AMD Releases more Carrizo Details: AMD's ISSCC 2015 Presentation

Pieter3dnow

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
6,784
Erm I was referring to the fact that whilst the console thing might just keep AMD afloat for the next few years, it's not really helping the fact that if consumers want to buy other products with AMD components in them then it's pretty slim pickings and will probably only get worse.

Quit focusing on the console APUs. The issue is that AMD haven't really got much else going on now or in the future that's going to be a big seller.

Where are the tablets/NUCs/NAS/phones/quality laptops/quality ultrabooks/quality desktops/Chromebooks/steaming boxes on the shelves all with a little AMD sticker on it?
.

And this is what is not working all of those markets AMD can't make money on because Intel buys design wins. funnelling money into the OEM or just free hardware tablet cpu (buy 1 get 1 free).

The outlook can change for AMD if they can get their ducks in a row. This will take longer then 2016 new cpu(or apu) launch and it won't happen over night

It is simply not possible to do what AMD always did , the last few years however are something that shows that they don't want to ship "new" products where they will not make money on,. AMD can't buy their own space on the market and does not have enough cash to start doing things in such a radical way where they will be able to sell a lot more cpu/apu.

So pushing products in certain areas will not have a priority. But I'm not blaming AMD for this AMD is trying to find as many markets where the playing field is not totally in AMD disadvantage. Which means sadly that when AMD can make money somewhere else they will have to focus on that part. And even if FM2+ is something that makes money for AMD it is not what I'm looking for.
 

durquavian

Gawd
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Messages
757
So what do you guys think the future holds?

Oh and try think of something other than "consoles" and "looks good on paper".

Start with AMD and their purchase of ARM which will then allow not just the possibility of server chips but also the ability to do with ARM what they did with x86, make custom chips, a lot like the consoles mister negative Nancy. And how about Zen and the minds that AMD has re-acquired for this special task. AMD has more than proven they can think outside of the box. Not every attempt will yield results that are extraordinary, but it is far better than sitting back and doing nothing.

And unlike you I am quite pleased with the expected results that Carrizo brings albeit only to laptops and tablets. And unlike you I am well informed and intelligent enough to understand that the existence or lack thereof proves little of performance and also where to lay the blame when its attendance is lacking. OEMs make the choices and most of the time performance has quite little to do with it. So maybe it is time to separate the issues and stop masking your disdain with vague references and side skirting issues. You don't like the lack of AMD choices in laptops: blame the OEMs. We have seen enough of the performance of Kaveri to know it has a place, and now Carrizo helps improve on some of the pieces we want to be just a bit better. I am sure there will be a few Laptops again but if it is lacking it isn't AMD to blame at least not completely. The brunt of that blame is OEMs and Intel flooding the market and treading the razor-edge of impropriety with Contra-Revenue. Trust me, the state of affairs has a lot of persons/entities to blame and AMD is far down that list.

That being said, the future does look to improve and AMD does seem to be showing a more tight running ship as far as restraint and sticking to their guns. Small form factor competition is tightening up even if desktop is not, at this moment. What AMD is doing with 28nm against Intels 22nm and 14nm is astounding. JUST ADMIT IT.
 

KazeoHin

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
8,724
Start with AMD and their purchase of ARM which will then allow not just the possibility of server chips but also the ability to do with ARM what they did with x86, make custom chips, a lot like the consoles mister negative Nancy. And how about Zen and the minds that AMD has re-acquired for this special task. AMD has more than proven they can think outside of the box. Not every attempt will yield results that are extraordinary, but it is far better than sitting back and doing nothing.

And unlike you I am quite pleased with the expected results that Carrizo brings albeit only to laptops and tablets. And unlike you I am well informed and intelligent enough to understand that the existence or lack thereof proves little of performance and also where to lay the blame when its attendance is lacking. OEMs make the choices and most of the time performance has quite little to do with it. So maybe it is time to separate the issues and stop masking your disdain with vague references and side skirting issues. You don't like the lack of AMD choices in laptops: blame the OEMs. We have seen enough of the performance of Kaveri to know it has a place, and now Carrizo helps improve on some of the pieces we want to be just a bit better. I am sure there will be a few Laptops again but if it is lacking it isn't AMD to blame at least not completely. The brunt of that blame is OEMs and Intel flooding the market and treading the razor-edge of impropriety with Contra-Revenue. Trust me, the state of affairs has a lot of persons/entities to blame and AMD is far down that list.

That being said, the future does look to improve and AMD does seem to be showing a more tight running ship as far as restraint and sticking to their guns. Small form factor competition is tightening up even if desktop is not, at this moment. What AMD is doing with 28nm against Intels 22nm and 14nm is astounding. JUST ADMIT IT.


Huge AMD fan here, but AMD's current mobile competitiveness is more of a lack of effort from Intel than genius on AMDs part. Lack of competition creates a lack of innovation.
 

maarten12100

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
186
The reason nobody uses AMD APUs is:

They can't hit 15w with more than the performance to the Core i3 (let-alone the i5 and i7), and since it costs Core i3 prices to make a competitive APU, they have to charge at least as much as Intel to make ends meet. Price/performance fail. There's also no opportunity for upsell if the best AMD parts are slower than Intel. One-and-done is not how the notebook industry works, and stocking an AMD chip and motherboard is an extra cost that makes no sense when they can just sell an i3 instead.
What about Beema though it has half the tray price and is better than Haswell i3 in pretty much everything except single threaded perf.
I think Carrizo will wreck Core M(eh) even at idle consumption. Intel's 14nm node was talked up big time when the time came however they seem to have just released it to please investors. Not ready and the chips requires very high voltages to attain desired clocks.

Intel in the last four years has shifted the industry from the normal notebook wattage being 25-35w for mainstream platforms and 45w for high-end platforms, down to 15w for all mainstream and 35-45w for high-end platforms. OEMs standardize ENTIRE DESIGNS now for that 15w power point (both to standardize processor inventory and things like coolers across multiple lines to reduce costs), so if AMD can't hit it, they lose the design win.
Something that somewhat started with Llano which was clearly superior in efficiency but it didn't win enough for how good it was. Too bad.
This is the exact reason why AMD will standardize their notebook offerings to fit the same package.

Also those 15W Intel chips have load numbers in the 20-40W range.(14nm products in particular) (strange coincidence or conspiracy some will say variable tdp but having a laptop that drains that hard is a bad idea no amount of fanboy talk can redeem it)
http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-ProBook-430-G2-Notebook-Review.137859.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-ProBook-450-G2-Notebook-Review.137513.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-13-9343-Touchscreen-Ultrabook-Review.135817.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-TravelMate-P236-M-Notebook-Review.137470.0.html

So AMD could compete on the high-end, but since most of those are sold as workstations or gaming systems, they have to compete with the Core i7 quad, which it can't. And the powerful integrated graphics is a liability at this range anyway, because most of those 45w systems ship with a discrete gpu.

So, where do they make sales in the premium part of the spectrum? Oh, I guess they don't. It's not some great conspiracy against them: the OEMs have been struggling to get people to buy new notebooks now that the market and performance has saturated, so they are trying lower-power, sleeker and more portable devices. It is this portion of the market that AMD can't even begin to compete in (and their mobile discrete GPUs have been a laughingstock for about the last four years as well), so yes they are going to keep losing money.

AMD had it a lot easier when most people just bought desktops. But times change, and companies that can't change with the times are doomed to failure.
Beema is pretty good it beats the i3 hands down but AMD needs an even better product and I hope Carrizo will deliver. Especially lower idle power is what is needed going from Kaveri. They need to get down in that 3W platform range.
 

daglesj

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 7, 2005
Messages
5,681
Start with AMD and their purchase of ARM which will then allow not just the possibility of server chips but also the ability to do with ARM what they did with x86, make custom chips, a lot like the consoles mister negative Nancy. And how about Zen and the minds that AMD has re-acquired for this special task. AMD has more than proven they can think outside of the box. Not every attempt will yield results that are extraordinary, but it is far better than sitting back and doing nothing.

And unlike you I am quite pleased with the expected results that Carrizo brings albeit only to laptops and tablets. And unlike you I am well informed and intelligent enough to understand that the existence or lack thereof proves little of performance and also where to lay the blame when its attendance is lacking. OEMs make the choices and most of the time performance has quite little to do with it. So maybe it is time to separate the issues and stop masking your disdain with vague references and side skirting issues. You don't like the lack of AMD choices in laptops: blame the OEMs. We have seen enough of the performance of Kaveri to know it has a place, and now Carrizo helps improve on some of the pieces we want to be just a bit better. I am sure there will be a few Laptops again but if it is lacking it isn't AMD to blame at least not completely. The brunt of that blame is OEMs and Intel flooding the market and treading the razor-edge of impropriety with Contra-Revenue. Trust me, the state of affairs has a lot of persons/entities to blame and AMD is far down that list.

That being said, the future does look to improve and AMD does seem to be showing a more tight running ship as far as restraint and sticking to their guns. Small form factor competition is tightening up even if desktop is not, at this moment. What AMD is doing with 28nm against Intels 22nm and 14nm is astounding. JUST ADMIT IT.

So what I read there was "blah blah not AMD's fault blah blah performance!"

Interesting.
 

durquavian

Gawd
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Messages
757
So what I read there was "blah blah not AMD's fault blah blah performance!"

Interesting.

So you concede based on ignorance and an obvious lack of knowledge. Well glad we could clear that up.

Seriously though, you should spend less time being negative and accept certain facts as they are not skewed to meet you slanted view. Like this whole discussion isn't really anyone's fault just a circumstance of being and effects. It isn't as simple as you try to make it sound. Business decisions aren't made the way you seem to make it.

Carrizo can be a huge win. So how does AMD get some wins for us to purchase? Maybe they have to front some funds like Intel. Maybe they don't care till Zen and wont push the issue, so we can continue with this discussion on for another year or more.

But none of the past or current offerings take away from the performance of Carrizo and the desire of some to have a laptop with it.
 

durquavian

Gawd
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Messages
757
Huge AMD fan here, but AMD's current mobile competitiveness is more of a lack of effort from Intel than genius on AMDs part. Lack of competition creates a lack of innovation.

WORST rationale ever. AMD is already on Intel heels and with Carrizo stands a chance to beat them. THIS ISNT DESKTOP! Felt the need to state that, so many posters seem to lump all processors into their arguments when it is not the case. AMD in the low power market has stiff competition for Intel and is far from being blown out of proportion like other segments.
 

daglesj

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 7, 2005
Messages
5,681
So you concede based on ignorance and an obvious lack of knowledge. Well glad we could clear that up.

Seriously though, you should spend less time being negative and accept certain facts as they are not skewed to meet you slanted view. Like this whole discussion isn't really anyone's fault just a circumstance of being and effects. It isn't as simple as you try to make it sound. Business decisions aren't made the way you seem to make it.

Carrizo can be a huge win. So how does AMD get some wins for us to purchase? Maybe they have to front some funds like Intel. Maybe they don't care till Zen and wont push the issue, so we can continue with this discussion on for another year or more.

But none of the past or current offerings take away from the performance of Carrizo and the desire of some to have a laptop with it.

I don't quite think you're seeing my point and getting a little stressed about it.

I like AMD.

I like AMD products. (I'd like to buy more but they either don't exist or offer the value I want)

I would like to see AMD succeed.

I and others just feel that unless AMD make some major changes to some of their strategies, the current situation we've had for the past 7 years isn't going to change for the better.

I'm sure there is plenty of work going on at AMD right now that's fantastic but we just don't expect that to come through in any great quantity or quality due to the current pit AMD are in. How can the current situation we have as AMD consumers be changed?

I would love to see AMD surprise us all and come up trumps over the next 12-18 months but can it wait that long? Something drastic needs to happen.

I'm not talking in some long dead language am I? Can I make this any clearer?
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2013
Messages
524
I don't quite think you're seeing my point and getting a little stressed about it.

I like myself

blah

I'm not talking in some long dead language am I? Can I make this any clearer?

yes, we all understand that you think very highly of yourself and that you think you understand the market better than AMD's marketing team and CEO.
 

Pieter3dnow

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
6,784
yes, we all understand that you think very highly of yourself and that you think you understand the market better than AMD's marketing team and CEO.

Maybe to many people underestimate what is going on. Sometimes people have this 1 dimensional view and ask for simple solution. Not enough AMD products to choose from make more products....
 

Lunas

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 22, 2001
Messages
10,024
Maybe to many people underestimate what is going on. Sometimes people have this 1 dimensional view and ask for simple solution. Not enough AMD products to choose from make more products....

there is plenty of products but there is none on the shelf there should be a8 and a10 apu based desktops at stores that carry desktops from what i saw nope celeron and i3s have pushed any remaining amd based e1 or a series off the shelves at my local walmart they had 2 amd based laptops in a end cap on clearance they were an a4 based and an a6 based laptop both by hp. A year ago i was able to see 4-5 amd laptops a4 6 and 8 and there was an all in one now they are gone replaced with all intel.

they need to cut them some shelves and hook some manufactures...
 

durquavian

Gawd
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Messages
757
I really want to see Carrizo laptop performance. Especially the now integrated south bridge and what total laptop power use changed with it.
 

Wascrash

Gawd
Joined
Apr 15, 2001
Messages
685
yes, we all understand that you think very highly of yourself and that you think you understand the market better than AMD's marketing team and CEO.

lol I think a lot of people think they know whats best for a company on these forums and how they could run it and make it profit.. When really they don't know whats going on and you hit the nail on the head on this post. Just let them spew their shit.
 

Pieter3dnow

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
6,784
I really want to see Carrizo laptop performance. Especially the now integrated south bridge and what total laptop power use changed with it.

Not just that but how about a tablet we have seen some prototypes that had predecessors in it. Since this is less power it should work nicely at least for windows.

Think "most" of "us" would buy something that has pretty decent specs even if it was at a slightly higher price then competing products.
 

durquavian

Gawd
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Messages
757
Not just that but how about a tablet we have seen some prototypes that had predecessors in it. Since this is less power it should work nicely at least for windows.

Think "most" of "us" would buy something that has pretty decent specs even if it was at a slightly higher price then competing products.

Seen a lot of interest from others for one, especially the discovery tablet shown at CES last year.
 

MotionBlur

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 27, 2001
Messages
1,636
I really want to see Carrizo laptop performance. Especially the now integrated south bridge and what total laptop power use changed with it.

Me too - I'd love a head to head with the just released Asus FX-7600p based laptops (N551zu and X550ze) that have yet to make it to the US and the new Carrizo FX even in a beta matchup of performance (cpu/gpu) and battery life. Going almost 3 years now with my HP A10-4600m, still getting around 4 or 5 hours of VS2013/SQL Server work out of it on the original battery. If the Carrizo can deliver even better battery life (which I think everyone would agree in comparison to the flagship 2012 Trinity based APU it should), while still delivering better cpu and gpu performance, it's a win win for me.
 

durquavian

Gawd
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Messages
757
They mentioned that since the south bridge is on die the PCI-E lanes would be few. Considering no need for dGPU would that be a huge hinderance say for HDD or SSD?
 
Top