Canon Sued over Multifunction Printers that Refuse to Scan When Ink runs out.

Zarathustra[H]

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Well, I know what I'd do if I won a few hundred million on the lottery.

I'd retire and use the money to sue companies that piss me off like this :p

While using his Pixma MG6320 printer from Canon, the plaintiff was surprised to discover that the "all-in-one" machine would refuse to scan or fax documents if the printer ran out of ink.

As ink is not necessary to perform scans or faxes, the argument is that the printer features should continue to work even if there is no ink in the device.

"Plaintiff Leacraft would not have purchased the device or would not have paid as much for it had he known that he would have to maintain ink in the device in order to scan documents," reads the complaint for the class action lawsuit."


Since at least 2016, other customers have contacted Canon about this exact problem and were told by support agents that ink cartridges must be installed and contain ink to use the printer's features, as shown by the agent's response below.

canon-reply.jpg


Go get 'em!


5_245816302_4922161844483568_7974622788399006278_n.jpg
 

illli

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Epson does the same thing...err... sorta. There is an internal ink pad that eventually over time gets "filled up" (for lack of a better term) and one it reaches a maximum, determined by epson, the printer throws out an error message and the only option you have is to shut it down. I have no idea why a full ink pad would prevent a printer from scanning documents, but it does.
 

Nobu

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Epson does the same thing...err... sorta. There is an internal ink pad that eventually over time gets "filled up" (for lack of a better term) and one it reaches a maximum, determined by epson, the printer throws out an error message and the only option you have is to shut it down. I have no idea why a full ink pad would prevent a printer from scanning documents, but it does.
Lazy programming and/or trying to save a few cents on the eeprom.
 

TheBuzzer

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this is just lazy programming, if there is an error of any type refuse to do anything.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Not lazy programming at all. Software is doing exactly what the sales management teams have asked their software development teams to create.

So, everyone knows we sell the printers at a loss right?

And we have to make it up on ink?

Alright, so figure out as many ways to get people to buy ink as possible, once we roped 'em in with the loss leader printer...
 

t1337duder

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Lazy programming and/or trying to save a few cents on the eeprom.
There's lazy and then there's negligence. Lazy programming will often mean the code might be sloppy or otherwise inefficient. As a programmer, I'm having a hard time figuring out how you could even make that mistake as an accident. Could someone explain the programming logic that would leave room for a mistake such as this? I'm not seeing it.
 

vegeta535

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So, everyone knows we sell the printers at a loss right?

And we have to make it up on ink?

Alright, so figure out as many ways to get people to buy ink as possible, once we roped 'em in with the loss leader printer...
With the stupid prices of ink some companies charge you might as well throw the printer away and buy a new one.
 

ChadD

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So, everyone knows we sell the printers at a loss right?

And we have to make it up on ink?

Alright, so figure out as many ways to get people to buy ink as possible, once we roped 'em in with the loss leader printer...

Exactly. Its funny its been a slow progression. I remember selling the first multi function units way way back when I was young enough to still be selling consumer stuff. Back then they where just mildly annoying when they ran out of ink. Then a few years later they got full on super annoying complaining and "cleaning heads" every time you turned it on if the cartridge didn't report it was 2 days fresh. Now probably for what the last decade... they just brick themselves till they get ink. Laser has always been cheaper per copy... really at this point buy a Monocrome brother laser. Order your photo prints somewhere... its far far cheaper.
 

Nobu

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There's lazy and then there's negligence. Lazy programming will often mean the code might be sloppy or otherwise inefficient. As a programmer, I'm having a hard time figuring out how you could even make that mistake as an accident. Could someone explain the programming logic that would leave room for a mistake such as this? I'm not seeing it.
It's not negligence if you did it on purpose. It is lazy if you decided not to do it completely because "it's fine as long as it does what they wanted." (Disable printing if there's no ink). I suppose you could go farther and say it was some other sort of spite if someone specifically told them to disable all functions if there was no ink.
 

vegeta535

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Canon: Making the Paperless Office A Better Reality.
My office is pretty paperless. There is one old dude insists to print everything and keep it. Every time he prints a email he reprints the entire thing every time there is a response. This guy kill a tree a day with the paper he wasted.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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My office is pretty paperless. There is one old dude insists to print everything and keep it. Every time he prints a email he reprints the entire thing every time there is a response. This guy kill a tree a day with the paper he wasted.

Once we get our damn DocuSign implementation validated to FDA standards we will be pretty close as well. We waste a ton of paper right now printing signature sheets, signing them in pen, and then scanning them.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Exactly. Its funny its been a slow progression. I remember selling the first multi function units way way back when I was young enough to still be selling consumer stuff. Back then they where just mildly annoying when they ran out of ink. Then a few years later they got full on super annoying complaining and "cleaning heads" every time you turned it on if the cartridge didn't report it was 2 days fresh. Now probably for what the last decade... they just brick themselves till they get ink. Laser has always been cheaper per copy... really at this point buy a Monocrome brother laser. Order your photo prints somewhere... its far far chcheaper

I have two lasers at home. One HP LaserJet p2055dn i rescued from a recycling bin at work. The thing is barely broken in, but they were outsourcing printing to one of those rental services and a bunch were being thrown in tbe bin. They tried giving them away. Even the schools didn't want them.

I also have a HP Color LaserJet MFP 277c6 i got on closeout sale. Pretty much bought it for the scanner, but thought prining in color might be nice now and then as well.

The low capacity trial toners it came with lasted me like 5 years.

It felt silly for a while until the pandemic, when I have been printing, signing and scanning like crazy from home.
 
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ChadD

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I have two lasers at home. One HP LaserJet p2055dn i rescued from a recycling bin at work. The thing is barely broken in, but they were outsourcing printing to one of those rental services and a bunch were being thrown in tbe bin. They tried giving them away. Even the schools didn't want them.

I also have a HP Color LaserJet MFP 277c i got on closeout sale. Pretty much bought it for the scanner, but thought prining in color might be nice now and then as well.

The low capacity trial toners it came with lasted me like 5 years.

It felt silly for a while until the pandemic, when I have been printing, signing and scanning like crazy from home.
I haven't sold computer stuff in something like 25 years... but way back then HP used to hook sales people up nicely. (I have a 1mb HP digital camera around some where I should find and sell haha) They gave me one of their Laserjets I can't remember the model... they gave me one full size toner with it and the thing probably died a decade ago. I bet if I was able to find one of those old toners the thing would still print... assuming I could find a working machine with a parallel port anyway. HP made some tanks... not sure if anything more recent would hold up, probably not.
 

auntjemima

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Glad I bought a used brother printer a few years ago. Ink is next to nothing on Amazon (like $8 for 15 cartridges) and always works.

Only complaint? It won't print black and white if it's out of one of the colours but black is good to go.
 

illli

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So, everyone knows we sell the printers at a loss right?

And we have to make it up on ink?

Alright, so figure out as many ways to get people to buy ink as possible, once we roped 'em in with the loss leader printer...

Not only that, but using only their expensive branded ink, with the little chip on each cartridge that the printer reads for verification. People found ways around it, but yeah for a few years now printer companies have been slowly going in this direction
 

maro

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With the stupid prices of ink some companies charge you might as well throw the printer away and buy a new one.
I don't print all that much at home, and not very regularly so the disposable printer concept works well for me. Last one was a basic Samsung B&W laserjet that I got new for around $50. It did come with a 'starter toner' but that was still good for 300-500 pages and at the rate I print stuff that lasted years. Replacement toner was more than I paid for the printer. I now have a nice Brother all in one that I really like - I may actually get a toner for this if it runs out on me... if thats anything like the Samsung by that time I'll want a newer printer anyway :D
 

vegeta535

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I don't print all that much at home, and not very regularly so the disposable printer concept works well for me. Last one was a basic Samsung B&W laserjet that I got new for around $50. It did come with a 'starter toner' but that was still good for 300-500 pages and at the rate I print stuff that lasted years. Replacement toner was more than I paid for the printer. I now have a nice Brother all in one that I really like - I may actually get a toner for this if it runs out on me... if thats anything like the Samsung by that time I'll want a newer printer anyway :D
I rescued a perfectly good brother b/w laser printer from work. They replaced all the printers with crappy HP ones so they could consolidate to one set of printer cartridges as a cost savings. Well I got one year out of the toner cartridge that even going with OEMs was $150. A set of the HP carts cost $150. Every month I have to change out the black and at least one color cart. I rarely print in color and it will not let me print if the software deems unfit for use. Also the damn software keeps bugging me make a cloud account. Not to mention it always gets jammed when I load up the scanner. The brother just worked and sucked everything in. I was pissed when I came in and it was replaced with the crappy HP. I found it in the dumpster where I fished it out and took it home after a cleaning.
 
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<----All the printers.

Back in 2004 during finals week, a few guys from my college dorm floor did this to a printer and hung the parts from the ceiling in the hallway as modern art. One guy even punched it with his bear hands. Of course we played the appropriate music in the background while we did this.
 

MrGuvernment

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Lazy programming and/or trying to save a few cents on the eeprom.
No, all about money, you can 110% bet they do this on purpose, it would actually take MORE development to trigger a sensor to then shut down another completely different function of the device.
 

Krazy925

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I have two lasers at home. One HP LaserJet p2055dn i rescued from a recycling bin at work. The thing is barely broken in, but they were outsourcing printing to one of those rental services and a bunch were being thrown in tbe bin. They tried giving them away. Even the schools didn't want them.

I also have a HP Color LaserJet MFP 277c i got on closeout sale. Pretty much bought it for the scanner, but thought prining in color might be nice now and then as well.

The low capacity trial toners it came with lasted me like 5 years.

It felt silly for a while until the pandemic, when I have been printing, signing and scanning like crazy from home.
That HP 277 color I have at the office, in my home office and the Presidents home office. Great printer for small deployments.

The main one is starting to grind when I run the rollers. I probably need to oil it lol.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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That HP 277 color I have at the office, in my home office and the Presidents home office. Great printer for small deployments.

The main one is starting to grind when I run the rollers. I probably need to oil it lol.

Only complaint I hqve is that the scanner ADF doesnt do double sided scanning. Other than that it has been perfect for me.
 

nthexwn

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Over the last 20 years I've caught various printers:
  1. Automatically running unnecessary maintenance cycles every time they turn on in order to burn through more ink so that I'll have to buy more ink from the printer company.
  2. Automatically running unnecessary maintenance cycles at random times every day or two in order to burn through more ink so that I'll have to buy more ink from the printer company.
  3. Insisting on re-running maintenance cycles every time there's a paper jam (IE: every time I try to print) in order to burn through more ink so that I'll have to buy more ink from the printer company.
  4. Combining all of the colors together to produce black output instead of actually using the black ink that's there so that I'll have to buy more ink from the printer company.
  5. Refusing to print in black and white because color ink cartridges are out so that I'll have to buy more ink from the printer company.
  6. Gradually reporting that there's less and less ink in the cartridges over time even though it's all still physically there so that I'll have to buy more ink from the printer company.
  7. Refusing to print when the ink is below a certain threshold which is dozens of percentage points above where the level would even begin to affect the output quality so that I'll have to buy more ink from the printer company.
  8. Refusing to accept ink cartridges provided by other vendors so that I'll have to buy more ink from the printer company.
  9. Refusing to accept ink cartridges provided by the printer company so that I'll have to buy more ink from the printer company.
Incidentally, I now avoid using physical documents wherever possible. Fuck the printer company.
 

Mchart

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This is generally why the consumer grade inkjets should be avoided at all costs. They just aren’t worth it. I keep a BW laser printer for document printing, and that’s it. It’s about 6 years old and still on the original toner cartridge.
 

Wat

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For what its worth, you are not 'saving trees' by not using paper. The paper industry uses the garbage wood that cannot be used for something else. The slabs from the outside of the tree when a sawmill makes the first cut to square up the trunk to cut lumber. Trees that have rot, too crooked or other damage that would prevent them being used for something else.
These trees would not be saved if there was no demand for paper. The only difference is that they would be left to rot or burned as biomass.
There are other parts of the world where they grow trees specifically for pulp and paper, but not in the developed world.
And don't be fooled by recycled paper. It actually takes more energy and chemicals to process, de-ink, and dispose of the sludge than it does to make paper from wood chips.
The post office and the printer manufacturers have killed the printed paper segment of the industry.
 

nthexwn

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For what its worth, you are not 'saving trees' by not using paper. The paper industry uses the garbage wood that cannot be used for something else. The slabs from the outside of the tree when a sawmill makes the first cut to square up the trunk to cut lumber. Trees that have rot, too crooked or other damage that would prevent them being used for something else.
These trees would not be saved if there was no demand for paper. The only difference is that they would be left to rot or burned as biomass.
There are other parts of the world where they grow trees specifically for pulp and paper, but not in the developed world.
And don't be fooled by recycled paper. It actually takes more energy and chemicals to process, de-ink, and dispose of the sludge than it does to make paper from wood chips.
The post office and the printer manufacturers have killed the printed paper segment of the industry.
Thanks for sharing! That's interesting, but not too surprising. Mostly I'm just satisfied at how much more space-efficient paperless living is. All the information on every piece of paper which I've ever looked at now fits inside an M.2 drive the size of my middle finger. You can probably guess which companies I'm holding out that finger for.
 

aliaskary77

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Have not owed a printer in over 12 years. Most inkjet cartridges used to dry out before i even got a third of the way through it. I am fully electronic at home, scanning everything and signing digitally. Rare instance I have to print something, I go to Staples, etc.
 

HeadRusch

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Suggestion: Get an inexpensive laser all in one for anything print related (toner lasts decades), and do any color printing you need to do via Walgreens :p Or get a Canon Selphy Dye-Sublimation printer for making 4x6's...they will not last forever (the printer I mean, mechanically they're kinda crap, the prints are great and are even semi waterproof) but they use ribbons that come with the printing paper/stock you need to use with them, they are relatively cheap and make good normal-sized prints (20 cents a print maybe?).....still, the last one I bought died after 4 years, but in that time I never had to replace an ink cartridge, it had the common decency to just have an internal component fail and die quickly on me.
 

xx0xx

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After getting a Brother laser printer for home use for occasional printouts, I won't use anything else. It was inexpensive and is the best printer I've ever owned.
 

ZodaEX

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Thanks for sharing! That's interesting, but not too surprising. Mostly I'm just satisfied at how much more space-efficient paperless living is. All the information on every piece of paper which I've ever looked at now fits inside an M.2 drive the size of my middle finger. You can probably guess which companies I'm holding out that finger for.

Hopefully Asus and Cooler Master for lying about the Kfconsole.
 
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