AMD to Support DDR5, LPDDR5, and PCI-Express gen 5.0 by 2022, Intel First to Market with DDR5

[erek]

Man, and on the heels of Ryzen 4000 which has a decent IPC boost. Looks like some exciting years of upgrades to come?

"AMD "Zen 4" will see a transition to a new silicon fabrication process, likely TSMC 5 nm-class. It will be an inflection point for the company from an I/O standpoint, as it sees the introduction of DDR5 memory support across enterprise and desktop platforms, LPDDR5 on the mobile platform, and PCI-Express gen 5.0 across the board. Besides a generational bandwidth doubling, PCIe gen 5.0 is expected to introduce several industry-standard features that help with hyper-scalability in the enterprise segment, benefiting compute clusters with multiple scalar processors, such as AMD's CDNA2. Intel introduced many of these features with its proprietary CXL interconnect. AMD's upcoming "Zen 3" microarchitecture, scheduled for within 2020 with market presence in 2021, is expected to stick with DDR4, LPDDR4x, and PCI-Express gen 4.0 standards. DDR5 will enable data-rates ranging between 3200 to 8400 MHz, densities such as single-rank 32 GB UDIMMs, and a few new physical-layer features such as same-bank refresh."

https://www.techpowerup.com/266316/...n-5-0-by-2022-intel-first-to-market-with-ddr5

 

[JAB Creations]

• DDR5 is a guarantee on Socket AM5 for the most obvious reasons.
• PCI-Express 5.0 I imagine would be mid-socket AM5 as in my experience they've introduced all versions except for PCI-Express 1.0 itself at mid-point for each socket.
• 5nm I would imagine would be a safe bet for AM5 processors. Their IPC is still a little behind relatively speaking so to avoid getting cut back down to $2 a share I can only imagine them sticking with advanced nodes which in turn...
• ...in turn means more staggered releases which sucks though that is the nature of the beast when dealing with anti-capitalist crony Intel.
• I imagine SMT4 might debut on server processors and be cut down to SMT2 for consumers if it happens with the debut of AM5.
• I hope 8GB is the absolute minimum RAM capacity. I still come across 4GB laptops and those people are not running some RAM-respecting operating systems.

I really want to see AMD continue to focus on IPC and I think they will. The markets are all screwed up with Intel still pulling serious anti-competitive BS to keep AMD down even though Intel's chips are hot, insecure and their motherboards lack upgradability so Intel can rack in more cash from all the Intel chips on those boards - people keep buying that junk! It's a damn good thing AMD is focused on long term growth and they're not sitting around idle.

 

[Dayaks]

All I want is a decent graphics APU in a surface pro.

They are hammering out gen after gen. It’s crazy how stagnant Intel is in comparison.

 

[Spartacus09]

All I want is a decent graphics APU in a surface pro.

They are hammering out gen after gen. It’s crazy how stagnant Intel is in comparison.

These things are the bane of my existence at work, the execs love them but the freaking mac-esque built in storage, ram, etc thats not repairable cuts my groove hard.
I finally convinced our CEO to use a dell 7370 with a touch screen, at least the SSD is removable so we don't have to build his machine from scratch if the thing goes out (had 3 surfaces fuck up in 4 years for one reason or another).

 

[Nebell]

These things are the bane of my existence at work, the execs love them but the freaking mac-esque built in storage, ram, etc thats not repairable cuts my groove hard.
I finally convinced our CEO to use a dell 7370 with a touch screen, at least the SSD is removable so we don't have to build his machine from scratch if the thing goes out (had 3 surfaces fuck up in 4 years for one reason or another).

People at my work use OneNote with cloud storage and they save their computer settings on a monthly basis (most do). If their system crash, most of it is easily recoverable.

 

[N4CR]

Their [AMD] IPC is still a little behind relatively speaking

This is the fourth or fifth time you've made this claim recently and it's obvious you have no idea what IPC is, because it's an absolutely
incorrect statement.

 

[Spartacus09]

People at my work use OneNote with cloud storage and they save their computer settings on a monthly basis (most do). If their system crash, most of it is easily recoverable.

We do too, we have carbonite for a full crash prep, everything else is in google file stream.
However he's a mail hoarder and outlook user with custom view settings, so we have to set back up all his settings and PSTs.
He also has a specific desktop config, and bookmark set that he uses (which syncs with his google account at least).

I've got PSTD from working with outlook and its limitations with gmail.

 

[TheSlySyl]

I'm really curious how the infinity fabric is gonna work with much, much higher bandwidth RAM.
Not enough that I'll upgrade anytime soon unless DDR5 ram prices are insanely cheap.

 

[Lakados]

I am looking forward to seeing what manufacturers are going to do with PCEe 5, I am really hoping we see some big changes for GPU design around that time to actually use that bandwidth.

 

[Furious_Styles]

I am looking forward to seeing what manufacturers are going to do with PCEe 5, I am really hoping we see some big changes for GPU design around that time to actually use that bandwidth.

I'd be surprised if they did. PCI-e bandwidth seems like it's always a gen or so ahead of what's used for GPUs.

 

[Lakados]

I'd be surprised if they did. PCI-e bandwidth seems like it's always a gen or so ahead of what's used for GPUs.

I would be too, but MCM based cards have the capability to use a lot of bandwidth (looking at my Tesla's) and they could certainly see an improvement from more bandwidth, but as there are no consumer grade MCM packages at this point much of that will be wasted as the consumer stuff barely taxes the PCIe 3 let alone 4 or 5.

 

[defaultluser]

This isn't really telling us anything we didn't already know:

Availability for Zen 3 will ramp-up by Q1 2021. We would expect Zen 4 to launch a little over a year later on a next-generation processes node, (so will take two years between major process nodes.)

AMD has already confirmed that AM5 will support DDR5, and that it will eventual support PCIe 5 is a given!

I just hope AMD has a better plan this time around for running Ryzen ultra-portable APUs on LP-DDR4X for the foreseeable future! Maybe adding DDR4 backwards-compatibility to the die this time?

 

[Deleted member 82943]

• DDR5 is a guarantee on Socket AM5 for the most obvious reasons.
• PCI-Express 5.0 I imagine would be mid-socket AM5 as in my experience they've introduced all versions except for PCI-Express 1.0 itself at mid-point for each socket.
• 5nm I would imagine would be a safe bet for AM5 processors. Their IPC is still a little behind relatively speaking so to avoid getting cut back down to $2 a share I can only imagine them sticking with advanced nodes which in turn...
• ...in turn means more staggered releases which sucks though that is the nature of the beast when dealing with anti-capitalist crony Intel.
• I imagine SMT4 might debut on server processors and be cut down to SMT2 for consumers if it happens with the debut of AM5.
• I hope 8GB is the absolute minimum RAM capacity. I still come across 4GB laptops and those people are not running some RAM-respecting operating systems.

I really want to see AMD continue to focus on IPC and I think they will. The markets are all screwed up with Intel still pulling serious anti-competitive BS to keep AMD down even though Intel's chips are hot, insecure and their motherboards lack upgradability so Intel can rack in more cash from all the Intel chips on those boards - people keep buying that junk! It's a damn good thing AMD is focused on long term growth and they're not sitting around idle.

Yeah, they will likely keep milking this gravy train like they did with the k8 line and putting the memory controller on chip and all the awesome that that gave them -- the question is what do they do next, do they have the in-house talent to come up with the next big thing?

 

[Lakados]

Yeah, they will likely keep milking this gravy train like they did with the k8 line and putting the memory controller on chip and all the awesome that that gave them -- the question is what do they do next, do they have the in-house talent to come up with the next big thing?

They likely do, the design stuff doesn't require a huge team just a dedicated one so having the man power I am sure is a thing and for the next while they just need to work in improving efficiency with their existing setup they don't need to reinvent the whole chip. Their biggest issues at this stage are their software side and their chipsets, they need some serious help in the programming departments and I am nervously anticipating what VIA can bring to the table for them on the chipsets.

 

[Lakados]

• DDR5 is a guarantee on Socket AM5 for the most obvious reasons.
• PCI-Express 5.0 I imagine would be mid-socket AM5 as in my experience they've introduced all versions except for PCI-Express 1.0 itself at mid-point for each socket.
• 5nm I would imagine would be a safe bet for AM5 processors. Their IPC is still a little behind relatively speaking so to avoid getting cut back down to $2 a share I can only imagine them sticking with advanced nodes which in turn...
• ...in turn means more staggered releases which sucks though that is the nature of the beast when dealing with anti-capitalist crony Intel.
• I imagine SMT4 might debut on server processors and be cut down to SMT2 for consumers if it happens with the debut of AM5.
• I hope 8GB is the absolute minimum RAM capacity. I still come across 4GB laptops and those people are not running some RAM-respecting operating systems.

I really want to see AMD continue to focus on IPC and I think they will. The markets are all screwed up with Intel still pulling serious anti-competitive BS to keep AMD down even though Intel's chips are hot, insecure and their motherboards lack upgradability so Intel can rack in more cash from all the Intel chips on those boards - people keep buying that junk! It's a damn good thing AMD is focused on long term growth and they're not sitting around idle.

Most of us don't have a choice on the Intel/AMD side of things AMD is not physically capable of manufacturing enough chips to meet demand and we don't have the luxury of waiting. AMD gets shared time on one of 3 fabs that are capable of making their stuff, Intel is running 15 24/7 pumping out theirs and still can't make them fast enough which is why you don't see many OEM's offering the AMD stuff as their mainline machines. What I am most interested in is Intel's actual response to the 4000 series when those come out. This round obviously goes to AMD on just about every front and Intel isn't going to take that lying down I expect to see a great deal of shiny things in the near future from both parties.

 

[N4CR]

Most of us don't have a choice on the Intel/AMD side of things AMD is not physically capable of manufacturing enough chips to meet demand and we don't have the luxury of waiting. AMD gets shared time on one of 3 fabs that are capable of making their stuff, Intel is running 15 24/7 pumping out theirs and still can't make them fast enough which is why you don't see many OEM's offering the AMD stuff as their mainline machines. What I am most interested in is Intel's actual response to the 4000 series when those come out. This round obviously goes to AMD on just about every front and Intel isn't going to take that lying down I expect to see a great deal of shiny things in the near future from both parties.

Intel is more capacity constrained relatively than AMD. They have compression on 14nm node and are converting some of their 10nm meme mode fabs back to 14nm for this reason. AMD just had even more capacity free up as Apple moves to a new node so really AMD isn't node restricted and is getting basically what they want to sell from TSMC to a point now (better than before).
Both have/had supply constraints but Intel is doing much worse here relative to usual.
You're more seeing market resistance, intelbux, intel designs squashing AMD laptops because free shit so no good GPUs for AMD etc. Shit takes time.

 

[Deleted member 89137]

These things are the bane of my existence at work, the execs love them but the freaking mac-esque built in storage, ram, etc thats not repairable cuts my groove hard.
I finally convinced our CEO to use a dell 7370 with a touch screen, at least the SSD is removable so we don't have to build his machine from scratch if the thing goes out (had 3 surfaces fuck up in 4 years for one reason or another).

Dell's are much better for repairs than surfaces. They design them so you can replace basically everything on site, and with their service plans they will send a tech out same or next business day to replace whatever needs to be replaced. It's usually next business day as they never have the parts on hand.
In terms of laptops, Intel still dominates the market. Would be nice to see that change as AMD actually seems to have a decent offering with the zen2 laptops.

 

[Lakados]

Dell's are much better for repairs than surfaces. They design them so you can replace basically everything on site, and with their service plans they will send a tech out same or next business day to replace whatever needs to be replaced. It's usually next business day as they never have the parts on hand.
In terms of laptops, Intel still dominates the market. Would be nice to see that change as AMD actually seems to have a decent offering with the zen2 laptops.

That would be nice and yeah Dell makes their stuff easily repairable in the business/enterprise line, with long term part availability and a healthy supply of 3'rd parties for anything that falls outside the warranty ranges. I would love to see some solid AMD offerings for laptops but I am not sure I am going to be buying anything first gen on that, the EPYC servers I have are keeping me a little gun shy on AMD's drivers. I have had issues to date with them and while it is safe to call them a joint AMD/MS issue AMD has not made it easy, little things like you may have to roll back your AMD chipset to install this MS update then after the update install this version of the chipset driver to keep things stable. sort of stuff.

 

[JAB Creations]

Most of us don't have a choice on the Intel/AMD side of things AMD is not physically capable of manufacturing enough chips to meet demand...

I built my 3800X rig and my finances didn't allow it until the week before Christmas - a time I would never intentionally wait to buy parts and I still got what I needed/wanted. Nothing of what you said suggests any legitimate reason to buy Intel because of shortages of AMD.

This is the fourth or fifth time you've made this claim recently and it's obvious you have no idea what IPC is, because it's an absolutely
incorrect statement.

Pray tell, allow me a moment to fetch a listening device so I can hear you from all the way up on that horse.

 

[Lakados]

I built my 3800X rig and my finances didn't allow it until the week before Christmas - a time I would never intentionally wait to buy parts and I still got what I needed/wanted. Nothing of what you said suggests any legitimate reason to buy Intel because of shortages of AMD.



Pray tell, allow me a moment to fetch a listening device so I can hear you from all the way up on that horse.

View attachment 241229

Intel sells some 60 million CPU’s per year, AMD sold record numbers at like 5 million. AMD can’t physically meet that demand so if the entire world woke up tomorrow and said I’m not buying Intel they would have to wait a very long time to buy something.

 

[Grimlakin]

Intel sells some 60 million CPU’s per year, AMD sold record numbers at like 5 million. AMD can’t physically meet that demand so if the entire world woke up tomorrow and said I’m not buying Intel they would have to wait a very long time to buy something.

Ahhhh so your statement is a guess. Based on your deep personal understanding of AMD's supply chain. Got it.

Not like you don't have to wait a month for Intel systems... oh wait you do.... or nearly 2 months for storage... oh wait you do... (recent server and storage enterprise orders.)

I think AMD would be able to have competitive timelines if demand spiked hard.

 

[Krazy925]

Intel sells some 60 million CPU’s per year, AMD sold record numbers at like 5 million. AMD can’t physically meet that demand so if the entire world woke up tomorrow and said I’m not buying Intel they would have to wait a very long time to buy something.

If everyone woke up and needed a chip one day we'd fall about 7,700,000,000 without any chips leftover at all.

Worst tangent of the day award.

 

[Lakados]

Ahhhh so your statement is a guess. Based on your deep personal understanding of AMD's supply chain. Got it.

Not like you don't have to wait a month for Intel systems... oh wait you do.... or nearly 2 months for storage... oh wait you do... (recent server and storage enterprise orders.)

I think AMD would be able to have competitive timelines if demand spiked hard.

They physically can't, there are 3 plants in the world capable of producing AMD's 7nm chips, those 3 fabs are used by AMD for their CPU's and GPU's as well as nVidia, Apple, VIA, Tesla, and a hand full of others including Intel, Intel has 15, 14+++nm plants churning out their chips and they still can't meet the demand. The facilities don't exist for AMD to spread that gap, it's not a question of willpower, or finances, or ability, it is a physical limitation based on global manufacturing capabilities. Could this change, sure but it would cost TSMC hundreds of billions and the better part of 2 decades.

 

[Lakados]

If everyone woke up and needed a chip one day we'd fall about 7,700,000,000 without any chips leftover at all.

Worst tangent of the day award.

No what I was saying is that AMD despite having the better processors is not capable of meeting anything close to current demand so people complaining why they don't see more OEM systems and such with AMD based processors in the mainstream isn't some Intel plot or global conspiracy it is a physical lack of capability on AMD's part to meet demand. Dell alone sold 12 million Intel CPU based systems last year. AMD last year had their highest sales year that year at just shy of 5 million CPU's sold, AMD churning out their CPU's as fast as they can isn't able to build enough in a year to cover a single major OEM. Dell, HP, Lenovo, and ASUS aren't going to be able to design and launch a mainstream AMD product and display it predominantly if they can't be guaranteed a decent supply.

 

[Krazy925]

No what I was saying is that AMD despite having the better processors is not capable of meeting anything close to current demand so people complaining why they don't see more OEM systems and such with AMD based processors in the mainstream isn't some Intel plot or global conspiracy it is a physical lack of capability on AMD's part to meet demand. Dell alone sold 12 million Intel CPU based systems last year. AMD last year had their highest sales year that year at just shy of 5 million CPU's sold, AMD churning out their CPU's as fast as they can isn't able to build enough in a year to cover a single major OEM. Dell, HP, Lenovo, and ASUS aren't going to be able to design and launch a mainstream AMD product and display it predominantly if they can't be guaranteed a decent supply.

Then say that next time, dude.

Also again, you don't know what AMD's supply chain looks like.

Last years numbers are just that, last years numbers, and has been stated above, much has changed in the supply chain recently.

Intel also had long wait times because of slow shipping 14nm chips.

What you're talking about is historical data and what Grimlakin is future growth. AMD has much more room for growth.

 

[Lakados]

Then say that next time, dude.

Also again, you don't know what AMD's supply chain looks like.

Last years numbers are just that, last years numbers, and has been stated above, much has changed in the supply chain recently.

Intel also had long wait times because of slow shipping 14nm chips.

What you're talking about is historical data and what Grimlakin is future growth. AMD has much more room for growth.

Yeah some when Apple gets off 7nm and transitions over to the 5nm that will free up a huge chunk on the fabs but at that same time Intel will be buying a good chunk of that time to build their discrete GPU's as Intel has already announced their partnership with TSMC at the 7nm node for them, so they won't be able to increase it by a huge margin to my knowledge TSMC doesn't have any new 7nm plants in production but it's not something I keep up on immensely so there very well could be. But until more plants are built or others move off the 7nm nodes AMD is going to have their back against a wall as far as increased production goes. But in a generation or 2 they are going to have the same problem once they try to move things to 5nm.

 

[Krazy925]

Yeah some when Apple gets off 7nm and transitions over to the 5nm that will free up a huge chunk on the fabs but at that same time Intel will be buying a good chunk of that time to build their discrete GPU's as Intel has already announced their partnership with TSMC at the 7nm node for them, so they won't be able to increase it by a huge margin to my knowledge TSMC doesn't have any new 7nm plants in production but it's not something I keep up on immensely so there very well could be. But until more plants are built or others move off the 7nm nodes AMD is going to have their back against a wall as far as increased production goes. But in a generation or 2 they are going to have the same problem once they try to move things to 5nm.

In a generation or two, we're going to have another shrink, 2023 isn't very far off and TSMC should begin mass production of either 2 or 3nm by that time.

It really depends on what Apple does with its production that is going to affect it.

Intel has already announced 1.4nm tech by 2029 but that's a pipedream the way 14nm is going for them. I do expect AMD to continue to rise because the indicators are there that pent up demand exists. Hopefully, Intel can get to 7nm next year with meteor lake. All bets are off if they skip right to 5nm.

The point is there are much too many unknowns to predict what will happen, but indicators are good for AMD for the time being as far as production goes.

 

[Lakados]

In a generation or two, we're going to have another shrink, 2023 isn't very far off and TSMC should begin mass production of either 2 or 3nm by that time.

It really depends on what Apple does with its production that is going to affect it.

Intel has already announced 1.4nm tech by 2029 but that's a pipedream the way 14nm is going for them. I do expect AMD to continue to rise because the indicators are there that pent up demand exists. Hopefully, Intel can get to 7nm next year with meteor lake. All bets are off if they skip right to 5nm.

The point is there are much too many unknowns to predict what will happen, but indicators are good for AMD for the time being as far as production goes.

I actually believe Intel can pull that off, their biggest issue with the 10nm node transition was the gap layers being uneven, but they swallowed their pride and hired TSMC to fix that for them so they are now getting things rolling. And I do expect AMD to increase their yields they could probably stretch it out to 7 million a year which would be a huge increase of like 40% but still far shy of where they would need to be to seriously disrupt Intel. Beyond that I don't know what AMD would plan to do unless they start having some parts made on 5nm and others on 7, which could be an option and would let them target some additional price points but I think they would have to do it carefully otherwise they would have a large group of products that step on each others toes and have their own products competing with themselves which may increase their sales but crush their profits.