I will be posting my FW 900//HP A7217A custom modded monitor on eBay after the 4TH of July weekendDoes anyone have an F520 for sale?
Ordered one of these - https://aliexpress.com/item/2251801839677795.html will let you folks know how it goes. For $18 (at least that’s the sale price that shows up for me In the USA) you really can’t go wrong!
Even if it doesn’t end up driving particularly high resolutions, you’ve still got a 1:2 HDMI to HDMI & VGA splitter, two digital audio outputs and one analog audio.
I’ve also picked up a Vention AFVHB. I know someone here said they couldn’t drive it past ~250MHz, but I’m gonna mess around with it some more. It notably doesn’t convert YCbCr to RGB, or rather the LT8612SX doesn’t.
I’m sure they all work the same. I do remember though, seeing that AMD cards could force sRGB color space though. That could be an advantage potentially? Or maybe not. CRT monitors are SMPTE-C/Rec 601. The sRGB clamp in AMD cards are really only helpful for wide gamut screens. So yeah, I’m guessing there is no real advantage. I do remember when I had CRT monitors, I appreciated Nvidia’s resolution tool’s ability to use GTF timings.Love me some OSSC!
Does anyone seem to have any consensus on whether newer Nvidia or AMD cards are better for use with the FW900 or CRTs in general? If only they still had native analog out lol... My trusty 980 Ti finally died on me for good, and I'm not sure who to buy from in the current market now that the prices have finally come down.
Regarding HP A7217A, just got P1110/G500 flyback that I'll be using for donor. Not sure when I'll do it but know another user posted here they swapped it successfully.... would be awesome to get it back up & running. Holds sentimental value to me since I drove across the country to get it end of 2019 & is what started me down the rabbit hole with this crazy hobby.....now I have 22 CRTs.... including PC monitors, 240P PVMs, a 480P 38" Arcade CRT, component consumer sets ect.....agreed, better to keep the original coating if that damage does not bother you, i removed mine and replaced with polairizer car film. on previous page i wrote about it. or if want more info search my user name and words like polarizer or coating , etc. as quick answer, the monitor without any coating blacks were only perceptible on a dark enviroment with no light source on it, didnt like that and ended installing the polarizing car film, happy with it, prefer the monitor with this than without any coating, but of course i would prefer to have the original.
by the way DarthVadetBater, were you able to fix your HP A7217A issue described here? if so, what did you do?
Congrats for your big CRT collection, being a fellow CRT collector myself. Over the past couple years a friend and I achieved almost the same combined number of CRTs (mostly 16 Trinitron/Diamondtron monitors, 5 PVMs, 2 or 3 smaller lower end monitors and a few SD TVs). Though with the added hassle of having to ship every single CRT monitor from Europe via maritime freight overseas to where we live (at least for the monitors and a couple PVMs, the TVs were local, but no HD CRT TVs at all here). It also all started with my FW900 back in 2016. I'm probably gonna have to get my hands on one of those flybacks as well at some point, just for the peace of mind in case mine dies one day. It already scared me a few times in the past (same for my F520 at the moment, sparks inside once in a while).Regarding HP A7217A, just got P1110/G500 flyback that I'll be using for donor. Not sure when I'll do it but know another user posted here they swapped it successfully.... would be awesome to get it back up & running. Holds sentimental value to me since I drove across the country to get it end of 2019 & is what started me down the rabbit hole with this crazy hobby.....now I have 22 CRTs.... including PC monitors, 240P PVMs, a 480P 38" Arcade CRT, component consumer sets ect.....
Another fun experiment could be the attempt of FreeSync on your CRTs -- if you do that, please post here.Some new updates on the interlaced resolutions subject. Today I received two more ATI GPUs:
- ATI Radeon HD 4890, TerraScale 1 (DX10) architecture (the same generation of GPU I already tested before with my HD 4550)
- ATI Radeon HD 5870, TerraScale 2 (DX11, pre-GCN) architecture
That would be something really interesting indeed to try with my RX 5700 XT maybe! It will give me an excuse to do some more testing with recent AMD cards as well.Another fun experiment could be the attempt of FreeSync on your CRTs -- if you do that, please post here.
(It's possible -- works on some multisync CRTs, requires forcing of the feature via ToastyX on an AMD card, and requires unbuffered HDMI->VGA adaptors that converts timings 1:1 verbatim. That being said, FreeSync support did not begin until Radeon RX 200 series).
I guess you haven't heard of Toasty X's pixel clock patcher?it is of course possible to hit the hardware limit of 400MHz pixel clock
Oh I completely missed that indeed! I didn't really know ATI/AMD hardware before, I mainly had Nvidia cards for the past 13 years.I guess you haven't heard of Toasty X's pixel clock patcher?
That will let you blow way past 500mHz. I'm curious how it changes the interlaced limit on HD 5xxx series
The default download for Windows 10 and my R9 380x card does allow interlaced resolutions, but it is a very old driver. It is Crimson 16.6, which is almost a year old now. It is missing support for a lot of games that have released in the past year. So this really isn't a valid solution for me.
I did however go back through the AMD's beta drivers, and found that 17.4.2 is where interlaced resolutions were broken. I can install 17.4.1 and anything before that, and interlaced resolutions will work.
So I believe this is something Microsoft engineers will have to work on with AMD directly, because there is no good solution to fix it on the user-side. And my memory is a little fuzzy, but I think I had 17.4.2 installed prior to the 1703 Creator's update, and interlaced resolutions worked. So I think the bug is from a combination of changes introduced in the Crimson 17.4.2 driver, and the 1703 creator's update.
Very interesting stuff, I have a rig with an RTX 3090 TI and a (Pascal) Titan XP and have gotten 1440i @ 144hz to work with an Alfais HDMI adapter (caps at ~350 MHz) I got from someone in the CRT discord (I render on the 3090 TI, output HDMI over the Titan XP) . I also have an AMD R9 380x, and now I’m wondering if using that would be a better option rather than the Titan XP, do you think using the old AMD drivers would present any issues with new games assuming that I’m using the RTX card for rendering and AMD just for analog output?Short follow up. I got a reply from ToastyX, he mentionned that he indeed vaguely remembers that 545.45MHz limit with the 5000 series, but he doesn't know where it comes from. The 272.72MHz limit for the interlaced resolutions seems to be linked, considering it's exactly half the maximum frequency of progressive resolutions. So no solution here.
He doesn't know whether or not this limit also existed on the 6000 series cards, so when my friends card arrives, I'll try that out. But the 6000 series being also either TerraScale 2 (like the 5000) or TerraScale 3 for the 69xx models, I wouldn't be surprised to also see the limit on these models.
The good news is, he told me the HD 7000 series (GCN 1.0 architecture) might not have that limit, at least from his memory he doesn't remember seeing that limit on this generation of cards.
The Radeon R9 280X being the exact same model as the Radeon HD 7970, I decided to purchase a Asus Radeon R9 280X DirectCU II TOP.
I also got a Sapphire Nitro R9 380X which is the last AMD card with a VGA port, and of the GCN 3.0 architecture. I'll see how this one works as well.
I read some guy on the Microsoft forums mentionning interlaced resolutions working on that card with some specific drivers, quote below. So at least I know interlacing should work on it if I use the correct drivers.
That said, both of these cards support FreeSync as pointed out by Chief Blur Buster, so it will be the next thing for me to try out! Then I'll have to find a way to measure latency proprely, I might have some ideas for that.
I would say that depending on the game it might be hit or miss. But from my testing a few posts above, most games I tried did run well using old 2015 drivers with the 4890. There are a few tricks needed sometimes though, for example I had to have a monitor plugged in to the 3080 for Call of Duty to even launch for example, otherwise I would get an error saying there was no compatible GPU found. But that was a really old card with ancient drivers. Now, for the 380X it might be different. I'm really interested in seeing what the 380X can do with patched drivers.Very interesting stuff, I have a rig with an RTX 3090 TI and a (Pascal) Titan XP and have gotten 1440i @ 144hz to work with an Alfais HDMI adapter (caps at ~350 MHz) I got from someone in the CRT discord (I render on the 3090 TI, output HDMI over the Titan XP) . I also have an AMD R9 380x, and now I’m wondering if using that would be a better option rather than the Titan XP, do you think using the old AMD drivers would present any issues with new games assuming that I’m using the RTX card for rendering and AMD just for analog output?
Where did you get the VX1120 flyback? I need one for my VX1120.Regarding HP A7217A, just got P1110/G500 flyback that I'll be using for donor. Not sure when I'll do it but know another user posted here they swapped it successfully.... would be awesome to get it back up & running. Holds sentimental value to me since I drove across the country to get it end of 2019 & is what started me down the rabbit hole with this crazy hobby.....now I have 22 CRTs.... including PC monitors, 240P PVMs, a 480P 38" Arcade CRT, component consumer sets ect.....
Nvidia GTX 1080 [HDMI] StarTech.com HD2DPVGADVI [DP] Delock 62967 / Sunnix DPU3000 [VGA] Sony GDM-FW900
My DPU3000 outputs a pretty good quality picture, but with some definitely noticeable ghosting.
Alright, I just tested both the Sunnix DPU3000 and the Delock 62967 with interlaced resolutions. They both display interlaced resolutions perfectly fine! I have to say I'm really impressed!
Interesting, I can't really say it looks blurry, but I didn't do a side by side comparison with a direct GPU output. I will do that when I can. The ghosting is only noticeable in certain conditions, so it's not too annoying.Mine doesn't really have ghosting, it just is a bit blurrier than a typical VGA output at really high frequencies, like when I'm running 1920x1440 @ 90hz.
Haha damn, I went too fast.I could have sold you my Gofanco HDMI>USBC adapter, haha. I ordered it for the same reason you did. I couldn't get it to go to very high pixel clocks, but I had it running through like 2 or 3 other adapters so I started to lose track of what the real problem might be.
I am looking forward to how you do with a Club3D>DPU3000 setup, since it seems later Nvidia cards don't have maximum interlaced resolutions (if I recall correctly)
Totally agree. I definitely will continue doing more testing! Really impressive work you're doing!Thank you!
I've recently started looking for a better adaptor for some weird cases like these -- for some of CRT-vs-(digital flat panels) experiments, in Blur Busters' endeavour to check ever more-and-more of the CRT-replacement versus checklist over the coming years/decade(s) -- via multiple routes (hardware strobing, software based CRT electron beam simulators, etc).
Still tons of 1080i material, plus interlace is an easy venue of getting extra CRT Hz on some tubes.
As more analog-output graphics cards become thrown into the closet because of OS/software incompatibility issues, solutions like these are good!
Thanks for testing all these adapters and also for the other things.Alright, I just tested both the Sunnix DPU3000 and the Delock 62967 with interlaced resolutions. They both display interlaced resolutions perfectly fine! I have to say I'm really impressed!
So I just received a few adapters I ordered (all at a really good discount of -50 to -70%, which is why I got all these to try out). I tried them all out quickly today and then took them all apart to check what are the chips inside. Here is a short summary of the results.
Nedis CCBP64850AT02 (USB-C to VGA) -> NXP PTN3355
Only computer I was able to use for the time being to try the USB-C adapters is my laptop with a 2060 Max-Q. The maximum bandwidth I was able to get was 238.80MHz.
StarTech.com CDPVDHDMDP2G (USB-C to HDMI/DVI/MiniDP/VGA) -> Parade PS8617 (I was not able to see the chips on the other side of the board)
Well... I got the exact same result with this one unfortunately. Which made me wonder if there was not something else limiting. So I went on and tried again the following adapter I have for some time.
Vention CGKHA (USB-C to HDMI/VGA) -> VIA/VLI VL100 + ITE IT6562FN
I was able to hit around 398MHz with this one just fine. Not above that.
StarTech.com CDP2VGAFC (USB-C to VGA) -> Realtek RTD2169U
That one turned out to be pretty good, with a maximum pixel clock of 360.50MHz, which is not bad at all!
Lastly, the only HDMI adapter of the bunch I tested today.
StarTech.com HD2DPVGADVI (HDMI to DVI/DisplayPort/VGA) -> Lontium LT8511A (HDMI to VGA) + STDP2600 (HDMI 1.4b to DisplayPort 1.2a) + Lontium LT86104SX (HDMI 1.4/DVI 1.0 4-port splitter)
So I was really curious about this one since HDMI allows for proper interlaced resolutions, and not only does it have a VGA output to try out directly, but also DisplayPort to daisy chain other adapters...
For the VGA output, unfortunately nothing to write home about as I was only able to reach a maximum bandwidth of 177.50MHz which is incredibly low! Going above that, the display starts showing black horizontal lines moving everywhere across the screen, increasingly going up in bandwidth until only the top of the display is visible then nothing at all. Really bad. That said, interlaced resolutions work perfectly, within the same limits.
Next up was trying the DP adapters I have on the DP output, see if DisplayPort even can be used for interlaced resolutions one way or another. I tried that already on a few different GPUs, AMD and Nvidia both in Linux and Windows ranging from 7 to 11. I never had any success at all, but the results lead me to believe that the adapters were not the issue, only the GPUs not being able to output proper interlaced signals. But here, I was able to output clean interlaced signals over HDMI, and it would be up to the adapter to convert that to interlaced over DisplayPort, if that's even possible to do.
First trying with the Sunnix DPU3000. The StarTech adapter is advertised as having a maximum of 4K at 30Hz on the DisplayPort output, which would definitely be limiting the DPU3000. I was able to output progressive resolutions up to a pixel clock of 324.25MHz. After that, the picture starts shivering more and more going up in bandwidth until it just stops displaying completely. Unfortunately some resolutions just won't register at all, but I remember that being also an issue with the DPU3000 on its own maybe? Not sure, I have to run more tests. After going a little higher or lower in frequency, it works again. So it works at least.
Moving on to the interlaced resolutions, the really impressive part is that it also works absolutely flawlessly!!! Same limlitations as well, some resolutions won't work, but when it does it does so perfectly well. That was on my GTX 1080 and Nvidia drivers 411.70 (setting the resolution in the Nvidia Control Panel, and then going to the Windows 11 modes list to select the interlaced resolution).
I then tried my Delock 62967, also working flawlessly in interlaced resolutions through HDMI to DisplayPort!
So I was able to do for example 1920x1200 interlaced at 150Hz on the FW900 without any issue for a few hours using the following chain.
So now I know for sure that at least those two really good DP to VGA adapters can actually to interlaced modes without any issue, provided that we use a HDMI to DP adapter that also supports it.
Now I need to get my hands on a better 4K60 HDMI to DP adapter, and hope that it will also do interlaced modes. I already ordered the Club 3D CAC-1331, I'll see what it's cappable of when I get my hands on it.
I also got a DisplayPort to Type-C adapter, the Sunix UPD2018 PCIe card (actually the Dell version) that can also be used externally without a PCIe port. That way I can try out the Type-C adapters I have, see whether or not these can also do interlaced.
I also got a direct HDMI to Type-C adapter, the Gofanco HDMIUSBC, see how that one performs.
The one thing I never heard of and that would now completely solve the interlacing issue, would be a DisplayPort (or HDMI) to DisplayPort (or HDMI) device that interlaces the signal on the output, dropping odd/even lines on each frame.
Are there any news on more recent adapters that might have hit the market in late 2021 or 2022? Any news about a potential Lontium LT8612UX based adapter?
I'm curious to see if we have anything else than the DPU3000 (and equivalents) that goes at least to or above 500-540MHz and that might be better in quality. My DPU3000 outputs a pretty good quality picture, but with some definitely noticeable ghosting.
My DPU3000 outputs a pretty good quality picture, but with some definitely noticeable ghosting.
Mine doesn't really have ghosting, it just is a bit blurrier than a typical VGA output at really high frequencies, like when I'm running 1920x1440 @ 90hz.
Thank you!Totally agree. I definitely will continue doing more testing! Really impressive work you're doing!
I think you're selling the feature short here. There are lots of modern 60fps-locked games too, like fighting games. Street Fighter 5 looks fantastic on my CRT.especially if you follow best-practices and only run it with retro 60fps content
Something else, I tested my Sunnix DPU3000 to its limits, I was able to display 3840x2160 at 50Hz (for testing only, of course, as it gets really flickery) on the F520 and FW900.
I had to manually lower the VGA timings, to get a perfect picture on the CRT at 4K, and yet not go above the 540MHz limit of the DPU3000. I can confirm it cuts out right at 540MHz, and works flawlessly slightly below that limit.
These are the timings I ended up with.
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