And they still wonder why linux isn't more popular.

travm

[H]ard|Gawd
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I am extremely new at Linux, but every time I think about it, I can't stop having "CLI or GTFO" feel to it...
If you research hardware and distros for what you want, it's usually pretty much seamless. If you don't, it can be an adventure in cli.
 

auntjemima

[H]ard DCOTM x2
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If you research hardware and distros for what you want, it's usually pretty much seamless. If you don't, it can be an adventure in cli.
No kidding. I bought a cisco usb wifi adapter once, just for use here and there and come to find out there are 3 revisions and only one works with Linux. That'll teach me. Oddly enough, they all work in windows.
 

Mazzspeed

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No kidding. I bought a cisco usb wifi adapter once, just for use here and there and come to find out there are 3 revisions and only one works with Linux. That'll teach me. Oddly enough, they all work in windows.
Not all Cisco is high end. Consumer grade products in many cases should really fall under the Linksys banner with their chipsets implemented depending on what's at the electronics wholesaler's at the time.

Sounds like a Broadcom thing
Broadcom or Realtek. I've seen plenty of perfectly good printers that work fine under Windows 7 but not Windows 10, MacOS won't support Nvidia hardware past a GTX670. Driver issues are an issue under all operating systems
 

auntjemima

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Not all Cisco is high end. Consumer grade products in many cases should really fall under the Linksys banner with their chipsets implemented depending on what's at the electronics wholesaler's at the time.
Well, I didn't buy it to be expensive. I bought it for $5 to usb occasionally here and there.

And I always hear about realtek issues in Linux, but I have to say, it's one of the only chips I haven't had issues with. Broadcom though.... Yeah, the worst.

Edit: gotta add. I have nothing but issues installing Nvidia drivers in Linux. I am probably missing something, but I can never get the drivers to install from the Nvidia website. I KNOW they are in the repo (but like .. under what name? Changes every time lol), but I figure if they are available from the Nvidia website, they should be installable in that format.

Probably are and I'm an idiot. Either way, seems like an Nvidia problem..
 

70 Polara

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 31, 2004
Messages
322
Whenever i use linux im constantly googling what should be simple stuff. On mint for example my mouse scroll wheel was super slow. Had to find some third party script just to change it. Windows you just search mouse.
The slow scroll speed is a classic complaint that I have seen on most Linux distros I have tried through the years! It's all the little stuff like this that adds up and made me quit dual-booting Windows/Linux a long time ago. I'm old and lazy and having to jump through hoops for something as basic as mouse scroll speed is insane. You shouldn't have to Google how to install imwheel just to fix something that should be included by default......
 
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Mazzspeed

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Edit: gotta add. I have nothing but issues installing Nvidia drivers in Linux. I am probably missing something, but I can never get the drivers to install from the Nvidia website. I KNOW they are in the repo (but like .. under what name? Changes every time lol), but I figure if they are available from the Nvidia website, they should be installable in that format.
You never, ever, install the drivers from the Nvidia site - In doing so you're 100% bypassing the package manager, which will definately result in problems as OGL libriaries get replaced with Nvidia libraries, etc.

You add the Launchpad PPA from here:

https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa

So, basically you open terminal (Ctrl+Alt+T), follow the instructions to add the PPA to your system; so highlight the commands as displayed on the Launchpad page to copy (without the need to actually select 'copy') and paste into terminal using the center mouse button as it's simply an awesome idea:

Code:
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:graphics-drivers/ppa
sudo apt update
sudo apt install nvidia-xxx

Where 'xxx' is the correct driver for your card. Alternatively you can substitute 'sudo apt install nvidia-xxx' for 'sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall'. Anthough I never use the autoinstall method.

That's it. So while people claim that terminal is harder, it's obvious the above procedure is actually very simple. I've used the above procedure under a number of distro's based on the Debian/Ubuntu package manager, and things just work - Stability is perfect provided you're not the kind of person that insists on running bleeding edge (and unstable) kernels.

As for Broadcom. I've actually had more success with Broadcom than Realtek in relation to drivers under Linux. Horses for courses I suppose.
 
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Mazzspeed

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The slow scroll speed is a classic complaint that I have seen on most Linux distros I have tried through the years! It's all the little stuff like this that adds up and made me quit dual-booting Windows/Linux a long time ago. I'm old and lazy and having to jump through hoops for something as basic as mouse scroll speed is insane. You shouldn't have to Google how to install imwheel just to fix something that should be included by default......
If you're using Wayland, you should be able to control scroll speed via the GUI. If you're using X11, sure you have to use terminal, but you have to use terminal under MacOS to write to NTFS filing systems, which is vastly more annoying.
 

Mazzspeed

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Previously BF games were the problem
Use Lutris. I play Battlefield IV nightly not a problem in the world, Origin launches and updates as well as it does under Windows. Battlefield V is listed as supported under Lutris, no problems reported.

https://lutris.net/games/battlefield-v/

The TwisterOS desktop on my Raspberry Pi400. At 2.5Ghz it's a surprisingly capable little machine. The popularity of hobbiest devices like the Raspberry Pi is creating demand of a Linux desktop:

6WdvdMl.png


A quick snap of my KDE Neon desktop:

HV5N3hA.png
 
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auntjemima

[H]ard DCOTM x2
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You never, ever, install the drivers from the Nvidia site - In doing so you're 100% bypassing the package manager, which will definately result in problems as OGL libriaries get replaced with Nvidia libraries, etc.

You add the Launchpad PPA from here:

https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa

So, basically you open terminal (Ctrl+Alt+T), follow the instructions to add the PPA to your system; so highlight the commands as displayed on the Launchpad page to copy (without the need to actually select 'copy') and paste into terminal using the center mouse button as it's simply an awesome idea:

Code:
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:graphics-drivers/ppa
sudo apt update
sudo apt install nvidia-xxx

Where 'xxx' is the correct driver for your card. Alternatively you can substitute 'sudo apt install nvidia-xxx' for 'sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall'. Anthough I never use the autoinstall method.

That's it. So while people claim that terminal is harder, it's obvious the above procedure is actually very simple. I've used the above procedure under a number of distro's based on the Debian/Ubuntu package manager, and things just work - Stability is perfect provided you're not the kind of person that insists on running bleeding edge (and unstable) kernels.

As for Broadcom. I've actually had more success with Broadcom than Realtek in relation to drivers under Linux. Horses for courses I suppose.
I totally get that I can install them that way. Which I do. I just want to know WHY I cannot install them directly from the OEM when they provide me a pretty little deb file to do so?

Seems pretty silly.
 

Mazzspeed

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I totally get that I can install them that way. Which I do. I just want to know WHY I cannot install them directly from the OEM when they provide me a pretty little deb file to do so?

Seems pretty silly.
Firstly, they're not packaged as a .deb installer, they essentially install using a .run script.

Secondly, these drivers are provided as is for power users that know how to correctly integrate the software into their system, they mostly exist these days for developers to package them for installation using their desired package manager. The reason no one installs directly from the Nvidia site anymore is because the procedure was always problematic due to the fact that there's more than one distro, therefore it's quicker and vastly easier just to let your package manager do the job it was intended to do. If you try to download drivers directly off the Nvidia site, Firefox will actually provide a warning against the download of such files.

EDIT: In the case of KDE Neon, the command 'sudo apt update' isn't needed, the update is performed as soon as the PPA is added. So you just add the PPA, then install the software. Once you get used to it, the idea of downloading random .exe and .msi files to install becomes somewhat backwards.
 
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auntjemima

[H]ard DCOTM x2
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Firstly, they're not packaged as a .deb installer, they essentially install using a .run script.

Secondly, these drivers are provided as is for power users that know how to correctly integrate the software into their system, they mostly exist these days for developers to package them for installation using their desired package manager. The reason no one installs directly from the Nvidia site anymore is because the procedure was always problematic due to the fact that there's more than one distro, therefore it's quicker and vastly easier just to let your package manager do the job it was intended to do. If you try to download drivers directly off the Nvidia site, Firefox will actually provide a warning against the download of such files.

EDIT: In the case of KDE Neon, the command 'sudo apt update' isn't needed, the update is performed as soon as the PPA is added. So you just add the PPA, then install the software. Once you get used to it, the idea of downloading random .exe and .msi files to install becomes somewhat backwards.
Weird reference the .run extension. I could have swore they used to be in deb format and that "Linux 64bit" wasn't the only option, but that Ubuntu was in their dropdown. Not sure when they changed it.

I don't use Firefox.

So, here we run into a conundrum for new users, which seems to be the direction this thread took. A new user is going to do what's familiar. Now, this is something that will change over time, sure, but any new user to Linux is going to want to browse their manufacturer and download the provided driver.

If Nvidia offers it, I would expect it to work. That said, when I did download my deb file (I'll find one somewhere to prove it lol), it gave me a black screen on boot up. I repaired it via the terminal, which I am more than capable of doing, but in the end the average person is going to be lost.

I don't see why Linux users just blindly, willingly or otherwise, brush off concerns that new users have. Downloading a driver directly from an OEM (so you can stop with the "random exe and msi files thing... I haven't seen a fucking MSI file in about a million years), it should install and function.
 

Mazzspeed

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So, here we run into a conundrum for new users, which seems to be the direction this thread took. A new user is going to do what's familiar. Now, this is something that will change over time, sure, but any new user to Linux is going to want to browse their manufacturer and download the provided driver.
Once again, we're back to this idea that Linux is a Windows replacement, which it is not - Windows is not the benchmark all operating systems must aspire to and Linux is Linux.

As with anything new and different, you're going to make mistakes, and in making those mistakes you will learn. You did so when you first started using Windows, you will do so when you start using Linux. We all have the capacity to learn new things and stating the reality of a situation is not brushing anyone off.

I offered a detailed guide to installing Nvidia drivers under any Ubuntu based distro including KDE Neon with the pretence that people could learn something new resulting in a trouble free system. There's nothing illogical about it, in fact once the PPA is added you can install the drivers via the operating systems GUI under settings in many cases.
 

auntjemima

[H]ard DCOTM x2
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Once again, we're back to this idea that Linux is a Windows replacement, which it is not - Windows is not the benchmark all operating systems must aspire to and Linux is Linux.

As with anything new and different, you're going to make mistakes, and in making those mistakes you will learn. You did so when you first started using Windows, you will do so when you start using Linux. We all have the capacity to learn new things and stating the reality of a situation is not brushing anyone off.

I offered a detailed guide to installing Nvidia drivers under any Ubuntu based distro including KDE Neon with the pretence that people could learn something new resulting in a trouble free system. There's nothing illogical about it, in fact once the PPA is added you can install the drivers via the operating systems GUI under settings in many cases.
Let's make this simple for you. I can download drivers for every major windows revision from Nvidia and install it. I can do the same for MacOS.

So the two major desktop OSs offer this. So why be different just got the sake of being different? Congratulations, you're different and the way the world has learned to do things doesn't work. I can't wait to learn all those things a second time and different method just because some neckbeard has decided "it's the way".
 

Mazzspeed

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Let's make this simple for you. I can download drivers for every major windows revision from Nvidia and install it. I can do the same for MacOS.

So the two major desktop OSs offer this. So why be different just got the sake of being different? Congratulations, you're different and the way the world has learned to do things doesn't work. I can't wait to learn all those things a second time and different method just because some neckbeard has decided "it's the way".
You can download drivers for MacOS supporting up to the 670 series of graphics cards, no later. So your point regarding MacOS is moot as Nvidia drivers are no longer supported under MacOS.

Obviously your original point of having trouble installing Nvidia drivers was no more than bait to highlight that Linux does not operate like Windows. This is where Linux users state that if you want the Windows experience, run Windows. Likewise, this is where Windows users unjustly claim Linux users aren't helpful due to the fact the Linux user stated the reality of the situation.

Everything's been explained, the process is far from difficult, you're running out of rebuttals so you're getting nasty, I'm not here to argue - So this is where I nope out of discussion regarding this specific topic, as there's nothing left to discuss. You've stated you're unwilling to learn new things in earlier posts, so just use Windows.
 

GoldenTiger

Fully [H]
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Messages
26,049
You can download drivers for MacOS supporting up to the 670 series of graphics cards, no later. So your point regarding MacOS is moot as Nvidia drivers are no longer supported under MacOS.

Obviously your original point of having trouble installing Nvidia drivers was no more than bait to highlight that Linux does not operate like Windows. This is where Linux users state that if you want the Windows experience, run Windows. Likewise, this is where Windows users unjustly claim Linux users aren't helpful due to the fact the Linux user stated the reality of the situation.

Everything's been explained, the process is far from difficult, you're running out of rebuttals so you're getting nasty, I'm not here to argue - So this is where I nope out of discussion regarding this specific topic, as there's nothing left to discuss. You've stated you're unwilling to learn new things in earlier posts, so just use Windows.
:ROFLMAO: You've been nothing but combative and dismissive the whole time. That's why I noped out awhile back ;). Windows is the gold standard of os for desktops... If Linux wants to gain any acceptance, basics must work in a rational way.
 

auntjemima

[H]ard DCOTM x2
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:ROFLMAO: You've been nothing but combative and dismissive the whole time. That's why I noped out awhile back ;). Windows is the gold standard of os for desktops... If Linux wants to gain any acceptance, basics must work in a rational way.
As you can tell from the entire thread, all Linux users that decided to comment had the same attitude lol
 

Mazzspeed

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:ROFLMAO: You've been nothing but combative and dismissive the whole time. That's why I noped out awhile back ;). Windows is the gold standard of os for desktops... If Linux wants to gain any acceptance, basics must work in a rational way.
Not only is this comment blatantly false, but like all of your comments in literally every thread, they don't really do anything to to contribute to discussion in any way whatsoever. So thanks for your perspective that Windows = Good, Linux = Bad; I'll be sure to file it in the round file.

As you can tell from the entire thread, all Linux users that decided to comment had the same attitude lol
Well, this is the Linux sub forum. Just to highlight the obvious.
 

GoldenTiger

Fully [H]
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Not only is this comment blatantly false, but like all of your comments in literally every thread, they don't really do anything to to contribute to discussion in any way whatsoever. So thanks for your perspective that Windows = Good, Linux = Bad; I'll be sure to file it in the round file.


Well, this is the Linux sub forum. Just to highlight the obvious.
Thanks for your input.
 

DrezKill

Gawd
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Messages
618
I've not tried linux in a long time, but thought it got a long way in user experience since I last tried it. Then I learned this is how you put an icon on the desktop in ubuntu in 2022. In windows you could drag and drop, or use send to desktop. since 1995.

Oh, and also it fails to detect my TV as a legitimate display, and only allows 1024x768 as the highest resolution. Great, now I have to start from scratch and install windows to actually make this HTPC usable.
Using Manjaro Linux with KDE Plasma 5, I can just drag something to the desktop and immediately get a few choices such as "Move Here," "Copy Here," "Link Here," "Add Icon," etc. So I can just grab a program from say the start menu, drag it to the desktop, and now I have an icon on the desktop I can launch the program from. Or I can grab a folder from the Dolphin file browser and drag to the desktop, and be presented with the following options:
20220717_062808.jpg

Just a couple of examples.


I haven't had any issues with TV-out via HDMI either (the TV is tried it with is a Samsung LN37B650).

In the KDE Plasma interface...I believe one can just right-click an application from the start menu and select 'Add to desktop'.
I can confirm this as well.

Adding shortcuts to the desktop is one of the simplest things you should have to do and yet you have to jump through hoops to do it.
Not with Plasma you don't.

the install process is too complex for the average consumer
Pretty easy and straightforward process with the Calamares installer, not any more difficult than the Windows Setup program.

I think Linux is easily a daily driver. I also think it's really polished and I find it pretty easy to handle day in and day out.
I used to main Windows (last one I mained was Win7), and use Linux as a secondary/fucking-around-with OS. Now I'm the opposite. I main Linux, and Windows is just for playing video games, or running Windows-only programs (that I don't bother to run in a VM).

Secondly, as an advanced user that uses my PC for work I have few problems with Libre Office.
I never had any problems using OpenOffice then LibreOffice for school and work purposes. Even before that I wasn't using Microsoft Office, I was using shit like Corel Wordperfect. I always kept Office around when I was in school, so that I could say check a paper for college in Word before I handed the assignment in, to make sure it looked right and opened properly. After I graduated from college though, I never used any Microsoft Office product again.

is like calling MacOS Linux
Well MacOS is based on BSD which is more closely related to UNIX than even Linux is, but I know what you were trying to say.

We'll see if steam deck helps.
I got to mess around with a friend's Steam Deck for 11 days while he was outta town, and I've been very surprised by how well so many games work on it. I really do hope that Steam Deck helps bring even more improvements to gaming on Linux, which is already in an incredible place. I know people who rather than moving to Win10 from Win7 for gaming, they instead play DX12 games on Linux.
 

Mazzspeed

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I never had any problems using OpenOffice then LibreOffice for school and work purposes. Even before that I wasn't using Microsoft Office, I was using shit like Corel Wordperfect. I always kept Office around when I was in school, so that I could say check a paper for college in Word before I handed the assignment in, to make sure it looked right and opened properly. After I graduated from college though, I never used any Microsoft Office product again.
Wordperfect is still used in legal circles. I've got a number of clients that use it every single day.

Well MacOS is based on BSD which is more closely related to UNIX than even Linux is, but I know what you were trying to say.
Actually, MacOS is based on the Mach kernel, which is a (now) distant descendant of BSD. Technically speaking, Linux has stronger roots to UNIX, the only difference is that due to the fact that Linux is a collaborative effort it's not registered with The Open Group. Apple are registered with The Open Group so they can claim to be based on UNIX:

https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/apple.htm
 

DogsofJune

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
4,238
Use Lutris. I play Battlefield IV nightly not a problem in the world, Origin launches and updates as well as it does under Windows. Battlefield V is listed as supported under Lutris, no problems reported.

https://lutris.net/games/battlefield-v/

The TwisterOS desktop on my Raspberry Pi400. At 2.5Ghz it's a surprisingly capable little machine. The popularity of hobbiest devices like the Raspberry Pi is creating demand of a Linux desktop:

View attachment 492449

A quick snap of my KDE Neon desktop:

View attachment 492445
That TwisterOS looks fun. I might give that a whirl
 

auntjemima

[H]ard DCOTM x2
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Messages
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TwisterOS is really good and comes with a vast number of applications pre installed. It craps all over Raspberry Pi OS.

When I installed 32bit piOS that came on my little canakit usb it came with TONS of apps, but I was poking around and saw a 64bit version and installed that. No apps. Yikes.

Anyway, I'm going to try TwisterOS.
 

Mazzspeed

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I still use IRC a lot regarding retro communities. I decided to see if the BitchX IRC client would compile on my Pi400, it compiled perfectly and gives the UNIX IRC feels:

4VDSPg8.png


When I installed 32bit piOS that came on my little canakit usb it came with TONS of apps, but I was poking around and saw a 64bit version and installed that. No apps. Yikes.
You can also upgrade to the 64bit kernel regarding TwisterOS, but as you found I run 32bit for software compatibility - And I've got a tonne of software installed on this system. I use a 500GB USB 3.0 connected SSD as my boot drive, makes for more capacity and an overall more responsive experience.
 

auntjemima

[H]ard DCOTM x2
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I still use IRC a lot regarding retro communities. I decided to see if the BitchX IRC client would compile on my Pi400, it compiled perfectly and gives the UNIX IRC feels:

View attachment 492725


You can also upgrade to the 64bit kernel regarding TwisterOS, but as you found I run 32bit for software compatibility - And I've got a tonne of software installed on this system. I use a 500GB USB 3.0 connected SSD as my boot drive, makes for more capacity and an overall more responsive experience.
Hmm. I was sure my guide said I couldn't install it to a usb port. But now I'll look into it.
 

Mazzspeed

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Hmm. I was sure my guide said I couldn't install it to a usb port. But now I'll look into it.
You can with the latest firmware, which you should automatically have assuming you keep it updated.

Do a 'sudo apt update' followed by 'sudo apt upgrade' to make sure the firmware is updated.
 
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auntjemima

[H]ard DCOTM x2
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You can with the latest firmware, which you should automatically have assuming you keep it updated.

Do a 'sudo apt update' followed by 'sudo apt upgrade' to make sure the firmware is updated.
Ok, maybe this is a ridiculous question. But. Why would the linux update status have anything to with being able to install to an SSD? Like.... Does that command update the pi hardware firmware as well?
 

Mazzspeed

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Ok, maybe this is a ridiculous question. But. Why would the linux update status have anything to with being able to install to an SSD? Like.... Does that command update the pi hardware firmware as well?
The upgrade command updates the OS, any software installed via apt, and the firmware of any devices with updates available. This is also the case regarding UEFI firmware under x86/64.
 

auntjemima

[H]ard DCOTM x2
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The upgrade command updates the OS, any software installed via apt, and the firmware of any devices with updates available. This is also the case regarding UEFI firmware under x86/64.
No. Shit. I knew it updated the apps and kernel, but had no idea it would update hardware firmware. I guess I should have known that, as it will update for spectre patches.
 

cjcox

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Tempted not to post, so as to not feed the troll that started all of this on a Linux forum, but on some distros, an "update" gets you just software patches (though CPU mitigations are also handled there) and "upgrade" is used to take you to next version (point release or greater) of that distribution. You would use the fwupdmgr to "safely" (so you can choose) get firmware updates for items of your system (where supported). That includes BIOS, board/card firmwares and other devices. Also assumes UEFI.
 

IceDigger

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Messages
11,732
I have been using Linux Lite as my main OS for home and work for the past year and love it!

The only grip I have is with vmware workstation and it not working with the latest kernels. PITA to get working when you upgrade a kernel.

XFCE 4 Life Y0!

252-2epqhv_s.jpg
 

mullet

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
1,680
I am liking Linux more and more. I still have win 7 for offline programs, I still use.

I don't understand the pissing contest you guys get it, thanks god there is Linux out there and it's free.

If there was a version or Linux I could run all of my programs on and all my games I would gladly pay 200 bucks a year for that.
 

Bowman15

[H]ard|Gawd
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Convenience = the average user.

If you want Linux to stay second tier in the desktop space then by all means the majority will keep using Windows/ipads/MAC...

But that misses the point of the entire thread then...
 
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