MistaSparkul
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If those OLED monitors are capped to 120Hz once again I guess I could just start playing with ray tracing on to bring my fps back down below 120 lol.
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42" OLED MASTER THREAD
- Thread starter Murzilka
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If you're really worried about your framerate being too high, just set power to 70%. That will reign in those rogue frames real quick.
MistaSparkul
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Not worried about my framerate being too high as it can never be too high, worried about next year's OLED display's refresh rates being too low. I'm not even asking for 240Hz, but can we at least move the goalpost beyond 120Hz yet to 160Hz or something? We've been at 120Hz for 3 years now since the C9.
Samsung is already allowing higher refresh rates on their QD-OLED models. It's coming.
Happy Hopping
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what is the min. Nvidia video card I need at the HDMI 2.1, 138 Hz ? say it's only for 2D display, no PC games? or some really old PC games such as R-type Final 2 (all they need is GTX9500)?
Enhanced Interrogator
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You guys should be asking for BFI/strobing more than you're asking for higher refresh rates. Strobing makes games look clear in motion even at low refresh rates like 75hz
Sure, high refresh rates are nice, but to take advantage of them you have to be able to run all your games at super high frame rates to take advantage of it. I'd much rather crank the eye candy in the settings and run a lower refresh. Like I do on my CRTs.
Strobing isn't really a viable option for any HDR games. My LG CX 48" allows running HDR + 120 Hz strobing and the loss of brightness makes it look more like SDR. For HDR + strobing to be a viable option, OLEDs would have to at least double their sustained brightness and that's just not happening. Strobing works fine for SDR games but most of the games I play are HDR capable and that makes a bigger impact in the experience for me.
Cards like the 4090 push 4K high refresh rates to being viable even without DLSS and frame generation tech will only get better over time, just like DLSS has gotten better with each iteration. So the best thing would be if future LG OLEDs were capable of higher refresh rates. If not 4K 240 Hz, then maybe something like 165 Hz.
I don't think any of the OLEDs on the market support 138 Hz except over Displayport 1.4 on the ASUS PG42/48UQ.
HDMI 2.1 would be limited to 4K 120 Hz. For that you could use any DP 1.4 + DSC supporting GPU, basically RTX 20 series and up. You then need a DP to HDMI 2.1 adapter which will give you 4K 120 Hz 10-bit 4:4:4 with HDR but no VRR support. Since you're not gaming it's not going to be relevant. For an actual HDMI 2.1 port you need a RTX 30 series, Intel Arc or AMD 6000 series GPU.
MistaSparkul
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BFI is nice but the number of games where I would use it is a lot less these days since older games now have support for auto HDR. There are the occasional games that lack HDR support entirely in both official and auto HDR but that's far and few like Dying Light 2. The majority of games coming out these days you can expect HDR support and as other people have already mentioned, BFI is basically an incompatible tech to use with HDR.
Why are you not considering this? Corsair Xeneon Flex 45WQHD240 BENDABLE OLED monitor
MistaSparkul
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I am but that's not 4k though.
Enhanced Interrogator
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Yeah currently BFI doesn’t mix with HDR, but I imagine if they could engineer a way to make the OLEDs very bright in short 1ms or 2ms bursts.
I just imagine it hasn’t been a priority research area yet
Primarily because people don’t remember CRTs and how bad motion blur is on modern screens by comparison
I just imagine it hasn’t been a priority research area yet
Primarily because people don’t remember CRTs and how bad motion blur is on modern screens by comparison
elvn
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The bend would be useless to me under 1000R because the PPD would be too low.
- 800R Curved 45"uw 3440x1400: 800mm radius of curve's focal point = 31.4" view distance = ~ 51.4 PPD
- 900R Curved 45"uw 3440x1400: 900mm radius of curve's focal point = 35.4" view distance = ~ 56.6 PPD
- 1000R Curved45"uw3440x1440: 1000mm radius of the curve's focal point = 39.4" view distance = ~ 62 PPD <---- minimum 60 PPD for heavily massaged text sub-sampling and aggressive AA to compensate enough
. . . . . . . . . .
I'd rather have a 48" 4k with a 1000R curve. At that 1000mm radius or focal point of the curve you'd be sitting ~ 39.5" away which is ~70 PPD on a 48" 4k. The screen is also a little larger so slightly more immersive at that same curve radius, and you'd be getting 4k worth of desktop real-estate for apps/windows as well as being able to run 4k media 1:1. That'd be great for my purposes.
I'd really like a 55" or 65" curved 8k where I'd run things windowed or full screen scaled to 8k w/ DLSS+frame insertion but I doubt that would be in OLED any time soon..
Always tradeoffs...
I remember. I ran a FW900 for several years in the early 2000's. I wouldn't trade that screen size, rez, the 1/2 hour+ warm up period, the tweaking/tightening under the hood, eventual unavoidable blooming or dimming of the screen more and more with age, and the resulting eyestrain, power/radiation, weight and bulk. 120Hz VRR + HDR on a large 4k OLED screen is way better.
Invidividual objects aren't a big problem.. Motion blur of the whole viewport when moving it at speed is annoying though. Like you said, most people probably don't even register when they are moving the screen that fast while it is blurred because they are so numb to it.
To me BFI is written off at this point. No HDR. It also usually means throwing out using higher graphics settings. Most people use VRR/g-sync/free-sync to squeeze a little higher frame rate range and ride the roller coaster of frame rates. BFI works best at very high frame rate minimums above the max Hz of the display (or capped Hz of the display). strobing is eye fatiguing to me after some time too, even if you can't conciously "see" the strobing. Especially 100hz and less strobes. (kind of like pwm in a sense even if not varying).
If they are going to concentrate on something I think it should be something like putting nvidia hardware for DLSS + frame insertion on the displays themselves in order to avoid bandwidth limitations. Then work on producing higher Hz, up to 1000hz OLEDs where you would transmit to them say 100fps solid to be upscaled and operated on x10 on the display, or 125fps solid to be upscaled and operated on x8 on the display, for 1000fps at 1000Hz via frame insertion/interpolation.
Currently I think DLSS 3 is only inserting 1 frame, which would be your frame rate x2 if every other frame.
1000fps at 1000Hz is essentially "zero" blur (1px).
. . . . .
That said, several of the recent replies had concentrated more on missing the motion articulation/smoothness they gained near or at 165fps at 165Hz as opposed to 120fpsHz cap rather than any increase in motion clarity/blur reduction. Motion articulation/smoothness will have diminishing gains after a point but they said they miss it when they drop from 165fpsHz to 120fpsHz so the gains haven't diminished yet by that point apparently.
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Enhanced Interrogator
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Monitor-side frame interpolation will never be good, especially with the type of dynamic content you have in a video game
DLSS 3 frame amplification might be a solution but we don’t know for sure yet, and it can only double frame rate at best. So BFI would still be a huge advantage in combination
I’m just saying it’s something we have to pressure monitor makers into including. Because honestly only a fraction of the enthusiast market even understands what it is and why it works.
DLSS 3 frame amplification might be a solution but we don’t know for sure yet, and it can only double frame rate at best. So BFI would still be a huge advantage in combination
I’m just saying it’s something we have to pressure monitor makers into including. Because honestly only a fraction of the enthusiast market even understands what it is and why it works.
elvn
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At some point you'd probably have to do it (AI upscaling and frame insertions) monitor side due to bandwidth limitations of very high resolutions * extreme frame rates. Unless we got 8k 1000hz bandwidth cable and ports.
MistaSparkul
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Yeah even BenQ, who is known for their backlight strobing tech in their monitors with DyAc+ doesn't seem interested in BFI for OLEDs. On the product page for their 48" OLED monitor there is no mention of DyAc+ or any form of BFI. So if the one monitor company that pushes for backlight strobing doesn't have any interest in combining it with OLED, then there is little hope that anybody else will.
Enhanced Interrogator
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I imagine that's probably more of a LG-side limitation on the panel.
I did email BenQ about it, and they confirmed it doesn't do any BFI. They did say they's forward my interest to the dev team though. Maybe more of us should just be occasionally dropping hints in their discords, social media, and inboxes.
MistaSparkul
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The last section about input latency is why we need higher than 120Hz refresh rates to really make the most use out of DLSS 3. Really good video, recommend a full watch if you have the time.
Enhanced Interrogator
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It's going to look bad though, because it doesn't have motion vectors to work with.
You can see a direct comparison here between DLSS3 and Adobe AI upscaling, at the timestamp:
And like I said, DLSS3 can only double a frame rate at best So if you're running 80fps internal, that's 160fps. 120fps to 240fps, and so on.
So considering we're never going to see 1000fps in demanding games, we need BFI.
And don't forget, most people aren't buying 4080s and 4090s. They're buying RX 580s and GTX 1660s. So most of the market will always be running 60-120, on a good day, and those absolutely need BFI
Astral Abyss
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BFI is shit. There, I said it. It's dim AF and it messes with my eyes.
Enhanced Interrogator
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It doesn't mess with everybody's eyes. So it's a good feature for people who aren't bothered by the subtle flicker.
And yeah, and OLED isn't in a place yet where BFI can be used with HDR, but it's plenty brightness for SDR
elvn
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without frame duplication/insertion tech.
DLSS now only does 1 frame, that doesn't mean (~AI) tech advancements in the future won't be able to do more and better. I was talking about what they could invest in to get higher frame rates as well as advancing toward oled's potential 1000Hz capability, so we'd be able to utilize it - instead of pwm's clunky cousin BFI in a HDR era.
Enhanced Interrogator
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But why can't we do both? Strobing now, until someone develops AI that can take 100fps and turn it into 1000fps without tons of noticeable artifacts
Happy Hopping
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refresh my memory, for those who own the Asus, what do they really gain from 120Hz to 128Hz anyway?
Having said that, at newegg, it seems RTX3050 is pretty much the same price as RTX2060
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KazeoHin
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A blurry image with washed out blacks.
MistaSparkul
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The problem is that interpolation is going to cause added input latency as already demonstrated by multiple sources like DF and HUB which means it's only going to be 100% viable for single player games. And before you start talking about server tick rates and how an extra +20-30ms of input latency isn't going to affect your performance unless you are playing on a LAN, you should probably watch this video and try out the test:
I'm pretty certain the majority of people will be able to notice an increase of 20-30ms input lag even if they are not a seasoned competitive player. It's not about "you seeing an enemy 30ms later" or "your input to the game server being behind by 30ms or w/e" it's about the your hand-eye coordination that's now being thrown off by the interpolation lag.
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I got a LG C2 42" OLED from Amazon during the recent prime sale and hooked it up tonight. It has a blue tinge on left and right on a white screen with a white background like a browser or notepad, and I can even see it a bit on this hardforum page as the white text on the far left and far right is slightly different color than the white text in the center.
Here’s a white notepad for reference
Is white uniformity imperfection something that is normal on these OLED displays? It isn't terrible, and maybe I'm being too picky, but I'm not enamored about that aspect of this monitor. Otherwise it looks fantastic! Black levels, coming from a 34" Alienware IPS LCD are in a different league all together.
Is this something that might improve with a bit of break-in or would you return it? If I wasn’t using it as a desktop monitor I doubt I’d ever notice with streaming media and cinema type content.
This is my first OLED and I’m not sure how picky I should be about uniformity — I’m thinking this might be something that bothers me a bit though and disparages my ongoing enjoyment of the OLED monitor if I can’t get it fixed.
Here’s a white notepad for reference
Is white uniformity imperfection something that is normal on these OLED displays? It isn't terrible, and maybe I'm being too picky, but I'm not enamored about that aspect of this monitor. Otherwise it looks fantastic! Black levels, coming from a 34" Alienware IPS LCD are in a different league all together.
Is this something that might improve with a bit of break-in or would you return it? If I wasn’t using it as a desktop monitor I doubt I’d ever notice with streaming media and cinema type content.
This is my first OLED and I’m not sure how picky I should be about uniformity — I’m thinking this might be something that bothers me a bit though and disparages my ongoing enjoyment of the OLED monitor if I can’t get it fixed.
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This is perfectly normal for LG OLEDs afaik and you are unlikely to notice the issue unless you have this exact scenario, white background on whole screen.
From Rtings review: "The LG C2 42 has an excellent horizontal viewing angle. The image remains consistent from the sides, but the colors shift, so it isn't ideal if you're using it for photo editing and need to see accurate colors from the side."
elvn
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Not arguing that. 30ms is bad. They would def have to work on that.
The idea is to theoretically bypass the port and cable bandwidth bottleneck so that we could do frame insertion/duplilication/time warp on the display end in order to get upwards toward 10000Hz oled displays with 1000fps after AI operations, even if only sending 120fps - 125fps (hdmi 2.1 4k native) to be operated on x8 or 200fps (dp2.0) x 5 over the line to be operated on x5. Some VR headsets already do some time warp to double frame rates even when streaming games from pc/steam. We need more multiples and hopefully keep the latency down. It's definitely playable in vr.
Dont get too picky about the unifirmity of the OLED, or you might find yourself disappointed
Just skip the test and if nothing bothers you in day to day use, then it's all good. The positives overweight that disadvantage with great margin. Also, what you see, might rather be viewing angles, than uniformity.
Lateralus
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Reminds me of the old days of testing for dead pixels and returning monitors because of 1-2 that you'd never notice in actual use, lol. Just use it.
Except you can see it. I didn’t start out looking for problems.
The color is bluer on the sides and on a PC with white backgrounds common that’s noticeable. Also the most normal color is about 35-40% of the way left instead of in the middle so it shouldn’t be anything to do with viewing angles else that most natural white would be centered. Two people on AVSforum said theirs started out more blue on the sides and it went away over 2-3 weeks of use. It’s an Amazon purchase so I guess I’ll just see how it fares the next couple weeks and if doesn’t get better I’ll return it, and buy later when the technology improves or another sale comes around. I use my PC a lot and I think this will bother me over time. The text is a different color on the left and right side on hardforum’s webpage. That seems a fault (albeit arguably slight) that simply shouldn’t be for a premium monitor experience (and cost). LG fully knows people will use this as a PC monitor, and panel uniformity is a characteristic that should be reasonably clean. I’m disheartened to read that is not necessarily the case (that OLED has typically good and reliable panel uniformity)
Same question posed to the group over at avsforum here and some varied responses. Post 4711.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/20...-no-price-talk.3250717/page-236#post-62037416
The color is bluer on the sides and on a PC with white backgrounds common that’s noticeable. Also the most normal color is about 35-40% of the way left instead of in the middle so it shouldn’t be anything to do with viewing angles else that most natural white would be centered. Two people on AVSforum said theirs started out more blue on the sides and it went away over 2-3 weeks of use. It’s an Amazon purchase so I guess I’ll just see how it fares the next couple weeks and if doesn’t get better I’ll return it, and buy later when the technology improves or another sale comes around. I use my PC a lot and I think this will bother me over time. The text is a different color on the left and right side on hardforum’s webpage. That seems a fault (albeit arguably slight) that simply shouldn’t be for a premium monitor experience (and cost). LG fully knows people will use this as a PC monitor, and panel uniformity is a characteristic that should be reasonably clean. I’m disheartened to read that is not necessarily the case (that OLED has typically good and reliable panel uniformity)
Same question posed to the group over at avsforum here and some varied responses. Post 4711.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/20...-no-price-talk.3250717/page-236#post-62037416
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Lateralus
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Sorry man, not trying to minimize the issue for you. I have the 48CX (so it should be exacerbated over the 42") and yeah, when I pulled up a full white screen window just now, which I really never do, the edges are ever-so-slightly blue-white.
I use dark themes as much as possible and don't see it in day to day use. The pros heavily outweigh any minor cons like that for me. But the way I use it and what is bothersome to me might be different than for you. I could never stand TN's poor viewing angles but was never bothered by the "black crush" in VA panels that occupied so many forum posts. I was happier with VA's better contrast and blacks than IPS's viewing angles and response times.
Well, in this particular case white background is asking for it. ))
MistaSparkul
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Uniformity will vary from unit to unit. It is possible that you got one with worst than average uniformity, or you could be more sensitive to it, or perhaps it's both. Either way if it really bothers you in day to day normal use I would suggest exchanging it for a another one and see if it's any better to live with before throwing in the towel.