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Veeb0rg

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Right now I have a single 5830 on a dell mobo bolted to a peice of wood sitting on a shelving unit.

It stays around 50c at full load.
 

meme

Limp Gawd
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No, they don't show that. The Week 18-20 and 20-22 increases are the only jumps over 40% this year.

Please look at the data.

I have. The number of weeks over 40% this year is an irrelevant statistic. The average increase is what's important. Look at the last 3 months, or the last 6 months, or the last 9 months, or the last year, and you'll see that the difficulty is doubling about every 4 weeks.

I think what you're missing is that the difficulty level is only "supposed" to go up every 2 weeks, and yet frequently in your list of data, it goes up twice in 2 weeks. So a bunch of what appear to be small increases are actually much larger if you look at how much the difficulty went up over a 2 week period.
 

TheGeekFreek

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Figured I would share my data with you guys.. These were the best trimmed settings I could get without any changes in voltage..

SYSTEM
Mobo: GA890FXA-UD4
CPU: Phenom II 555 (Unlocked Quad, Multi x18 3.6Ghz)
Mem: Corsair XMS3 (4x2Gb) 1600MHz Cas9
PSU: 1000w Kingwin Laser


VIDEO CARD 1
NON-REFERENCE - Sapphire 6950
(Currently in Top x16 PCIE)
Non-Xfire, Monitor Attached

800Mhz - GPU Clock
1250MHz - Memory Clock
0% - Power Control
55-67% - Fans
TRIXX GPU to 888
173F - Average Temp
343-356 - MHash/s (356.2 MAX)


VIDEO CARD 2
REFERENCE - Sapphire 6950
Non-Xfire (Dummy Plug)
(Currently in x4 PCIE)
6970 Shader Unlock Only
855MHz - GPU Clock
1375MHz - Memory Clock
0% - Power Control
56% - Fan (Any higher than this and I being to go deaf.. Refs are LOUD!)
173F - Average Temp

351-354 - MHash/s (371.6 Max)





Note that it is kinda finnicky to get the settings correct as I have to control the Reference card with CCC while turning the Non-Ref card with TRIXX to get the GPU clock up to 888.. If you open CCC while TRIXX is running it sets the NON-REF card back to default so I have to reapply the settings... So set your CCC settings first, then to TRIXX.. Also note.. At 191F these cards will lock up..

Is there a way to make TRIXX see both cards?
 
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Lorien

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The average increase is what's important.
Average increase means nothing. I'll let you figure out why ;)
Look at the last 3 months, or the last 6 months, or the last 9 months, or the last year, and you'll see that the difficulty is doubling about every 4 weeks.
No you have it backwards. The pace at which difficulty changes (up or down) is a measure of hashing power, nothing more.
I think what you're missing is that the difficulty level is only "supposed" to go up every 2 weeks,
The only thing difficulty is supposed to do is change. There is a difference between changing and decreasing/increasing.
...and yet frequently in your list of data, it goes up twice in 2 weeks.
So? That only means the network's hashing power increased so rapidly that it was able to solve 4032 blocks. I'll let you figure out where that number came from.
So a bunch of what appear to be small increases are actually much larger if you look at how much the difficulty went up over a 2 week period.
Again you have it completely backwards. :)

P.S: As homework let me give you this little morsel. When the network solves the 210000th block people will no longer receive 50 coins as a reward, only 25. Try to work that into your math. :)
 

meme

Limp Gawd
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Average increase means nothing. I'll let you figure out why ;)
No you have it backwards. The pace at which difficulty changes (up or down) is a measure of hashing power, nothing more.
The only thing difficulty is supposed to do is change. There is a difference between changing and decreasing/increasing.
So? That only means the network's hashing power increased so rapidly that it was able to solve 4032 blocks. I'll let you figure out where that number came from.
Again you have it completely backwards. :)

P.S: As homework let me give you this little morsel. When the network solves the 210000th block people will no longer receive 50 coins as a reward, only 25. Try to work that into your math. :)

I understand all that. I know that the difficulty is increasing because the amount of computing power on the network is increasing. This is obvious. I'm not sure what your point is, though.

I'm saying that a trend which has been going on for the past year and a half is likely to continue. What are you saying?
 
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I have. The number of weeks over 40% this year is an irrelevant statistic. The average increase is what's important. Look at the last 3 months, or the last 6 months, or the last 9 months, or the last year, and you'll see that the difficulty is doubling about every 4 weeks.
It doesn't appear that you have, since you keep changing your stance. Keep moving that goalpost I'm sure you'll eventually get one right. The average increase is irrelevant for predicting future performance here. There aren't going to be another 450,000 Radeon 5850s brought online in a two week period. Your example was wrong. Deal with it.


I think what you're missing is that the difficulty level is only "supposed" to go up every 2 weeks, and yet frequently in your list of data, it goes up twice in 2 weeks. So a bunch of what appear to be small increases are actually much larger if you look at how much the difficulty went up over a 2 week period.
Earlier you dismiss outliers in performance but here you are hung up on them? It's hard to follow this incongruence in your logic.

I'm saying that a trend which has been going on for the past year and a half is likely to continue. What are you saying?
I think he's saying it's stupid to think that one million 5850s are going to materialize.
 
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Kueller

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Figured I would share my data with you guys.. These were the best trimmed settings I could get without any changes in voltage..


VIDEO CARD 2
REFERENCE - Sapphire 6950
Non-Xfire (Dummy Plug)
(Currently in x4 PCIE)
6970 Shader Unlock Only
855MHz - GPU Clock
1375MHz - Memory Clock
0% - Power Control
56% - Fan (Any higher than this and I being to go deaf.. Refs are LOUD!)
173F - Average Temp

351-354 - MHash/s (371.6 Max)


Note that it is kinda finnicky to get the settings correct as I have to control the Reference card with CCC while turning the Non-Ref card with TRIXX to get the GPU clock up to 888.. If you open CCC while TRIXX is running it sets the NON-REF card back to default so I have to reapply the settings... So set your CCC settings first, then to TRIXX.. Also note.. At 191F these cards will lock up..

Is there a way to make TRIXX see both cards?

No point in pushing clocks past 800mhz if you're going to leave Power Control at 0%, they just get throttled down anyways. 855mhz core should be more in the 370Mhash/s area, 888mhz ~380Mhash/s.
 

Omegas

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No point in pushing clocks past 800mhz if you're going to leave Power Control at 0%, they just get throttled down anyways. 855mhz core should be more in the 370Mhash/s area, 888mhz ~380Mhash/s.

If he decreases the ram speed, he should be able to hit higher clocks without adjusting Power Control.
 

Kardonxt

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yep, you and veeborg, lol, gotta do what ya gotta do in situations like these...

lol same here. I had to wedge spacers between the cards to keep the temps down. My mining room is well over 100 degrees.

IMAG0395.jpg


IMAG0396.jpg
 

Parja

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It doesn't appear that you have, since you keep changing your stance. Keep moving that goalpost I'm sure you'll eventually get one right. The average increase is irrelevant for predicting future performance here. There aren't going to be another 450,000 Radeon 5850s brought online in a two week period. Your example was wrong. Deal with it.

But it has followed this trend almost perfectly for over a year now. You may not think it makes sense to use this extrapolation of future hashing power, but it's a trend that is not showing any signs of not continuing for the near future.

I think he's saying it's stupid to think that one million 5850s are going to materialize.

No, they're not. But I've got two words for you...Southern Islands.
 

Clockworks

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I've been hearing that getting in on the bitcoin mining business is now a waste of time and money. Is this true? i don't have a rig at the moment but would like to try to start it up.

I pay about $0.10/kwh, with a rig doing about 300W, I would need to mine enough to break even on electricity costs of $22 extra a month.
 

Yakk

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I've been hearing that getting in on the bitcoin mining business is now a waste of time and money. Is this true? i don't have a rig at the moment but would like to try to start it up.

I pay about $0.10/kwh, with a rig doing about 300W, I would need to mine enough to break even on electricity costs of $22 extra a month.

If you are pulling just 300w, what are you using? At $13 (medium-worst case scenario) a bitcoin, you'll breakeven at +/- 1.7 bitcoins a month for electricity.

All depends on your hardware... even at $0.10/kwh (relatively high) if you can pull .5 a bitcoin per day (at current difficulty that is approximately what 1x 5870 does). you're still be making a good profit for the time being.
 

Clockworks

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If you are pulling just 300w, what are you using? At $13 (medium-worst case scenario) a bitcoin, you'll breakeven at +/- 1.7 bitcoins a month for electricity.

All depends on your hardware... even at $0.10/kwh (relatively high) if you can pull .5 a bitcoin per day. you're still making a good profit for the time being.

I figured about 180W for the card and about 120W for the rest of the system, no monitor. HD6950 for the video card.
 

jiminator

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I'd not recommend buying a system to do this. if you could use a recent graphics card for games then get an amd and use it for mining on the off hours.
 

sethmo

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I've been hearing that getting in on the bitcoin mining business is now a waste of time and money. Is this true? i don't have a rig at the moment but would like to try to start it up.

I pay about $0.10/kwh, with a rig doing about 300W, I would need to mine enough to break even on electricity costs of $22 extra a month.

It really depends on your hashing power. If you are just going to mine on a 5770 or one 5830, it may not be worth your time. If you are going to be using a few different cards, you can still make a decent amount of money. But it all really depends on the difficulty and the exchanges. If the more the difficulty goes up and the more the btc exchanges goes down, the less profitable it will be.
 

Yakk

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Too costly for me, but thanks anyway :)

So what would happen once the difficulty increases to some 4M, more coins are released? It's at 877k right now but it's going up constantly.

If bitcoin value follows the difficulty curve, then profitability stays as-is. If bitcoin value does not increase with difficulty, then profitability decreases.

Basic economics.
 

wol-va-rine

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I'd not recommend buying a system to do this. if you could use a recent graphics card for games then get an amd and use it for mining on the off hours.

I have a 5850 (secondary card) mining 24/7 in my rig now and mine most of the time with my 6850 (primary card), the only time I stop mining with the 6850 is when I game, once I'm finished gaming I start the mining again and can easily surf the web, watch videos, etc., while mining at the same time with the 6850...
 

Clockworks

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I have a 5850 (secondary card) mining 24/7 in my rig now and mine most of the time with my 6850 (primary card), the only time I stop mining with the 6850 is when I game, once I'm finished gaming I start the mining again and can easily surf the web, watch videos, etc., while mining at the same time with the 6850...

How many hashes do you get with that 6850?

And why is the 5850 the golden boy for this? The card is about 2 years old, shouldn't the high-end 6xxx series completely crush it in terms of hash rate?

If I were to get a HD6950, would it matter which one it was? There are some that go for $280+ on newegg and others are $230-250, both having 2GB of RAM. Clock speed not withstanding, can't I just oc ether cards to a faster clock rate and save the money or am I missing something?
 

Lorien

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Zepher

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How do you know if it is working?
All I see on the bottom of the window is | 8 Connections | 59610 blocks | 0 transactions

The Blocks started at 1000 and counted up to that number and just stopped when I started to post this.

I don't seem to be using any more power either, wattage is still at 265-273, which is my idle wattage.

EDIT: Blocks are now counting up again but wattage is still only 273.
 

Rahburt-33

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Zepher you need to get an actual mining program. What you are running is just the wallet. Look into getting a program to mine with (I use phoenix)
Find a good pool to mine from, and make the miner mine in the pool.
 

Zepher

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Zepher you need to get an actual mining program. What you are running is just the wallet. Look into getting a program to mine with (I use phoenix)
Find a good pool to mine from, and make the miner mine in the pool.

Oh, ok. thanks.
 

Dallows

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How do you know if it is working?
All I see on the bottom of the window is | 8 Connections | 59610 blocks | 0 transactions

The Blocks started at 1000 and counted up to that number and just stopped when I started to post this.

I don't seem to be using any more power either, wattage is still at 265-273, which is my idle wattage.

EDIT: Blocks are now counting up again but wattage is still only 273.

The bitcoin client needs to download all the blocks first. Which is pretty high right now - 132843 so you have a little ways to go. Only then will the mining be able to start... I think. Pretty sure.
 

burningrave101

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Oh, ok. thanks.

Search for GUIMiner and download that then select one of the pools from the Server list in it and go sign up at that pool's website. After that its just a matter of putting in your username and password along with additional flags in the "Extra flags" box which are switches that improve performance.
 
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But it has followed this trend almost perfectly for over a year now. You may not think it makes sense to use this extrapolation of future hashing power, but it's a trend that is not showing any signs of not continuing for the near future.

There is no reason to expect the processing power to continue to grow exponentially.
In Jun 2010 the total network rate was the equivalent of one or two Radeon 5850s.
Hardly a point to make inferences from.
 

Kardonxt

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There is no reason to expect the processing power to continue to grow exponentially.
In Jun 2010 the total network rate was the equivalent of one or two Radeon 5850s.
Hardly a point to make inferences from.

I agree

Other than the people with large farms i don't foresee many people buying systems to mine with after this next difficulty increase. It's already almost not worth it.

I expect within the next few difficulty increases many people will stop bothering to mine and difficulty will stabilize or even drop a bit. (assuming bit coin prices don't jump but the last 2 difficulty increases have had no effect on price. )
 

Clockworks

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How many hashes do you get with that 6850?

And why is the 5850 the golden boy for this? The card is about 2 years old, shouldn't the high-end 6xxx series completely crush it in terms of hash rate?

If I were to get a HD6950, would it matter which one it was? There are some that go for $280+ on newegg and others are $230-250, both having 2GB of RAM. Clock speed not withstanding, can't I just oc ether cards to a faster clock rate and save the money or am I missing something?

Hey wol-va-rine, can you make any more comments on this? I'm very curious. Many thanks. :)
 

sethmo

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Hey wol-va-rine, can you make any more comments on this? I'm very curious. Many thanks. :)

Hashing power is mostly about the number of shaders your card has. The 58xx series cards have more shaders respectively then th 68xx cards.

5850 has 1440
5870 has 1600
6850 has 960
6970 has 1536

Right now for new 6xxx cards, a 6950 reference cards that can have its shaders unlocked to 6970 shaders is about the best mining card/$ you can get right now.
 

Clockworks

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Hashing power is mostly about the number of shaders your card has. The 58xx series cards have more shaders respectively then th 68xx cards.

5850 has 1440
5870 has 1600
6850 has 960
6970 has 1536

Right now for new 6xxx cards, a 6950 reference cards that can have its shaders unlocked to 6970 shaders is about the best mining card/$ you can get right now.

That's pretty spiffy, how do we know if the card be unlocked or not? Or how do we know it's a reference card?
 

Lorien

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Hey wol-va-rine, can you make any more comments on this? I'm very curious. Many thanks. :)

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_a_GP...CPU#Why_are_AMD_GPUs_faster_than_Nvidia_GPUs?

- Number of shaders: The more you have the better because it allows you to pump out more MH/s.
- Power consumption: The lower it is, the lower your power bill (remember you have to power these things at 100% load 24/7), the higher your profit.
- Price: And old used card costs less than a new card.

The 5850 hits the sweet spot of MH/s, low power consumption and low price (or it used to before the frenzy started anyways). The HD6K series cost more, consume more power and have less shaders than their HD5K counterparts (HD5870 = 1600 shaders, HD6970=1536 shaders, HD5850=1440 shaders, HD6950=1408 shaders)

One special case: The 6950 is considered a good value despite having less shaders and consuming more power because it can be unlocked to get all the 1536 shaders of a 6970.

P.S: beaten by sethmo
 

sethmo

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That's pretty spiffy, how do we know if the card be unlocked or not? Or how do we know it's a reference card?

A reference 6950 typically has the standard AMD red fan at the end of the card. They will also have a dual BIOS switch towards the front of the card.

I have two of these MSI cards, I was able to unlock the shaders on both cards and overclock the core to beyond 6970 speeds.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...4127555&cm_re=msi_6950-_-14-127-555-_-Product
 

Parja

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So what would happen once the difficulty increases to some 4M, more coins are released? It's at 877k right now but it's going up constantly.

Difficulty adjusts automatically to try to maintain a block find rate of 1 every 10 minutes.

So basically, the difficulty will always try to stay in the same proportion to the total system hashing power.
 

wol-va-rine

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How many hashes do you get with that 6850?

And why is the 5850 the golden boy for this? The card is about 2 years old, shouldn't the high-end 6xxx series completely crush it in terms of hash rate?

If I were to get a HD6950, would it matter which one it was? There are some that go for $280+ on newegg and others are $230-250, both having 2GB of RAM. Clock speed not withstanding, can't I just oc ether cards to a faster clock rate and save the money or am I missing something?

I get 230+ MH/s with my 6850 (about 190 when surfing the web and such) and got my 5850 as high as 366MH/s with SDK v2.1, stream processors are everything when you're talking bitcoins...

because of the shift in price and unavailability of the 5850s the 5830s are now the golden cards...
 
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