3700X vs 3800X

IdiotInCharge

IdiotInCharge

NVIDIA SHILL
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Messages
14,675
d3athf1sh said:
2) why would you want a 6 core when next year all the new consoles will 8 core Zen chips in them? look for that to be in the system requirements for upcoming games in 2020 and beyond.
Click to expand...

I don't find this argument too convincing on the whole- while the rough building blocks for the consoles will be similar, the details will be all different. However, when it comes to the desktop, you'd want eight SMT cores (sixteen threads) just to keep your 0.1% lows from being impacted by background stuff, so yeah, get eight SMT cores, just not because consoles are coming with that :).
 
S

Snowdog

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
11,262
IdiotInCharge said:
I don't find this argument too convincing on the whole- while the rough building blocks for the consoles will be similar, the details will be all different. However, when it comes to the desktop, you'd want eight SMT cores (sixteen threads) just to keep your 0.1% lows from being impacted by background stuff, so yeah, get eight SMT cores, just not because consoles are coming with that :).
Click to expand...

If background stuff is having an impact, you are doing it wrong.
 
IdiotInCharge

IdiotInCharge

NVIDIA SHILL
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Messages
14,675
Snowdog said:
If background stuff is having an impact, you are doing it wrong.
Click to expand...

Well, that's every average gamer. Including me, because the cost for a few more cores is negligible compared to having to 'profile' for games, even though gaming is the most intensive thing I do. I'm just not going to strip my current session down to benchmark mode every time I fire up a game, and I don't expect most to do that either.


[also, you're right]
 
S

Snowdog

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
11,262
IdiotInCharge said:
Well, that's every average gamer. Including me, because the cost for a few more cores is negligible compared to having to 'profile' for games, even though gaming is the most intensive thing I do. I'm just not going to strip my current session down to benchmark mode every time I fire up a game, and I don't expect most to do that either.

[also, you're right]
Click to expand...

Really all you have to do is set your updates/virus checks to happen when you aren't gaming. I haven't had any noticeable background impact to gaming (or anything) from backgrounds stuff in years, and I am running an old C2Q 4C/4T.
 
J

JCNiest5

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 25, 2005
Messages
4,069
Link said:
You can still return or exchange open box cpu at MC. Just make sure to clean it up with no bent pins.
Click to expand...
Yeap, that's exactly what I did on the 15th day of the return/exchange policy. Was running out of time, thinking I would have to just settle with the 3700x. Good thing I checked everyday.
 
IdiotInCharge

IdiotInCharge

NVIDIA SHILL
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Messages
14,675
For US$70, assuming both available at MSRP, the 3800X doesn't seem like a bad buy for an enthusiast with great cooling.
 
C

ccityinstaller

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
4,241
IdiotInCharge said:
For US$70, assuming both available at MSRP, the 3800X doesn't seem like a bad buy for an enthusiast with great cooling.
Click to expand...


I would have most likely spent the extra $70 had the 3800x been available on the 7th. It wasn't so I went with the 3700x.

I have the rad space to cool a 3800x to the point that it is worth the extra money IMO, unless I got a complete dud silicon wise.



I am going to see what the 3700x does under water and go from there. Based on its air Performance, it seems to be a good chip so we will see.
 
A

antsh

n00b
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
27
Maxx said:
It's possible to use PBO to unlock the TDP limits of the 3700X. Here are the differences.

65W TDP (3700X) - 88W total package power (PPT), 60A TDC (thermal current), 90A EDC (electrical current).
105W TDP (3800X) - 142W, 95A, 140A

What you can do is run PBO (which voids your warranty) on the 3700X and dial in these settings. There's also an offset value that's not related to PBO you can set up to +200 MHz to hit higher boost clocks, like to match the 3800X's 100 MHz higher single-core maximum boost, but this is not currently working correctly. From what I read it can be fixed.

So to give you a rundown of how this works...

3700X (stock) - I hit 4050 all-core, 4400 single-core with JEDEC memory (2666). I'm limited by TDP which I can remove with PBO, to say 4100 all-core, as this allows the CPU to supply more voltage (up to 1.325V load). Nominally idle or single-core voltage is 1.50V which is normal as ampage is lower. If I then OC my memory and the infinity fabric to say, CL16/3600, I then drop down to 4000 AC and 4300 SC. This is because you're taxing the IMC and I/O die much more. If I then use the offset I hit 4075 AC and 4275 SC (single-core goes down...this is part of the bug).

If you've followed me so far, the difference between the 3800X and 3700X is that the 3800X doesn't have to use PBO/AOC to override TDP limits and therefore can maintain better single-core boost in general (AOC/offset is broken) but in real world terms, like gaming, you're going to be ~4.2 all-core either way, the difference is minimal (<2% @ stock). With tweaking the values get very close. Both come with the same stock cooler otherwise.

I'm elaborating this out because I don't think most people understand how these CPUs work, including many reviewers. If you want the best out-of-the-box experience, get the 3800X and do XMP/DOCP. If you are willing to tweak the 3700X will get you nearly as far. You're ultimately limited by thermals and FIT (silicon fitness).

As a side note, if your intention is to manual OC this does not apply. It's currently unknown if the 3800X is better-binned but with manual OC you're dealing MUCH more with silicon lottery so it might be worth the $ to get a leg up simply.
Click to expand...

Sorry to bring this up again, but I am assuming this is something that needs to be changed in the BIOS, as AMD master doesn't let you raise the PPT past 88W for the 3700X? Any idea if an ASUS X570 Gaming-F allows this out of spec PPT change?
 
M

Maxx

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 31, 2003
Messages
1,648
antsh said:
Sorry to bring this up again, but I am assuming this is something that needs to be changed in the BIOS, as AMD master doesn't let you raise the PPT past 88W for the 3700X? Any idea if an ASUS X570 Gaming-F allows this out of spec PPT change?
Click to expand...

I never use Ryzen Master, it has the tendency of over-volting with PBO if you're not careful, you absolutely want to set it in the BIOS. And yes it's a simple matter of 142W, 95A, 140A, and +200 MHz, although honestly any values above a certain amount will suffice depending on where your chip is limited. You can set it to the max for all of them and it won't matter since the silicon fitness will still throttle the chip with the voltage/temperature curve. Your board should have this option (maybe under CBS?)
 
T

tangoseal

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Messages
9,440
Hrmm not gonna back read 3 pages of off topic stuff but.... 3800x over 3700x is a complete waste of money.

3700x is a mean 8 core son of a bitch!
 
D

DooLocsta

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
1,770
tangoseal said:
Hrmm not gonna back read 3 pages of off topic stuff but.... 3800x over 3700x is a complete waste of money.

3700x is a mean 8 core son of a bitch!
Click to expand...

Right now the price difference between the 2 is $10, does that make a difference? I am buying one or the other for my work rig in the next day or so.
 
T

tangoseal

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Messages
9,440
DooLocsta said:
Right now the price difference between the 2 is $10, does that make a difference? I am buying one or the other for my work rig in the next day or so.
Click to expand...

well they werent at release so go with the bigger one obviously.

I dont keep up with the prices lately. Have no need too.
 
H

hititnquitit

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Messages
2,096
May as well nab the 3800x if thats how small the difference is. You cant go wrong with either tho.
 
D

drescherjm

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
14,937
tangoseal said:
You're gonna LOVE the 3800x
Click to expand...

I am very happy with my 3700X I just installed last week at work. I did not have the ability to choose components. Although I did swap in a new 1TB NVMe drive + an additional 1TB SATA SSD (already had) and swap out the 256GB SSD the system had..
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top