AMD admits to restraining chip supply to keep higher CPU and GPU prices

[Lakados]

Couldn't make a decent product and sell it at a decent price? Fuck AMD, and Fuck you too Lisa Su!

Yeah they come out bragging about how cost effective their new chiplet GPU architecture is and how it lets them save so much money compared to monolithic designs. Then they turn around and sell it on par with those monolithic designs and bank the difference, the bastards. They dangled the hope of more affordable options then pulled back the curtain to reveal it was slightly cheaper than what the scalpers were charging, it certainly did feel like a betrayal for sure.
We can only hope they sell poorly and the market as a whole stands up and says “FU No!” And they collect dust on shelves and shipping containers, buy AMD knows and we know too they will sell just about every piece of silicon they stamp so here we are.

 

[Mega6]

Yeah they come out bragging about how cost effective their new chiplet GPU architecture is and how it lets them save so much money compared to monolithic designs. Then they turn around and sell it on par with those monolithic designs and bank the difference, the bastards. They dangled the hope of more affordable options then pulled back the curtain to reveal it was slightly cheaper than what the scalpers were charging, it certainly did feel like a betrayal for sure.
We can only hope they sell poorly and the market as a whole stands up and says “FU No!” And they collect dust on shelves and shipping containers, buy AMD knows and we know too they will sell just about every piece of silicon they stamp so here we are.

Make no mistake on which company sets the trends and pricing in the GPU market - Nvidia. It's not AMDs job any more than it is Nvidia or Intel to save anyone money. It's the opposite of course. Feel free to go buy a Intel GPU if it hurts everyone's feelings/GPU wallets so bad. Pricing is set in a major way by what the consumer is willing to pay.

Personally, I'm still playing a 15 year old game on a R9290 and there is less than zero reason to upgrade my GPU. Intel, AMD and Nvidia are companies - not people per se. If flinging crap at the messageboard wall makes you all feel better - so be it. I find it semi-amusing and somewhat laughable.

 

[Legendary Gamer]

Yeah they come out bragging about how cost effective their new chiplet GPU architecture is and how it lets them save so much money compared to monolithic designs. Then they turn around and sell it on par with those monolithic designs and bank the difference, the bastards. They dangled the hope of more affordable options then pulled back the curtain to reveal it was slightly cheaper than what the scalpers were charging, it certainly did feel like a betrayal for sure.
We can only hope they sell poorly and the market as a whole stands up and says “FU No!” And they collect dust on shelves and shipping containers, buy AMD knows and we know too they will sell just about every piece of silicon they stamp so here we are.

What is with the hate? They're a corporation. AMD is not in business to give you cheap video cards. None of these companies give a rats ass about you. They hope their engineering designs turn out and they won't loose a second of sleep if they don't. They will simply sell what they've got and keep trying to be on top next time. Its guaranteed if they came out with the fastest fucking GPU on the planet tomorrow, It would cost more than Nvidia's top product.

 

[1_rick]

Yeah they come out bragging about how cost effective their new chiplet GPU architecture is and how it lets them save so much money compared to monolithic designs. Then they turn around and sell it on par with those monolithic designs and bank the difference, the bastards.

Aren't you the one who pointed out that they'd be sued by shareholders if they *didn't* price this way?

 

[Lakados]

Aren't you the one who pointed out that they'd be sued by shareholders if they *didn't* price this way?

I did, and it’s true.
But it’s proof that they aren’t competing and are instead operating as a duopoly.
The more AMD and Nvidia talk the more I think they are too closely in sync, I smell some pretty tangible lawsuits in the near future for them.

 

[Legendary Gamer]

Make no mistake on which company sets the trends and pricing in the GPU market - Nvidia. It's not AMDs job any more than it is Nvidia or Intel to save anyone money. It's the opposite of course. Feel free to go buy a Intel GPU if it hurts everyone's feelings/GPU wallets so bad. Pricing is set in a major way by what the consumer is willing to pay.

Personally, I'm still playing a 15 year old game on a R9290 and there is less than zero reason to upgrade my GPU. Intel, AMD and Nvidia are companies - not people per se. If flinging crap at the messageboard wall makes you all feel better - so be it. I find it semi-amusing and somewhat laughable.

Yeah, I am not sure what is up with the people that have come to expect that the tech market was designed to please them. These companies are in it for the money and they do their best to come up with design wins. If they are capable of creating the top product they... MIGHT do that. However, what I have seen in the IT Industry is that the corps creating our silicon make parts that are "good enough" then they milk the shit out of the architecture before advancing. It is only when one of them falls behind that they innovate due to loss in market share.

AMD has this bad habit (since Ryzen 4, 5000 series) of assuming their shit is untouchable. They have a node advantage and all that, but Intel came back swinging. Inefficient as all hell, but 12th gen beat the shit of the 5000 series overall. AMD counters with the X3D part for Gaming. It's not as good for all the other tasks. Then AMD counters with a product that matches 12th Gen (but doesn't exceed their prior X3D part) and somehow Intel pulls another miracle out with 10nm+++ that puts AMD largely behind yet again with 13th Gen. So, AMD then counters their X3D shit again to attempt to retain relevance in the gaming space or get back on top.

Intel was FORCED to innovate by AMD's rise in power and market share. They would have been feeding us 14nm+++++++++++++++++ Parts for the rest of out lives even if they had perfected 10 and 7nm if AMD never surpassed them.

Now, while Intel is actually attempting to reclaim their Crown you see AMD doing just enough to try to stay in the lead. But they're not innovating anymore. The 7000 Series is just an overclocked 5000 series on a superior node.

 

[1_rick]

But it’s proof that they aren’t competing and are instead operating as a duopoly.

They literally can't compete, thanks to shareholders, then. You're fixing the blame on the wrong party.

This "must maximize quarterly profit or be sued" mentality has to go.

 

[Mega6]

Yeah, I am not sure what is up with the people that have come to expect that the tech market was designed to please them. These companies are in it for the money and they do their best to come up with design wins. If they are capable of creating the top product they... MIGHT do that. However, what I have seen in the IT Industry is that the corps creating our silicon make parts that are "good enough" then they milk the shit out of the architecture before advancing. It is only when one of them falls behind that they innovate due to loss in market share.

AMD has this bad habit (since Ryzen 4, 5000 series) of assuming their shit is untouchable. They have a node advantage and all that, but Intel came back swinging. Inefficient as all hell, but 12th gen beat the shit of the 5000 series overall. AMD counters with the X3D part for Gaming. It's not as good for all the other tasks. Then AMD counters with a product that matches 12th Gen (but doesn't exceed their prior X3D part) and somehow Intel pulls another miracle out with 10nm+++ that puts AMD largely behind yet again with 13th Gen. So, AMD then counters their X3D shit again to attempt to retain relevance in the gaming space or get back on top.

Intel was FORCED to innovate by AMD's rise in power and market share. They would have been feeding us 14nm+++++++++++++++++ Parts for the rest of out lives even if they had perfected 10 and 7nm if AMD never surpassed them.

Now, while Intel is actually attempting to reclaim their Crown you see AMD doing just enough to try to stay in the lead. But they're not innovating anymore. The 7000 Series is just an overclocked 5000 series on a superior node.

Technology is planned years in advanced. Companies really don't know exactly what type of competitor products they will face. Look at the roadmap slides from five years ago on roadmaps from Intel, AMD and Nvidia and it will become more clear. Do I think Intel let off the gas in the quad core era> Yeah. Was zen4 a letup because zen3 was such a success? Doesn't make much sense looking at the roadmaps. Right now, I think Nvidia, Intel and AMD all have their foot on the gas and have been for a while now. I also think AMD has concentrated more of their R&D on Corporate over consumer. This is a smart move on their part as corporate margins are much higher than consumer. A balancing act. Keep in mind releases can be delayed for numerous reasons and we've seen some of that as well. Doesn't necessarily mean that the company went to sleep at the wheel.

For instance - was intel forced to innovate or were they just stuck on 14nm because of their own lack of execution? I would suggest the latter. Intel didn't let off the gas @ 14nm to let AMD/TSMC by. Intel literally just over-designed the later node(s) beyond their capability.

 

[Lakados]

They literally can't compete, thanks to shareholders, then. You're fixing the blame on the wrong party.

This "must maximize quarterly profit or be sued" mentality has to go.

I know I am, I am having a bad morning Lenovo is F'ing me around on 2 of my older EPYC servers, they are still under warranty but the bios update they issued fixes one big issue but introduces 2 new issues that are causing them to hard lock, but not BSOD, and the system won't let me revert back to the old BIOS version because reasons? While the other issue was annoying it at least wasn't crashing my HyperV stack. SO... Yeah AMD is getting my slightly misplaced anger on this.

 

[Legendary Gamer]

And lets get something straight about AMD's bragging rights with their chiplet design. The design is meant to save AMD money, not you and me.

Technology is planned years in advanced. Companies really don't know exactly what type of competitor products they will face. Look at the roadmap slides from five years ago on roadmaps from Intel, AMD and Nvidia and it will become more clear. Do I think Intel let off the gas in the quad core era> Yeah. Was zen4 a letup because zen3 was such a success? Doesn't make much sense looking at the roadmaps. Right now, I think Nvidia, Intel and AMD all have their foot on the gas and have been for a while now. I also think AMD has concentrated more of their R&D on Corporate over consumer. This is a smart move on their part as corporate margins are much higher than consumer. A balancing act. Keep in mind releases can be delayed for numerous reasons and we've seen some of that as well. Doesn't necessarily mean that the company went to sleep at the wheel.

Yes, AMD focused on Corporate designs over consumer.

After 7 iterations of Zen (I'm counting the Laptop iterations which are like previous gen+), I would have imagined that AMD would have been actively trying to push the architecture or something at this point. While the gains have been massive between iterations it's just been AMD dialing in their hardware for max potential. They never seem to push anything. Now, when they were getting their asses kicked in the FX era, they pushed their silicon as hard as they could to get as much performance out of it as was possible. They even brought in a 3rd party company to help them achieve and stabilize high clock frequencies. That gear shift wasn't planned, it was in response to them getting their asses handed to them by Intel and technically releasing a product that was inferior to Phenom II.

AMD has struggled a lot. Phenom I had x64 Bugs in it and could only run 32 bit OSes stable. Then Phenom II got close to intel performance with more cores. They even released sub optimal multicore parts with disabled cores due to poor yields but made the most out of it. Even in the FX series they made the most out of the architecture, selling it to most consoles and eventually dominating that segment of the market.

With the Ryzen parts, they haven't really had to struggle. They haven't killed themselves to release more innovative parts. It's just been design cleanup the entire run. They never go far enough, because they always think they have the next hit.

Both Nvidia and Intel have been executing as high end as possible in response. Power limits be damned, performance is king and their products reflect this.

The moment Nvidia catches wind that AMD has a killer product, they take the breaks off the power limits and push their designs. When AMD has a follow up design or is chipping away at market share, Nvidia releases a Super or Ti card.

Intel on an inferior process node has adapted their tile ish based architecture meant for 7nm and crammed it into 10nm. Took em a while, but they have done a pretty good job making 10nm kick some ass, at the cost of power and heat.


We will see what the X3D parts look like when they come out, but if they don't accelerate High Resolution graphics (4k+) it's just the 5800X3D with hgher clocks and possible overclocking. We will see all the efficiency go out the window when you OC one of these processors. The argument against Intel will become a moot one.

If any of these corporations cared about the consumers they would release the best part they could, with the most innovation they could cram into it, for the lowest price. That, never happens. No matter who they are.

 

[Mega6]

And lets get something straight about AMD's bragging rights with their chiplet design. The design is meant to save AMD money, not you and me.

Yes, AMD focused on Corporate designs over consumer.

After 7 iterations of Zen (I'm counting the Laptop iterations which are like previous gen+), I would have imagined that AMD would have been actively trying to push the architecture or something at this point. While the gains have been massive between iterations it's just been AMD dialing in their hardware for max potential. They never seem to push anything. Now, when they were getting their asses kicked in the FX era, they pushed their silicon as hard as they could to get as much performance out of it as was possible. They even brought in a 3rd party company to help them achieve and stabilize high clock frequencies. That gear shift wasn't planned, it was in response to them getting their asses handed to them by Intel and technically releasing a product that was inferior to Phenom II.

AMD has struggled a lot. Phenom I had x64 Bugs in it and could only run 32 bit OSes stable. Then Phenom II got close to intel performance with more cores. They even released sub optimal multicore parts with disabled cores due to poor yields but made the most out of it. Even in the FX series they made the most out of the architecture, selling it to most consoles and eventually dominating that segment of the market.

With the Ryzen parts, they haven't really had to struggle. They haven't killed themselves to release more innovative parts. It's just been design cleanup the entire run. They never go far enough, because they always think they have the next hit.

Both Nvidia and Intel have been executing as high end as possible in response. Power limits be damned, performance is king and their products reflect this.

The moment Nvidia catches wind that AMD has a killer product, they take the breaks off the power limits and push their designs. When AMD has a follow up design or is chipping away at market share, Nvidia releases a Super or Ti card.

Intel on an inferior process node has adapted their tile ish based architecture meant for 7nm and crammed it into 10nm. Took em a while, but they have done a pretty good job making 10nm kick some ass, at the cost of power and heat.


We will see what the X3D parts look like when they come out, but if they don't accelerate High Resolution graphics (4k+) it's just the 5800X3D with slightly clocks and possible overclocking. We will see all the efficiency go out the window when you OC one of these processors. The argument against Intel will become a moot one.

Keep in mind that Intel (and Nvidia) R&D budget dwarfs AMDs. AMD has to SELECT where and what to do much more carefully than it's competitors to stay in business. Maybe that will change, but for now that's just the way it is. BTW - I think (or at least hope) consumers will be pleasantly surprised by Zen5. A whole ground up redesign of zen, rumored to have AMDs big-little implementation, doubling of core counts on 3nm.and should be a much bigger jump than zen3->4 was.

 

[Legendary Gamer]

Keep in mind that Intel (and Nvidia) R&D budget dwarfs AMDs. AMD has to SELECT where and what to do much more carefully than it's competitors to stay in business. Maybe that will change, but for now that's just the way it is. BTW - I think (or at least hope) consumers will be pleasantly surprised by Zen5. A whole ground up redesign of zen, rumored to have AMDs big-little implementation.and should be a much bigger step up from zen3->4..

All the more reason for AMD to punch as hard as they can and push what they've got as hard as it can be pushed. If they ever want to win, they have to hit harder, with less.

As for the Big / Little shit.... Please, no... You ever watch the videos with Ian Cutress in them? He does a better job of explaining why this is not the future of computing.

That's just it... AMD is always rumored to be on the verge of the next "Big Deal" CPU or GPU and they never quite get there.

 

[pavel]

There's a video of an AMD rep that knew the 4080 performance before release, then positioned the 7900XTX into the same pricing tier.



Nvidia also began GPU "sell through" in September-October and AMD followed right after.

They're both guilty of price fixing - it's funny how one poster claimed the other guy didn't 'know what pricing was.' Funny stuff. Both are evil corporations - just because one company is smaller - it doesn't make it 'less evil.' Sheesh. This site can be pretty amusing when this topic comes up. Oh yeah, I'm an Nvidia shill supposedly even though I say Nvidia is evil, too. Why do you think I seek out used cards? Well, it's one reason.

 

[Mega6]

All the more reason for AMD to punch as hard as they can and push what they've got as hard as it can be pushed. If they ever want to win, they have to hit harder, with less.

As for the Big / Little shit.... Please, no... You ever watch the videos with Ian Cutress in them? He does a better job of explaining why this is not the future of computing.

Intel has shown the benefits of big-little, more total cores does have added some benefit.

That's just it... AMD is always rumored to be on the verge of the next "Big Deal" CPU or GPU and they never quite get there.

Hehe - I guess marketing is doing it's job. Epyc, chiplet tech x64, resizable bar, it's all good as show by the competitors copying. It all got here, where were you?

 

[pavel]

Doesn't matter. You don't have a choice other than: don't buy a video card or stop playing games. Eventually we're all going to have to get another one. Realistically most can hold out for 3-5 years, but past that point eventually we're all going to have to get another from the limited market or stop playing PC games.

Well, I guess the third option is buy a Mac or otherwise move to ARM, but that also basically means: stop playing games.

Buy a used card - at least, you give some seller some money. Also, suggesting someone buy an Apple product - I don't think that is helpful, either.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Buy a used card - at least, you give some seller some money.

There's a large segment of the population, including here on the Hardforums that don't want to buy used cards because a huge glut of them have been mined on. And you don't know the conditions that card went through before they arrived in your hands. This goes double/tripple for dealing with FB marketplace, CL, or eBay.
Some might give benefit of the doubt to other forum members, but the quantity of cards here is also sorely lacking. It's also ignoring those that want to play 4k at a reasonable price with raytracing.

The bottom line is it's way more complicated than "buy used" and no matter what you're over a barrel if you want to buy a card. Which was the point of my post, which also apparently whooshed right over your head.

Also, suggesting someone buy an Apple product - I don't think that is helpful, either.

Then you missed the entire point of my post. Which I think is apparent from both halves of your response.
However, to respond directly to you, if you don't game at all, then there is serious benefit to using Apple ecosystem products over PC. Namely: having all day battery life, fans that never spin up, full performance while on battery power, best displays, mics, webcams, speakers when comparing same classes of system.
I can objectively say that if you want to code, webdev, sysadmin, or do office tasks on a laptop, there are massively beneficial reasons for doing so on a Mac vs a competing PC laptop. But whatever, I can tell from your response in the first place that you're anti-Apple for any and all use cases for any reason ever.

 

[Randall Stephens]

Couldn't make a decent product and sell it at a decent price? Fuck AMD, and Fuck you too Lisa Su!

Let’s really expand on this…

 

[sfsuphysics]

What is with the hate? They're a corporation.

Correct, however he is also not a shareholder instead an end consumer of product they make. So naturally he is going to dislike anticonsumer business decisions, i.e. the hate is absolutely justified

 

[ZodaEX]

Buy a used card - at least, you give some seller some money. Also, suggesting someone buy an Apple product - I don't think that is helpful, either.

Buying a new card from a seller gives them money too.

 

[Ur_Mom]

I liked their video cards when they were ATi. I liked their older CPUs (haven't used AMD since the Athlon 64 days). As a company, they're just trying to compete with Intel and NVIDIA. They want to profit and be a major competitor just like every other company. My company prices things competitive with other like products on the shelf, even if it's more profit for us vs. the actual cost. It's just keeping up with the industry. Can't fault them for that. They aren't the company that's just doing things that's good for the consumer, some Robin Hood stuff. They're a corporation focused on making money. Do I like the higher prices and lower quantity on the shelf? No. Do I blame them for the business practice? Not really. It sucks, but that's just business.

 

[DukenukemX]

You really need to stop wishing for Nvidia to go out of business. For someone that always consumer focus and fuck corporations this would be the worst thing to happen to the consumer.

Nvidia has decided to cater to those who buy Tesla's and buy homes in California for over 1 million. They don't even want to compete because they literally own the market. Besides Nvidia could go out of business but their GPU's will live on by having a Chinese company buy their GPU division. The only people who would have a problem with this are shareholders.

 

[1_rick]

You ever watch the videos with Ian Cutress in them? He does a better job of explaining why this is not the future of computing.

Got links? I trawled through a bit of his history on Tech Tech Potato but nothing leapt out at me.

 

[FrgMstr]

 

[Legendary Gamer]

Correct, however he is also not a shareholder instead an end consumer of product they make. So naturally he is going to dislike anticonsumer business decisions, i.e. the hate is absolutely justified

Anti-Competitive you say? I think Intel takes the cake in that aspect. They also never suffered any serious penalty for it. I think the last I heard of that ruling was that they had overturned some or at least a chunk of it an the litigation was still ongoing.

I can't say AMD is doing anything anti-consumer with this. This is a big ole nothing burger. With AMD managing Stock levels, every corporation does that.

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

GPU prices are decent now though... apart from the 4000 series.. But I thought NV and AMD both had an issue with a surplus of stock to sell when the mining craze went pop?

 

[Legendary Gamer]

GPU prices are decent now though... apart from the 4000 series.. But I thought NV and AMD both had an issue with a surplus of stock to sell when the mining craze went pop?

They did, I think that those stock levels never quite went away. You can still find 6000 Series parts for a good price. The Nvidia Parts, however, aren't as value oriented and remain on the market as well.

 

[sfsuphysics]

Anti-Competitive you say?

No I didn't say that, I said anti-consumer. Just like there's some world wide egg shortage or something going on yet I have ZERO problems finding any store I go to absolutely full of eggs but they're WAY more expensive. That's anti-consumer.

 

[Mega6]

No I didn't say that, I said anti-consumer. Just like there's some world wide egg shortage or something going on yet I have ZERO problems finding any store I go to absolutely full of eggs but they're WAY more expensive. That's anti-consumer.

It's called expensive.

 

[AlphaQup]

I keep seeing the phrase price-fixing being thrown around really loosely throughout this thread. Price-fixing has an actual definition, and it is illegal in the context we're all discussing in this thread. Words/phrases do still have actual meanings attached to them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/price-fixing
https://www.britannica.com/topic/price-fixing

I could go on, but there is a keyword here in all these definitions too many aren't picking up upon: AGREEMENT (between parties), whether that be written, verbal or in some definitions, inferred, IE Collusion. I have yet to see any evidence in this thread of any of those 3. Until I see that smoking gun, what you're seeing now ain't that. You're seeing inventory control + an attempt to make the remaining 3000 series stock appear more appeasing as many others above me have pointed out.

I get some don't like (or maybe the better word is understand why) the prices are higher this time around... and personally, I do not LIKE it either, but I vote with my wallet. I've bought the 1080 (coming from a 970), 2080Ti and 3080 all at MSRP right when they came out because I felt the value was there on launch day. I was excited to see what the 4080/4090, or the 7900xt/xtx would bring... until I saw MSRP. I said nope, to hell with that. This round isn't for me, and that's just fine.

Take that approach (let supply stagnate and not move), fire up your games and be happy (decrease demand), and wild things might occur...

 

[LukeTbk]

I could go on, but there is a keyword here in all these definitions too many aren't picking up upon: AGREEMENT (between parties), whether that be written, verbal or in some definitions, inferred, IE Collusion. I have yet to see any evidence in this thread of any of those 3. Until I see that smoking gun, what you're seeing now ain't that. You're seeing inventory control + an attempt to make the remaining 3000 series stock appear more appeasing as many others above me have pointed out.

What would an inferred agreement smoking gun look like ? And what remainng 3000 series stock are we talking about

When I search 3080 on bestbuy.com
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/search...rue&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960&keys=keys

4070ti-4080 are the first 2 results

No 3090 on newegg:
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=8000 4814&d=3090

Are we talking about 3060-3070 ? Does that really compete with the 4080 and the potential buyer would be turned off if the 4080 was $1100 instead of $1200 ?

 

[AlphaQup]

What would an inferred agreement smoking gun look like ? And what remainng 3000 series stock are we talking about

When I search 3080 on bestbuy.com
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/search...rue&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960&keys=keys

4070ti-4080 are the first 2 results

No 3090 on newegg:
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=8000 4814&d=3090

Are we talking about 3060-3070 ? Does that really compete with the 4080 and the potential buyer would be turned off if the 4080 was $1100 instead of $1200 ?

An inferred price fixing agreement wouldn't be explicitly defined, inferred would be much more subtle (and I must admit, it's a great question). "You sell for product X for $X (high), I sell for Y for $Y (high), we both make out like bandits!" (because we operate in a near-duopoly in this instance), too obvious right? Where's that whistle blower when we need em?

https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance...itrust-laws/dealings-competitors/price-fixing (an entertaining read, not going to lie)

I won't quote the entire section, but check out the part about "Price fixing relates not only to prices". At the end of the day, it comes down to those 2 companies coordinating on the linked content. That's your subtlety.

-------------------------------------------------------

I don't know what to make of a couple snapshots in time of where we're at right now with GPU availability, honestly I'll poke around tomorrow AM a bit if I can at work, but I'm still of the mindset a sane 4080 buyer doesn't exist.

 

[Marees]

An inferred price fixing agreement wouldn't be explicitly defined, inferred would be much more subtle (and I must admit, it's a great question). "You sell for product X for $X (high), I sell for Y for $Y (high), we both make out like bandits!" (because we operate in a near-duopoly in this instance), too obvious right? Where's that whistle blower when we need em?

https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance...itrust-laws/dealings-competitors/price-fixing (an entertaining read, not going to lie)

I won't quote the entire section, but check out the part about "Price fixing relates not only to prices". At the end of the day, it comes down to those 2 companies coordinating on the linked content. That's your subtlety.

-------------------------------------------------------

I don't know what to make of a couple snapshots in time of where we're at right now with GPU availability, honestly I'll poke around tomorrow AM a bit if I can at work, but I'm still of the mindset a sane 4080 buyer doesn't exist.

Imo, inventory correction (which is what AMD claims it to be) is short term. AMD has given guidance for correction for 3 more months. So by june stocks should be back to "normal" atleast from AMD's side.

Not sure if there will be any difference in price to performance. As it is for $650 and below AMD already has good price to performance & the same is likely to continue when full RDNA 3 stack is released.

That is RDNA 3 MSRP would be around current street price of equivalent (raster) performing RDNA 2 cards. Only thing that is likely to improve is RT performance.

 

[Ranulfo]

This is something I've mentioned many times before in this forum, because there's a history of AMD and Nvidia price fixing. It also doesn't make sense for AMD to price their GPU's this high when they barely have a market share compared to Nvidia. This is the moment AMD could lower prices, like seriously lower prices, and take market share away from Nvidia. Instead AMD released the 7900 series and priced them around $1k and thought that was a good idea.

Profit margin matters more to AMD at this time than market share. On top of slowing demand in the market with months of excess supply.

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

The reality is buying new or used isn't going to change the chance of getting a bad GPU. I've had far too many new products die on me within the first week. My used Vega 56 that was used for mining is still going strong after 3 years of using it.



You also don't see the massive disadvantages of the Apple ecosystem. Like how Apple's walled garden is already getting attention from the Biden administration. It could be illegal to do what Apple does. Fact is you can build a PC, buy a PC from someone other than one manufacturer, and install whatever OS you want on that PC. Also unlike Apple, both AMD and Intel release source code so that their products to work on Linux day 1. Where as Asahi Linux still doesn't have sleep as well as GPU acceleration because Apple hasn't released any source code or helped in any way.

All day battery if all you do is watch videos and browse the internet. The moment you pull a full load onto the CPU and keep that consistent, the battery dies within 1 hour and 30 minutes, give or take.

Or get a PC and do all that and a bag of chips.

Friends don't let friends buy Apple products. Also you're the one who brought up Apple in a AMD chip supply thread, and then began to preach about Apple, like you're the jehovah's witness of Apple products.

This is something I've mentioned many times before in this forum, because there's a history of AMD and Nvidia price fixing. It also doesn't make sense for AMD to price their GPU's this high when they barely have a market share compared to Nvidia. This is the moment AMD could lower prices, like seriously lower prices, and take market share away from Nvidia. Instead AMD released the 7900 series and priced them around $1k and thought that was a good idea.

How sad is it when we think GPU prices are OK when looking at 3 year old GPU's, because that's how old the RTX 3000 series is. GPU prices are definitely not OK.

7900 XTX is $999, that's decent for top end, I said NVs 4000 series isn't priced well.

 

[DukenukemX]

Profit margin matters more to AMD at this time than market share. On top of slowing demand in the market with months of excess supply.

It makes more sense to sell more cards at lower margins than to sell fewer cards at higher margins. Especially since we know GPU's aren't flying off the shelves. This worked when demand was so high that you'd have to be high to lower prices. This isn't the case anymore, and this won't change for years. You aren't going to see demand at least until the PS6 or Xbox Series Two is released. Also as much as people are excited to see older GPU's for a cheaper price, AMD isn't good at driver support for older cards. This is why the Omega drivers are back from nearly 20 years of nothing, because we went through this same problem with ATI.

 

[Lakados]

It makes more sense to sell more cards at lower margins than to sell fewer cards at higher margins. Especially since we know GPU's aren't flying off the shelves. This worked when demand was so high that you'd have to be high to lower prices. This isn't the case anymore, and this won't change for years. You aren't going to see demand at least until the PS6 or Xbox Series Two is released. Also as much as people are excited to see older GPU's for a cheaper price, AMD isn't good at driver support for older cards. This is why the Omega drivers are back from nearly 20 years of nothing, because we went through this same problem with ATI.

That is only true when you aren't silicon-limited, it pains me but AMD is a boutique chip designer at this point, with small batches of highly demanded products that they get to choose the price for in most cases. AMD has its hands in a lot of pots, and every time they announce a new product stack they have to decrease what they are making elsewhere GPU's are an easy cut for AMD because they are probably its lowest margin parts and they have a lot of competition not only from their older parts but from Nvidia too. Whereas much of the AMD product stack right now is virtually uncontested, and in those spaces, they charge like it too. They allocate their silicon to the easy money, and right now GPUs arent it.

Which sucks, I don't like it, I just don't have an answer for it.

 

[NKD]

what a stretch lmao. They said they undershipped, why would you over ship when the demand is going down? In q3 and Q4 all I saw was price drop on older amd hardware lmao. Also RDNA3 has been selling msrp other than AIB cards.

So a company admitting they didn't want to overship product during a downturn is somehow an issue? Oh wait didn't zen4 go on massive discount cuz of low demand?

This article is for clicks.

 

[NKD]

Yea lmao. They were selling zen4 at massive discount due to low demand and somehow amd undershipped to raise prices rofl.

 

[rinaldo00]

That is only true when you aren't silicon-limited, it pains me but AMD is a boutique chip designer at this point, with small batches of highly demanded products that they get to choose the price for in most cases. AMD has its hands in a lot of pots, and every time they announce a new product stack they have to decrease what they are making elsewhere GPU's are an easy cut for AMD because they are probably its lowest margin parts and they have a lot of competition not only from their older parts but from Nvidia too. Whereas much of the AMD product stack right now is virtually uncontested, and in those spaces, they charge like it too. They allocate their silicon to the easy money, and right now GPUs arent it.

Which sucks, I don't like it, I just don't have an answer for it.

The answer is more fabs on US soil. Just wait a decade or so.

 

[staknhalo]

The answer is more fabs on US soil. Just wait a decade or so.

AMD gonna be paying Intel to make AMD chips one day, watch