Asus 7950 DC II (Literally) Caught Fire

Raja@ASUS

ASUS Community Support
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I replied to cl-jeffery. I have not been contacted by anyone else, either thru here, the ROG forums, or by email.



I appreciate the response and assistance and I have replied to cl-jeffery with my RMA number. I understand you're trying to uphold the image of your company, although I'm not quite sure what you're accusing me of. I'll leave it at that, and if there's any further information I can provide that would illuminate the situation. I will gladly oblige.



I sure as hell wish I knew what I did to damage it. It's not like I just decided to see what I could do to set a $350 gpu on fire. I blew dust out of it with a can of dust off, along with the rest of the PC, the same process I've been doing for years and has never damaged anything. I don't think I'm alone in that process either I then replaced the card in the PCI-E slot and connected the two 6-pins for power. I turned the PC on. It wasn't on fire at idle on the windows desktop, but not even a couple minutes into BF3 and the screen went black, fans went crazy, smoke, fire, etc.



Depending upon where the fire took place and what it damaged piecing together the cause of failure can be monumentally difficult (even for an engineer). So you may not get the answer you want.

There are always two sides of a story does not imply you "purposely" did something. The component could have failed outright (which happens with electronics), there could have been a power surge, there could have been ESD from handling during the cleaning process. All of those things can happen when someone handles an electronic device or uses it.

-Raja
 

silkstone

Weaksauce
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May 26, 2013
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I'm pretty sure any power surge would have effected the PSU first and even if there was a surge on the 12 V line, there would have been more things affected and really shouldn't have caused a fire. ESD could not really cause that kind of damage either.

It looks like a connection somewhere has shorted. As the computer was never water-cooled the only other plausible cause is a component failing on the board. Is it's all burnt to hell, I don't see how you can really say that a component didn't fail. I'm sure your RMA department does not forensically examine this kind of damage as it would simply cost too much compared with an RMA. You RMA department will just take a look and see it is physical damage and deny the RMA.

I've always returned to companies that have given me the benefit of the doubt when RMAing items. The few customers you are catching with fraudulent RMAs (how many products are returned with burn damage?) really can not balance out the loss of profits when you make the wrong call due to over-stringent warranty conditions especially in today's digital world. [H[ has a very large readership and I wouldn't be surprised if this issue has caused tens of thousands of dollars (if not more) to go to your competitors.

An example of as good customer support as I have encountered was with Logitech. I had a $60 mouse that the rubber started to warp and bubble after a few months, they offered to send me a completely new mouse even though I was only wanting a replacement rubber grip. I will only ever buy mice and keyboards from Logitech now as I know they will cover me if their product fails and they will go the extra mile.

Other manufacturers cover the type of damage in the OP because they understand that good customer support is important to their business. If Asus do not value customer support as much as their competitors, why should I ever buy a product from Asus?

I understand that you have to try to view both sides of the story as you are an Asus rep. However, the judgement is simple; other manufacturers do cover this type of damage and Asus do not.
 

maro

Gawd
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Messages
781
I will make a huge assumption here, but if I am right I think I know what caused this. Someone already suggested a small burr or sharp edge on that metal bracket could cut into the PCB and cause a short. If Asus did not use a thin insulator between metal and PCB this is easy to imagine happening, with the possibility of it every time the card is handled, or even with card sagging over time and exerting more pressure on bracket to PCB.
In my opinion, if Asus didnt think to add an insulator between a heavy HSF's metal bracket and PCB, it's a poor design and an accident waiting to happen.

Now, to be honest I would be amazed that there is no insulator or paper spacers there, so I may be way off.

Either way, Asus is looking bad here for not being willing to give the OP benefit of the doubt in a case where there is no clear indication of his wrongdoing. I have always appreciated the efforts of the reps. Asus keeps here at [H] and it was a big reason I chose them for my last motherboard purchase, and was considering them on my next (I have been eyeballing that lil Gryphon for a nice matx build).

OP I wish you luck, I hope Asus comes through and sends you a replacement card... Please keep us updated
 

magoo

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Depending upon where the fire took place and what it damaged piecing together the cause of failure can be monumentally difficult (even for an engineer). So you may not get the answer you want.

There are always two sides of a story does not imply you "purposely" did something. The component could have failed outright (which happens with electronics), there could have been a power surge, there could have been ESD from handling during the cleaning process. All of those things can happen when someone handles an electronic device or uses it.

-Raja

What you are attempting to do here is justify your RMA departments rejection of the replacement.
Attempting to devine out ANY reason to NOT replace the part is a bad move.
Sure, one of many things could have happened here.
BUT, you have an honest customer, doing what any enthusiast would do.......cleaning and maintaining his equipment, which then subsequently fails.
He's not hiding anything.
He's simply looking for replacement of an obvious failed component.

This is poor practice.

Stop with the "could have,might have, maybe, gee whiz," give your customer the benefit of the doubt, send a new part.

The end.

Here's a little story.......

Three weeks ago, one of my PSUs, a Corsair AX 850, stopped working abruptly. One day it worked, the next it didn't.
It was/is 6 months old.
I trouble-shot the problem and it was definitely the PSU.
Went on line, filled out a form.
RMA granted in 60 seconds.
I actually cross-shipped the part.
Had a brand-new not-out-of-the-shrink-wrap AX 860 in two days.

That's how it is supposed to go. Not this goat-rope run around you are currently entangling your customer in.
 

Raja@ASUS

ASUS Community Support
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Messages
2,390
Stop with the "could have,might have, maybe, gee whiz," give your customer the benefit of the doubt, send a new part.


I'm not the one that makes the decisions on the RMAs. This decsions will be made by those that work in the service team, not me.

As for the rest, to me it is all speculation unless we know for sure. If the service guys decide this is not CID (or whatever else) they will replace the card, that's how it usually works.
 
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silkstone

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May 26, 2013
Messages
65
It good of Raja to give his input here and not really his fault the RMA process seems to be pretty flawed. I'm sure he's passed this thread to his PR and RMA department and hopefully we can see a change in policy at some point.

Asus are a BIG company and sell more than just video cards, you would expect them to have better RMA policies in place. It is quite clear that the damage is not in an area that a user is likely to try on modify or cause that kind of damage by misuse.
 

Fifth Horseman

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Messages
455
There are actually always three sides to every story: Yours, Mine, and The Truth.

Yours (well... ASUS's): "Physical Damage is not covered under warranty"

Mine (Derpentine's story): The product spontaneously combusted after cleaning it with compressed air..

The Truth: It does not take an advanced degree in mechanical or electrical engineering to see that the damage was caused by an unintentional short from 12V through the ground on the VRM/Memory/HS retention plate. The question is how did it happen.

I have to side with Derpentine on this one though not because the customer is always right but because of what I can see in the photos (not to mention because of some truths we already know ).

Truth: the 7950 DCUII is a triple-slot cooler equipped video card.
Truth: being a triple-slot cooler, the mechanism is heavier than a standard single or dual-slot cooler.
Truth: the two fans on the video card will cause vibration (whether or not it's felt or heard).
Truth: the cooling/retention plate contacts ground points along the edge of the card.
Truth: no device (i.e. Loc-tite) is used to prevent the retaining screws that hold the retention bracket onto the PCB from working loose.
Truth: it has already been said and determined that early versions of this card had a manufacturing defect where the screws were not properly tightened, causing the card to overheat.
Truth: if the screws for the retention plate towards the PCI-E connector were not properly tightened, because of the design of the plate itself with the help of gravity, the point of contact near where the damage is visible would act like a hinge. No metal burr would be necessary.

asus_hd7950_top_5b.jpg


This particular type of failure would not happen on the 7970 version of the card since it employs a back-plate and through-hole design. The back plate not only helps protect the back of the card but it also would evenly distribute the load placed on the retention plate:

asus-hd7970-dc2-01.jpg


While I am sure it is comforting to Jerry Shen and Jonney Shih that their company is able to hide behind the catch-all phrase of "physical damage is not covered under warranty", in this case cowering behind that statement in an attempt to deny a warranty claim that is valid (perhaps because it is known that there is a design defect in the product and having to repair/replace all effected units would affect the company's financials for the quarter) will hurt the company more in the long run not only in terms of ill will but also financially than the impact a bad quarter would have.

As the owner of a TFT-101 keyboard dock that the battery died in less than three months of careful use and a warranty claim was denied on (and it was later determined that due to an engineering flaw the battery's protection circuit was being tripped because there is no protection mechanism in the dock to prevent deep discharge... a flaw that was fixed in subsequent releases of the transformer line), I can most definitely re-assure ASUS that they are not infallible. Although ASUS strives for "Inspiring Innovation. Persistent Perfection.", part of the cycle of Persistent Perfection is acknowledging mistakes when they arise, learning from them, then putting a plan into place to resolve the problem.

The reality distortion field only worked for Steve Jobs. The corporate equivalent of covering one's ears and shouting 'NO!NO!NO!NO! WE DON'T MAKE MISTAKES!' not only makes one look like a spoiled child that is unwilling to be held accountable for their own actions, but also serves to drive potential customers away too.

In the next six months I will be in the market to purchase a new video card as well as another motherboard. Although I have enjoyed and have purchased many ASUS motherboards in the past (as well as a few ASUS manufactured video cards) and I was planning on purchasing both an ASUS motherboard and video card in the coming months, because of my experience with my own TFT-101 and the way I see that ASUS is treating your video card customer in regards to this simple matter I will be looking elsewhere for my computer hardware needs.



He works for the CLM team at ASUS as he stated. :) I'm not a mod but I figured i might be believed enough to tell you Jeffrey works for us.


There are always two sides of story folks, bear that in mind please before you assume the worst of every situation.
 

nissanztt90

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I'm not the one that makes the decisions on the RMAs. This decsions will be made by those that work in the service team, not me.

As for the rest, to me it is all speculation unless we know for sure. If the service guys decide this is not CID (or whatever else) they will replace the card, that's how it usually works.

Youre digging yourself and ASUS into a deeper hole. Id stop posting if i were you.
 

jbltecnicspro

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I am not the contact for these cases. The first port of call is for the customer to deal with the service team and work out a resolution if possible. If the case over-spills, forward to CL-Jeffrey or ROG forums which the CLM team cover.

-Raja

Thanks for clearing this up. Only reason I sent you a PM was because he had already contacted the service team, at which they denied it. I know the Galaxy rep responds to PM's directly, but I wasn't sure of ASUS's protocols (obviously, different companies will handle cases differently). Thanks!
 

magoo

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Messages
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I'm not the one that makes the decisions on the RMAs. This decsions will be made by those that work in the service team, not me.

As for the rest, to me it is all speculation unless we know for sure. If the service guys decide this is not CID (or whatever else) they will replace the card, that's how it usually works.

Noted............

So COULD you do something for this guy if you wanted to? That's the question.
That would be stepping up.
But everyone wants to make it someone else's decision or problem.

Fifth Horseman hit a home run with his post.

Problem solved.

Give the guy a new card.
 

Fifth Horseman

Limp Gawd
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Messages
455
One minor correction to my earlier post:

On the pic I linked of the back of the 7950 DCUII there actually is loc-tite on the top-most screws (the blue stuff on the two screws holding the attachment plate at the top of the card). What I meant by there was no loc-tite was in reference to the pics I saw of the burned card. I didn't see what appears to be any loc-tite on the screws on the card but there is a possibility there is some and it's just not visible in the photo. So on those grounds it's not fair to say that it's true that they didn't use loc-tite on the card while assembling it and I have to retract that point from my original post.

All the same, it is documented that the early batch of cards had problems with the screws not being properly tightened. Unless the card was physically dropped on it's side, I can't see any other way the mounting point for the retention bracket not only managed to dig through the conformal coating but also through a layer or two of the PCB itself other than it happening over a period of time. I don't have the card in front of me so I can't say for sure, but I cannot see any physical damage that could account for the shorting.

I've been working with, building, and servicing computers for close to 25 years now and I've seen my fair share of damaged equipment (either parts that have caught fire due to faulty components... an old Trident video card that had a filtering capacitor catch fire comes to mind on that one. :D), parts that were improperly assembled from the factory (my old Commodore Amiga 1200 developed an audio problem after several years of use that was attributed to a capacitor being soldered on backwards from the factory. Nowadays it's a known issue. Back then it wasn't), parts that have been dropped and/or improperly installed and the customer tried to get a warranty replacement on it, outright bad components (anybody else remember capacitor-gate or "Camino-gate"?), etc. I've seen ESD damaged equipment too and there's no way that damage could have been caused by that. I'm not trying to sound like a know-it-all, and I most certainly am not going to claim to be an expert on anything, but I've been around the block enough times that I've racked up some serious frequent flyer miles.

In this case I feel ASUS should create a new code in their service database: "PHYSICAL DAMAGE DUE TO ELECTRICAL/MECHANICAL DEFECT" and replace this gentleman's card. These days I do not do retail work, but if I did and I had sold him this card and he brought the system & card in for in-warranty repair and I saw that damage, I would replace it no questions asked. To my aging eyes it has all the hallmarks of a defective card.
 
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ccityinstaller

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
4,241
I am not the contact for these cases. The first port of call is for the customer to deal with the service team and work out a resolution if possible. If the case over-spills, forward to CL-Jeffrey or ROG forums which the CLM team cover.

-Raja

Whether you are the "contact" for these cases or not, it is quite clear that YOUR employer has severely dropped the ball here, and this is FAR from the first time, as you can see by the many other members chiming in above..

If it were me, since this HAS been brought to your attention multiple times, I would do everything I could to salvage YOUR employer's reputation, even if it means a little extra work on your end such as a simple email to the right department urging them to issue this man a BRAND NEW REPLACEMENT AND FULL APOLOGY FOR ACCUSING HIM OF NEGLIGENCE WHEN HE DID NOTHING WRONG:mad::mad::mad::mad:

NINJA EDIT: I have no idea wtf the FF was thinking..when I quoted this reply, it was the last post, but clearly something went wonky..Still, I feel my thoughts on the matter are clearly shared by many, as I mentioned.
 

bigmac11

Limp Gawd
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Messages
221
One minor correction to my earlier post:

On the pic I linked of the back of the 7950 DCUII there actually is loc-tite on the top-most screws (the blue stuff on the two screws holding the attachment plate at the top of the card). What I meant by there was no loc-tite was in reference to the pics I saw of the burned card. I didn't see what appears to be any loc-tite on the screws on the card but there is a possibility there is some and it's just not visible in the photo. So on those grounds it's not fair to say that it's true that they didn't use loc-tite on the card while assembling it and I have to retract that point from my original post.

All the same, it is documented that the early batch of cards had problems with the screws not being properly tightened. Unless the card was physically dropped on it's side, I can't see any other way the mounting point for the retention bracket not only managed to dig through the conformal coating but also through a layer or two of the PCB itself other than it happening over a period of time. I don't have the card in front of me so I can't say for sure, but I cannot see any physical damage that could account for the shorting.

I've been working with, building, and servicing computers for close to 25 years now and I've seen my fair share of damaged equipment (either parts that have caught fire due to faulty components... an old Trident video card that had a filtering capacitor catch fire comes to mind on that one. :D), parts that were improperly assembled from the factory (my old Commodore Amiga 1200 developed an audio problem after several years of use that was attributed to a capacitor being soldered on backwards from the factory. Nowadays it's a known issue. Back then it wasn't), parts that have been dropped and/or improperly installed and the customer tried to get a warranty replacement on it, outright bad components (anybody else remember capacitor-gate or "Camino-gate"?), etc. I've seen ESD damaged equipment too and there's no way that damage could have been caused by that. I'm not trying to sound like a know-it-all, and I most certainly am not going to claim to be an expert on anything, but I've been around the block enough times that I've racked up some serious frequent flyer miles.

In this case I feel ASUS should create a new code in their service database: "PHYSICAL DAMAGE DUE TO ELECTRICAL/MECHANICAL DEFECT" and replace this gentleman's card. These days I do not do retail work, but if I did and I had sold him this card and he brought the system & card in for in-warranty repair and I saw that damage, I would replace it no questions asked. To my aging eyes it has all the hallmarks of a defective card.

Bravo
 
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All I have to say is just... good luck with getting anything out of them.

I have a G73JH laptop. Bought in March 2011, around September, the keyboard went bad in the laptop, to where it was typing multiple different letters (hitting O would also trigger P and I). ASUS refused to do much about it unless I sent the entire laptop into them, which I was quoted 4-6 weeks RMA service. I tried in vain to just have the keyboard sent to me, as it's a very easy to change part. Absolutely refused. I couldn't be without the laptop for 4-6 weeks, so I ended up ordering a replacement keyboard from their parts store and installing it, which cleared the issue up. I was immensely disappointed in their attitude in trying to resolve my problem and because of that, I will probably not ever buy another one of their products.

I think the only other issue I have had with the laptop is when it is at the log-in screen, sometimes coming off of sleep, when you type in the letter P in the password box it will register it as hitting Start + P. Which makes no sense. Once you enter the password it is perfectly fine. I have been using the on-screen keyboard to get around this. I am chalking this up to the keyboard filter drivers. :/
 

jojo69

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There are actually always three sides to every story: Yours, Mine, and The Truth.



While I am sure it is comforting to Jerry Shen and Jonney Shih that their company is able to hide behind the catch-all phrase of "physical damage is not covered under warranty", in this case cowering behind that statement in an attempt to deny a warranty claim that is valid (perhaps because it is known that there is a design defect in the product and having to repair/replace all effected units would affect the company's financials for the quarter) will hurt the company more in the long run not only in terms of ill will but also financially than the impact a bad quarter would have.

this has "beginning of the end" written all over it

if this shit is not resolved pronto I am editing my sig, I have given you folks quite enough rope
 

Cmustang87

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this has "beginning of the end" written all over it

if this shit is not resolved pronto I am editing my sig, I have given you folks quite enough rope

Yep, I have helped plenty of people with consultations on what parts to buy for their a computer. I've done 2 since this post started.

I did not recommend 1 piece of Asus equipment.
 

Fifth Horseman

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Messages
455
this has "beginning of the end" written all over it

This is closer to the truth than you realize. Hell, not even Apple is this bad. Even they replaced my ipod touch after their firmware updater borked the bluetooth/wifi radio in it (it was a known issue and I could prove to the pimply faced pecker head at my local Apple store that Apple knew about it through their own tech docs too!).

Speaking about stubborn companies that are more interested in protecting their bottom line and following their own rules to the letter rather than doing the right thing, here's a story for all of ya. Back in the day when CRT's were still commonplace, the company I work for used to have a very large fleet of Sony 24" FW900 monitors. As monitors are apt to do we had some that went bad over time, but those that died had done so within their three year warranty period. You'd think it'd be an easy thing to get warranty service on them though, right?

Long story short; Sony was refusing to do any warranty claims unless we could provide them with dated receipts that clearly showed the serial number of the units on them. The problem we had at the time is that it wasn't that we couldn't prove that we owned the monitors; it's that back then we were getting equipment in by the pallet full from our vendor, and the receipts we had access to didn't have the serial numbers of the equipment on them. Nowadays it's a completely different story in that everything is itemized down to the serial number, cross-referenced, scanned and put into document storage and asset tracking, but back then that didn't happen.

Anyways, no matter who I talked to at Sony, they wouldn't budge. They supposedly needed the receipt to prove that the monitor was still under warranty, even though if you turned the monitor around and looked at the date of manufacture you could plainly see when the thing came into existence in this world. After about a month of verbal wrestling with them my manager got involved.

It got really ugly after that. The morons started stonewalling him too! After a while of going back and forth he basically told them that he was going to place them on our "Do No Buy" list and get our legal department involved for the warranty repairs, and they could try to explain to our legal team how their policy trumps state and federal laws. He wasn't bluffing either. I work for a very large company that has it's own team of lawyers on staff.

Miraculously they changed their stance after that. :D

My manager kept his word too. The whole experience left such a sour taste in our mouths that to this day, unless it's some specialized piece of equipment that nobody else makes or was purchased before all that happened, you won't find a single piece of Sony equipment anywhere in the facility I work at. They're also not even considered at all when we do equipment evals either anymore.

On a personal level, the pricks at Sony pissed me off badly with not only that experience but also with them accusing me of lying about my zip code when I tried to order a spare battery for my long since retired DSC-F717. Now, I know my zip code fairly well and somehow their system changed the zip code after my order was placed. It shipped to the right street address but to a town not even close to being correct. The representative "appreciated" that I thought I entered it in right but wouldn't do jack squat to fix their error. To this day I haven't bought anything with the Sony brand on it. The last Playstation I ever bought or played with was the original Playstation! I don't care if the next Playstation prints money; I won't touch it based on the bad customer service experiences I had in the past with them (not to mention some of the shoddy products I had that had their names on it).

Now I'm not going to lie and say I make the decisions about what equipment we do and do not buy where I work, but it's not a stretch to say that I do have some influence. I'm "that guy" that people go to when they're looking to buy something and want recommendations or my opinion. My manager, as well as the people who work here do listen to me about product recommendations.

Anybody want to take a wild guess what other company with four letters in it's name I won't be recommending to my manager or anyone else where I work? :)
 

Paradoxex

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Beginning of the end? Please....

It's understandable to want to believe a story you can't verify. It's human to want someone's story to have a happy ending.

It isn't proper to hound the company reps kind enough to post on the site. All the mob mentality response is doing is discouraging future such interaction between companies and consumers.

The process is ongoing...perhaps we should let it play out.
 

Dan

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you guys are vicious. I started this fight, contacted proper people, others have helped too. there's nothing we can do past what already has been done. If this doesn't get resolved im sure another company will gladly take my ~6k/year in products. let their sales drop to the point that they have to change. lets just wait for Derp to get back to us and hopefully all is well.

edit: and you guys attacking the Asus Reps is beyond childish and immature. They are here to help point in the right direction. It's not like they are paying for the card out of their pocket. They are the same as all of us. it's not up to them on if he gets a new card.
 

nissanztt90

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Beginning of the end? Please....

It's understandable to want to believe a story you can't verify. It's human to want someone's story to have a happy ending.

It isn't proper to hound the company reps kind enough to post on the site. All the mob mentality response is doing is discouraging future such interaction between companies and consumers.

The process is ongoing...perhaps we should let it play out.

Thats the problem...that its still ongoing. OP should have had a new card in his hands weeks ago. OP provided ample proof of what happened, this is a pretty clear case of Asus hiding behind "we dont warranty physical damage".

you guys are vicious. I started this fight, contacted proper people, others have helped too. there's nothing we can do past what already has been done. If this doesn't get resolved im sure another company will gladly take my ~6k/year in products. let their sales drop to the point that they have to change. lets just wait for Derp to get back to us and hopefully all is well.

edit: and you guys attacking the Asus Reps is beyond childish and immature. They are here to help point in the right direction. It's not like they are paying for the card out of their pocket. They are the same as all of us. it's not up to them on if he gets a new card.

The same reps that showed up 6 weeks late and tried to insinuate the OP was at fault while hiding behind "its not my call"?

Fuck Asus they are on my do not buy list even if they do make good on this and ive bought plenty of Asus stuff over the years.
 

Sheppard

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I'm on the other side of the fence, evga has lost my business and I only buy asus now due to Evga's terrible handling of their x79 debacle
 

Fifth Horseman

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455
you guys are vicious. I started this fight, contacted proper people, others have helped too. there's nothing we can do past what already has been done. If this doesn't get resolved im sure another company will gladly take my ~6k/year in products. let their sales drop to the point that they have to change. lets just wait for Derp to get back to us and hopefully all is well.

edit: and you guys attacking the Asus Reps is beyond childish and immature. They are here to help point in the right direction. It's not like they are paying for the card out of their pocket. They are the same as all of us. it's not up to them on if he gets a new card.

Vicious? I'm not vicious. I just have a low threshold for b.s. ;) I'll freely admit that I can be brutal at times though; especially if it's a person or company that's actively screwing me over. In those cases I make them my hobby.

You don't wanna be my hobby. :D

My particular comments have been leveled towards ASUS, not the reps. Make no mistake though that the reps are probably copy+pasting these comments to their superiors and they're making note of it.

In this particular case even though it's not my card that got fried I'm being vocal about it because I had another company pull something similar to what ASSUS is doing to the OP. Two years ago I bought an Apevia mini-ITX case that came with one of their power supplies. Biggest mistake of my life. The PSU blew up (literally!) taking out the motherboard, CPU, SSD, CPU fan, and the dual-port Intel NIC I had in the system (I was building a firewall system).

You know what Apevia told me? They don't warranty physical damage, and it was up to me to prove that it wasn't something else that took out the PSU (and not the other way around). Even if I could prove that the PSU caused the damage to everything else in the system my only recourse was a new PSU.


Niiiiice.....


There's more to the story, but in the end I just gave up and was out almost $400 in components. I was beyond livid. In hindsight it's a good thing I don't live in California. I would have driven over to their offices with the case and a TIG welder and welded the doors of their office closed with the case. :D
 

tonyftw

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1,817
I'm on the other side of the fence, evga has lost my business and I only buy asus now due to Evga's terrible handling of their x79 debacle

I'm not sure what evga and their motherboards have to do with this thread, but I'll carry on. Everything will be lovely with asus, as long as your product never fails on you. If it does, be prepared to deal with hell :D.
 

Chris_B

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 29, 2001
Messages
5,289
Asus in my experience will go to any means possible to avoid replacing something. I had an asus maximus formula a few years back and the ram slots were intermittent on it,you had to uninstall and reinstall the memory numerous times to get it to work (ram was fine and I ended up trying a few different set with it). Started to occur about 8 months into owning it, I checked online and seen quite a few posts relating to similar issues.

It was sent back to the retailer who sent it back to Asus for evaluation, it ended up being returned, apparently they found a couple of small marks on the board and deemed it physical damage causing the issue, despite the fact there were loads of posts online with people having the same problem. :rolleyes: They literally do go over these things with a fine toothcomb, and if they can find and tiny marks or scratches they'll put a small sticker beside it with an arrow pointing to the area and basically print something off saying physical damage and send it back to you.
 

nightfly

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
3,505
I've been monitoring this thread since day one, to see how things progressed. I'm not seeing anything that would make me ever want to buy an ASUS product, and right now I'm looking for a new router, and had previously considered their black diamond series. No longer; it seems like buying ASUS is no better than buying a no name piece of equipment off of ebay, because you're not going to get any help from ASUS if something isn't right.

And I'm pretty sure the heatsink is a component of the video card, and it failed quite drastically, :\
It doesn't appear that the heat sink cools that section of the electronics. Perhaps passive airflow from the fans might contribute to cooling, but that doesn't cool the back of the card.
Also, I notice that they haven't fixed the heat sink cooling itself; only three of the five heat pipes contact the GPU. So 40% of the cooling isn't really doing anything. That's been known for several years, yet they haven't done anything to fix that; makes you wonder about the rest of their design team's attention to detail.


Sadly, this seems to be the state of affairs at nearly all corporations today in this difficult economy; NO CUSTOMER SERVICE, LET THE BUYER BEWARE. What the bean counters forget, is that word of mouth is the best, and worst, advertising. Especially in this case, where nearly all of the people on this type of forum are relied on as the resident computer expert among our friends and family. What I quickly noticed when looking at the pictures of the cards that caught on fire was that the burns did not start near the processor, so they were not likely to get the maximum benefit from the cooling system. More likely, some capacitor was already running very hot and ignited a tiny piece of dust, accelerating the burn, one reason all my case fans blow IN and have fine particle dust filters on them. I look forward to the day where cases are cooled the same way auto intakes are directed through fine air filters so that no large particles can get into the combustion chambers to cause damage.
As a manager, what confuses me is that I would think ASUS would cover the failed parts, knowing that it's such a small part of the customer service end of the company, and that it would insure that the customer will return to buy more products (being sure of having a reliable company to depend on), rather than just screw him, basically insuring that neither he nor anyone he knows will never buy their products again. The price mark up on high end electronics basically means it will cost them very little to resolve this, especially since it's last year's product. Even Amazon was letting this line of product go for under $200 last week, which tells you the mark up on this stuff. Basically, they would have lost nothing, only not made quite as much money on a few cards as they might expect to (if the cards were perfect, which apparently, this line of video cards WAS CLEARLY NOT).

This thread now makes me turn my PC off @ night, you never know.
Me too. I used to think that well, lots of computer rooms run 24/7, but those places are nearly always either 1. manned by an actual human being, or 2. in a place where if there's a fire, no one in the general vicinity will die and there's usually some type of fire control system (sprinklers) in place to keep the whole building from going up in flames. Despite sprinkler systems being relatively cheap when incorporated into new housing, it's unheard of to see anyone putting them in private residences, I guess because of the 'it'll never happen to me' attitude most people have.

Asus makes some fantastic products that are held back by piss poor customer support.
We have to remember that big companies really don't care about the welfare of their customers. They exist to make a profit. While the top guy might have some tiny feelings about what people think of his company, the minions who manage the place are rated by the company by how much profit they help the company to get; customer service reps get viewed by the opposite, how much money they can deny paying back to customers. As customers, we have to stick to it until we get to a person who realizes we're not going to quit until they fix the problem. While the customer may not always be technically right, if you screw him he will never be a customer for you ever again. One good faith replacement may mean thousands of dollars of sales over the future, if the company wants to HAVE a future. Telling your customers basically 'you're screwed' even in polite speech is simply bad business.

The whole experience left such a sour taste in our mouths that to this day, unless it's some specialized piece of equipment that nobody else makes or was purchased before all that happened, you won't find a single piece of Sony equipment anywhere in the facility I work at. They're also not even considered at all when we do equipment evals either anymore.)
This is what they so quickly forget. It's not about the current product. It's about the company's reputation in the marketplace. I, too had problems with Sony, now 30 years ago. I still won't buy anything made by them. Sure, they will never notice the I am not buying their products, but it makes you wonder how many other people stopped buying their products because of terrible treatment at the hands of their customer dis-service reps. In the sixties, I had a 9" sony tv that was great. So I purchased a sony stereo, and that's when the fun began. After a few months of no help, I junked it and haven't purchased a sony product since. Now, up to that point I had a stellar opinion of Sony, and would have bought lots of their products. So they've lost what, maybe $20,000 worth of sales to me? Sure, to a multi billion company, that's nothing. But multiply it by every customer you don't help? My initial problem stereo component would probably have cost them maybe $100 to replace. Instead they lost $20,000 in potential sales to me, and AFAIK, none of my family or friends have ever purchased anything by Sony since, not even a playstation.

Asus, wake up and pay attention. Initial sales are one thing; supporting your products after the sale is what makes repeat customers. A quick replacement of a failed component means good will in the marketplace; if you keep screwing your customers, eventually you'll have no customers. It will take a while, but it WILL happen. So, ASUS CEO, what do you want your legacy to be? 'He was the first to increase profits by drastically cutting customer support, enabling many stockholders to profit and managers to record huge bonuses. As time went on, sales plummeted, and the company was sold for pennies on the dollar; as the management also raided the pension plans of the employees to support the bottom line, all the previous employees have no retirement income". Sounds like things to come. Potentially a long way into the future, but that's what happens when you make it a habit of not taking care of your customers.
 

iRevert

Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
640
Youre digging yourself and ASUS into a deeper hole. Id stop posting if i were you.

I've been watching this and I just want to chime in on something.

You (nissanztt90) and a few others need to cool down, having been on the other side (as a PR rep) you have basically no power when it comes down to things and are on the short end of the totem pole.

He's doing what he can, attempting to explain what he can, and taking time to do so where at any point he could just go "Fuck it, it's your problem not mine" and not answer. You're so quick to jump on him for actually taking the time to post in a thread where someone is trying to get an answer from a company, but if he hadn't posted or said a single thing your animosity would have been 10x more because "Fuck them for not answering this guy".

Trust me when I say this from working in the CS/PR area: The people who have bad experience will yell and scream and pound on the table and this is all you will hear, the guy who had a good experience and quietly says "Yeah they helped me, I'd buy from them again" is drowned out in cries of the person with the bad experience.

PR reps don't have that much power in resolving things, what they can resolve they have to go through usually a mile of shit (bosses and higher ups) to get the OK to do so or they've been around the company long enough that they have a little bit of pull and can make something happen without repercussion. Just because someone gives you an answer that you don't like doesn't mean they don't want to help, the vast majority of the time it's because they are posting what they've been told to say but in a nicer tone and attempting to add a personal touch.

All this being said I agree that a replacement should be had and people like Fifth Horseman bring something to the table with the logic and graphic examples, but to just go and make a post like you did really just reinforces to the Rep that even if he tries to help people are just going to be rude and he can just as easily copypasta the support URL and nothing else.
 

nissanztt90

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Messages
3,858
I've been watching this and I just want to chime in on something.

You (nissanztt90) and a few others need to cool down, having been on the other side (as a PR rep) you have basically no power when it comes down to things and are on the short end of the totem pole.

He's doing what he can, attempting to explain what he can, and taking time to do so where at any point he could just go "Fuck it, it's your problem not mine" and not answer. You're so quick to jump on him for actually taking the time to post in a thread where someone is trying to get an answer from a company, but if he hadn't posted or said a single thing your animosity would have been 10x more because "Fuck them for not answering this guy".

Trust me when I say this from working in the CS/PR area: The people who have bad experience will yell and scream and pound on the table and this is all you will hear, the guy who had a good experience and quietly says "Yeah they helped me, I'd buy from them again" is drowned out in cries of the person with the bad experience.

PR reps don't have that much power in resolving things, what they can resolve they have to go through usually a mile of shit (bosses and higher ups) to get the OK to do so or they've been around the company long enough that they have a little bit of pull and can make something happen without repercussion. Just because someone gives you an answer that you don't like doesn't mean they don't want to help, the vast majority of the time it's because they are posting what they've been told to say but in a nicer tone and attempting to add a personal touch.

All this being said I agree that a replacement should be had and people like Fifth Horseman bring something to the table with the logic and graphic examples, but to just go and make a post like you did really just reinforces to the Rep that even if he tries to help people are just going to be rude and he can just as easily copypasta the support URL and nothing else.

:rolleyes: Not that im even remotely heated over this but ive seen reps from other companies step in on this forum numerous times and get the issue resolved FAST and to the customers satisfaction. Raja joined the party weeks late and thus far has done jack shit besides imply it was the customers fault, and claim he cant do anything. At least he took my advice and has kept his mouth shut. Also i worked in retail for almost a decade, you dont need to school me on customer service...its pretty simple...make customers happy. Like you said...you only hear the bad. If your a PR/CS rep with half a brain, your job is to minimize the bad getting to the public.
 

Fifth Horseman

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 5, 2000
Messages
455
Beginning of the end? Please....

It's understandable to want to believe a story you can't verify. It's human to want someone's story to have a happy ending.

It isn't proper to hound the company reps kind enough to post on the site. All the mob mentality response is doing is discouraging future such interaction between companies and consumers.

The process is ongoing...perhaps we should let it play out.

I think he mostly meant it as hyperbole. From me personally though this incident isn't the "final straw"; it's more like one more reason I keep reading about beyond my own experience why I should avoid Asus until they get their act together. It's sad really though. I've had quite a few Asus motherboards over the years (P2B, P3B, A7N8X-DLX, just to name three). They've all been great boards and (thankfully) I never had to send a board in for repair. My opinion started to change when I had a problem with my tablet... then I started hearing about the tech support horror stories. I'm a fairly avid reader of The Consumerist and some of the articles there about Asus are enlightening to say the least. :D

Here's one from 2008 that kinda explains the whole situation that's going on in this thread:

http://consumerist.com/2008/07/16/10-secrets-to-getting-better-tech-support-from-asus/

Some horror stories:
http://consumerist.com/2013/06/17/after-3-months-asus-cant-send-me-a-working-motherboard/
http://consumerist.com/2012/09/04/theres-no-good-reason-why-asus-would-steal-my-broken-power-cable/
http://consumerist.com/2012/08/27/asus-repair-has-your-computer-wont-answer-the-phone/
http://consumerist.com/2012/08/09/a...e-for-over-a-month-keeps-changing-reason-why/
http://consumerist.com/2012/06/25/caught-between-newegg-and-asus-with-a-defective-tablet/
http://consumerist.com/2012/05/15/i-think-maybe-i-used-to-own-an-asus-laptop/
http://consumerist.com/2012/05/10/7-rmas-later-asus-still-wont-replace-my-tablet/
http://consumerist.com/2012/04/26/asus-your-tablet-is-totally-supposed-to-draw-jagged-lines/
http://consumerist.com/2011/11/30/i...-drive-backwards-your-computer-cant-overheat/
http://consumerist.com/2011/11/09/asus-blames-you-when-bios-update-bricks-your-computer/
http://consumerist.com/2011/02/25/s...-guess-youll-just-have-to-buy-a-new-computer/
http://consumerist.com/2010/11/10/asus-i-just-want-my-computer-back-from-warranty-repair-hell/

http://consumerist.com/2012/06/04/not-everyone-is-amused-by-asus-ogling-of-booth-models-butt/ (ok I thought this one was funny :D ).

Yeah I get it that Asus is another corporation that's in it for the money (derrr. :D). I work for corporate America myself and I can tell they're no different than any other company out there (not that that's necessarily a bad thing). Reading the first link I put above and seeing how they're handing some of the stuff that goes on though, it sounds like their corporate structure has been infiltrated by idiots with Six Sigma black belts. :/

I'd love to get my hands on the cretins at Motorola who came up with Six Sigma and beat them even more senseless than what they already are. :D


Aaaaannnyways. :D
 

vjcsmoke

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
4,511
Wow glad I went with the MSI GTX 770 instead of the Asus CUII 770 after reading this horror story!!
 

magoo

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
14,500
you guys are vicious. I started this fight, contacted proper people, others have helped too. there's nothing we can do past what already has been done. If this doesn't get resolved im sure another company will gladly take my ~6k/year in products. let their sales drop to the point that they have to change. lets just wait for Derp to get back to us and hopefully all is well.

edit: and you guys attacking the Asus Reps is beyond childish and immature. They are here to help point in the right direction. It's not like they are paying for the card out of their pocket. They are the same as all of us. it's not up to them on if he gets a new card.

Come on............

You didn't START anything.

The guy posted his gripe about the card and the rest of us, you included jumped in.

Don't try and look like the Lone Ranger.

Maybe we are piling on a bit, but the simple fact of the matter is that ASUS has been pulling this kind of shit for a long time, and doesn't look to be backing down or changing their attitude towards their best retail customers.

The reps that come in here CAN make a difference if they choose to....how? Simple.....call or email their counter-part in service or repair and get a face on the problem.
This Raja guy is in Taiwan, the repair place is in Indiana or California.
How hard is it to get in contact with your counterpart and get this guy's problem fixed?
Or at least get him a proper answer. Not pass the buck.

My prime example is RedBeard from Corsair. That guy fixes problems. Dave at Galaxy is the same way.......which is why Galaxy has become my new vendor of choice for GPU hardware. These companies have responsive people who give a shit about their customers.

If Corsair just sold motherboards and GPUs........damn, that would be a game changer.:D
 

tonyftw

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
1,817
If Corsair just sold motherboards and GPUs........damn, that would be a game changer.:D
One can only hope.

Corsair, now that's a company that never fails to impress with customer service.
 

jbltecnicspro

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Messages
8,079
Honestly, what pisses me off about this (and I don't get mad too easily) is that the ASUS RMA email actually stated that they don't know what caused the fire. So the customer's guilty until proven innocent. I think what happened to the OP is that he got bullet-point #9 in Fifth Horseman's first link here:

http://consumerist.com/2008/07/16/10-secrets-to-getting-better-tech-support-from-asus/

ASUS, if you're reading this, you need to get off of that high horse NOW. In all seriousness, if the OP hadn't been there to turn the PC off, a house fire could have started and there could be injuries or even deaths on your hands. The first way to reconciliation is to come out and admit the truth. We already know the first revision of the cards were pulled for a defect, and Fifth Horseman did a really good explaining the problem. Stop trying to "save face" by denying any known defects and start owning up to human error. The quicker you come forth and actually repent of any wrong doings or mistakes, the quicker we can forgive you and rebuild trust in your brand.

To the PR reps - sorry you gotta deal with the backlash. It comes with the territory of representing any company. To others - don't be too quick to judge the reps. We don't know what kinds of rules are tying their hands behind their backs. Let's not do to them the same thing that ASUS is doing to the OP (assuming guilty until proven innocent).
 

Kor

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
2,175

Dude clam down and leave the guy alone, Raja has been plenty helpful in the past and there's no reason to go flying off the handle like that. I'm glad that there is at least some community rep presence on here and not just from Asus.
 
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Elios

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Messages
7,286
Dude clam down and leave the guy alone, Raja has been plenty helpful in the past and there's no reason to go flying off the handle like that. I'm glad that there is at least some community rep presence on here and not just from Asus.

whats the point if he cant do any thing?
he should just leave
Corsairs reps get shit done
ASUS just blames the end user and accuses the OP of damaging the card to get a new one
 

csshih

Gawd
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
554
The maturity level in this thread is brilliant.

Everyone is bandwagoning pretty horribly.
 
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