Asrock is trying out add-in cards to upgrade your motherboard chipset and features

[Delicieuxz]

ASRock developed an AMD X670 expansion card, but you can’t buy it (yet)
ASRock reveals expansion card that can turn a B650 motherboard into an X670 one

The board offers two PCIe x4 NVME M.2 slots, three USB Type-A, one USB Type-C 10Gbit, two SATA connectors and what probably the best feature, a 10 Gbit Ethernet (the motherboard offers 2.5 Gbit without the card).

YouTuber Level1Techs (via VideoCardz) received a review sample of the B650 LiveMixer motherboard that included an add-in card that promises to turn this motherboard into something equivalent to an X670 one. The X670 Xpansion kit comes with an additional motherboard chipset. When used alongside the ASRock LiveMixer board, it expands its capabilities to match those of an X670 board.

I saw some of you discussing in a thread how you wish motherboards were more modular these days. Well, this is going in that direction.

My Asus AM5 motherboard has 2.5G ethernet and a header for Thunderbolt 4 (but it doesn't need a chipset upgrade). I have only one free PCIe slot, and don't want to have to choose between a TB4 or 10G expansion card. If a card is made that offers TB4 and 10G ethernet, that would be perfect for me.

 

[TheSlySyl]

I love this. I would 100% buy this kind of add in card in the future.

 

[Fresch]

The old daughter cards; again.

 

[Rev. Night]

some people may love this, others less so.

Still wont make a pci4 mobo into a pci5 one

 

[Zepher]

That is a pretty cool feature.
on another note, the video annoys me with the crossfades on most of the b-roll. Does he do that a lot in his videos?

 

[GoodBoy]

I think 486dx or maybe it was Pentium cpu upgrades could be done like this too. I think the 486 one wasn't even mobo specific (but who knows).

 

[sk3tch]

I'm not a fan of these add-on cards. I have one for add'l NVMe for my X670E Gene (due to it's form factor it can only have one on board). I went with 4TB single SSD rather than deal with a monstronsity sticking out of my mobo adding who-knows-what kind of latency. I've been doing so much ripping and replacing it's easier to just get the actual component I need rather than Voltron crap on top of things.

However, I could see this really popular for the pre-built, almost-ready-to-build-their-own-computer crowd. 30 years ago that was me and I would have loved to have this option. So whatever floats people's boats! It's not for people like us, anyway.

 

[Rev. Night]

I think 486dx or maybe it was Pentium cpu upgrades could be done like this too. I think the 486 one wasn't even mobo specific (but who knows).

yeah back in the day you had a cpu that you could put on top of your cpu.

cue the xzibit meme

 

[CVNet1]

I do think what Asrock is doing is awesome as a concept, and I hope it is designed well enough that implementation is painless to the end user.


Regarding the lack of free / useable pcie expansion slots for am5 motherboards, I had the same problem when determining a parts list for my new build. The only board I found that had everything I wanted was the $1000 Asus AM5 board, but I wasn't about to spend 1k on a motherboard.


I ended up deciding pcie 5.0 for expansion slots wasn't critical for me. Instead I got the Asus ProArt b650 Creator for ~$250. Added the ThunderboltEX 4 card (+150) and still have a pcie 4.0 x1 slot. Also, I can bifurcate the graphics card to 8x8 and have an additional x16 slot (@ x8 speed).

I intentionally did not populate the pcie 5.0 m.2 (@ x4 speed) slot, so in theory I could use an adapter there for another 4 pcie lanes direct to cpu. So I easily have 2x pcie expansion slots and a 3rd if I really need a pcie 5.0 x4 slot.

 

[jlbenedict]

I don't see the purpose really... seems gimmicky here in 2023.

If I need more NVME slots.. i could just get a PCIe to NVME adapter.. for really low cost...

But.. all of these capabilities, on a board, shoved in a PCIe x4 slot... and then if you load the expansion board to the tilt... how is that going to perform...

If this board is low cost, it might get a few buyers... but other than that... just get the X670 board to begin with

Maybe my coffee hasn't kicked in yet, and I am not seeing the overall picture

 

[Axman]

I fucking love ASRock. They're just a fun, friendly company.

 

[sc5mu93]

I fucking love ASRock. They're just a fun, friendly company.

except for the deceptive marketing on their budget boards, and substandard power delivery and cooling..

 

[Zepher]

I do think what Asrock is doing is awesome as a concept, and I hope it is designed well enough that implementation is painless to the end user.


Regarding the lack of free / useable pcie expansion slots for am5 motherboards, I had the same problem when determining a parts list for my new build. The only board I found that had everything I wanted was the $1000 Asus AM5 board, but I wasn't about to spend 1k on a motherboard.


I ended up deciding pcie 5.0 for expansion slots wasn't critical for me. Instead I got the Asus ProArt b650 Creator for ~$250. Added the ThunderboltEX 4 card (+150) and still have a pcie 4.0 x1 slot. Also, I can bifurcate the graphics card to 8x8 and have an additional x16 slot (@ x8 speed).

I intentionally did not populate the pcie 5.0 m.2 (@ x4 speed) slot, so in theory I could use an adapter there for another 4 pcie lanes direct to cpu. So I easily have 2x pcie expansion slots and a 3rd if I really need a pcie 5.0 x4 slot.

Did they remove TB4 from the new Pro Art's? I know the X570 and B550 had it onboard,

 

[sk3tch]

except for the deceptive marketing on their budget boards, and substandard power delivery and cooling..

Fake news

Alright I did my own research there - https://www.techspot.com/review/2424-asrock-motherboard-fail/.

I would say they are no worse than other mobo manufacturers. Everyone has a turd or two.

Did they remove TB4 from the new Pro Art's? I know the X570 and B550 had it onboard,
View attachment 544287

Pro Art is ASUS.
https://www.asus.com/us/proart/

 

[TheSlySyl]

I don't see the purpose really... seems gimmicky here in 2023.

If I need more NVME slots.. i could just get a PCIe to NVME adapter.. for really low cost...

But.. all of these capabilities, on a board, shoved in a PCIe x4 slot... and then if you load the expansion board to the tilt... how is that going to perform...

If this board is low cost, it might get a few buyers... but other than that... just get the X670 board to begin with

Maybe my coffee hasn't kicked in yet, and I am not seeing the overall picture

Cause sometimes you need more PCI-E lanes than the board has to begin with. My X570 has 24 PCI-E lanes and I'm using 100% of all 24 lanes. My GPU is even only running at 8x because of it. (GPU @ 8 Lanes, 4x NVME at 4 Lanes each)

I would LOVE to be able to add in some more NVME drives, a 10GB ethernet and more SATA cables into my current system, but, at the moment, because i'm using every single available PCI-E lane, I can't do that. My networking is actually being achieved by a USB 3.2 -> 2.5gb adapter, and this would also give me another fast usb port back!

Yes, I'm aware that this isn't gonna work on my current X570 motherboard, but PCI-E lanes is a main reason that I'd be upgrading to a new MOBO/system to begin with.

 

[jlbenedict]

Cause sometimes you need more PCI-E lanes than the board has to begin with. My X570 has 24 PCI-E lanes and I'm using 100% of all 24 lanes. My GPU is even only running at 8x because of it. (GPU @ 8 Lanes, 4x NVME at 4 Lanes each)

I would LOVE to be able to add in some more NVME drives, a 10GB ethernet and more SATA cables into my current system, but, at the moment, because i'm using every single available PCI-E lane, I can't do that. My networking is actually being achieved by a USB 3.2 -> 2.5gb adapter, and this would also give me another fast usb port back!

Yes, I'm aware that this isn't gonna work on my current X570 motherboard, but PCI-E lanes is a main reason that I'd be upgrading to a new MOBO/system to begin with.

all fine and dandy... and I'm far from an engineer.. but if you need more PCIe lanes.. this expansion board doesn't add more? am I wrong on what this prototype does?
Isn't the number of lanes based on the CPU architecture/chipset... if you are tapped out... then you are tapped out... all this expansion board does is throw more devices , on the same PCIe lanes/bus, that the other existing devices are using.... thus saturating the available lanes/bandwidth more..

Am I wrong.. or should I stick to my day job?

 

[Axman]

except for the deceptive marketing on their budget boards, and substandard power delivery and cooling..

They're a value brand that does everything they can to provide legacy support to their customers. I only see good in that.

 

[TheSlySyl]

all fine and dandy... and I'm far from an engineer.. but if you need more PCIe lanes.. this expansion board doesn't add more? am I wrong on what this prototype does?
Isn't the number of lanes based on the CPU architecture/chipset... if you are tapped out... then you are tapped out... all this expansion board does is throw more devices , on the same PCIe lanes/bus, that the other existing devices are using.... thus saturating the available lanes/bandwidth more..

Am I wrong.. or should I stick to my day job?

This particular expansion card adds a second chipset that has more lanes onboard.

 

[Zepher]

Pro Art is ASUS.
https://www.asus.com/us/proart/

I know, I was replying to CVNet1 since he got the Pro Art B650 and an Add-in Thunderbolt card.

 

[toast0]

all this expansion board does is throw more devices , on the same PCIe lanes/bus, that the other existing devices are using.... thus saturating the available lanes/bandwidth more..

AMD chipsets are more or less pci-e switches with some built in pci-e peripherals. If you want more lanes because you're out of bandwidth, adding another switch doesn't help. If you want more lanes because you're out of connectors, a switch could help. This thing has a couple nvme slots, and some peripherals you might already have taking up slots, so maybe it gives you a little bit more room?

 

[jlbenedict]

This particular expansion card adds a second chipset that has more lanes onboard.

Interesting indeed.. maybe this will actually release and we'll learn more on the overall picture on how it works, performs, etc...

but... on that note.. the first link shows one of the photos with it placed in a motherboard that has what looks like 13/14 USB ports already on the back panel...
Who The F! has that many USB peripherals

 

[Delicieuxz]

Did they remove TB4 from the new Pro Art's? I know the X570 and B550 had it onboard,

The Intel Z690 has Thunderbolt 4 on it. The lower-tier ProArt for Intel models have a TB4 header. The ProArt X670 for Zen 4 has USB4 ports - not specifically Thunderbolt 4, but maybe it's implemented just as good and Asus thought they'd save some licensing fees.

 

[Elf_Boy]

Be nice to see this work. Yes it wont change pcie 4 to 5, upgrading the chipset and adding additional ports is still nifty.

 

[CVNet1]

Did they remove TB4 from the new Pro Art's? I know the X570 and B550 had it onboard,
View attachment 544287

The Asus Proart B650 Creator has a TB4 header and accepts the Asus add-in card on a pcie 3.0 x16 slot (@x4 speed).

Not sure why they pushed TB4 into the add-in realm on b650 when last gen b550 had it without the board price being higher.

 

[The Mad Atheist]

So basically making their compatible lower tier MOBOs with less features be like their higher tier MOBOs with more features that gives them better performance than regular PCI-e add-on cards? I guess if it works, it works.

 

[The Mad Atheist]

Interesting indeed.. maybe this will actually release and we'll learn more on the overall picture on how it works, performs, etc...

but... on that note.. the first link shows one of the photos with it placed in a motherboard that has what looks like 13/14 USB ports already on the back panel...
Who The F! has that many USB peripherals


View attachment 544314

Reminds me of my Soyo Dragon MOBOs I bought, 4 or 6 ports on the rear I/O, 4 port USB headers on the MOBO, and 1 included PCI to 4 USB header card. Did I need them all, no. Did I hook them on up, YES!

 

[Burticus]

Interesting. But at what cost?

 

[NamelessPFG]

An interesting idea, but this seems like the sort of card that could be added to any PCIe slot if not for the proprietary breakout header - and with 10GbE on board plus two M.2 NVMe slots that would tie up four PCIe lanes each, I'd think the PCIe x4 interface for the whole card would be a bit of a bottleneck even at 4.0 signaling speeds. Perhaps that's what the second chipset's for.

10GbE alone isn't enough of a selling point for it, though - you can get used Mellanox or Intel NICs for cheap enough that'll work in just about any PCIe x4 slot on any mobo, and for similar prices, 40GbE/FDR InfiniBand also becomes an option if you have a PCIe 3.0 x8 slot to spare (not likely without bifurcating your main x16 slot to the GPU on current board designs).

 

[D-EJ915]

Interesting indeed.. maybe this will actually release and we'll learn more on the overall picture on how it works, performs, etc...

but... on that note.. the first link shows one of the photos with it placed in a motherboard that has what looks like 13/14 USB ports already on the back panel...
Who The F! has that many USB peripherals


View attachment 544314

video / streamer people usually have a ton of stuff connected to usb and they're marketing it toward them too

 

[Ebernanut]

It figures that it would be Asrock. I had an old Asrock socket 939 board that had an optional add on card available for it that turned it into an AM2 board by adding an AM2 socket and DDR2 slots, it also had fully functional AGP and PCIe slots which is why I got it.

 

[Zepher]

It figures that it would be Asrock. I had an old Asrock socket 939 board that had an optional add on card available for it that turned it into an AM2 board by adding an AM2 socket and DDR2 slots, it also had fully functional AGP and PCIe slots which is why I got it.

My Amiga A3000's and the A4000 had CPU slots, looked like a regular card slot, and you could upgrade to faster CPU's by dropping a card in it.
This is the Warp Engine that had a 68040, SCSI controller, and 4 simm slots for up to 128MB of ram.
I actually bought one when they first came out but had to return it since that model was only for the A4000 and was slightly too long and covered up the daughterboard slot.
I paid $1400 for it with no ram back in 1994.

 

[NamelessPFG]

My Amiga A3000's and the A4000 had CPU slots, looked like a regular card slot, and you could upgrade to faster CPU's by dropping a card in it.
This is the Warp Engine that had a 68040, SCSI controller, and 4 simm slots for up to 128MB of ram.
I actually bought one when they first came out but had to return it since that model was only for the A4000 and was slightly too long and covered up the daughterboard slot.
I paid $1400 for it with no ram back in 1994.

View attachment 544558

The crazy thing in hindsight is that said accelerator would probably still fetch $1,400 or more today, due to the insanity of the Amiga market and relative rarity of A3000/A4000 CPU slot accelerators. (Most of the community targets the A1200 and A500.)

On-board Fast RAM is much faster than the motherboard RAM (and not having it makes the stock Commodore A3640 suffer greatly despite having a 25 MHz 68040), the SCSI isn't likely to be bottlenecked by the Zorro III bus as well, and if you managed to score a later Phase 5 CyberStorm with the CyberVision add-on, you can add RTG to the list.

The only thing even more desirable would be one of the PowerPC/68060 accelerators.

As for something closer to what was originally posted, there's the MNT ZZ9000.
https://mntre.com/media/ZZ9000_info_md/2019-08-09-ZZ9000-resources.html

It's a Zorro III RTG card with a scandoubler for native Amiga chipset video, HDMI output... and also an Ethernet NIC, USB Mass Storage drive controller (no full-fledged USB support yet), 256+ MB of Zorro III Fast RAM (actually kinda slow, but better than nothing), a dual 666 MHz ARM coprocessor (which most software isn't coded to use yet), and even an AHI sound card with expansion - absolutely ludicrous, to the point that you can theoretically do some A314-esque shenanigans by running Linux on the ARM cores while still letting it act as the Swiss Army knife of Amiga add-in boards.

 

[THRESHIN]

I hope they make an add in dial modem

 

[sk3tch]

I hope they make an add in dial modem

Shotgun 56K! Two POTS lines required

 

[CVNet1]

I wonder if they could make a 486 add-in board with a direct mounted VESA compatible SVGA chip with 1-4mb vram with a vga header and hdmi connector on the bracket, and 64mb system dram, true sound blaster compatible and adlib chips, comm port headers, game port header, and parallel port header, 2x internal USB 1.1/ 2.0 headers and 4 USB ports, a floppy drive header, a 2x ide header, 2x sata port that are compatible with ahci and the legacy ide mode, and both dual isa and dual pci headers and a custom bios that can emulate ps2 and other legacy functions through the USB ports. Also have the bios support down clocking system the CPU and system for each prior generation all the way to an AT (286) machine clock speed, cache, and processor function.

If they could get the HDMI out, 4x usb ports, and the sound ports on the metal slot bracket, that should be a start.

It would need to support all the old AT voltages and draw power from the pcie or from a pcie 6-8pin connector.

 

[lopoetve]

I think 486dx or maybe it was Pentium cpu upgrades could be done like this too. I think the 486 one wasn't even mobo specific (but who knows).

There have been a few. Socket to slot, socket generations into a slot, both sockets on one board, etc. They've always been odd edge cases, and reliability is... odd sometimes.

 

[lopoetve]

I wonder if they could make a 486 add-in board with a direct mounted VESA compatible SVGA chip with 1-4mb vram with a vga header and hdmi connector on the bracket, and 64mb system dram, true sound blaster compatible and adlib chips, comm port headers, game port header, and parallel port header, 2x internal USB 1.1/ 2.0 headers and 4 USB ports, a floppy drive header, a 2x ide header, 2x sata port that are compatible with ahci and the legacy ide mode, and both dual isa and dual pci headers and a custom bios that can emulate ps2 and other legacy functions through the USB ports. Also have the bios support down clocking system the CPU and system for each prior generation all the way to an AT (286) machine clock speed, cache, and processor function.

If they could get the HDMI out, 4x usb ports, and the sound ports on the metal slot bracket, that should be a start.

It would need to support all the old AT voltages and draw power from the pcie or from a pcie 6-8pin connector.

I would buy this. DX4-100.

 

[Shotglass01]

I love this. I would 100% buy this kind of add in card in the future.

It's all fun and games until ASRock decides a monthly subscription is required to keep your B650 running at X670 speeds! ​

 

[Bigbacon]

seems silly to me to make that kind of thing.

 

[lopoetve]

Did they remove TB4 from the new Pro Art's? I know the X570 and B550 had it onboard,
View attachment 544287

No; Asus isn't paying the licensing to say TBolt, but it's a tbolt controller on the USBC ports. Did a BUNCH of digging on this last week actually - folks on reddit tested and thunderbolt works fine, just doesn't SAY it because they didn't want to pay intel for some reason.