killed 500,00 Iraqi children from famine and disease and another 500,000 adult Iraqis. Based on the lie of weapons of mass destruction the invasion destroyed Iraq's power grid , much of their water supply, and their healthcare infra structure. Another 500,00 Iraqis died from the conflict and its side effects.
9. US invasion of Syria and Libya by Obama and Killary Clinton. Each has cause hundreds of thousands of deaths. The US accused Syria of using poison gas on the Syrian "Free Army which is a collection of bandits and terrorist groups including elements of the AL Nusra Front, an Al Queda affiliate. The military assistance was funneled through the CIA.
Full documentation provided on request.
As I said this just a small portion of atrocities committed by US imperialism here and abroad. Atrocities whose perpetrators were never brought to justice. I would like to see Clinton. Bush, and Obama as well as Killary Clinton, and Kissinger, Pompeo and Trump be hung in a public square and then machine gunned, just as Mussolini was by communist Italian partisans.
 
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Not surprising. They basically stopped reporting COVID cases the moment COVID started hitting the US last year. Oh but its there.
 
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