CD PROJEKT RED Donating Humanitarian Aid To Ukraine

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There is no winning scenario in this for Putin. None. Successfully taking Ukraine would actually be the worst outcome for Russia. The sanctions would only intensify and last indefinitely while the Russian occupiers are bled without end by insurgents in Ukraine.

And your average Russian today is not your 1990s Russian who was accustomed to living a crap life. They've very much become used to Western capitalist creature comforts. They enjoy Western movies, music, and technology. They'll not easily go along with being thrown back to a Soviet-era lifestyle.
 

Meeho

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It's 2024. China and Mexico, two sovereign internationally recognized autonomus states, form a strategic partnership. China ships its troops and installs missiles on the Mexico-US border. What does the USA do? Go...
 
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It's 2024. China and Mexico, two sovereign internationally recognized autonomus states, form a strategic partnership. China ships its troops and installs missiles on the Mexico-US border. What does the USA do? Go...

From Russia with love?

US didn't anex a portion of Mexico nor threaten their territory. If we did, you better believe Mexico would turn to Russia or China.

Ukraine asked for help after getting Crimea anexed so we gave them small arms and trained them. We weren't protecting their border. We kind of ignored them before that.
 

Meeho

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From Russia with love?

US didn't anex a portion of Mexico nor threaten their territory. If we did, you better believe Mexico would turn to Russia or China.

Ukraine asked for help after getting Crimea anexed so we gave them small arms and trained them. We weren't protecting their border. We kind of ignored them before that.
Not an answer. (but also wrong)
 

NickM

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Not an answer. (but also wrong)
You realize that Ukraine signed an accord between the US, Russia, and the UK that in exchange for turning over the nuclear arsenal that they inherited from their time of occupation by the USSR, all of the signatories promised to respect their sovereignty, right?
Respecting their sovereignty means you DON'T FREAKING INVADE.
Short of Ukraine attacking Russia, the Russian Federation is 100% the aggressor here and last time I checked, Ukraine did not ever attack Russia.
The missile strike that they just did doesn't count because Russia invaded. That was a legit strike given the circumstances.
 

Meeho

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You realize that Ukraine signed an accord between the US, Russia, and the UK that in exchange for turning over the nuclear arsenal that they inherited from their time of occupation by the USSR, all of the signatories promised to respect their sovereignty, right?
Respecting their sovereignty means you DON'T FREAKING INVADE.
Short of Ukraine attacking Russia, the Russian Federation is 100% the aggressor here and last time I checked, Ukraine did not ever attack Russia.
The missile strike that they just did doesn't count because Russia invaded. That was a legit strike given the circumstances.
So you do believe accords between the US and Russia should be honored?
 

Jonnycat99

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Ukraine did not ever attack Russia.

No, they have just been committing human rights abuses against Russians living the Ukraine for many years, which along with the Ukrainian government's condoning of the Azov Regiment, formed the basis of Putin's justification to go into Ukraine for the purpose of holding their politicians and government officials accountable.

Ukkids.png
 

toast0

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US didn't anex a portion of Mexico nor threaten their territory. If we did, you better believe Mexico would turn to Russia or China.
What about Texas and California? ;) Maybe Mexico wants help to reunite their historic range?
 

Wade88

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Putin is out of his fuckin mind. If he takes control of Ukraine, he will share an even larger border with NATO. Hopefully he eats a bullet soon, god willing.
Yes it's well-documented that Putin has lost his mind at this point. He no longer listens to the oligarchs that put him there and yells at his staff. Please also consider that if Putin doesn't take all of Ukraine he leaves a buffer state between Russia and Poland.
 
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magda

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Geez!!! CDPR should donate more patches for their Cyberbug 2077 game 😒
 

Krenum

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Yes it's well-documented that Putin has lost his mind at this point. He no longer listens to the oligarchs that put him there and yells at his staff. Please also consider that if Putin doesn't take all of Ukraine he leaves a buffer state between Russia and Poland.
He's gonna have a hell of a time taking Lviv, so close to the Polish border...if he makes it that far.
 

NickM

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So you do believe accords between the US and Russia should be honored?
This was a 4 way deal between the US, the Russian Federation, the UK, and Ukraine.
Are you insinuating that more than one of the signatories broke the deal? If so, please feel free to point out who and how.
 

NickM

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No, they have just been committing human rights abuses against Russians living the Ukraine for many years, which along with the Ukrainian government's condoning of the Azov Regiment, formed the basis of Putin's justification to go into Ukraine for the purpose of holding their politicians and government officials accountable.

View attachment 449415
Sovereign country.
There were Russian in Ukraine because Ukraine was brutalized by the USSR for 80 years.
What they do in their sovereign country is no one's business but their own. That would be like us invading Mexico because US citizens are regularly brutalized by both government and cartel in Mexico.
Do you see us doing that? If we did, would you expect us to be patted on the back by the rest of the world?
 

Meeho

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This was a 4 way deal between the US, the Russian Federation, the UK, and Ukraine.
Are you insinuating that more than one of the signatories broke the deal? If so, please feel free to point out who and how.
No, I'm insinuating that the US broke the most important deal five times before Russia did, which was a result of and response to those five times.
 

Ebernanut

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No, I'm insinuating that the US broke the most important deal five times before Russia did, which was a result of and response to those five times.
Russia attacked and invaded a sovereign nation and according to many more knowledgeable than me they appear to be committing war crimes, I'm not sure what policy disputes you thinks justifies this but it doesn't. The real reason for this is that Ukraine not only didn't elect Putin's puppet but overwhelmingly voted for the opposite in someone that promised to push Ukraine further to the west politically.
 

Meeho

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Russia attacked and invaded a sovereign nation and according to many more knowledgeable than me they appear to be committing war crimes, I'm not sure what policy disputes you thinks justifies this but it doesn't. The real reason for this is that Ukraine not only didn't elect Putin's puppet but overwhelmingly voted for the opposite in someone that promised to push Ukraine further to the west politically.
Justifying and understanding the causes are two different things.

As of today, Russia's actions in Ukraine are not in the same league of destruction and civil casualties as any of the e.g. US foreign excursions in the last three decades. Also, no war crimes have been commited so far from the actual known activities (not from the 90% of fake videos and reports that are disseminated daily on social media and in the news). 10yo Star Wars edits are played on TV stations as actual Ukraine footage, FFS.

The real reasons are well known and warned about by various military leaders, politicians and scholars for many years. Stop listening to simpleton news takes. We live in an unprecedented information age, you don't have to rely on MSM bullshit, political propaganda and ankle deep social media takes (mine included).
 

Meeho

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You guys are still here?

A quick glance and guess what I'm seeing.

I see potential.

I see Genmay 4 life subscription potential.

We're waiting for you.

Fifteen dolla!
True, but this is a charity topic. Each bump makes the OP more visible :)
 

TurboGLH

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No, I'm insinuating that the US broke the most important deal five times before Russia did, which was a result of and response to those five times.

I look forward to reviewing the signed copy or that agreement that NATO wouldn't move further east than former East Germany or into any former SSR/Warsaw pact states.

Russian claims aside, there's absolutely no such agreement, and after 50 years of Soviet occupation Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Poland decided they'd rather be under the. NATO umbrella.

Russia would have done to them what they've been doing to Ukraine for eight years if they hasn't made that decision in 1998 (and 2004)
 

Meeho

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I look forward to reviewing the signed copy or that agreement that NATO wouldn't move further east than former East Germany or into any former SSR/Warsaw pact states.

Russian claims aside, there's absolutely no such agreement, and after 50 years of Soviet occupation Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Poland decided they'd rather be under the. NATO umbrella.

Russia would have done to them what they've been doing to Ukraine for eight years if they hasn't made that decision in 1998 (and 2004)
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/16117-document-06-record-conversation-between

Screenshot_2022-03-03-02-53-28.png

Keep in mind the Soviets lost more people to Germany than all the western nations combined, times two. Giving up control of Germany had to require the strongest possible guarantees. "But muh no official signatures" is a red herring.

Even if you choose to disregard it, Russia has been very clear on this issue for years and Ukraine was specifically stated as the last line. This attack is not a surprise nor an expansionist move. It's a direct response to blatant disregard from NATO members for no valid security reason. I hope "aha, but no signature" helps them sleep at night when innocent people are suffering.

We can always go back to Mexico, too...
 
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TurboGLH

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https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/16117-document-06-record-conversation-between

View attachment 450035

Keep in mind the Soviets lost more people to Germany than all the western nations combined, times two. Giving up control of Germany had to require the strongest possible guarantees. "But muh no official signatures" is a red herring.

Even if you choose to disregard it, Russia has been very clear on this issue for years and Ukraine was specifically stated as the last line. This attack is not a surprise nor an expansionist move. It's a direct response to blatant disregard from NATO members for no valid security reason. I hope "aha, but no signature" helps them sleep at night when innocent people are suffering.

We can always go back to Mexico, too...

It's not a red herring. The idea that something would be so critical to Russia, but not put in writing is ludicrous. A handshake deal is for when you're buying a video card on craigslist, for matters of national and international security, things are done in writing.

In addition, the idea that Russia needs protection from it's neighbors is laughable.

Russia who collaborated with Nazi Germany to divide Poland? Invaded and essentially annexed Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia? Used it's army to crush anti-communist protests in Hungary?

All those countries remember what it was like to live under the Russia boot, still in our lifetime. They don't want to be standing alone the next time Russia decides it wants something from them.

Even after the fall, you still have Transnistria, South Ossetia and Abkhazia, Luhansk, Donestk and Crimea.

The last time Russia was invaded it was by their own ally, on the other hand, it's spent the last 100 years invading it's neighbors. Almost like they're the ones needing a buffer, and not poor innocent Russia.
 

Krenum

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It's not a red herring. The idea that something would be so critical to Russia, but not put in writing is ludicrous. A handshake deal is for when you're buying a video card on craigslist, for matters of national and international security, things are done in writing.

In addition, the idea that Russia needs protection from it's neighbors is laughable.

Russia who collaborated with Nazi Germany to divide Poland? Invaded and essentially annexed Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia? Used it's army to crush anti-communist protests in Hungary?

All those countries remember what it was like to live under the Russia boot, still in our lifetime. They don't want to be standing alone the next time Russia decides it wants something from them.

Even after the fall, you still have Transnistria, South Ossetia and Abkhazia, Luhansk, Donestk and Crimea.

The last time Russia was invaded it was by their own ally, on the other hand, it's spent the last 100 years invading it's neighbors. Almost like they're the ones needing a buffer, and not poor innocent Russia.
Thankfully, the Russian people are beginning to wake up. Their economy is in ruins and I've heard unconfirmed reports and rumors that Putin is going to declare marshall law in the coming days.

It's such a tragidy. We've been through so much these past couple of years with Covid, I'm glad the world is united on this. We just want a break from the madness.
 
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https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/16117-document-06-record-conversation-between

View attachment 450035

Keep in mind the Soviets lost more people to Germany than all the western nations combined, times two. Giving up control of Germany had to require the strongest possible guarantees. "But muh no official signatures" is a red herring.

Even if you choose to disregard it, Russia has been very clear on this issue for years and Ukraine was specifically stated as the last line. This attack is not a surprise nor an expansionist move. It's a direct response to blatant disregard from NATO members for no valid security reason. I hope "aha, but no signature" helps them sleep at night when innocent people are suffering.

We can always go back to Mexico, too...

It's like you're looking for a spec of sawdust in the United State's eye, yet you can't see that Russia has a log

I already showed you that Mexico analogy is an extreme stretch

I mean, you can believe what you want
 

Krenum

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It's like you're looking for a spec of sawdust in the United State's eye, yet you can't see that Russia has a log

I already showed you that Mexico analogy is an extreme stretch

I mean, you can believe what you want
GUYS!

Lets not argue. :)
 

Meeho

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The last time Russia was invaded it was by their own ally, on the other hand, it's spent the last 100 years invading it's neighbors. Almost like they're the ones needing a buffer, and not poor innocent Russia.
They probably have nothing to worry about from the most invading nation of the last 30 years, which also never stopped treating them as an active enemy, coming to their doorstep. We also shouldn't worry about treating such a country in post-WW1 style instead of post-WW2. I'm sure this will end well for all of us if we just keep teaching them a lession there is only one bully in this school.
 

Meeho

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It's like you're looking for a spec of sawdust in the United State's eye, yet you can't see that Russia has a log
A spec many western militart leaders, politicians and scholars have been warning about for years. The world isn't complex, it really can be boiled down to small news snippets so we could learn about historical geopolitical events between Applebees commercials. Putin is a crazy madman, literally Hitler, and that's all there is to it.
I already showed you that Mexico analogy is an extreme stretch
You refused to answer because you know the answer that you can't rectify with your biased worldview.
I mean, you can believe what you want
The reality that explains how we got here. Will do.
 

Flogger23m

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It's not a red herring. The idea that something would be so critical to Russia, but not put in writing is ludicrous. A handshake deal is for when you're buying a video card on craigslist, for matters of national and international security, things are done in writing.

In addition, the idea that Russia needs protection from it's neighbors is laughable.

Russia who collaborated with Nazi Germany to divide Poland? Invaded and essentially annexed Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia? Used it's army to crush anti-communist protests in Hungary?

All those countries remember what it was like to live under the Russia boot, still in our lifetime. They don't want to be standing alone the next time Russia decides it wants something from them.

Even after the fall, you still have Transnistria, South Ossetia and Abkhazia, Luhansk, Donestk and Crimea.

The last time Russia was invaded it was by their own ally, on the other hand, it's spent the last 100 years invading it's neighbors. Almost like they're the ones needing a buffer, and not poor innocent Russia.

Adding onto that, Russia and the Soviet Union have been horrible at wars. Every conflict they've gotten into since at least 1900 they've done horribly in. Exception being WWII, but they propped up by the US fighting an enemy that had to fight a two front war. Russia has a habit of getting into wars and doing terrible in them. Polish Soviet War, Winter War, invasion of Georgia. You name it.
 

Meeho

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People excusing the behavior of NATO and shifting the blame solely on Russia are responsible for supporting the policies their governments enacted that resulted in this invasion and casualties, and are continuing to worsen the situation of the people in Ukraine by promoting current bad handling. I hope their colored profile pictures and Russia=bad stances help them feel good about themselves and sleep peacefully.
 

TurboGLH

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They probably have nothing to worry about from the most invading nation of the last 30 years, which also never stopped treating them as an active enemy, coming to their doorstep. We also shouldn't worry about treating such a country in post-WW1 style instead of post-WW2. I'm sure this will end well for all of us if we just keep teaching them a lession there is only one bully in this school.

Reeeeee. You're so concerned about Russian security concerns, but you nicely glossed over the concerns of the other states involved in this story.

You come in with tales of invasion from the west, millions of deaths and agreements so critical they warrant aggression and war, but only exist as a single sentence on a tape.

Why does Russia, the aggressor and enslaver of it's neighbors, NEED a buffer, but the states in question aren't allowed to handle their own security?

We're not talking hypothetically, we're talking about the fact that, of the countries that joined NATO after 1998, Russia had been out right hostile to a good number of them.
 
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Reeeeee. You're so concerned about Russian security concerns, but you nicely glossed over the concerns of the other states involved in this story.

You come in with tales of invasion from the west, millions of deaths and agreements so critical they warrant aggression and war, but only exist as a single sentence on a tape.

Why does Russia, the aggressor and enslaver of it's neighbors, NEED a buffer, but the states in question aren't allowed to handle their own security?

We're not talking hypothetically, we're talking about the fact that, of the countries that joined NATO after 1998, Russia had been out right hostile to a good number of them.
Lmao, we threatened a nuclear war when the Soviets put missiles in Cuba but you expected Russia to just roll over and take it when we put stuff closer and closer to them? They've complained about all this for decades. People and organizations have demanded investigations into Ukraine for corruption and potential war crimes due to their internal security issues for years and all of that magically gets ignored because Putin finally followed through with his threats? This is probably the most avoidable war that's happened in our lifetimes, and the hubris that got us into this situation not only hasn't been addressed, but will likely cause this entire thing to spiral.
 

Meeho

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Reeeeee. You're so concerned about Russian security concerns, but you nicely glossed over the concerns of the other states involved in this story.
No, unlike you I am very concerned about Ukraine and the rest of Europe. That is the whole point! The US doesn't give a shit about Ukraine, they just use it as their geopolitical pawn and it's the Ukranians (currently) that are paying the price. I live in a post-communist country and lived through a war with a genocidal communist regime. I am as far removed from loving Russia as you get, but that doesn't mean I can't recognize geopolitical plays that lead to current situation.
You come in with tales of invasion from the west, millions of deaths and agreements so critical they warrant aggression and war, but only exist as a single sentence on a tape.
There were no US invasions in the last three decades? Millions hadn't died in WW2? US carpet bombed for far less. Only exists as a promise between world leaders during negotiations around the most contentious country in modern history.
Why does Russia, the aggressor and enslaver of it's neighbors, NEED a buffer, but the states in question aren't allowed to handle their own security?
That's rich.
We're not talking hypothetically, we're talking about the fact that, of the countries that joined NATO after 1998, Russia had been out right hostile to a good number of them.
Name one. While you're at it, name one aggressive action from Russia up to 2007 that warranted continuous NATO expansion. Then name one that wasn't related to aggressive geopolitical moves from the west.
 
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TurboGLH

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No, unlike you I am very concerned about Ukraine and the rest of Europe. That is the whole point! The US doesn't give a shit about Ukraine, they just use it as their geopolitical pawn and it's the Ukranians (currently) that are paying the price. I live in a post-communist country and lived through a war with a genocidal communist regime. I am as far removed from loving Russia as you get, but that doesn't mean I can't recognize geopolitical plays that lead to current situation.

There were no US invasions in the last three decades? Millions hadn't died in WW2? US carpet bombed for far less. Only exists as a promise between world leaders during negotiations around the most contentious country in modern history.

That's rich.

Name one. While you're at it, name one aggressive action from Russia up to 2007 that warranted continuous NATO expansion. Then name one that wasn't related to aggressive geopolitical moves from the west.


Name one? They invaded and annexed Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, installed communist governments and forced them into the USSR.

They've kept troops in Moldova since 1991.

They invaded Georgia and established troops in the breakaway regions there.

Invaded and annexed Crimea.

Again, you rail on about US aggression, and NATO expansion, but it's Russia's own history that brought those countries into NATO, and you ignore their own security needs while shrieking on about Russian wants.
 

Meeho

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Name one? They invaded and annexed Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, installed communist governments and forced them into the USSR.
I asked about Russia. If we're going by past transgressions, Germany should be expelled from NATO immediately.
They've kept troops in Moldova since 1991.
Kept troops in a region that separated by itself, not invaded it. And hasn't incorporated it into Russia despite Transnistria's wishes.
They invaded Georgia and established troops in the breakaway regions there.

Invaded and annexed Crimea.
After 2007. and after NATO expansions.
Again, you rail on about US aggression, and NATO expansion, but it's Russia's own history that brought those countries into NATO, and you ignore their own security needs while shrieking on about Russian wants.
You're childishly naive if you think Ukraine gets a say regarding NATO membership. It's just not how the world works. Remember the Cuban crisis. Think of it for the Mexico scenario.

Ask yourself honestly if you believe we would be in the current situation had the US gone with the Marshall plan, a Germany like policy towards Russia in 1991., instead of the eternal enemy one
 
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