Anyone seriously considering the 4070 TI

[TheHig]

Looks like some buyers remorse or maybe someone locally is buying one of everything to review on thier fledgling YouTube channel…😉

 

[ZeroBarrier]

Looks like some buyers remorse or maybe someone locally is buying one of everything to review on thier fledgling YouTube channel…😉

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But... but... but... They aren't selling, we were told they are sitting on shelves rotting.

 

[NightReaver]

But... but... but... They aren't selling, we were told they are sitting on shelves rotting.

Not selling well =/= not selling at all. Come on man, that's a hell of a reach.

 

[ZeroBarrier]

Not selling well =/= not selling at all. Come on man, that's a hell of a reach.

Rotting on the shelves means not selling almost anything at all. Perhaps you should read what I wrote again.

 

[NightReaver]

Rotting on the shelves means not selling almost anything at all. Perhaps you should read what I wrote again.

The majority of them could be rotting on shelves for all we know. Just because a handful sell for whatever reason (someone reviewing, someone seeing if they're actually worth the asking price) doesn't really say much.

 

[TheHig]

The cards I posted are open box at Microcenter meaning they were sold and then returned for whatever reason. So yes they are selling but so many returns are curious to me. Flying back to the shelf?! Seriously though, I buy a lot of open box stuff there if they discount it heavily because you can still register it for warranty 99.9% of the time in my experience. Especially a few months after launches so current gen at a discount way before any price cuts if any even come at all the first year.

 

[lopoetve]

The cards I posted are open box at Microcenter meaning they were sold and then returned for whatever reason. So yes they are selling but so many returns are curious to me. Flying back to the shelf?! Seriously though, I buy a lot of open box stuff there if they discount it heavily because you can still register it for warranty 99.9% of the time in my experience. Especially a few months after launches so current gen at a discount way before any price cuts if any even come at all the first year.

Same. Works great except sometimes motherboards that are missing accessories or are flaky because of an idiot prior install.

 

[HockeyJon]

Founders packaging;

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Founders Edition packaging leaks out

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I can't wait to not buy this overpriced crap!

 

[NamelessPFG]

I think NV did a great disservice to its own products as well as customers by pushing the "4070Ti = 3090/Ti" thing so hard. Like I get it, it makes the 4070Ti sound better while technically being true, kind of, in some situations. But like you said, 3090/Ti is uniquely equipped with the extra VRAM, a niche feature with specific uses that cannot simply be replaced with "higher clocks and more cache". I went with a 3090Ti because I'm somewhat of an edge case with texture mods and maxxing resolutions at low FPS- no 12GB card would work for me, not thru guile nor brute force. If that wasn't the case I may have considered a 4070Ti but NV is just being misleading saying a 12GB card is the same as a 24GB card when there is a 12GB version of the 24GB card right there for direct comparison.

Re: the bus width on AD104... I know I'm probably in the minority here but I honestly don't have a problem with that part. Yeah, historically xx104 cards have had 256-bit GDDR bus. But Lovelace architecture has that major L2 cache which changes things. The cache boost allows 4090 to kick the shit out of 3090Ti with the exact same memory bus, allows 4080 to exceed 3090Ti despite having similar GDDR b/w to an OC 3070Ti, and AMDs similar (in spirit) L3 implementation on Navi2 allowed them to knock down bus widths by a tier across the stack (saving power + cost + size) while mostly maintaining performance. Would 4070Ti be "better" with 256-bit bus? Ofc, but I don't know that a card with that shader performance and TMU/ROP count really needs much more B/W and mem capacity. It just needs to be cheaper.


Arguably, the 3080Ti was almost never a $1200 card. It was like an $1800 card in 2021/ early 2022, then quickly plummeted to $1000 and below in mid 2022. I think that's a big part of the "pricing problem" with RTX 4000- it's not just that prices were very high the past couple years, it's that they were inconsistent. All the high-end cards went from way above MSRP to way below MSRP in a flash (even months and months before Ada was announced). There was no consistent value baseline coming from last-gen, just whatever prices ended up being in any given month. That unfortunately provides an opening for RTX 4000 to artificially follow the same pattern, being released high and then getting lots of price cuts later in the cycle to boost sales once value has been "established" thru high MSRP.

I'm curious as to what texture mods you're using that would exceed 12 GB, since nothing I ran with the 7900 XTX would come close to 24 GB, though I did have one or two hit about 15 GB, making the RTX 4080 just viable with only 16 GB.

Sure makes me wonder if there's a fanmade S3TC pack for UT'99 that really goes all-out with the texture resolution; I always think back to that game and how the various S3TC packs made it look more detailed than much newer games (including its own successors!) because of the ludicrous resolutions on offer.

As for memory bus width, yes, that's only part of the overall picture; I think we all remember how hard AMD's old HBM cards flopped despite having 2048 (Vega) or even 4096-bit (VII) VRAM buses.

You can either scale up parallel (more bus width) or serial (higher clock speed), and it's a combination thereof alongside extra techniques like texture compression that determine real-world performance in the end.

That said, it's also a sign when a lower-end GPU for a given architecture skimps on bus width to lower costs, and it still has an MSRP of $800 before the usual AIB markups!

 

[modi123]

Here I am looking at a 3060ti or 4070ti.. but having a problem choking down the price.

 

[NightReaver]

Here I am looking at a 3060ti or 4070ti.. but having a problem choking down the price.

That's just a normal reaction. I got my 6800xt for $550 or so months and months ago at MC, and here comes the 4070ti trying to command a $830+ price point there. Sad.

 

[buttons]

id probably get a 3060ti as a placeholder and wait until 4070s are like $400. I just switched from a 6900xt to a 6600xt and didnt notice any difference at 1440p.

 

[Blade-Runner]

The usuals are probably going bitch about me posting MLID again, but I dont care....here is his latest update on 4070 Ti sales.

 

[Decko87]

The usuals are probably going bitch about me posting MLID again, but I dont care....here is his latest update on 4070 Ti sales.

The question is, is it worth it to them to sell fewer cards at their current price point? Why would they cut their prices if the current sales numbers are good enough with the margins they're making. The two quarterly earnings reports should give us some insights.

 

[jhatfie]

The question is, is it worth it to them to sell fewer cards at their current price point? Why would they cut their prices if the current sales numbers are good enough with the margins they're making. The two quarterly earnings reports should give us some insights.

Yeah I suppose that is the real question. Just an example with the numbers, but would Nvidia prefer to sell 500,000 4070ti cards at $300 profit each or sell double the cards at 1,000,000, but 1/2 the profit at $150 each. If they stick to their guns and refuse to drop prices, they will reinforce these inflated prices as the new normal and if they and board partners maintain less stock, there is less they need to discount when it comes time to transition to the next architecture to clear inventory. Maybe they are banking that sooner or later, people will cave and just pay the higher prices and they can afford to have a slow quarter or two with profits in other segments making up some of the difference?

 

[LukeTbk]

Just an example with the numbers, but would Nvidia prefer to sell 500,000 4070ti cards at $300 profit each or sell double the cards at 1,000,000, but 1/2 the profit at $150 each

The first one seem significantly better (i.e. same profit with significantly less spending, which seem to indicate better margin

Maybe they are banking that sooner or later, people will cave and just pay the higher prices and they can afford to have a slow quarter or two with profits in other segments making up some of the difference?

They are virtually certain to have giant drop in income and profits, high margin could be interesting to have at least something to put in bullet point that do not sound terrible.

 

[SmokeRngs]

Yeah I suppose that is the real question. Just an example with the numbers, but would Nvidia prefer to sell 500,000 4070ti cards at $300 profit each or sell double the cards at 1,000,000, but 1/2 the profit at $150 each. If they stick to their guns and refuse to drop prices, they will reinforce these inflated prices as the new normal and if they and board partners maintain less stock, there is less they need to discount when it comes time to transition to the next architecture to clear inventory. Maybe they are banking that sooner or later, people will cave and just pay the higher prices and they can afford to have a slow quarter or two with profits in other segments making up some of the difference?

When it comes to the tiers which require volume sales, it's a bad idea. It's likely to cause a loss of marketshare which will hurt a lot more in the long run.

It's a very different thing to aim for really high margins at the highest performance tiers because those tiers are never popular enough to require high numbers of cards. The low and midrange tiers are a completely different story.

The only people who think you can have the same or similar margins at every pricing tier and keep marketshare are delusional.

 

[Blade-Runner]

Maybe they are banking that sooner or later, people will cave and just pay the higher prices and they can afford to have a slow quarter or two with profits in other segments making up some of the difference?

I doubt Nvidia shareholders will be impressed with that strategy.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Yeah I suppose that is the real question. Just an example with the numbers, but would Nvidia prefer to sell 500,000 4070ti cards at $300 profit each or sell double the cards at 1,000,000, but 1/2 the profit at $150 each. If they stick to their guns and refuse to drop prices, they will reinforce these inflated prices as the new normal and if they and board partners maintain less stock, there is less they need to discount when it comes time to transition to the next architecture to clear inventory. Maybe they are banking that sooner or later, people will cave and just pay the higher prices and they can afford to have a slow quarter or two with profits in other segments making up some of the difference?

They aren't selling the volume either way. I didn't watch that entire MLID video, but I think it's pretty concise on what is happening. The 4070Ti is selling even worse than the 4080 and there are already tons of cards sitting in the channel. He even notes that 4090 sales are slowing down. There is a pretty limited number of people willing to buy $1600 cards even if it is the top of the stack and best performance "at any cost".
All this will allow to happen is for AMD to sell everything they make and continue to make them look like a tremendous deal. And the used market will continue churning stock. At some point nVidia has to cave unless their actual plan is to leave 1000's of cards unsold. If no one buys those cards, it's lost revenue for sure, and almost assuredly profit. If this continues long enough: what do they do, launch next gen and leave old 40xx series card at the same prices? That magical strategy isn't going to work either. All AMD has to do is simply softball pitch a card of any reasonable value and nVidia loses market share.

All of the staunch nVidia defenders are just as out of touch with this situation as nVidia themselves are. This is a total joke.

 

[SmokeRngs]

They aren't selling the volume either way. I didn't watch that entire MLID video, but I think it's pretty concise on what is happening. The 4070Ti is selling even worse than the 4080 and there are already tons of cards sitting in the channel. He even notes that 4090 sales are slowing down. There is a pretty limited number of people willing to buy $1600 cards even if it is the top of the stack and best performance "at any cost".
All this will allow to happen is for AMD to sell everything they make and continue to make them look like a tremendous deal. And the used market will continue churning stock. At some point nVidia has to cave unless their actual plan is to leave 1000's of cards unsold. If no one buys those cards, it's lost revenue for sure, and almost assuredly profit. If this continues long enough: what do they do, launch next gen and leave old 40xx series card at the same prices? That magical strategy isn't going to work either. All AMD has to do is simply softball pitch a card of any reasonable value and nVidia loses market share.

All of the staunch nVidia defenders are just as out of touch with this situation as nVidia themselves are. This is a total joke.

Additionally, this doesn't take into account the fact that AMD was supply constrained on the video card front for much of the past two years. Due to various changes between the 6000 series and the 7000 series there should eventually be much better supply of AMD cards. If nVidia continues the massive overpricing of their cards it only invites AMD to steal a lot of marketshare.

It's not going to matter if nVidia sells 500k cards at a $300 profit if AMD ends up selling a million cards at $200 profit. That's a loss of profit and marketshare for nVidia. nVidia may know something that I don't regarding future supply of AMD cards but I've seen nothing to suggest that AMD can't supply as many or more cards than in the previous generation; and likely at lower cost or at the very least equal cost taking into account inflation.

I see no reason to defend any company wanting to push vastly overpriced cards. I also see no reason to defend a company pushing overpriced cards. nVidia and AMD fit into one of those categories. Neither company is "good" but nVidia's current strategy is rarely ever successful outside of a pure monopoly. And generally a horrible mistake when you have any sort of competition.

 

[vjhawk]

I see no reason to defend any company wanting to push vastly overpriced cards. I also see no reason to defend a company pushing overpriced cards. nVidia and AMD fit into one of those categories. Neither company is "good" but nVidia's current strategy is rarely ever successful outside of a pure monopoly. And generally a horrible mistake when you have any sort of competition.

That's why a lot of people were hoping that Intel would become a 3rd player in the video card market. So far they are sticking strictly to midrange and low end segment. But if they acquired some top end engineers or maybe... recruited some good partners like EVGA, could they eventually aim for the top and put some REAL price pressures on both Nvidia and AMD?

 

[Blade-Runner]

That's why a lot of people were hoping that Intel would become a 3rd player in the video card market. So far they are sticking strictly to midrange and low end segment. But if they acquired some top end engineers or maybe... recruited some good partners like EVGA, could they eventually aim for the top and put some REAL price pressures on both Nvidia and AMD?

That would be the chef's kiss, Evga releasing a Titan class performance GPU for $800...nice giant fuck you to Nvidia.

 

[lopoetve]

That would be the chef's kiss, Evga releasing a Titan class performance GPU for $800...nice giant fuck you to Nvidia.

Engineering a GPU core is significantly different than engineering a card around an already designed GPU core. Ask S3, PowerVR, matrox, trident, cirrus logic, or even Raja himself.

 

[Decko87]

That would be the chef's kiss, Evga releasing a Titan class performance GPU for $800...nice giant fuck you to Nvidia.

I'll take thing's that will never happen for 2000 Alex.

 

[Blade-Runner]

Engineering a GPU core is significantly different than engineering a card around an already designed GPU core. Ask S3, PowerVR, matrox, trident, cirrus logic, or even Raja himself.

I meant an Evga card with an Intel engineered GPU.

I'll take thing's that will never happen for 2000 Alex.

Can always dream.

 

[ImJustinT]

I'm going to be upgrading from an HD7950 lol, I was thinking about a 4070 but I might just go for a 3090ti.

 

[madpistol]

From what I see, the GPU is actually pretty good. The price sucks, though.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

From what I see, the GPU is actually pretty good. The price sucks, though.

No one has an issue with performance or stability. It’s purely about pricing.

 

[NightReaver]

No one has an issue with performance or stability. It’s purely a pricing issue.

Yup. The only complaints about performance are mostly because of the price point. 12gb of vram and a gimped bus are very sketchy at $800+

 

[lopoetve]

Yup. The only complaints about performance are mostly because of the price point. 12gb of vram and a gimped bus are very sketchy at $800+

And even the gimped bus can be forgiven for the right performance at the right price. It always comes down to $$.

They could call it the 4095TI Titan - we’d laugh at the naming being out of order, but if the price to performance ratio was right, we’d buy them. And happily.

 

[madpistol]

And even the gimped bus can be forgiven for the right performance at the right price. It always comes down to $$.

They could call it the 4095TI Titan - we’d laugh at the naming being out of order, but if the price to performance ratio was right, we’d buy them. And happily.

I saw the 192-bit memory bus and was immediately like NOPE!!!

But... it outperforms a 3090 comfortably in most situations, even at 4K. That's absurd. I did not see that one coming. Nvidia sprinkled this card some some magic fairy dust.

 

[cygnus_x_1]

I bit the bullet and bought one. Picked up the MSI 3X OC 4070 TI. Reasoning was, on AMD 5600X/ASUS X570/2070 Super my newly purchased Samsung g9 49" curved was cooking the 2070 Super when playing MW2. Was trying to hold out for the 4080, but just can't pay over 1K for a gpu. this $800 was painful enough. Super happy with it running stock speeds/power for now, and getting 155-120 FPS in MW2 @ 5120x1440 @240Hz is perfect for me.

 

[GotNoRice]

I bit the bullet and bought one. Picked up the MSI 3X OC 4070 TI. Reasoning was, on AMD 5600X/ASUS X570/2070 Super my newly purchased Samsung g9 49" curved was cooking the 2070 Super when playing MW2. Was trying to hold out for the 4080, but just can't pay over 1K for a gpu. this $800 was painful enough. Super happy with it running stock speeds/power for now, and getting 155-120 FPS in MW2 @ 5120x1440 @240Hz is perfect for me.

Strictly in terms of GPU power, the 4070 Ti GPU should give you 3090 Ti levels of performance, so you should be good in that respect. However, 12GB is not a ton of VRAM when running at a high resolution. I'd be interested to hear what your VRAM utilization is in practice, and if you are nearing the limit.

 

[Blade-Runner]

Received an email from a local retailer in my region promoting a sale on 4080s and throwing in a 1000w PSU for the first 100 buyers. Reeks of desperation, and probably going to get worse as economies continue to implode from high inflation and rising interest rates.

 

[TheHig]

Yeah there will be more incentives for sure. Microcenter here is doing 50 off any CPU with Reference 6950xt which are now 699. Free DDR5 is still going with AM5 CPUs and the 7700x is down to 338 currently so If anyone has the room to splash on new stuff there are plenty of deals now and likely more ahead.

 

[cygnus_x_1]

Strictly in terms of GPU power, the 4070 Ti GPU should give you 3090 Ti levels of performance, so you should be good in that respect. However, 12GB is not a ton of VRAM when running at a high resolution. I'd be interested to hear what your VRAM utilization is in practice, and if you are nearing the limit.

I am only playing MW2 TDM these days, but for what i need, its perfect. 5120x1440, 240Hz, Ultra settings in graphics, in game, no load, appx 30% VRAM Usage, in game load with smoke on the screen, 66% VRAM usage. Being an ex reviewer, if there are any specific benches you would like to see, i could provide, within reason. aint noone got time for dat!!!

 

[funkydmunky]

I see 4070ti's on my Amazon (CAN) that are in the $850 range that ship only from China. They say they are a name brand (Gigabyte etc..) the rest are priced at the more appropriate $1150-1400+ CAD which would work out about right when compared to the US$. Anyone know whats up with these? It isn't like I had to dig. First page for "Nvidia 4070ti". I wouldn't touch it but looking for what others say.

 

[funkydmunky]

I am only playing MW2 TDM these days, but for what i need, its perfect. 5120x1440, 240Hz, Ultra settings in graphics, in game, no load, appx 30% VRAM Usage, in game load with smoke on the screen, 66% VRAM usage. Being an ex reviewer, if there are any specific benches you would like to see, i could provide, within reason. aint noone got time for dat!!!

Sure test anything recommended that is mainstream and is supposed to stress the 12GB RAM amount. I honestly can't see much of anything breaking as last gen had 10/12gig 3080/ti's that were massive sellers with 3070/ti's bringing in the bulk of sales and only holding 8GB. I would have loved it to be 16GB to at least match AMD's last gen, but that would have pushed it ti close to a 4080 as a bus width increase would have been needed as well.
On an aside AMD would have been so better off releasing the 7900XT with 12GB ($699) and going agressive in price, but couldn't when last gen was 256bit/16GB.

 

[pendragon1]

I see 4070ti's on my Amazon (CAN) that are in the $850 range that ship only from China. They say they are a name brand (Gigabyte etc..) the rest are priced at the more appropriate $1150-1400+ CAD which would work out about right when compared to the US$. Anyone know whats up with these? It isn't like I had to dig. First page for "Nvidia 4070ti". I wouldn't touch it but looking for what others say.

factory direct b-stock?! post a link so we can see what youre talkin aboot, eh

 

[Verado]

Ordered one. Hope Jensen chokes on my money and dies.