I said it was a shitty product, as in the whole package.You said it was a shitty card. I said it was a good card shittily priced.
"Good" isn't defined enough in the argument to apply your logic to it.
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I said it was a shitty product, as in the whole package.You said it was a shitty card. I said it was a good card shittily priced.
"Good" isn't defined enough in the argument to apply your logic to it.
Well, guess what? It's not!I said it was a shitty product, as in the whole package.
Of course. All else being equal in the current market, is it an equally good product from Nvidia?Lol. Too ambiguous to answer. It doesn't exist in a vacuum.
It's a very simple yes or no. Is a $1598 4080 an equally good card as a $1000 4080? Yes or no?
Yes, you chose to strawman to only one aspect of a product once you've realized that as a whole it would be less good if priced too high.It is not that simple. In your question, no, it's not equally as "good" because I'm forced to apply a price factor into the definition of "good." In the initial question, you said it was a shitty card, and I disagreed because I think it is a good performing card that has a terrible price. I removed the price factor in my definition of "good" in the initial assessment.
Yes, you chose to strawman to only one aspect of a product once you've realized that as a whole it would be less good if priced too high.
A product's price is its integral part. I didn't have to define anything as the product as a whole was discussed. I didn't mention performance or build quality for a reason, because those don't change with price. Product's market standing and desirability does, that's why a product's price is a crucial qualitative aspect. Special exemptions notwithstanding.How exactly am I "strawmanning" when you didn't define your terms? This is a YOU problem. You didn't say what you meant by "good" and "shitty." I, as the reader, am forced to guess, and evidently, I guessed wrong.
A product's price is its integral part. I didn't have to define anything as the product as a whole was discussed. I didn't mention performance or build quality for a reason, because those don't change with price. Product's market standing and desirability does, that's why a product's price is a crucial qualitative aspect. Special exemptions notwithstanding.
Likewise, the $900 7900XT is also generally considered a bad/pointless product.
And I for one don't give a flying fuck what you thinkI for one like that you're buying shitty products and giving Nvidia more R&D money to come up with something better in the future. We all benefit.
I agree, in RT the 4080 is priced right against the 4090.Wrong. It's a fantastic product, it's just expensive. Two different things: price and quality.
I'm sure their extremely high profit margin factors into that as well.We can divorce price just a bit from the product, it is easy to design a bridge it is hard to design a bridge that cost a reasonable price.
It is somewhat easy to make a 4080 performing card for nvidia, challenge is to make it for a good price. With the die size, memory bus width maybe they achieved and just has marvellous margin of maybe the yield of super pricey nvidia 5nm make it a mediocre one.
The 4090 is a 4K card.I think I am about to hit the cancel button on my FE 4080 at Best Buy.
Over my 3080 ti I would get the following increases (taken from techpowerup except for Dying Light 2 taken from digitalfoundry):
Control 4k RT
4080 32%
4090 97%
Watch Dogs Legion 4k RT
4080 38%
4090 76%
Dying Light 2 4k RT
4080 50%
4090 97%
Cyberpunk 2077 4k RT
4080 41%
4090 103%
Bottom line is the games where I would want or need a big perf increase over my 3080 ti, the 4090 really delivers so much more perf than is reflected in its price difference over the 4080.
The 4080 is bananas overkill for 98% of games at 1440p and will be CPU limited in plenty of games. In fact unless you have a top of the line CPU it will be CPU limited in most games. The 4080 is easily a 4K card except for ray tracing max settings such as the games I showed. The 4080 kind of ends up in no man's land for me and it's price makes no sense.The 4090 is a 4K card.
The 4080 is a card that can max anything at 1440p.
The 4080 shouldn’t be an option if you’re gaming at 4K and want the best performance.
I am not sure if there is much old 3xxx, very hard to find higher tier 3xxx new online at reasonable price or that the 4090 at that price point need a push, it is all sold out and would have had with a $1099 4080 imo.*Edit* Also lets not forget the whole strategy of trying to either push people up to the 4090 or to buy old 3xxx stock.
I mainly got it for the 2% games like 2077.The 4080 is bananas overkill for 98% of games at 1440p and will be CPU limited in plenty of games. In fact unless you have a top of the line CPU it will be CPU limited in most games. The 4080 is easily a 4K card except for ray tracing max settings such as the games I showed. The 4080 kind of ends up in no man's land for me and it's price makes no sense.
Talking about dreams here.And the 3080 was readily available under $1000 for how long during its life cycle exactly?
You do give enough to go out of your way to reply, darling.And I for one don't give a flying fuck what you think![]()
I have. With comprehension, though.Have you ever read a GPU review?
A $3000 4080 is a good product, got it.Here's some 4080 review samples showing that a price is not the integral part you think it is. Sure, it's a factor as to whether or not you buy it, but you can have an objectively good card priced poorly.
A $3000 to make 4080 would be a bad product a $400 to make 4080 sold $3000 I can see the debate around the good piece of design and execution sold too high and the distinction being madeA $3000 4080 is a good product, got it.
I have. With comprehension, though.
A $3000 4080 is a good product, got it.
A $3000 to make 4080 would be a bad product a $400 to make 4080 sold $3000 I can see the debate around the good piece of design and execution sold too high and the distinction being made
Nvidia isn’t selling frames this time around, they are selling RT. You can see only 25% in raw fps increase, but that jumps above 40% in RT and no comparison when using DLSS 3.0. A 4090 will require a PC rebuild of premium parts to alleviate the bottleneck, reducing your performance per dollar.In the techpowerup review they showed less than a 25% overall improvement over the 3080 TI at 1440p with a 5800x so it can come down to the CPU that you have to make a bigger or smaller difference. A 4080 in most games at native 1440p is just silly especially if you don't have the very fastest CPUs out there so it makes more sense to use DSR and play most games at 4K. For instance even with my 3080 TI there are only about two or three games that I even play at 1440p and that's because they have ray tracing and all of the rest I play at 4K. The way I look at it with a 3080 TI is do I want to spend 1200 bucks to get 30 to 50% more performance at 4k (DSR) or do I want to spend 1600 bucks to get 75 to 100% more performance? To me that's an easy question to answer as it's absolutely worth $400 more to get the vastly superior performance of the 4090.
With a 5800x3d hardware unboxed seem to have a much bigger gap, 189 avg, 150 1% min vs 137/111, +38%/+35%:In the techpowerup review they showed less than a 25% overall improvement over the 3080 TI at 1440p with a 5800x
During the presentation, Nvidia wanted us to focus on the green bars more than the gray ones.Sorry but they are still most certainly selling frames in rasterization as well as RT. The rasterization gap is still quite large over the 4080 if you have the proper CPU. But really you need the proper CPU to be running a 4080 also as games are getting more CPU demanding with ray tracing even. I'm doing a 13700k build now so the only card I would even personally consider would be the 4090 as it's $400 additional cost over the 4080 when you were already spending $1,200 is well worth it for the ray tracing for sure. Again for me personally the 4080 is just in no man's land especially at its price. I'm guessing that overdrive ray tracing update for Cyberpunk 2077 it's going to make the 4090 look a lot more useful too. I just can't stand the thought of spending $1,200 and having to compromise on settings in any game when for just $400 more I won't have to compromise for the foreseeable future.
Native resolution is 1440p but I only use that for the insanely demanding games with ray tracing such as cyberpunk 2077. All of the other games I use DSR to mostly play at 4K and even 5K for older games.During the presentation, Nvidia wanted us to focus on the green bars more than the gray ones.
What resolution you game at?
I have a 5800x3d, so it was greater than that. Yes, if you are still on anything less than a 5800x3d/AM5/Intel 13 any of these new GPU's really aren't worth it. You just won't have the CPU. Of course, at this point getting a 3080 12GB+ level card new is increasingly difficult, leaving pretty much only the 4080/7900xtx as the only 'new' choice to give one that level of performance.In the techpowerup review they showed less than a 25% overall improvement over the 3080 TI at 1440p with a 5800x so it can come down to the CPU that you have to make a bigger or smaller difference. A 4080 in most games at native 1440p is just silly especially if you don't have the very fastest CPUs out there so it makes more sense to use DSR and play most games at 4K. For instance even with my 3080 TI there are only about two or three games that I even play at 1440p and that's because they have ray tracing and all of the rest I play at 4K. The way I look at it with a 3080 TI is do I want to spend 1200 bucks to get 30 to 50% more performance at 4k (DSR) or do I want to spend 1600 bucks to get 75 to 100% more performance? To me that's an easy question to answer as it's absolutely worth $400 more to get the vastly superior performance of the 4090.
Exactly. Once the over priced 4070 is released, the 4080s will sell out. People will still think the 4090 is the card to get even thought they can’t get one and nothing with performance faster than the 3090Ti will be available.I have a 5800x3d, so it was greater than that. Yes, if you are still on anything less than a 5800x3d/AM5/Intel 13 any of these new GPU's really aren't worth it. You just won't have the CPU. Of course, at this point getting a 3080 12GB+ level card new is increasingly difficult, leaving pretty much only the 4080/7900xtx as the only 'new' choice to give one that level of performance.
I just built a partially new system, system in sig, but did a i9 13900k with 32GB DDR5 5600, and some other stuff plus parts from my current system mixed in. I had the RTX-3080 10GB, and it was good, but not great for 3840 X 1600res with Ultra game settings. I was so against getting a new nVidia 4000-Series card due to pricing, but thought the 4090 is at least a beast and truly a huge upgrade, but it's always out of stock.
So yesterday just for fun, was surfing the Best Buy website, yep 4090 out, but then also looked at the 4080 FE and it was in stock $1199, and I also had a very old $200 Gift Card in my wallet since a long time ago, used that too, and it was $999. Yes I wish I could've gotten the 4090, but it's so hard to get, plus it is another $500 higher or so. I am getting ripped for buying this card, everyone telling me what a terrible deal it is, for such little performance gain. and I don't disagree totally, yeah this card should be $999 tops, really should be $899, or just get the 4090. I understand that. But I got the 4080 FE and sticking with it for now.
What can my PC play now at what settings?
Alienware 38" Ultrawide 3840 X 1600res
i9 13900k
Z790 Motherboard
32GB DDR5-5600
RTX-4080 FE
I mostly play World of Warcraft at Ultra super settings, Halo Infinite, Destiny 2, might try New World MMO, and might get WarHammer 40k Darktide.
I finished the rebuild and ended up with:
Ryzen 9 7900X
Asus Prime X670E-Pro WiFi
32 GB Corsair Vengance DDR5-6400
2 TB Samsung M2 PCIE 4.0 HD
ASUS TUF GeForce 4080
Corsair ICU 4000 Case
EVGA 1000W PSU
It was a ridiculous amount of money that I spread out over two months but, easily the smoothest build I've ever done and a significant jump in performance. I decided to do Windows 11. I've played a little bit of Baldurs Gate 3, Modern Warfare and Darktide since it was finished. I can hear ever so slight coil whine but really with headphones on (even with them off) its barely noticable. Temps are great.
View attachment 538384
Very nice build! My next upgrade is replacing my 3900x with a 5950x and move up from W10 to W11. Probably after tax season.I finished the rebuild and ended up with:
Ryzen 9 7900X
Asus Prime X670E-Pro WiFi
32 GB Corsair Vengance DDR5-6400
2 TB Samsung M2 PCIE 4.0 HD
ASUS TUF GeForce 4080
Corsair ICU 4000 Case
EVGA 1000W PSU
It was a ridiculous amount of money that I spread out over two months but, easily the smoothest build I've ever done and a significant jump in performance. I decided to do Windows 11. I've played a little bit of Baldurs Gate 3, Modern Warfare and Darktide since it was finished. I can hear ever so slight coil whine but really with headphones on (even with them off) its barely noticable. Temps are great.
View attachment 538384