24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

Strat_84

Limp Gawd
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Then came his Dell P1130 and (also a rebrand) Sun Microsystems GDM-5510. The P1130 has a really amazing picture, it had a clear greenish tint when first powered up, but I was able to get rid of it in the menus. The colors are perfect now, but quite a few color settings are either bottomed out or maxed out, with no further margin of adjustments. So I will have to look into that, see if I can fix that issue at the hardware level instead of using the menus to compensate (I hope it's not the tube...). The same goes with the GDM-5510, except this one is way worse, and I the OSD settings are not enoug to eliminate the greenish tint. Another monitor to try and fix, but I know it will look amazing if it can be fixed.
There's one I recovered which also wasn't that good regarding colors. I replaced the capacitors of the neck board and added a couple of extra ground connexions to the chassis (the grounding tracks are too thin, the F520 has the same track pattern except it is dual layer with a single layer dedicated to grounding). The display is as good as new now. The coupling electrolytics on the R/G/B path may not be top quality on this model, and with aging they seem to start behaving differently depending on the color line (despite being identical in the first place).

Also, it makes a difference if your P1130 is made in Japan or made in Mexico. The Mexico ones have a simplified yoke (made in China :sick:), and it apparently hurts convergence accuracy. The Japanese ones have a more complex yoke made in Japan, and I haven't noticed any issue regarding convergence on these.
 

etienne51

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There's one I recovered which also wasn't that good regarding colors. I replaced the capacitors of the neck board and added a couple of extra ground connexions to the chassis (the grounding tracks are too thin, the F520 has the same track pattern except it is dual layer with a single layer dedicated to grounding). The display is as good as new now. The coupling electrolytics on the R/G/B path may not be top quality on this model, and with aging they seem to start behaving differently depending on the color line (despite being identical in the first place).
Thanks! This is a really good starting point for me to start working on both the Sun and the P1130 monitors. Colors shifting seems to be quite a common issue across different models, most of the time green it seems, and also red for one monitor. I'll start by adding more grounding wires to see how it affects the display, curious to see the results. Then I'm gonna make a list of capacitors to order so I can do a proper recap of the neck board.

Also, it makes a difference if your P1130 is made in Japan or made in Mexico. The Mexico ones have a simplified yoke (made in China :sick:), and it apparently hurts convergence accuracy. The Japanese ones have a more complex yoke made in Japan, and I haven't noticed any issue regarding convergence on these.
Unfortunately both the P1130 and the Sun are made in Mexico. But now I'm curious about the made in Japan models :D
 

Strat_84

Limp Gawd
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Thanks! This is a really good starting point for me to start working on both the Sun and the P1130 monitors. Colors shifting seems to be quite a common issue across different models, most of the time green it seems, and also red for one monitor. I'll start by adding more grounding wires to see how it affects the display, curious to see the results. Then I'm gonna make a list of capacitors to order so I can do a proper recap of the neck board.
Actually, the extra grounding wires were more a personnal experiment than a known answer to a known issue. It may have increased a bit the display accuracy by reducing the noise in the signals, and also increased the brightness stability (there were unusual variations in measurements compared to other screens during a Windas WPB for example). But that's all.
Regarding the color issues, your top of the list suspects are the electrolytic coupling capacitors on each color line (C152-252-352, C120-220-320). :)
 

SH1

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Well, long time no posting but I'm amazed everytime I come here once in a while and see all you guys still active and passionate about CRTs!

Since the days I got my FW900 back in 2015 nothing much changed until quite recently, about a year ago. Being in Reunion Island with absolutely no high end CRTs for sale locally and the shipping costs going up like crazy year after year, I thought that FW900 would be the one and only CRT I'd be able to get. And it was starting to scare me years ago with a potential flyback issue, so I didn't want to use it too much (it's still working just fine to this day, fortunately).

But recently I met a friend locally who was interested in retro gaming, and after showing him the FW900 we both started looking at ways to get some more great CRTs shipped here. Fortunately we we able to get quite a few monitors shipped via maritime freight over the course of a year so far, splitting the shipping costs.

View attachment 475054

At first we were really baffled at how the prices of monitors went absolutely through the roof, but overall after waiting a bit we managed to get acceptable prices. Sadly some were still quite expensive but with really low hours and in great condition.

If I remember right, my friend first got a Mitsubishi 230SB and I managed to find a LaCie Electron Blue IV 22" in nice condition, with its hood but no stand. These were a bit too expensive though, but at the time we didn't really know what to except in terms of availability and prices. Unfortunately the 230SB ended up having a heavy redish tint that was not adjustable from the menu. So more work will be needed on this one.

After looking for some time I ended up finding a Iiyama Vision Master Pro 514 really cheap, and it seemed to have really high brightness on the seller's photos, so I jumped on that one. The case was quite a bit yellowed though. I had an eye on both the 454 and 514 after reading in this very thread about the potential "uncapped" vertical refresh rate. I can confirm that, I was able to reach refresh rated in the 400Hz range with really small resolutions (240p if I remember right, just for testing!). So I'm really happy with that monitor, but I have to admit the way it handles resolution changes and stuff, it's really "raw/violent". But it works perfectly though. I once had an issue with the deflection though, the picture shrank a lot and had heavy pincushion distortion. I powered it off and on again after a few minutes, and it was perfect again. I had no issues after that. Weird. I might want to do a recap on that one before it goes boom. I don't know, it's a great monitor and better be safe.

View attachment 475049

Then the time went by, and my friend managed to get a couple Electron Blue IV 22" with < 8k hours shipped in wooden crates, and also later a 2030SB (rebranded LaCie). All working perfectly. We are still waiting on the last LaCie to arrive, the one with less hours (around 5k!), it should also work just fine. Really amazing monitors!
Below are my FW900 and Electron Blue, alongside my friends Electron Blue. :D

View attachment 475055

Later he also got a Iiyama Vision Master Pro 510, which has an great picture, but a bit less precise aperture grille than the others. If I'm not mistaken, this one has a small issue, sometimes the screen randomly flashes on/off for a fraction of a second, but it happens rarely. I still have to try and fix it at some point if possible. We took this one apart completely for cleaning, just it case it would fix the issue, but it did not. We also had to remove the anti glare, sadly, as it was way too scratched up.

View attachment 475056

Then came his Dell P1130 and (also a rebrand) Sun Microsystems GDM-5510. The P1130 has a really amazing picture, it had a clear greenish tint when first powered up, but I was able to get rid of it in the menus. The colors are perfect now, but quite a few color settings are either bottomed out or maxed out, with no further margin of adjustments. So I will have to look into that, see if I can fix that issue at the hardware level instead of using the menus to compensate (I hope it's not the tube...). The same goes with the GDM-5510, except this one is way worse, and I the OSD settings are not enoug to eliminate the greenish tint. Another monitor to try and fix, but I know it will look amazing if it can be fixed.

All those monitors were shipped without any issue whatsoever. From the seller to a friend and then via maritime freight to us. Not a scratch... except for one monitor. It was a 19" Electron Blue IV I bought from a seller who didn't even bother to pack it well when my friend and I did the absolute best we could to help him with the packaging. We send all the necessary packing material to the seller, and when the package arrived, there was pretty much no packing material at all inside. The seller threw it all away, or kept it for him, I have no idea what happenned on this one. The back of the monitor was broken, fortunately the tube itself seems intact, but I had to bridge some traces on the boards that were bent (neck board mainly). Unfortunately no luck with this one, it's still not working. So I'll have a lot of work to do on this one, but I'm not sure I'll be able to fix it at all.

View attachment 475057

Last but not least! Just a few months ago my friend found a dirt cheap... Sony GDM-F520 for sale! We've been looking for this monitor for so long so he went ahead and got it. It was sold in working condition, with some scratches on the bezel but working fine. I was really excited to see it with my own eyes, but I was still looking for one myself. I've been looking for a F520 since I got my FW900 back in 2015!

Well... less than a week later, I found one guy selling another F520!! But this time it was pretty expensive but still at the very limit of what I thought was affordable for me. I jumped on it anyway, as it was in absolute pristine condition, no scratches anywhere, and the seller still had the original box and packing material. We received both F520s a few weeks ago, both working perfectly fine. At the first power up it was a bit scary since both monitors ended up having a very slight greenish tint, but nothing the OSD couldn't easily fix.

View attachment 475038

Here are the two F520s! Mine on the left, and my friends one on the right on the photo above.

View attachment 475039

Here is the internals of my F520 without any cleaning done whatsoever. It is really clean, and I assume it wasn't used a whole lot!
The focus is absolutely dead on (with the exception of the top left corner, where it's very very slightly blurry), and so is the convergence (with the exception of the bottom right corner, but it's barely noticeable).

As usual with all monitors Sony (or rebranded), I will run WinDAS and at least do a backup of the original configuration and keep it in a safe place. Then I will go through the WPB procedure for both F520s. I already ran the full geometry calibration for my friend's F520, and it is now looking close to perfect.
I'm still having a really hard time with the convergence, so I ended up restoring a backup before messing with it. It was better before, and honestly it doesn't really need adjustment, so I'll leave it the way it is... :meh:
I still have to go through the color calibration process, since the monitor had that slight greenish tint and fixing it myself in the OSD messed with the proper color calibration as well.

As of yet, no FW900 showed up at an acceptable price unfortunately, but we are not giving up yet! :ROFLMAO:

Now, about the tools!

Sadly my DTP-94 I used back in 2015 is now dead for no visible reason. I didn't use it at all for the past few years, and now I plug it in and it is just not detected at all by any of the computers I've tried it on. So I'm now waiting for another replacement one.

For the good news though, again since 2015 I was eying the Quantum Data 801GG, after hearing jbltecnicspro mention it a few times here! It's been such a long time, I had just given up on the idea of finding one for sale, let alone for a good price. Well, not long after finding the F520s, I did find one for sale for a really good price! I jumped on it of course.
I used it for the geometry calibration of the F520, and I will also use it for the color calibration when I get my replacement DTP-94. Having WinDAS automatically control the signal generator via the serial port and output the matching resolutions needed for the calibration process has made the calibration process a whole lot easier! I will soon have to go through the calibration of my FW900 for the second time (issues I had with the flyback back in the days threw my calibration off), and I'll see how the 801GG handles the higher resolutions needed.

Alright, to wrap things up, here is a photo of half of the CRT collection, along with the tools! ;)

View attachment 475044

The two 14" PVMs are unfortunately not working and need fixing. We found these locally a couple weeks ago sold as non working units. The top one is a PVM-1454QM and the bottom one is a PVM-1442QM.

The tiny Sony on the top shelf is, if I'm not mistaken, the smallest Trinitron tube ever made. It's a 3.7" tiny TV, the Sony Dictavision KV-4100 manufactured in the early 80's which also includes a AM/FM radio and a microcassette dictation recorder.

Well, lots of work for the upcoming months, when I find the time to dive into these and try to fix them. :p I'll probably be asking you guys for some advice later on, haha.
What do you think of the F520? Pretty sure the coating is baked on the glass. Would treat as delicate coated optics.

The 510 I guess had a filter film that could be removed? (We had one in the family for years, but I wasn't aware of such things back then.)

Anyway, awesome collection there!
 

cdoublejj

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Wrong one, you want this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Icybox-HDMI-Active-Convertor-Splitter/dp/B01NAWRQF1

Amazon UK ships to the US.

And last year I posted the Sunix firmware, which has a slightly higher max pixel clock. Like it can do 2880x2160 @ 60hz, but I think the firmware that comes with the Icy Box only goes to about 2560x1920 or so. They're the same hardware


i want to run 2304x1440 @ ??hz i have this icydock in my cart. you saying i should update my sunnix firmware by going back a few months in this thread?

i think its important to note the sunix dpu3000 doest not behave the same on all systems, if i am not mistaken, you use an AMD video card, i use and NVIDIA one, i personally never had isuess using resolutions such 2048 x 1536, (can post video proof if interested) the only weird thing here is that when i switch to that resolution on my dpu3000 it takes longer than any other resolution to switch, the monitor display a "no input signal" for about a second, but finaly switches to 2048 x 1536, stable and with no issues,

also in my case i have figured that creating certain desired custom resolutions/refresh rates from the nvidia control panel, with GFT standard, not from any other utility like the CRU (custom resolution utility) and ensuring those created resolution/refreshes are not also present in the CRU utility, cure the screen swapping, screen line trembling for those desired resolutions created from the NV control panel.

i think, i may be wrong, that screen swaping on the sunix can occur since this adapter is primary a splitter, it maybe was made to split certain resolutions, it was programmed asuming some resolutons are meant to be used as split on multiple screens, so it maybe thinks its using more than 1 display and attempts to split the image from one to another display, but creating the desire resolution in a diffrenter way, maybe makes the sunix to not recognize it as an "multi display splitting resolution" and wont attemp to split it, maybe this explain why custom creating some resolutions, that swapping thing stops ocurring.

it seems to me the sunix have more issues with AMD cards than NVIDIA ones

my dpu3000 unit was bought in early 2019, and has been never been firmware updated, sad the dpu3000 seems to be discontinued some time ago, i dont know it that Icybox equivalent adapter would give same results,

also mine does NOT work without USB power




the sunix dpu3000 can achieve that, (seems disconinued unfortunately, maybe second hand one can be found, it has a pixel clock up to 500 mhz, from my test it go max to 539 mhz, i guess the Icybox equivalent adapter should also, and seems to be available, the Startech DP2VGAHD20 adaptar seems to, not so high pixel clock but enought to achieve that, i suggest you look for posts from user "derupter" in this forum, he regulary posts info about best adapters to use with analog CRT monitors.

i have an MXM slot Nvidia 980 i get the weirdness. is 2304x1440 too much to ask?


EDIT: bought the icydock it's about what i paid for the sunnix a few years back. even if it isn't it it should make for a spare. IDK what it's cons are.
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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i want to run 2304x1440 @ ??hz i have this icydock in my cart. you saying i should update my sunnix firmware by going back a few months in this thread?




EDIT: bought the icydock it's about what i paid for the sunnix a few years back. even if it isn't it it should make for a spare. IDK what it's cons are.

I found the Sunix firmware can hit a slightly higher pixel clock. Like I'm able to run 2880x2160 and 3328x1872 with the Sunix firmware but not on the Icybox firmware.

But from what I can tell, the two firmware are otherwise the same, for VGA connections anyway.

Anyway, I posted both firmware here in a zip if you need it. There could be more firmware versions out there though. Use the updating tool to see which version you have, and make a copy of it if it's different. https://hardforum.com/threads/24-wi...-ebay-arrived-comments.952788/post-1045084931
 
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Would there be any interest in a brand new 30", 16:10, 0.08 dot pitch, 400kHz horizontal, 300Hz vertical CRT for $8000? It would be capable of 8K 7680x4800 at 80Hz.

I may be able to supply this monitor soon, but nothing is certain yet.
You must have had some sort of big miscommunication with this supplier, like perhaps something was clearly lost in translation.

There is essentially nobody left on this planet who knows how to properly build & wind a brand new yoke (let alone one to meet these insanely high specifications)… there’s also essentially nobody left who has access to all the equipment needed to assemble said yokes. Or the rest of the CRT, particularly the glass tube itself.

Perhaps this manufacturer you were speaking to thought you were asking them about a panel display.
 

cesarioFL71

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You must have had some sort of big miscommunication with this supplier, like perhaps something was clearly lost in translation.

There is essentially nobody left on this planet who knows how to properly build & wind a brand new yoke (let alone one to meet these insanely high specifications)… there’s also essentially nobody left who has access to all the equipment needed to assemble said yokes. Or the rest of the CRT, particularly the glass tube itself.

Perhaps this manufacturer you were speaking to thought you were asking them about a panel display.
The poster in question has spread his brand of FUD for years and always with the same result.....nada! Not quite sure if he's just seeking attention or perhaps there's some sort of mental issue there......
 
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The poster in question has spread his brand of FUD for years and always with the same result.....nada! Not quite sure if he's just seeking attention or perhaps there's some sort of mental issue there......
Mm, yeah, I saw someone had alluded to something like that...

Anyway, on a lighter note! My friend is still doing some testing, but has confirmed 345MHz from my Tripp-Lite HDMI to VGA I lent to him
https://www.tripplite.com/2-port-hdmi-to-vga-and-audio-adapter-1080p-taa~p13106n2vau
However, he seems to be having some image smearing and image quality issues, at all bandwidths... maybe there's a workaround. I'm gonna ask him to try something like a nicer PSU with a higher amperage. If anyone has another suggestion, like some sorta simple modification, that would be great! This is an interesting thread about modding a HDMI to VGA DAC - https://repairalmostanything.com/thread/757/improving-moome-v3-ext-box

So yeah, finally verified a HDMI to VGA that will pass 2560x1440p 60Hz! That res is right around 330MHz. Therefore, the thing should also work great with crazy-high interlaced resolutions in Win10... something the DP to VGAs apparently can not do!
 
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Enhanced Interrogator

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No GPU made in the past 4 years supports interlaced over any connection.

So if you want interlaced, the only option is to use a secondary GPU with analog out, and hope the game engine does OK with that configuration
 
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No GPU made in the past 4 years supports interlaced over any connection.

So if you want interlaced, the only option is to use a secondary GPU with analog out, and hope the game engine does OK with that configuration

Mm, didn't know that. I have never had a computer that is even remotely close to modern standards, right now I just have a shitty Dell OptiPlex with a Radeon HD5450 haha. I'm just happy to have finally tracked down a (potentially) promising higher-bandwidth *HDMI* DAC for people to try out! I also have a Vention AFVHB coming in the mail which I am going to delve further into, eventually. Apparently one person here has tried it and ran into issues when exceeding 247MHz; gonna see if I can work around that :]


But yeah, the Tripp-Lite being able to handle 347MHz is very substantial for a HDMI DAC! I have not heard of any others that can make it that high. The chipset handling the conversion is a EP94Z1E - but there’s also several other chips in there, on both sides of the PCB. Apparently the IcyBox HDMI to VGA (or at least one of them) uses that chipset. That one doesn’t look to have the option for an external PSU, though.
 
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3dfan

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i want to run 2304x1440 @ ??hz i have this icydock in my cart. you saying i should update my sunnix firmware by going back a few months in this thread?



i have an MXM slot Nvidia 980 i get the weirdness. is 2304x1440 too much to ask?


EDIT: bought the icydock it's about what i paid for the sunnix a few years back. even if it isn't it it should make for a spare. IDK what it's cons are.
cool, so were you able to achieve the resolution /refresh rates you like with your icybox?

I found the Sunix firmware can hit a slightly higher pixel clock. Like I'm able to run 2880x2160 and 3328x1872 with the Sunix firmware but not on the Icybox firmware.

if you want to test, can i know what is the highest pixel clock you are now being able to achieve with your sunix firmware? the max a was able to reach with mine (no firmware updated) was 539 mhz at 5000x 1283@ 60hz, not an usable resolution really, just used this to reach sunix pixel clock limit just for testing its pixe clock limits.
 

cdoublejj

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https://hardforum.com/threads/24-wi...ived-comments.952788/page-436#post-1044664994

I tested the Startech and Delock at several different resolutions here.
oh man! they all F'n suck! so 1900x1200 is the limit from what i'm reading.

cool, so were you able to achieve the resolution /refresh rates you like with your icybox?



if you want to test, can i know what is the highest pixel clock you are now being able to achieve with your sunix firmware? the max a was able to reach with mine (no firmware updated) was 539 mhz at 5000x 1283@ 60hz, not an usable resolution really, just used this to reach sunix pixel clock limit just for testing its pixe clock limits.
it hasn't even shipped out.
 

etienne51

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What do you think of the F520? Pretty sure the coating is baked on the glass. Would treat as delicate coated optics.
You are correct for the anti glare on the F520. There is no film on this one, unlike the FW900.

_DSC3325.JPG


The sharpness of the F520 is absolutely impressive, overall I've been in awe using this monitor. I didn't use it that much the past few days, but I enjoy the picture quality every time I sit in front of it. I'm a bit sad about the AR film I removed from my FW900, it was a bit scratched up so it was a decision I took back then. It makes this monitor really shine only when the room is pretty dark. I remember someone here did find a good enough anti glare film that could do the job, even though it was not a perfect replacement for the original one. Anyone has infos on that? I'd be interested in trying that out, at least for the experiment, see how it turns out.

Back to the F520, I just spent a couple hours playing on it today, I'll go through the WPB when I get a replacement DTP-94, but with the stock settings (after correcting the greenish tint I had) everything looks almost spot on perfect. Perfect black levels. I did play in a completely dark room, it's a sight to behold. I heard quite a few times this was an impressive monitor, and I didn't think I would be as impressed once again. :D

_DSC3314.JPG


The 510 I guess had a filter film that could be removed? (We had one in the family for years, but I wasn't aware of such things back then.)

Anyway, awesome collection there!
Yes absolutely. We can't really see in the photos how bad the film was, but I remember warning my friend about removing the film, explaining that it would make the monitor difficult to use and appreciate in daylight. I guess it was way too damaged it was not worth keeping anyway.

DSC02590.JPG


Above is before, with the film still on.

DSC02594.JPG


And that's after, pristine smooth glass, but a very light gray screen, like my FW900.

And below we can see the film being removed.

DSC02592.JPG
 

3dfan

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I remember someone here did find a good enough anti glare film that could do the job, even though it was not a perfect replacement for the original one. Anyone has infos on that? I'd be interested in trying that out, at least for the experiment, see how it turns out.

i removed the original antiglare film from my fw900 and installed a car polaized, still using it and happy with it, it was not a perfect installtion, very few remaining bubbles but very few, very small and barely notable, car polarizer was the most similar thing i found to the original i was able to find, but that was bck in 2018 dont know as today if there is someting better
https://hardforum.com/threads/24-wi...-ebay-arrived-comments.952788/post-1043774544
 

etienne51

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i removed the original antiglare film from my fw900 and installed a car polaized, still using it and happy with it, it was not a perfect installtion, very few remaining bubbles but very few, very small and barely notable, car polarizer was the most similar thing i found to the original i was able to find, but that was bck in 2018 dont know as today if there is someting better
https://hardforum.com/threads/24-wi...-ebay-arrived-comments.952788/post-1043774544
Interesting... I did a quick search and found the "3M ARP 320" film that's used for car LCD screens. I'm not sure that's the kind of film you were talking about though.
I'm gonna look around my area and see what I can find in the part of the world I live in.
 

3dfan

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nope, mine was based on car window polarizer, not LCD screens, some pics from the instalation process (wasnt me, i had to pay someone experienced with installing it on windows for cars):

Untitled-1.jpg


a lot of plastic bags to protect monitor electronics from water and shampo needed for the polarizer instalation
 

3dfan

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that installed polarizer is a bit darker than the original but nothing dramatic to fear about cutting peak luminance, and i am able to see clearly and with excelent luminance the monitor screen on a moderated natural lighted room

original is on the right of the picture
 

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Strat_84

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Interesting... I did a quick search and found the "3M ARP 320" film that's used for car LCD screens. I'm not sure that's the kind of film you were talking about though.
I'm gonna look around my area and see what I can find in the part of the world I live in.
Do yourself a favor and ditch that idea ! According to the haze figures it would only turn the display into a blurry nightmare. :depressed:

High resolution screens like these need filters with very low haze. Anything above 2% is an absolute no go, and the good ones are rather below 1% / 0.5%.
 

3dfan

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the windows car polarizing film was a good and cheap solution for me and i would even recomend it, (of course taking care with electronics isolation agains liquids), if there is not better solution availabe which i doubt it is (would love to be able to find the original new), the hard part here for me was to find someone dare to install it since i dindt have the skill to do by myself. just try to find a film as dark as the original, mine has "darkness" value of 50% according to the seller, a bit darker than the original but was the less dark i was able to find, as i said, it allows me to see the screen clearly wth excelent monitor screen luminance on a moderated natural lighted room and also at night with even room bulb lights, i like to use my monitor at its max lumimnance (contrast) levels
 
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jbltecnicspro

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etienne51 yes the 520 be sharp. You can game on it all the way up to max res and it’s fine. I found 1920x1440 to be the sweet spot that I left mine on for games and desktop. That monitor rocked.
 

SH1

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Sorry if this has been asked before and beaten into the ground, but in the interests of my own future reference, do we know which analog card is better for performance on the FW900 as far as the 980 Ti or the Titan X? I would assume Titan but for some reason Passmark has the 980 rated higher?
 

SH1

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Was dreading analog connections disappearing. And sure enough GTX 10 didn't have them. So I picked up a Titan X (Maxwell) used as others were moving on. It was the one that was fully enabled. However, if I recall it had heat issues. And I think it was an Nvidia exclusive. Whereas the 980 Ti was released by multiple vendors probably with some better cooling and clocks. Maybe that's why some of them were faster. The previous owner had fitted mine with a water cooling kit though. And I assume the Titan X will be the faster card with water cooling. (Though I never really pushed mine.)

BTW: So much for the Kantek revolution I had hoped to unleash. :)

(That the FW900 has to be debezeled probably dampened enthusiasm.)
 

rabidz7

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Messages
1,316
Would there be any interest in a brand new 30", 16:10, 0.08 dot pitch, 400kHz horizontal, 300Hz vertical CRT for $8000? It would be capable of 8K 7680x4800 at 80Hz.

I may be able to supply this monitor soon, but nothing is certain yet.
Proof that I reached out to a manufacturer:
They lead me on at first then dropped me. I'm still trying to look for other suppliers, but it seems daunting.
 

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spacediver

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Messages
2,695
BTW: So much for the Kantek revolution I had hoped to unleash. :)

(That the FW900 has to be debezeled probably dampened enthusiasm.)

You did unleash the seeds of a revolution in my own mind. It may be while before I get round to it, but you gave me hope and inspiration :)
 

Strat_84

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Messages
481
Proof that I reached out to a manufacturer:
They lead me on at first then dropped me. I'm still trying to look for other suppliers, but it seems daunting.
Oh come on. :facepalm:

The required components are EOL and no one is going to redesign them with higher specs, no one has the infrastructure or know-how to still build high resolution/big color CRTs. And this is not a Chinese crook who is going to pull this miraculously out of his ... You know, the hole where the sun never shines ?
 

3dfan

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 2, 2016
Messages
229
(That the FW900 has to be debezeled probably dampened enthusiasm.)
i also find that idea very interesting, specialy since it can be easily removed in case you want to use the monitor in a dark room without any coating regardless of the debezeled, the main issue here i see for me is that i find it expensive.
are you completely certain that wont fit without the need of debezeled? i see in you picture that this filter is wider than the monitor screen area so maybe there may be a way to attach it by the remain wide sides of the filter to the monitor without debezeled?

if you want, is it possible to share a picture of your whole monitor screen with that Kantek filter? would be interesnting to see how it looks.
 

rabidz7

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Messages
1,316
Here's a new quote on Alibaba
 

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rabidz7

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
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Possibly have a source:
 

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Chief Blur Buster

Owner of BlurBusters
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
273
Possibly have a source:
Litmus test:

Ask for their factory certifications, e.g. the Chinese certificates and American certificates, along with UL, CE, etc. It's also illegal for a china factory to export certain kinds of equipment to the USA unless the appropriate certifications exist -- e.g. FCC for radio-emitting appliances. CRTs emits a fair amount of interference and they're regulated by FCC -- all CRT tubes sold in the states had an FCC label on them.

Bonus if the factory has a profile (photos of factory and its certifications). There's multiple "LinkedIn-style" websites for chinese factories -- it's very important to vet a china factory -- a lot of businesspeople lose money by not carefully vetting the factory first. Once done, make sure you get others to vet what they sent you -- e.g. some professionals will recognize the special equipment used by former CRT factories, and recognize if the factory has anything resembling it.

Here's a China Supplier checklist for indies who wants to work with Chinese factories:
www.chinacheckup.com/blog/china-supplier-documents

Over the last two decades, China became the world's go-to place for things to be manufactured. For some simple goods, even Kickstarter indies can get into the action by partnering with a China factory for only a few thousand dollars. It's incredible how some middle class individuals in the western world can just spend savings to get an assembly line started in China, at least for reasonably common stuff -- and start a small-batch manufacture of about a thousand units or so.

In the past, this was expensive Henry Ford and Thomas Edison stuff of historic lore from history classrooms in school. But now, temporarily spooling up an assembly line for a small batch goods manufacture is something within the budget of a middle-class individual, as long as they outsource to a factory-country like China. At least for common goods, rebadged goods, or things that utilize existing equipment. Automated circuit-board building robots called pick-and-place machines that automatically solder thousands of surface-mount electronics parts to a blank circuit board. Never before in humankind, one can hire a 100-unit run of custom electronics for so cheap (well, at least less than the cost of purchasing a new car for a lot of stuff, and less than the cost of purchasing a new house for semi-specialized stuff.)

But...

For CRTs, that's a whole other ball of wax at another order of magnitude -- the equipment just doesn't exist anymore at the Chinese factories for hire -- most of them don't yet realize they can't manufacture CRTs because they're not always aware that they are missing the necessary specialized equipment. You may find yourself being quoted for millions of dollars of NRE by the factory claiming they need to purchase the equipment necessary to build an ultra-specialized item. They say they can do it, but then they give you a price quote with a scarily-high NRE (one-time charge for spooling up a factory line).

A very high NRE price quote may, unfortunately, be the case here, unless you're incredibly lucky and found a factory that miraculously kept some old CRT manufacturing equipment around. Even so, the capabilities of the equipment may be limited (e.g. resolution, tube size, dot pitch, etc). They might also not have the raw stock of other parts (e.g. ultra-fine fabrications of special nickel-iron alloys such as Invar used for shadow masks). So it's easy to say they can do it, but then later realize they don't have the full chain necessary to pull it off.

It's easy for them to borrow a generic pick-place machine for a temporary on-demand assembly line, but it's almost impossible for them to manufacture CRT tubes on demand due to their specialized nature. For highly specialized items, they charge you in the NRE or other up-front price quote. (Some countries use different terminology than "NRE", but it's whatever up-front cost needed to spool up a temporary factory assembly line). Also, China factories have a nasty habit of raising their price quotes as they keep discovering extra costs necessary to accomodate your request (durability, quality, specifications). So an original $XXXX-per-tube quote may drift to $XX,XXX-per-tube. (Choose any random number or digits, but you get the idea of price-per-unit inflation).

Given the high up front cost -- it is theoretically possible to find left field approaches in R&D to try and reduce manufacture cost. Such as finding new technology may make it easier to build a better Indextron (e.g. superior beam-indexing electronics made possible by newer FPGAs and high speed color-feedback sensors etc, that may eliminate the metal aperture grille or metal shadow mask with no picture quality degradation -- ala "Indextron" style but better). An Indextron approach requires only 1 electron gun and no mask/grille needed, but it had a lots of quality problems back in the day -- but might be solvable by new technology. To pull that off, entails additional R&D costs. Which you may be billed for, and you need to find somebody with the right skills to do the needed R&D for simplification of tube manufacture. Also, the supply crisis is still reverberating (e.g. certain FPGA parts are sold out for months). While unlikely due to patent expirations and dated tech, you might need to check those Indextron style patents too -- and annoyingly license it from some random big company if required (to prevent being sued). On the other hand it may theoretically cut the costs of spooling up a CRT assembly line, if the hardest-to-manufacture parts (CRT tube / tight-focus electron guns / masks) can be simplified thanks to newer technology for something else (e.g. beam indexed phosphor dots).

Tough gamble on what up front costs to spend, but it'd be way out of budget of most indie small-batch order budgets.

Before signing any contracts with a factory in China (or Taiwan or Hong Kong or Korea or other popular factory place), I also highly recommend visiting the factory (once the covid lockdowns ends). Keep in mind China had a 2-week quarantine period for foreign visitors, but I don't know if that has changed yet. Bring someone who's experienced in recognizing equipment, to make sure they are able to produce what they claim they can produce, and also a honest price quote for missing equipment that is needed to spool-up an assembly line.

That being said I also agree with pendragon1 too. It currently does not pass my sniff test, but in pushing through longshots -- it is very important to vet the high principles and honesty of these factories.

TL;DR: Do your homework and due diligence!
 
Last edited:

cdoublejj

Gawd
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
668
so the icydock on amazon uk is out of stock and mine never arrived and shows delivered.

EDIT: wow i see some longs posts here i need to do some reading.
 

cdoublejj

Gawd
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
668
nope, mine was based on car window polarizer, not LCD screens, some pics from the instalation process (wasnt me, i had to pay someone experienced with installing it on windows for cars):

View attachment 476212

a lot of plastic bags to protect monitor electronics from water and shampo needed for the polarizer instalation
is this a fix for the knicked coating?
 
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