4K Anthem Demo Analyzed

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
54,104
Here is one for you GPU geeks. Digital Foundry breaks down BioWare's Anthem trailer from E3. Interestingly enough, it was confirmed that BioWare was using "2 1080TIs" and "running 4K60." When we asked BioWare if we were to assume that meant that Anthem would ship with SLI and/or Crossfire support...crickets. I guess we all know what that means.

Check out the video.
 

horrorshow

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
8,473
I personally don't understand why SLI/Crossfire is so difficult to implement....

Shouldn't it just be like Nvidia/AMD send developers some sort of toolset and it be easy-peasy??
 

gamerk2

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 9, 2012
Messages
2,033
I personally don't understand why SLI/Crossfire is so difficult to implement....

Shouldn't it just be like Nvidia/AMD send developers some sort of toolset and it be easy-peasy??

Nope.

SLI and CF used to be really simple: You pair two (or more) of the same exact model of GPU. You could handle it entirely in the GPU driver if you wanted to.

With DX12/Vulkan, the situation is much harder. Now it's entirely up to the developer to implement, and they have to properly load balance for any arbitrary combination of GPUs. Want to pair an Intel HD 4000 with a 1080Ti? The developers have to support it.

For reasons that should be obvious, developers have decided this isn't worth the headache to support.

You wanted low level APIs, you got them. And all the headaches that come with them.
 

DoubleTap

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Messages
2,910
For reasons that should be obvious, developers have decided this isn't worth the headache to support.

You wanted low level APIs, you got them. And all the headaches that come with them.

Just like the bad old days:

dos-game-sound-setup.png
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
6,941
I am strangely looking forward to this game. I mean I don't want to play it but I think I will have too it looks like it may be able to deliver on all the fronts that Destiny 2 failed, but now I am just getting my hopes up which means it will leave me disappointed so I should just skip it entirely. Oh the conundrum it causes me.
*Angrily shakes fist at nothing
 

Flexion

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 20, 2004
Messages
1,607
Frostbyte has typically been SLI friendly...

Bigger question is whether it will support SLI and/or Crossfire in DX12 and/or Vulkan :D

Yes indeed.

Well... Not that anyone plays it anymore, but Mass Effect Andromeda did have SLI support and ran on the frostbite engine.

I hope Anthem ends up being a good game, both core mechanics and loot wise. The looter shooter genre as a whole needs more healthy competition.
 

Mode13

Gawd
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
899
I don't want to deal with sli or cf again. Just bring on a single gpu that maxes everything at 4k60 and I'm happy for the next week or two until i start demanding 4k 144hz and 8k60
 

d8lock

Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
684
Yes indeed.

Well... Not that anyone plays it anymore, but Mass Effect Andromeda did have SLI support and ran on the frostbite engine.

I hope Anthem ends up being a good game, both core mechanics and loot wise. The looter shooter genre as a whole needs more healthy competition.
Crossfire on the other hand runs like complete ass in Andromeda.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
6,941
Crossfire on the other hand runs like complete ass in Andromeda.
I have never had stellar luck with Crossfire, I gave up on it and I will just go with large single GPU's until there is a dramatic shift in how things work as it is just too unreliable.
 

Shmee

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
1,148
Nope.

SLI and CF used to be really simple: You pair two (or more) of the same exact model of GPU. You could handle it entirely in the GPU driver if you wanted to.

With DX12/Vulkan, the situation is much harder. Now it's entirely up to the developer to implement, and they have to properly load balance for any arbitrary combination of GPUs. Want to pair an Intel HD 4000 with a 1080Ti? The developers have to support it.

For reasons that should be obvious, developers have decided this isn't worth the headache to support.

You wanted low level APIs, you got them. And all the headaches that come with them.

Not to mention GPUs have gotten powerful enough that most consumers don't see the need to do it. When you can get a card for $250 that runs most games on high/medium at 4K @ 30FPS or 1080p @ 60FPs why buy two $500 cards? So if gamers aren't doing much SLI/Crossfire, why spend a ton of time supporting it?
 

gamerk2

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 9, 2012
Messages
2,033
Not to mention GPUs have gotten powerful enough that most consumers don't see the need to do it. When you can get a card for $250 that runs most games on high/medium at 4K @ 30FPS or 1080p @ 60FPs why buy two $500 cards? So if gamers aren't doing much SLI/Crossfire, why spend a ton of time supporting it?

Or the headaches due to latency concerns; remember all the "I'm getting 100 FPS but the game stutters why?" posts? That's latency, and no one really has a solution for it. From a functional perspective, SLI and CF were never good technical solutions to the FPS problem since most of those frames aren't reaching the display.
 

IdiotInCharge

NVIDIA SHILL
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Messages
14,675
Or the headaches due to latency concerns; remember all the "I'm getting 100 FPS but the game stutters why?" posts? That's latency, and no one really has a solution for it. From a functional perspective, SLI and CF were never good technical solutions to the FPS problem since most of those frames aren't reaching the display.

This was very much a legacy Crossfire thing, having experienced it- Nvidia largely banished the latency issues at the expense of a bit of scaling. Believe AMD more or less solved most of their issues here.
 

gamerk2

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 9, 2012
Messages
2,033
Just like the bad old days:

View attachment 88260

No MT-32 support? Lame.

EDIT

I do note the problem in that case was various non-compatible sound cards, so every unique model needed a separate driver. Dedicated higher level sound APIs really didn't come around until the initial Directsound API in Windows 95.

Eventually, Sound Blaster became the default spec that everyone else had to support, with Roland SC-55/General MIDI as the higher quality alternative for those of us who actually had MIDI Synthesizers. All the other alternatives (Gravis being the most notable) lost in the market for various reasons, and CD quality audio eventually killed off MIDI entirely.

And yes, I actually use my MT-32/SC-88 when running these titles through DOSBOX. Always superior to Sound Blaster spec.
 
Last edited:

lostin3d

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 13, 2016
Messages
2,043
Or the headaches due to latency concerns; remember all the "I'm getting 100 FPS but the game stutters why?" posts? That's latency, and no one really has a solution for it. From a functional perspective, SLI and CF were never good technical solutions to the FPS problem since most of those frames aren't reaching the display.

I count myself fortunate to have a 1080SLI desktop rig, a 980m SLI laptop, and a 1080TI single GPU desktop rig. They really allow me to compare things. I noticed on quite a few games with SLI support where people were complaining about stuttering I saw the exact same effects on my single GPU solution. Usually less dramatic, but still there. One the other hand I've read posts for some games with people complaining and I don't experience it at all with my SLI rigs. As is so common with PC gaming, so many factors to take into account, ram, cpu, storage, bus speeds, drivers, chipsets, etc.


This was very much a legacy Crossfire thing, having experienced it- Nvidia largely banished the latency issues at the expense of a bit of scaling. Believe AMD more or less solved most of their issues here.

I know most want to leave mgpu behind but I keep saying that if AMD shifted gears into providing easier CF implementation for the dev's that many people would buy up their cards just to get away from NV to have a good 4k/60fps, or more, experience. If a Vega64 is somewhere between 1080 and TI in some games than 2 should hit that sweet spot. That combined with VRR t.v. support and I'd switch in a heartbeat. It's hard for me to believe that it wouldn't be cheaper for that path then trying to one up NV's best. If they did it would likely force NV down one of two paths, or both. Either bring back more SLI or finally get off their butts and put out a great single card solution. Either way the consumers would win.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
13,162
QEMM fixed it all.

I still have mine from 1998:

Code:
@echo off
SET FBD=C:\APPS\GRAVIS\PCFB2
SET FX_GLIDE_SWAPINTERVAL=0
SET SST_SWAP_EN_WAIT_ON_VSYNC=0
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H7 P300 E620 T6
SET SST_GAMMA=1.0
SET SST_GRXCLK=60
SET SOUND=C:\PROGRA~1\CREATIVE\CTSND
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E MODE:0
PROMPT $P$G
SET TEMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
GOTO %CONFIG%
:W
PATH C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~2;C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~1;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\;C:\APPS\ARHIVERS;C:\DOS;C:\NC
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\APPS\GRAVIS\PCFB2
win
goto end
:NORMAL
C:\WINDOWS\CTCM
PATH C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~2;C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~1;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\;C:\NC;C:\APPS\ARHIVERS;C:\DOS;C:\APPS\QEMM
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\APPS\GRAVIS\PCFB2
c:\APPS\creative\mixerset /p
C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI /RF C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:PLEX0001 /D:MSCD000
C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI /RF C:\APPS\CREATIVE\AWEUTIL.COM
C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI /RF C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE
C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI /RF C:\APPS\2MF\2M.COM
C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI /RF C:\GNET95\DOS\GMOUSE.COM
nc
GOTO END
:EMM386
C:\WINDOWS\CTCM
PATH C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~2;C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~1;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\;C:\NC;C:\APPS\ARHIVERS;C:\DOS
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\APPS\GRAVIS\PCFB2
c:\APPS\creative\mixerset /p
C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD000 /D:PLEX0001
C:\APPS\CREATIVE\AWEUTIL.COM
C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE
rem C:\APPS\2MF\2M.COM
LH C:\GNET95\DOS\GMOUSE.COM
NC
GOTO END
:NOEMM
C:\WINDOWS\CTCM
PATH C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~2;C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~1;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\;C:\NC;C:\DOS
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\APPS\GRAVIS\PCFB2
c:\APPS\creative\mixerset /p
C:\APPS\CREATIVE\AWEUTIL.COM
C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:PLEX0001 /D:MSCD000
C:\GNET95\DOS\GMOUSE.COM
NC
goto end
:CLEAN
C:\WINDOWS\CTCM
C:\APPS\CREATIVE\AWEUTIL.COM
SET PATH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\;C:\NC;C:\DOS;C:\GNET95\DOS
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\APPS\GRAVIS\PCFB2
c:\APPS\creative\mixerset /p
goto end
:CD
C:\WINDOWS\CTCM
PATH C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~2;C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~1;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\;C:\NC;C:\APPS\ARHIVERS;C:\DOS
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\APPS\GRAVIS\PCFB2
c:\APPS\creative\mixerset /p
C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD000
C:\GNET95\DOS\GMOUSE.COM
:end

Code:
[common]
DOS=HIGH,UMB
FILES=90
FCBS=90,0
BUFFERS=90,0
shell=c:\command.com /e:1024 /p

[MENU]
MENUITEM = W, Windows 98
MENUITEM = normal, Qemm
MENUITEM = emm386, Emm 386
MENUITEM = noemm, No Memory Maneger
MENUITEM = CD,Cd Clean
MENUITEM = CLEAN, Clean
MENUDEFAULT = W,5
[W]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM
[NORMAL]
SET LOADHIDATA=C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI.RF
DEVICE=C:\APPS\QEMM\QEMM386.SYS RAM RF
DEVICE=C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI.SYS /RF C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
DEVICE=C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI.SYS /RF C:\WINDOWS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICE=c:\symbios\aspi8xx.sys
DEVICE=C:\Symbios\symcd.SYS /D:PLEX0001
DEVICE=C:\ASUS_CD\ASUSCD.SYS /D:MSCD000 /UDMA

[EMM386]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM
DEVICE=c:\symbios\aspi8xx.sys
DEVICE=C:\symbios\symcd.sys /D:PLEX0001
DEVICE=C:\ASUS_CD\ASUSCD.SYS /D:MSCD000 /UDMA
[NOEMM]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=c:\symbios\aspi8xx.sys
DEVICE=C:\PLEXTOR\PLEXTOR.SYS /D:PLEX0001
DEVICE=C:\ASUS_CD\ASUSCD.SYS /D:MSCD000 /UDMA
[CD]
DEVICE=C:\ASUS_CD\ASUSCD.SYS /D:MSCD000 /UDMA
[CLEAN]

[COMMON]
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\DRVSPACE.SYS /MOVE
 

Lifelite

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 26, 2015
Messages
6,348
SLI friendly but doesn't actually utilize both cards in SLI config. I see this all the time in modern games. Now days "SLI supported" just means the game will run. :p

Also why isn't HardOCP a verified twitter account?
 

Azphira

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Messages
1,883
The comedy of it all is this 4k game and monitor delusion shit when AMD and nvidia are releasing fuck all to push it.
 

Mode13

Gawd
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
899
I still have mine from 1998:

Code:
@echo off
SET FBD=C:\APPS\GRAVIS\PCFB2
SET FX_GLIDE_SWAPINTERVAL=0
SET SST_SWAP_EN_WAIT_ON_VSYNC=0
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H7 P300 E620 T6
SET SST_GAMMA=1.0
SET SST_GRXCLK=60
SET SOUND=C:\PROGRA~1\CREATIVE\CTSND
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E MODE:0
PROMPT $P$G
SET TEMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
GOTO %CONFIG%
:W
PATH C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~2;C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~1;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\;C:\APPS\ARHIVERS;C:\DOS;C:\NC
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\APPS\GRAVIS\PCFB2
win
goto end
:NORMAL
C:\WINDOWS\CTCM
PATH C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~2;C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~1;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\;C:\NC;C:\APPS\ARHIVERS;C:\DOS;C:\APPS\QEMM
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\APPS\GRAVIS\PCFB2
c:\APPS\creative\mixerset /p
C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI /RF C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:PLEX0001 /D:MSCD000
C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI /RF C:\APPS\CREATIVE\AWEUTIL.COM
C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI /RF C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE
C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI /RF C:\APPS\2MF\2M.COM
C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI /RF C:\GNET95\DOS\GMOUSE.COM
nc
GOTO END
:EMM386
C:\WINDOWS\CTCM
PATH C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~2;C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~1;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\;C:\NC;C:\APPS\ARHIVERS;C:\DOS
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\APPS\GRAVIS\PCFB2
c:\APPS\creative\mixerset /p
C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD000 /D:PLEX0001
C:\APPS\CREATIVE\AWEUTIL.COM
C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE
rem C:\APPS\2MF\2M.COM
LH C:\GNET95\DOS\GMOUSE.COM
NC
GOTO END
:NOEMM
C:\WINDOWS\CTCM
PATH C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~2;C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~1;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\;C:\NC;C:\DOS
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\APPS\GRAVIS\PCFB2
c:\APPS\creative\mixerset /p
C:\APPS\CREATIVE\AWEUTIL.COM
C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:PLEX0001 /D:MSCD000
C:\GNET95\DOS\GMOUSE.COM
NC
goto end
:CLEAN
C:\WINDOWS\CTCM
C:\APPS\CREATIVE\AWEUTIL.COM
SET PATH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\;C:\NC;C:\DOS;C:\GNET95\DOS
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\APPS\GRAVIS\PCFB2
c:\APPS\creative\mixerset /p
goto end
:CD
C:\WINDOWS\CTCM
PATH C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~2;C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~1;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\;C:\NC;C:\APPS\ARHIVERS;C:\DOS
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\APPS\GRAVIS\PCFB2
c:\APPS\creative\mixerset /p
C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD000
C:\GNET95\DOS\GMOUSE.COM
:end

Code:
[common]
DOS=HIGH,UMB
FILES=90
FCBS=90,0
BUFFERS=90,0
shell=c:\command.com /e:1024 /p

[MENU]
MENUITEM = W, Windows 98
MENUITEM = normal, Qemm
MENUITEM = emm386, Emm 386
MENUITEM = noemm, No Memory Maneger
MENUITEM = CD,Cd Clean
MENUITEM = CLEAN, Clean
MENUDEFAULT = W,5
[W]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM
[NORMAL]
SET LOADHIDATA=C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI.RF
DEVICE=C:\APPS\QEMM\QEMM386.SYS RAM RF
DEVICE=C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI.SYS /RF C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
DEVICE=C:\APPS\QEMM\LOADHI.SYS /RF C:\WINDOWS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICE=c:\symbios\aspi8xx.sys
DEVICE=C:\Symbios\symcd.SYS /D:PLEX0001
DEVICE=C:\ASUS_CD\ASUSCD.SYS /D:MSCD000 /UDMA

[EMM386]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM
DEVICE=c:\symbios\aspi8xx.sys
DEVICE=C:\symbios\symcd.sys /D:PLEX0001
DEVICE=C:\ASUS_CD\ASUSCD.SYS /D:MSCD000 /UDMA
[NOEMM]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=c:\symbios\aspi8xx.sys
DEVICE=C:\PLEXTOR\PLEXTOR.SYS /D:PLEX0001
DEVICE=C:\ASUS_CD\ASUSCD.SYS /D:MSCD000 /UDMA
[CD]
DEVICE=C:\ASUS_CD\ASUSCD.SYS /D:MSCD000 /UDMA
[CLEAN]

[COMMON]
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\DRVSPACE.SYS /MOVE

Still got that Gravis PC Firebird 2 joystick laying around?? :p .. I still have my 486 and Pentium III systems (still working) but my old sidewinder joystick is disintegrating.
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
54,104
SLI friendly but doesn't actually utilize both cards in SLI config. I see this all the time in modern games. Now days "SLI supported" just means the game will run. :p

Also why isn't HardOCP a verified twitter account?
Dunno, never really worried about it.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
13,162
Still got that Gravis PC Firebird 2 joystick laying around?? :p .. I still have my 486 and Pentium III systems (still working) but my old sidewinder joystick is disintegrating.
Nope, had to RMA it, it developed some issue I don't remember what. They replaced it with a much less impressive Blackhawk digital. I used to have a Gravis Analog Pro as well with the transparent housing, that was my favourite.
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
54,104
Eh, may or may not be worth it. Just gets rid of any question whether or not you're the real thing.
Not really too worried about that. Honestly, I am not sure how you even go about it.
 
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