Apples M2 looks like a beast.

[drutman]

Seriously, let's get some 3rd party benchmarks. I'm sick of these "look, one line is higher!!!" graphs that are like something North Korea would publish about their economy.

All companies do this, AMD is famous for useless graphs, too many people are "measurbrators", most of these companies know this and use it a psychological tool for sales.

 

[DukenukemX]

First off, your opinion on this is the definition of moot. Even if I paid you 50 million dollars you wouldn’t move to a Mac.

For 50 million I'll buy as many Macs as you'd want me to.

Secondly, as Aurelius noted, you’d have to have a very specific use case in which thermal throttling could even become an issue. If you’re doing multi hour renders, I guess it could matter. But then that begs the question of why you didn’t buy a 14” MacBook Pro in the first place or any other machine for that matter?

Why are we punishing people for buying a product that shouldn't be used in such a way that it could? It has an 8 core CPU with 10 core GPU, with what purpose is this for? To web browse and play music?

tl;dr: if you need the kind of power that would cause an M2 to throttle without fans, you’re already buying the wrong machine for your use case. You need something faster than an M2.

Or just get one with a fan and all your problems are solved. The 14" Macbook isn't exactly cheap at $2k. If I really needed a Mac and really didn't have a lot of money then 13" Macbook Pro makes the most sense. Actually I would get an M1 based Macbook 13" because they have massive discounts and a faster SSD.

 

[Axman]

Why are we punishing people for buying a product that shouldn't be used in such a way that it could? It has an 8 core CPU with 10 core GPU, with what purpose is this for? To web browse and play music?

AMD's 680M integrated graphics perform in-line with the 1650/5500/580. Granted, AMD is obviously doing a lot with a handful of GPU cores, but it's possible to legit game on integrated graphics with compromises now, and probably not compromises in the future.

 

[Aurelius]

Why are we punishing people for buying a product that shouldn't be used in such a way that it could? It has an 8 core CPU with 10 core GPU, with what purpose is this for? To web browse and play music?

You can still use it for creative work; it's just not the best system to buy if you need maximum performance for sustained workloads. You wouldn't buy an XPS 13 for heavy-duty video production, either. The Air will be great for quick video edits, for image editing, even for some forms of audio production; it's just a mainstream machine.

Or just get one with a fan and all your problems are solved. The 14" Macbook isn't exactly cheap at $2k. If I really needed a Mac and really didn't have a lot of money then 13" Macbook Pro makes the most sense. Actually I would get an M1 based Macbook 13" because they have massive discounts and a faster SSD.

If you really, actually need every last drop of sustained performance, you're buying this computer for time-sensitive work... and you can likely justify the $2K. If it would just be nice to have the performance, then either of the 13-inch systems would be fine. But yes, right now is a very good time to buy an M1-based Mac — they're still more than good enough for most tasks.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

For 50 million I'll buy as many Macs as you'd want me to.

For 50 million dollars it would be Macs only for the rest of your life. And there is no way you'd do it. It's not about "buying a Mac" it's about "using a Mac" and we both know you wouldn't use a Mac, let alone Mac's exclusively until you die.

As for everything else, it's been answered. You have weird double standards.

 

[Axman]

For 50 million dollars it would be Macs only for the rest of your life. And there is no way you'd do it. It's not about "buying a Mac" it's about "using a Mac" and we both know you wouldn't use a Mac, let alone Mac's exclusively until you die.

Is this offer still available?

 

[pendragon1]

For 50 million dollars it would be Macs only for the rest of your life. And there is no way you'd do it. It's not about "buying a Mac" it's about "using a Mac" and we both know you wouldn't use a Mac, let alone Mac's exclusively until you die.

As for everything else, it's been answered. You have weird double standards.

Even if I paid you 50 million dollars you wouldn’t move to a Mac

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Is this offer still available?

I don't have 50 million dollars, but I'd almost be seriously willing to pay DukenukemX to exclusively use Mac's for the rest of his life for $1000. With the contract stating that if he goes back he has to pay me the $1000 plus 4% annual interest.

"Theoretically" rendering for multiple hours isn't even something he actually does. And most other people don't either. There is tangible benefit for being, smaller, lighter, with better cameras, mics, and speakers, and also being dead silent. There is no benefit to having a machine that "never throttles while never having a use case that would actually cause it to throttle".

If I was some stupid Crypto Billionaire, I probably would offer this kind of dumb money because I could. While of course also filming it, turn it into a show, and monetize it. Because people would watch stupid amounts of money being spent on people on the internet getting forced to either put up or shut up.

—————-

Edit: pendragon1 im not really interested in playing the semantics game with you. But in that case it would be a worse situation.
Okay so he has to move to “a Mac”. “A” denotating one, and then NEVER gets to upgrade to another Mac or other machine. While Macs generally can be used for 7-10 years, it would be pretty hard to keep the same machine for the next 30-50 years. But you’re right, maybe using a 30 year old machine would be greater torture for 50 million dollars than allowing DNX to upgrade to a different Mac in the future. As he has to “move to a Mac”. He really shouldn’t get an M1 or M2 then. It would be much smarter to buy an $8000-$15,000 machine that at least will have the best longevity possible. Likely a 16-core 2019 Mac Pro or M1 Ultra at minimum.

 

[DukenukemX]

• For 50 million dollars it would be Macs only for the rest of your life. And there is no way you'd do it. It's not about "buying a Mac" it's about "using a Mac" and we both know you wouldn't use a Mac, let alone Mac's exclusively until you die.

Firstly I do have Macs, a couple of them. A really old PowerPC G4 and a Macbook Air that's like 2013. Both run Linux of course. Second, no part of the deal you said I had to use Mac exclusively.

As for everything else, it's been answered. You have weird double standards.

I am pro consumer. My hatred for Apple comes from them being anti-consumer. I would be pro Mac if Apple were to

• open source all their code
• allow for clones
• actually use a UEFI boot loader
• allow for side loading on their iOS devices

Fix all that and I wouldn't have anything against Apple. If you're going Apple I have no problem at least guiding someone. I would still get an Intel based Mac personally. The performance difference isn't that big and you do have more choices in what software you can run. You could at least run Linux or Windows effectively on those. I actually mock the efforts of Hector Martin's attempts to port Linux onto Apple M series. Without Apple either open sourcing their GPU and their Media Engine drivers or contributing to Linux then none of that stuff will ever work on Linux. Compared to AMD or Intel who have contributed GPU driver code for GPU's that don't exist yet in the market.

 

[DukenukemX]

"Theoretically" rendering for multiple hours isn't even something he actually does. And most other people don't either. There is tangible benefit for being, smaller, lighter, with better cameras, mics, and speakers, and also being dead silent. There is no benefit to having a machine that "never throttles while never having a use case that would actually cause it to throttle".

Actually I do render a lot for my media server. I do play games on my laptops as well. It's good to have a 8 core Ryzen 4700U on my laptop. Admittedly Handbrake does take a long time to render and WinFF is super slow. I use WinFF because that's the only software I know that can convert to Xvid.

If I was some stupid Crypto Billionaire, I probably would offer this kind of dumb money because I could. While of course also filming it, turn it into a show, and monetize it. Because people would watch stupid amounts of money being spent on people on the internet getting forced to either put up or shut up.

If you were a Crypto Billionaire you would have less billions. You know, considering what's going on in the market.

 

[pendragon1]

 

[pendragon1]

 

[1_rick]

"Apple Noob Tries Gaming On A MacBook Pro"


Plays games decently, but with a lot of input lag. Running on a high-refresh rate external monitor gets, duh, higher refresh rate, and lower input lag, but he had a lot of trouble getting that to work--he had to keep plugging and unplugging stuff because games would default to odd resolution settings and the like, and disable the settings so you couldn't change them.

He was impressed that it ran quietly, tho.

 

[Liver]

You wouldn’t had to pay me. You gad me at hello.

 

[DukenukemX]

"Apple Noob Tries Gaming On A MacBook Pro"


Plays games decently, but with a lot of input lag. Running on a high-refresh rate external monitor gets, duh, higher refresh rate, and lower input lag, but he had a lot of trouble getting that to work--he had to keep plugging and unplugging stuff because games would default to odd resolution settings and the like, and disable the settings so you couldn't change them.

He was impressed that it ran quietly, tho.

Odd how many reviewers missed all those problems when using their Apple silicon products to play games. I guess they were so impressed with the lack of fan noise to notice that using it to play games is a nightmare.

Lord Gaben has spoken.

 

[lopoetve]

I'll point out two things:

1. Random youtuber didn't click the "show me games that run on Apple" button (you know, the apple) - which would, you know, limit to games for OSX - just like clicking the penguin limits you to linux games.
2. Not everything has to play games.

 

[Iching]

Firstly I do have Macs, a couple of them. A really old PowerPC G4 and a Macbook Air that's like 2013. Both run Linux of course. Second, no part of the deal you said I had to use Mac exclusively.

I am pro consumer. My hatred for Apple comes from them being anti-consumer. I would be pro Mac if Apple were to

• open source all their code
• allow for clones
• actually use a UEFI boot loader
• allow for side loading on their iOS devices

Fix all that and I wouldn't have anything against Apple. If you're going Apple I have no problem at least guiding someone. I would still get an Intel based Mac personally. The performance difference isn't that big and you do have more choices in what software you can run. You could at least run Linux or Windows effectively on those. I actually mock the efforts of Hector Martin's attempts to port Linux onto Apple M series. Without Apple either open sourcing their GPU and their Media Engine drivers or contributing to Linux then none of that stuff will ever work on Linux. Compared to AMD or Intel who have contributed GPU driver code for GPU's that don't exist yet in the market.

Nobody gives a toss about those things. Get yourself a potato Windows 11. Get some fresh air and exercise.. Life is beautiful, Debbie Downer.

 

[DukenukemX]

I'll point out two things:

1. Random youtuber didn't click the "show me games that run on Apple" button (you know, the apple) - which would, you know, limit to games for OSX - just like clicking the penguin limits you to linux games.

The games CSGO and Bioshock Infinite are suppose to run on Apple but since MacOS Catalina you can't run 32-bit applications. The company Aspyr who also ports games to Linux, decided to not update certain games they ported to Mac OSX, and Bioshock Infinite was one of them. Also CS:GO is OpenGL on Mac, which probably would explain the poor performance as Apple hasn't given a shit about OpenGL for many years.

Do you see why Apple has a terrible track record for game support when Apple decides every few years to break everything and expects developers to rewrite their code? This is why x86 still exists because nobody feels like spending money to rewrite thousands or maybe millions of lines of code because Apple feels like ARM this decade, or maybe they'll drop 32-bit support this year.

2. Not everything has to play games.

Nobody gives a toss about those things. Get yourself a potato Windows 11. Get some fresh air and exercise.. Life is beautiful, Debbie Downer.

 

[NightReaver]

Nobody gives a toss about those things. Get yourself a potato Windows 11. Get some fresh air and exercise.. Life is beautiful, Debbie Downer.

What does outdoors and fresh air have to do with apple performance?

 

[lopoetve]

I get the humor, but seriously - why would I play games on a laptop? No time on business trips, personal trips I’m out doing actual fun things I can’t do wherever I’m from, and if I’m home, I’d rather play on any of the three monster systems I have that can play games instead. If I really need to play a game on the go, I’ve got a pair of tablets and a phone. Or I can go buy a switch.

I haven’t had a laptop capable of playing games in years (Intel integrated is just as bad as anything Apple puts out - worse, in fact, since the things that do run on Apple tend to run much better), and even when I did (Alienware R13), it was barely ever used.

So I’ll say it again. Not everything has to play games. If I had a job where I was always on the road, or 20 years ago when I was in school- maybe. But I grew up past that point.

But that’s my personal perspective. From the real world perspective, the people buying these (corporate or otherwise) don’t care about playing steam games on it. If they did, they’d buy something else. It’s that simple. I just got assigned a 14” M1 Pro - best laptop I’ve had for years. All day battery life, usable power when I do have to do some crunching on the road, runs cool….

 

[duronboy]

2. Not everything has to play games.

Matrox and Cyrix like this

 

[drutman]

Here we go again with PC fanboys refusing to believe that Apple now makes the fastest laptops in the world in their respective formfactors (Ultrabook, thin and light 13 and 14).

I have a loaded MBP 14. I'll paypal you $10 if anyone here has a 13 or 14 inch laptop in the same class (not a 4 inch thick desktop replacement) which outperforms it in any of these benchmarks or specs:

Cinebench
Storage Space (8TB)
Amount of RAM (64GB)
Storage Speed (read and write)
Geekbench
Premiere Pro video 4k video rendering
Amount of time the fan doesn't run
Handbrake encode

When you factor in that most PC laptops can't even win at one of these things and Apple combines all of them - plus killer battery life, great thermals, an accurate screen, etc, there is nothing even close from an overall system performance standpoint in the PC world. Even little things like the headphone jack in the new Pros....it can actually drive my Sennheiser HD650s to deafening volumes whereas on the previous gen I needed a standalone amp. It's just better.

My son has one and loves it, he dual boots Windows too. The screen is second to none and the boot times smokes Intel. Be aware Apple has a closed ecosystem and likes propriety stuff making upgrades difficult. Soldered RAM and SSD makes replacement difficult. Runs cool but some throttling ie thermal management happens. Not a deal breaker. Seems to run Adobe products faster than Intel does. Service is second to none too. You get what you pay for with Apple.

 

[DukenukemX]

I get the humor, but seriously - why would I play games on a laptop?

For you? I don't know, who cares. For other people it could be that they're always relocating their living conditions. Maybe they can't afford to buy multiple machines, so they need a machine that does everything. Maybe you suffer from terrible import taxes.

I haven’t had a laptop capable of playing games in years

That's stupid because all laptops can play games. It's a matter of what games can you play. If your laptop sucks then it can't play modern games like Elden Ring or Doom Eternal. Maybe it can't play 6 year old games like Doom 2016. You should be able to play classics like Half Life 2 or Mass Effect series. Apple though is just extremely limited in what software you can run due them changing their CPU architecture and OS every so often. As much as I rag on Windows, you can still run most applications made for it from the past 2 decades. With Mac OSX you can't run 32-bit software from more than 3 years ago. You're limited in what you can run in x86, and PowerPC is forgotten.

(Intel integrated is just as bad as anything Apple puts out - worse, in fact, since the things that do run on Apple tend to run much better),

You didn't see the part where CSGO ran much slower on the M2 than on Intel or AMD CPU's? Do we not count certain applications because you say so?

So I’ll say it again. Not everything has to play games. If I had a job where I was always on the road, or 20 years ago when I was in school- maybe. But I grew up past that point.

Nobody cares.

But that’s my personal perspective. From the real world perspective, the people buying these (corporate or otherwise) don’t care about playing steam games on it. If they did, they’d buy something else.

They already do. Mac OSX is less than 10% of the market share, for a reason.

My son has one and loves it, he dual boots Windows too.

You can't dual boot Windows on Apple silicon.

 

[jfreund]

 

[DukenukemX]

Digital Foundry did some tests.

 

[lopoetve]

For you? I don't know, who cares. For other people it could be that they're always relocating their living conditions. Maybe they can't afford to buy multiple machines, so they need a machine that does everything. Maybe you suffer from terrible import taxes.

Then buy something else. That’s why there are options. Why do you care that Apple doesn’t have an interest in gaming?

That's stupid because all laptops can play games. It's a matter of what games can you play. If your laptop sucks then it can't play modern games like Elden Ring or Doom Eternal. Maybe it can't play 6 year old games like Doom 2016. You should be able to play classics like Half Life 2 or Mass Effect series. Apple though is just extremely limited in what software you can run due them changing their CPU architecture and OS every so often.

So buy something else. If anything can play those, picking up something cheap to play them on the go should be easy. Heck, buy a steam deck!

As much as I rag on Windows, you can still run most applications made for it from the past 2 decades. With Mac OSX you can't run 32-bit software from more than 3 years ago. You're limited in what you can run in x86, and PowerPC is forgotten.

And? Haven’t had a need to run any of that stuff in years. Heck I’m more bothered by some of the old phone games than OSX stuff; at least that you expect to be backwards compatible. A computer is a tool, buy the right one for the job you need to do. I don’t need my laptops playing games - it needs to write code, have the horizon client, do document work, and occasionally minor photo/video editing. Oh and a web browser.

You didn't see the part where CSGO ran much slower on the M2 than on Intel or AMD CPU's? Do we not count certain applications because you say so?

Meh? I haven’t played counter strike in 20 years. If you’re serious about playing games, don’t buy an Apple laptop.

Nobody cares.

You apparently do, because you keep complaining that Apple hardware doesn’t play games. My response to that is so what?

They already do. Mac OSX is less than 10% of the market share, for a reason.


You can't dual boot Windows on Apple silicon.

Like I said, buy what works for you and what you need. I personally am happy with my MacBook Pro. My coworkers are happy with theirs. Some of them have gaming laptops to. Some don’t. None of us are complaining about running ARM on OSX for what the tool was provided for. It does what we need without complaining - day in and day out.

Would I buy one if I needed a personal laptop? Don’t know - honestly. I haven’t had a personal laptop in years. My last one was an old Lenovo think book that sits running Linux and is used maybe an hour a month - generally for RDPing to a control box to fire up part of the lab. And that’s because my work machine is generally in my backpack. Also got an older 17” thinkpad that has been in a drawer for 9 months, and an older 13” Intel MBP that is used for lab work when I’m chilling in my recliner. Also about an hour a month.

Now I will say that I have no use for an Apple desktop system of any kind - but laptops are tools and Apple works fine for my needs.

 

[DukenukemX]

Then buy something else. That’s why there are options. Why do you care that Apple doesn’t have an interest in gaming?

Because Apple is a piece of shit company that makes piece of shit hardware with piece of shit software that people buy and think they're smart.

And? Haven’t had a need to run any of that stuff in years.

Nobody cares. You are not important.

Heck I’m more bothered by some of the old phone games than OSX stuff; at least that you expect to be backwards compatible.

Why are you surprised that Apple does this? This isn't a problem on Android.

A computer is a tool, buy the right one for the job you need to do. I don’t need my laptops playing games - it needs to write code, have the horizon client, do document work, and occasionally minor photo/video editing. Oh and a web browser.

Again, nobody cares. You aren't everyone. You are unimportant. I guarantee you that the top tasks ran on a PC is gonna be gaming, with porn probably at #1. Should anyone be surprised from this?

https://www.tech10ment.com/things-people-do-on-laptop/

 

[XenIneX]

Because Apple is a piece of shit company that makes piece of shit hardware with piece of shit software that people buy and think they're smart.

Some people are defined by their love. Some, by their hate. Which kind are you?

Choose wisely...
(Nobody likes platform warriors.)

Nobody cares. You are not important.

Why are you surprised that Apple does this? This isn't a problem on Android.

I'll keep this in mind the next time Google's permissions-changing fuckery breaks something important to me. Which is every time.

Go ahead and load the apps from your OG Motorola Droid on a modern device. It won't be pretty.

I guarantee you that the top tasks ran on a PC is gonna be [...]

...spreadsheets. And document editing. Also, webforms.

Games? Yeah... that'll be a rounding error on the pie chart.

And I'm pretty sure porn works equally well on every platform. People know where their priorities lie...

 

[lopoetve]

Because Apple is a piece of shit company that makes piece of shit hardware with piece of shit software that people buy and think they're smart.

Show me on the doll where Steve Jobs touched you. They’re a company the same as every other out there - they don’t do anything that others don’t.

Nobody cares. You are not important.

Neither are you.

Why are you surprised that Apple does this? This isn't a problem on Android.

ROFL. Bullshit. Had two android phones and still have two tablets. Does happen. Not the same way, but does happen. Got more than a few apps that don’t run on later updates - not because blocked but because the OS left them behind.

Again, nobody cares. You aren't everyone. You are unimportant. I guarantee you that the top tasks ran on a PC is gonna be gaming, with porn probably at #1. Should anyone be surprised from this?

So you believe all that market share is for gaming? Really??

https://www.tech10ment.com/things-people-do-on-laptop/

Seriously? A site that can’t use proper English, is broken on mobile (borked JS or PHP from the looks of it), and hasn’t been updated in 2 years? That’s some kids hobby, not a news article.

Use the right tool for the job. Buy a nice gaming laptop if you want one.

 

[duronboy]

Show me on the doll where Steve Jobs touched you.

Former Apple execs have shown many dolls. One former CEO wrote a book in which there were several deeply concerning accounts. Not a great guy.

Why do you care that Apple doesn’t have an interest in gaming?

For me it's that they love to ignore market demand and tell people what and how to use their products. Because aesthetics. Or planned obsolescence.

I don’t need my laptops playing games

The thing is there's a few things you can do with a decent GPU that aren't games.

Nobody cares. You are not important.

Let's hate on evil corporations, not each other.

 

[skiddy]

I’ll mostly stay out of this laptop gaming argument, but a quick anecdote as an avid gamer and road warrior that has a higher-end gaming laptop, I rarely use it and know no-one that games on the road. It seems extremely niche to me – if you game (outside of mobile devices), travel or move around a lot, and can have only ONE computer, then yes, I’d always suggest a windows laptop with a dGPU.

More inline with the original thread – my M2 MBA came in last week and I absolutely love it. The battery life is nuts, and the speed for general use has been great so far. I enjoy MacOS in a non-professional setting and using it to dab into coding. It’s replacing a well used, 9-year-old 2013 MBP 15” that was probably my most used device of all time; in a home environment that typically has 3-7 other windows/linux computers/servers at any given time.

The SSD and throttling issues are valid – there’s really no excuse for putting such a dogshit 256GB SSD in the base models. The throttling issue only bugs me because it’s worse than the previous generation, but it has no direct impact on my use-case. My encoding requirements are better suited on my desktops and servers, and it’s not the intention I had for an ultrabook. I have plenty of complaints about Apple's marketing and product management practices, but they make great software and devices in my opinion and I will continue to use them. That's not really different from nearly every other technology manufacturer that I am a user of.

 

[lopoetve]

Former Apple execs have shown many dolls. One former CEO wrote a book in which there were several deeply concerning accounts. Not a great guy.

Fair enough - but I somehow doubt that the hate in this case is personal as such.

For me it's that they love to ignore market demand and tell people what and how to use their products. Because aesthetics. Or planned obsolescence.

Apple's profit has been spectacular for years - they're ignoring the market that some people are in for a market others are in. This is common business practice (blue ocean vs red ocean is the term normally used); seems to be making them plenty of money. They're selling to a group of folks happy to spend money - that's the job of the CEO - and not competing directly against other established competitors in a market with much smaller margins.

Now how to use their products? Sure - that gets annoying at times, but you either live with it, or buy something else.

The thing is there's a few things you can do with a decent GPU that aren't games.

Absolutely; a lot of my earlier posts in the other threads were about uses I've already seen coming up for M1 Ultra/Pro in the Studio, and uses that folks have for both consumer and enterprise GPUs. This is something I specialized in for the last 5 years until just recently - especially on the enterprise AI/ML and VDI space. For many of those, the M1/2 GPUs can still be used for that. Different language at times, but a vector processor is a vector processor. Unified memory has advantages and disadvantages. It's an interesting use case that I had two customers exploring when I finally left the large OEM I was at (and they both were when I was at the place following said OEM).

Let's hate on evil corporations, not each other.

Amen. Apple I don't think is evil - they just target a different market than most of the folks on [H] want to be in, so there tends to be some irrational dislike for them.

I’ll mostly stay out of this laptop gaming argument, but a quick anecdote as an avid gamer and road warrior that has a higher-end gaming laptop, I rarely use it and know no-one that games on the road. It seems extremely niche to me – if you game (outside of mobile devices), travel or move around a lot, and can have only ONE computer, then yes, I’d always suggest a windows laptop with a dGPU.

This was me. I carried it a decent amount, and a lot of times it watched movies or connected in to my personal DCs to do pseudo-work. I got half way through one of the wolfenstein games on it in 3 years.

More inline with the original thread – my M2 MBA came in last week and I absolutely love it. The battery life is nuts, and the speed for general use has been great so far. I enjoy MacOS in a non-professional setting and using it to dab into coding. It’s replacing a well used, 9-year-old 2013 MBP 15” that was probably my most used device of all time; in a home environment that typically has 3-7 other windows/linux computers/servers at any given time.

The SSD and throttling issues are valid – there’s really no excuse for putting such a dogshit 256GB SSD in the base models. The throttling issue only bugs me because it’s worse than the previous generation, but it has no direct impact on my use-case. My encoding requirements are better suited on my desktops and servers, and it’s not the intention I had for an ultrabook. I have plenty of complaints about Apple's marketing and product management practices, but they make great software and devices in my opinion and I will continue to use them. That's not really different from nearly every other technology manufacturer that I am a user of.

Pretty much. I don't buy laptops; I get assigned them by corporate at the various places I work. My 15" Intel MBP was crap (last generation prior to the M1), both keyboard and usability, but the M1 Pro I've got now is spectacular. There's nothing I can't do on it I've had a need or desire to.

 

[drutman]

For you? I don't know, who cares. For other people it could be that they're always relocating their living conditions. Maybe they can't afford to buy multiple machines, so they need a machine that does everything. Maybe you suffer from terrible import taxes.

That's stupid because all laptops can play games. It's a matter of what games can you play. If your laptop sucks then it can't play modern games like Elden Ring or Doom Eternal. Maybe it can't play 6 year old games like Doom 2016. You should be able to play classics like Half Life 2 or Mass Effect series. Apple though is just extremely limited in what software you can run due them changing their CPU architecture and OS every so often. As much as I rag on Windows, you can still run most applications made for it from the past 2 decades. With Mac OSX you can't run 32-bit software from more than 3 years ago. You're limited in what you can run in x86, and PowerPC is forgotten.

You didn't see the part where CSGO ran much slower on the M2 than on Intel or AMD CPU's? Do we not count certain applications because you say so?

Nobody cares.

They already do. Mac OSX is less than 10% of the market share, for a reason.


You can't dual boot Windows on Apple silicon.

He runs it with a VM

 

[DukenukemX]

Some people are defined by their love. Some, by their hate. Which kind are you?

Choose wisely...

Focus on science.

(Nobody likes platform warriors.)

I'm pro consumer, not a platform warrior. Apple is currently the worst, even worse than Microsoft. Nvidia open sourced their drivers. You see Apple doing anything like that with Mac OSX or their silicon drivers? I got like 101 reasons but I don't wanna bore you.

I'll keep this in mind the next time Google's permissions-changing fuckery breaks something important to me. Which is every time.

What makes you think I'm a huge fan of Android? Android is just less shit.

Go ahead and load the apps from your OG Motorola Droid on a modern device. It won't be pretty.

I do this all the time and you have no idea how old my apks are. They still work. Actually I gotta use an old Netflix apk for some devices because they're not on the approved list from Netflix. Though that's just as much of a Netflix issue than an Android one.

...spreadsheets. And document editing. Also, webforms.

Games? Yeah... that'll be a rounding error on the pie chart.

And I'm pretty sure porn works equally well on every platform. People know where their priorities lie...

Feel free to find something that proves that, but as far as I know gaming and porn, as Gabe Newel even pointed out. Not necessarily in that order.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxfqDlhOf4JO7g1TWSkHsf2q64P8E7aXFW

Show me on the doll where Steve Jobs touched you.

Steve jobs owned a PC.
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx3oq1BGokqOdri8KsaDdjGIwYKYgPDM9p

They’re a company the same as every other out there - they don’t do anything that others don’t.

Yea, they do it worse. Not gonna say that Microsoft is a white night or anything, but Microsoft tries to emulate Apple, because Apple gets away with shit that Microsoft has wet dreams about. You can include other companies like Samsung. Whenever Apple does something stupid like take away the headphone jack, we all cower in fear as the rest of the industry tires to copy them, because nobody asked for it.

Neither are you.

You are correct. My personal experience doesn't matter. What matters is what the majority are doing.

So you believe all that market share is for gaming? Really??

I think that Apple fucked up in getting into the gaming market that they just ignore it and hope that it doesn't bite them in the ass later.

Seriously? A site that can’t use proper English, is broken on mobile (borked JS or PHP from the looks of it), and hasn’t been updated in 2 years? That’s some kids hobby, not a news article.

Find one better if you don't like it.

 

[duronboy]

It would make Apple's marketing dept's job so much easier if they could get all their customers to associate that rick and morty sadness with people who appear to hate them the most.

 

[DukenukemX]

It would make Apple's marketing dept's job so much easier if they could get all their customers to associate that rick and morty sadness with people who appear to hate them the most.

Also to reinforce my point about the stuff Apple does. So now they wanna show more ads. I have adblock on my Android devices, so I don't know if this is a thing yet on Android. If it isn't, they will be soon as everyone copies the terrible stuff Apple does.

 

[jfreund]

View attachment 500805

I don't care what you think of Apple, that's funny.

 

[Aurelius]

It would make Apple's marketing dept's job so much easier if they could get all their customers to associate that rick and morty sadness with people who appear to hate them the most.

I don't think it has to — we're already there.

Apple is a popular, mainstream brand that generally makes quality products. It left niche status a long, long time ago. Ask the broader public what they think of Apple and they might not like the brand, but they'll rarely show outright contempt for it. If anything, they'll probably look at Anything But Apple types as unhealthy — why would anyone be obsessed with attacking someone else's choice of phone or computer?

And frankly, the company doesn't have to care even slightly about what hardcore detractors think. Those diehards are never going to buy Apple products regardless of how well the devices perform, how they're priced, or how they're made; there's no point to Apple wasting energy on that crowd when there are many, many more reasonable people forking over cash. It's amusing to see some folks moan about the MacBook Air M2's supposedly fatal flaws when the truth is that it's well-designed (with a couple of significant limitations, to be clear) and is probably selling like gangbusters.

 

[DukenukemX]

If anything, they'll probably look at Anything But Apple types as unhealthy — why would anyone be obsessed with attacking someone else's choice of phone or computer?

Because Apple is not longer a niche, they can decide which direction the industry goes, and usually in a anti-consumer direction. Look at the video where the guy tries to run games on the M2, and finds that nearly all of them are being difficult about it. This is because Apple dumped 32-bit, because that is exactly what their customers wanted, which is less compatibility with their older applications. All we need now is Microsoft to copy this and make running 32-bit apps impossible. Going ARM is doing nobody any favors either, as they just divided their own customer base, as well as hope the rest of the industry adapts to their CPU flavor of the decade.

And frankly, the company doesn't have to care even slightly about what hardcore detractors think.

What hardcore, Apple can't even make texting simple. Google even tried working with these assholes and they won't comply.

Those diehards are never going to buy Apple products regardless of how well the devices perform, how they're priced, or how they're made;

They're slow, overpriced, and made like shit. I can prove this mathematically.

there's no point to Apple wasting energy on that crowd when there are many, many more reasonable people forking over cash.

You know the word Sheeple was created for Apple apologists. I can't make this stuff up.

It's amusing to see some folks moan about the MacBook Air M2's supposedly fatal flaws when the truth is that it's well-designed (with a couple of significant limitations, to be clear) and is probably selling like gangbusters.

It needs a fan. It thermal throttles and does poorly on benchmarks without a fan. Running your hardware to 95C is not good. Heat is the #1 killer of computers, and Apple is certainly not exempt from this. The worst part is that the Macbook Air M1's were worse, but nobody cared to report it since most reviews were done by Apple focused reviewers and they'll never say anything negative against Apple. Now we have other none Apple focused reviewers like Dawid Does Tech Stuff looking at M1/M2 products, and it turns out they're a nightware to game on. The worst part is that running it hot then cold repeatedly is how stuff breaks, as you're expanding and contracting the chips, which will break them over time. Regular laptops run the fans higher because nobody wants a dead laptop in 5 years.

 

[Aurelius]

Because Apple is not longer a niche, they can decide which direction the industry goes, and usually in a anti-consumer direction. Look at the video where the guy tries to run games on the M2, and finds that nearly all of them are being difficult about it. This is because Apple dumped 32-bit, because that is exactly what their customers wanted, which is less compatibility with their older applications. All we need now is Microsoft to copy this and make running 32-bit apps impossible. Going ARM is doing nobody any favors either, as they just divided their own customer base, as well as hope the rest of the industry adapts to their CPU flavor of the decade.

What hardcore, Apple can't even make texting simple. Google even tried working with these assholes and they won't comply.


They're slow, overpriced, and made like shit. I can prove this mathematically.
View attachment 500861

You know the word Sheeple was created for Apple apologists. I can't make this stuff up.
View attachment 500862

It needs a fan. It thermal throttles and does poorly on benchmarks without a fan. Running your hardware to 95C is not good. Heat is the #1 killer of computers, and Apple is certainly not exempt from this. The worst part is that the Macbook Air M1's were worse, but nobody cared to report it since most reviews were done by Apple focused reviewers and they'll never say anything negative against Apple. Now we have other none Apple focused reviewers like Dawid Does Tech Stuff looking at M1/M2 products, and it turns out they're a nightware to game on. The worst part is that running it hot then cold repeatedly is how stuff breaks, as you're expanding and contracting the chips, which will break them over time. Regular laptops run the fans higher because nobody wants a dead laptop in 5 years.

The point sailed right over your head.

It's that this kind of sturm-und-drang amounts to very little, especially when there are thorough reviews and videos (i.e. not just puff pieces) that paint a very different picture while still acknowledging concerns. You think you're striking a mighty blow that would lead any sensible person to drop their Apple gear; the reality is that many people would see your diatribes and ask "what the hell is wrong with him? It's just a computer."

And it is just a computer. I don't think the Air M2 has any particular magic formula. There will be some tasks where comparable x86 laptops are better; it could use more ports; and the fanless design means you won't want to use it as a full-time pro workstation (hence why the 14- and 16-inch MacBook Pros exist). It just happens to be a speedy, long-lasting and very portable machine. We haven't heard of Air M1 users cooking their laptops after two years, so it's unlikely the M2 model will be fine. And I have to admit, I laugh at how you keep pretending "Macs don't game well" is a shocking revelation... you know, that thing virtually everyone has known for a quarter-century. Especially when it's a thin-and-light laptop.

Besides, it's a bit rich to decry Apple as some horrible monster when Samsung just got its CEO pardoned in South Korea for bribery charges... and this isn't the first time it has embarked on large-scale corruption, either. I'm still fine with buying Samsung products, but Samsung makes Apple look like an innocent dove.