12900KS - What configuration is better for gaming short and long term??

Joined
May 30, 2016
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Have all 8 P cores enabled with hyper threading also enabled, but e cores disabled??

Have all 8 P cores and all 8 e cores enabled but hyper threading disabled??

I know most games at least not yet do not scale much beyond 8 threads and real cores, but that is changing, though games it seems highly unlikely are ever in the next 5 years will scale beyond 16 threads and real cores if even that much, but more than 8 is quite probable.

So is a physical core always better than logical core for gaming? I mean with 16 real cores, is HT even necessary? I know 8 of the cores are e cores, but they are still solid like Skylake IPC. And the main gamer threads will run on P cores and wouldn't the e cores be great for extra threads especially in WIN11 which knows how to use them? Or is that not the case and an 8/16 config with e cores off would be better for games that scale beyond 8 threads??

Part of the reason I got such a high core CPU is it feels good to have lots of dedicated cores with ability to turn off SMT/HT and still have lots of threads. And aren't e cores even if it were main thread for gaming (which it will not be I know) still decent with Skylake IPC and Skylake CPUs like 6600K and 6700K is still fine today for gaming?
 

bwang

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My general impression is that leaving everything on gives the best performance unless you are playing a game with known pathologies.
 

gerardfraser

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Have all 8 P cores enabled with hyper threading also enabled, but e cores disabled??

Have all 8 P cores and all 8 e cores enabled but hyper threading disabled??

I know most games at least not yet do not scale much beyond 8 threads and real cores, but that is changing, though games it seems highly unlikely are ever in the next 5 years will scale beyond 16 threads and real cores if even that much, but more than 8 is quite probable.

So is a physical core always better than logical core for gaming? I mean with 16 real cores, is HT even necessary? I know 8 of the cores are e cores, but they are still solid like Skylake IPC. And the main gamer threads will run on P cores and wouldn't the e cores be great for extra threads especially in WIN11 which knows how to use them? Or is that not the case and an 8/16 config with e cores off would be better for games that scale beyond 8 threads??

Part of the reason I got such a high core CPU is it feels good to have lots of dedicated cores with ability to turn off SMT/HT and still have lots of threads. And aren't e cores even if it were main thread for gaming (which it will not be I know) still decent with Skylake IPC and Skylake CPUs like 6600K and 6700K is still fine today for gaming?
Any setting is fine with 12900.If you turn off E-Cores you will use more power ,unless you believe all the BS about overclocking and RAM stuff,there really is not much difference unless you play 720p games.

 
Joined
May 30, 2016
Messages
52
Any setting is fine with 12900.If you turn off E-Cores you will use more power ,unless you believe all the BS about overclocking and RAM stuff,there really is not much difference unless you play 720p games.

How would it use more power with e cores off. Less cores means less power. Unless you leave AI overclock on and it clocks P cores higher. But I always do a static overlocked frequency anyways.
 

chameleoneel

Supreme [H]ardness
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Aug 15, 2005
Messages
6,396
Have all 8 P cores enabled with hyper threading also enabled, but e cores disabled??

Have all 8 P cores and all 8 e cores enabled but hyper threading disabled??

I know most games at least not yet do not scale much beyond 8 threads and real cores, but that is changing, though games it seems highly unlikely are ever in the next 5 years will scale beyond 16 threads and real cores if even that much, but more than 8 is quite probable.

So is a physical core always better than logical core for gaming? I mean with 16 real cores, is HT even necessary? I know 8 of the cores are e cores, but they are still solid like Skylake IPC. And the main gamer threads will run on P cores and wouldn't the e cores be great for extra threads especially in WIN11 which knows how to use them? Or is that not the case and an 8/16 config with e cores off would be better for games that scale beyond 8 threads??

Part of the reason I got such a high core CPU is it feels good to have lots of dedicated cores with ability to turn off SMT/HT and still have lots of threads. And aren't e cores even if it were main thread for gaming (which it will not be I know) still decent with Skylake IPC and Skylake CPUs like 6600K and 6700K is still fine today for gaming?
 
Joined
May 30, 2016
Messages
52
Paying $800 for a 12900ks only to gimp it by disabling features you paid $$$ for. Seem logical.


I wanted the strong binning because I want lower temps as I only air cool and refuse water cooling. And I did not gimp anything other than shutting off HT. 5.1GHz all core at 1.275V LLC Level 6 out of 8 is way way better than a 12900K non S can do. And it is going to be my CPU and main machine for at least 3 years or likely longer.
 
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I wanted the strong binning because I want lower temps as I only air cool and refuse water cooling. And I did not gimp anything other than shutting off HT. 5.1GHz all core at 1.275V LLC Level 6 out of 8 is way way better than a 12900K non S can do. And it is going to be my CPU and main machine for at least 3 years or likely longer.
Is it really "way way better" or just a tiny bit better so you can justify paying hundreds more?
 
Joined
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Messages
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Is it really "way way better" or just a tiny bit better so you can justify paying hundreds more?

I only paid $749. Its way better. I mean these are binned 12900Ks that have SP scores in the high 100s to 200s. Much higher binning gives better chance at lower voltages with similar clocks and thus lower temps.

And max all core boost for P cores is 4.9GHz for 12900K where as 5.2GHz for 12900KS. SO I got 200 more MHz and lower power consumption and temps. A standard 12900K would have been almost impossible on air cooling at 5GHz with e cores enabled. I can get 5.1GHz on KS with P and e cores turned on on a Noctua NH-D15S with mid 70s load temps in Cinebench.
 
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I only paid $749. Its way better. I mean these are binned 12900Ks that have SP scores in the high 100s to 200s. Much higher binning gives better chance at lower voltages with similar clocks and thus lower temps.

And max all core boost for P cores is 4.9GHz for 12900K where as 5.2GHz for 12900KS. SO I got 200 more MHz and lower power consumption and temps. A standard 12900K would have been almost impossible on air cooling at 5GHz with e cores enabled. I can get 5.1GHz on KS with P and e cores turned on on a Noctua NH-D15S with mid 70s load temps in Cinebench.
I'm pretty positive you can get a 12900k to all core 5ghz w/ air cooling. And you gimped yours by turning off HT.
 

AuxNuke

Gawd
Joined
Nov 11, 2001
Messages
603
Hey Wolverine2349 - I leave HT on and all P and E cores enabled for best performance. Kind of gives you the best of both worlds with no noticeable performance degradation I can see in games.

For my 12900KS I run the following 24/7 OC:
- Set XMP to whatever your RAM kit supports
- Set Short Duration power limit to max (This is 448s on the Asus Maximus Z690 series, might be different for other boards)
- Set or make sure Tjmax is set to the correct 115C. (12900KS is 115C compared to 100C on 12900K) With good cooling under all core load you should see no where near this unless it's an AVX workload where temps can skyrocket with Alder lake.
- Set P Core ratios by number of cores: (This will adjust the clock speed as per the number of cores in use with a max all P core clock of 5.3)
1C = 56
2C = 56
3C = 55
4C through 8C = 53
- Set E Core ratio to Sync all Cores to 41
- Set LLC to either Auto or level 3 to start. You may need to adjust up a little if not fully stable.
- Adjust CPU voltage. This is where it depends on the quality of your chip. My chip seems decent, I set the voltage to negative offset mode and reduced the voltage by .025V. It's stable even with the overclock on voltages lower than stock. YMMV here.

Hope this helps get the most out of your KS chip.
 

gerardfraser

[H]ard|Gawd
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Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,294
How would it use more power with e cores off. Less cores means less power. Unless you leave AI overclock on and it clocks P cores higher. But I always do a static overlocked frequency anyways.

Magic I guess.
https://www.hwcooling.net/en/test-disabling-small-e-and-big-p-cores-of-the-core-i9-12900k/3/

I only paid $749. Its way better. I mean these are binned 12900Ks that have SP scores in the high 100s to 200s. Much higher binning gives better chance at lower voltages with similar clocks and thus lower temps.

And max all core boost for P cores is 4.9GHz for 12900K where as 5.2GHz for 12900KS. SO I got 200 more MHz and lower power consumption and temps. A standard 12900K would have been almost impossible on air cooling at 5GHz with e cores enabled. I can get 5.1GHz on KS with P and e cores turned on on a Noctua NH-D15S with mid 70s load temps in Cinebench.
I think your correct or maybe not. My first post still stands but congratulations on a super buy.

One of my 12900K Cinebench With Noctua - NH U12A chromax Black Air Cooler with small overclock

Max CPU Package Temperature - 80°C

Multi-28287
Single-2011

P-Core set by core usage
P-Core 0-51
P-Core 1-51
P-Core 2-51
P-Core 3-51
P-Core 4-52
P-Core 5-51
P-Core 6-52
P-Core 7-51
E-Core Default


Forza Horizon 5 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz 4K HDR PC Gameplay


Far Cry 6 12900K OverClock 5500Mhz


Cyberpunk 2077 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz 4K HDR PC


Call of Duty Black Ops Cold War 12900K 5500Mhz


Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order 4K HDR 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz


Shadow of the Tomb Raider4K HDR PC Gameplay 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz
 
Joined
May 30, 2016
Messages
52
Magic I guess.
https://www.hwcooling.net/en/test-disabling-small-e-and-big-p-cores-of-the-core-i9-12900k/3/


I think your correct or maybe not. My first post still stands but congratulations on a super buy.

One of my 12900K Cinebench With Noctua - NH U12A chromax Black Air Cooler with small overclock

Max CPU Package Temperature - 80°C

Multi-28287
Single-2011

P-Core set by core usage
P-Core 0-51
P-Core 1-51
P-Core 2-51
P-Core 3-51
P-Core 4-52
P-Core 5-51
P-Core 6-52
P-Core 7-51
E-Core Default


Forza Horizon 5 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz 4K HDR PC Gameplay


Far Cry 6 12900K OverClock 5500Mhz


Cyberpunk 2077 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz 4K HDR PC


Call of Duty Black Ops Cold War 12900K 5500Mhz


Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order 4K HDR 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz


Shadow of the Tomb Raider4K HDR PC Gameplay 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz


Those are really good numbers. And is the temp average 80C in Cinebench or peak at 80C. I do get a peak 81C, but very rare and brief and like 1/2 second and it averages 70 to 75 almost the entire run. I have seen Alder Lake CPUs do that where they will have a very high peak, but only for like a second or less once in a while but average temps much lower And are you using DDR4 or DDR5 and how fast is the RAM.

I have 6400MHz DDR5 Trident Z.

Plan to keep this build for long long while as my main PC.
 

AuxNuke

Gawd
Joined
Nov 11, 2001
Messages
603
With the OC settings above, my temps in all benches hover around 78C at max, with the exception of AVX workloads (like Cinebench 23) where temps can touch 95C or so briefly. I have no negative offset for AVX workloads; they run at full clock speed.

Here's what you can look forward to with a mild overclock on that 12900KS!

cpuz.jpg


cinebench23.jpg


blender31.jpg
 

gerardfraser

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,294
Those are really good numbers. And is the temp average 80C in Cinebench or peak at 80C. I do get a peak 81C, but very rare and brief and like 1/2 second and it averages 70 to 75 almost the entire run. I have seen Alder Lake CPUs do that where they will have a very high peak, but only for like a second or less once in a while but average temps much lower And are you using DDR4 or DDR5 and how fast is the RAM.

I have 6400MHz DDR5 Trident Z.

Plan to keep this build for long long while as my main PC.
Your missing my first reaction in this thread ,it does not matter what clock your running or ram your running,it is all the same.Just a matter of what you want to set your settings at.Also I showed actual video and you did not look, anyway your fine with any setting you choose,there should be no FOMO with your gear..

My first post in thread with screenshot .I showed the same results at the following clocks below.
P-core 5300Mhz vs P-core 4900Mhz
E-core 4000Mhz vs E-core 3700Mhz
DDR4 CL15 Gear1 4000Mhz vs DDR4 CL17 Gear2 4000Mhz

So it actually does not matter what your running your 12900KS at ,it will be fine no matter what you choose,just stop falling for BS from nutty nutbars.

My 12900K 5600Mhz all core,showing my E-peen with the poor 12900K

Shadow of the Tomb Raider 12900K 5600Mhz​

 
Last edited:

XoR_

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2016
Messages
1,400
Disable HT or E cores...
Neither. Instead disable core parking - it can increase performance in certain cases by a lot. Windows will park (read: suspend / put to sleep) cores quite aggressively and while this might be optimal for power usage this tech has no place on desktop computers.
Other setting is increasing 'minimum processor state' in balanced power plan or just use high performance one. I would set something like 75-99% for balanced plan which should give frequency close to maximum non-turbo frequency (or 'base clock') rather than 1.2GHz. On my 9900K I get roughly base clock of 3.6GHz when idling (have like dozen of windows opened so normal usage scenario) at minimum state at 92%.

Disabling core parking improves performance without any case performance can suffer.
Disabling HT or disabling E cores will inevitably lead to worse performance. Performance improvements noted by people was unimpressive at most. Just like with HT on any system ever. And then what is some game runs better with eg. HT off if other game runs better with it on? Also keep in mind that when people benchmark games they close everything and its only application running, except maybe Steam and tray applications. In real world in real life there is also Chrome with hundred tabs opened and user cannot be bothered to close them before starting games :)
 
Joined
May 30, 2016
Messages
52
Disable HT or E cores...
Neither. Instead disable core parking - it can increase performance in certain cases by a lot. Windows will park (read: suspend / put to sleep) cores quite aggressively and while this might be optimal for power usage this tech has no place on desktop computers.
Other setting is increasing 'minimum processor state' in balanced power plan or just use high performance one. I would set something like 75-99% for balanced plan which should give frequency close to maximum non-turbo frequency (or 'base clock') rather than 1.2GHz. On my 9900K I get roughly base clock of 3.6GHz when idling (have like dozen of windows opened so normal usage scenario) at minimum state at 92%.

Disabling core parking improves performance without any case performance can suffer.
Disabling HT or disabling E cores will inevitably lead to worse performance. Performance improvements noted by people was unimpressive at most. Just like with HT on any system ever. And then what is some game runs better with eg. HT off if other game runs better with it on? Also keep in mind that when people benchmark games they close everything and its only application running, except maybe Steam and tray applications. In real world in real life there is also Chrome with hundred tabs opened and user cannot be bothered to close them before starting games :)

I notice that Windows 11 parks all unused cores by default. And WIN10 parks all but the e cores on Alder Lake.

With e cores disabled at BIOS level it functions with nothing parked. Only on Alder Lake though I notice that behavior not on other CPUs.

I went back to Ryzen 5900X with one CD at 4700MHz and the other CCD at 4525MHz. SMT off and perfectly stable and passes all tests including Small FFT Prime95 and Y Cruncher and OCCT and CInebench and Linpack XTREME with no errors. It get especially hot with Y Cruncher test 2 or 3 hitting 91C, but just was temporary to ensure super stability assuming temp was not issue and would never hit those in the real world.

Was tired of hybrid architecture and no more than 8 p cores from Intel. Like 12 cores for future proofing for games that may use it. And I got a good bin that manually overclocked one CCD to 4700MHz with perfect stability passing all tough tests and the other at 4525MHz,

My philosophy is SMT and HT are completely useless if you have 8 or more physical cores. So I always turn them off with 8 or more cores.

How is core parking disabled though on Alder Lake. I notice Windows does not do any Core Parking on Ultimate Performance Power Plan for any CPU except Alder Lake with e cores on.
 
Last edited:

XoR_

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Messages
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How is core parking disabled though on Alder Lake. I notice Windows does not do any Core Parking on Ultimate Performance Power Plan for any CPU except Alder Lake with e cores on.
You need separate application for that eg https://www.coderbag.com/programming-c/disable-cpu-core-parking-utility

Was tired of hybrid architecture and no more than 8 p cores from Intel. Like 12 cores for future proofing for games that may use it.
Isn't like 12900K much faster in games than 5900X?
Benchmarks show 12900K often trades blows with 5950X in multi-threaded applications and in games its faster. Even 6 core CPUs do not show any issues in games so I would not worry about needing >8.

Benchmarks also show people should not disable E-Cores :)
 
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Messages
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You need separate application for that eg https://www.coderbag.com/programming-c/disable-cpu-core-parking-utility


Isn't like 12900K much faster in games than 5900X?
Benchmarks show 12900K often trades blows with 5950X in multi-threaded applications and in games its faster. Even 6 core CPUs do not show any issues in games so I would not worry about needing >8.

Benchmarks also show people should not disable E-Cores :)

I also did not care for Windows 11. Windows 10 is not thread director aware so really needed 11 for Alder Lake. So I went back to 5900X.

Plus the heat consumption of Alder Lake was very very high. Its much more tame on Zen 3.

Yes the 12900K shows to be faster in games as Golden Cove can clock higher and has 10-15% higher IPC than Zen 3. Though in the future I think games are going to start using more cores. Maybe not requiring them, but will be smoother with them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/uj5ucf/is_6400mhz_ddr5_worth_it_on_a_core_i9_12900ks_for/

And e cores are not going to be good for gaming. Look at dc-x post. It makes sense. Games that fully take advantage of more than 12-16 cores will likely struggle as the e cores are so much slower than p cores and it may not know what to do. Having the same type of cores that problem will not exist.
 

XoR_

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,400
Yes the 12900K shows to be faster in games as Golden Cove can clock higher and has 10-15% higher IPC than Zen 3. Though in the future I think games are going to start using more cores. Maybe not requiring them, but will be smoother with them.
It will take some time to get to this point and at that point 5900x and/or 12900KS will be nothing but a memory. Also by that time games will most likely know what E-cores are and will only schedule only specific worker threads on them eg. ray traced audio. AMD has plans to have cores with reduced power - not sure how similar this will be to E-cores but in either way game developers will have to be clever enough to utilize such resources effectively and not rely on all cores being the same.

Overall yeah, Alder Lake is new thing, doesn't work well with Win10 and on top of that is power hungry as hell so might as well stick with 5900X :)
 
Last edited:

wadec22

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
3,918
Hey Wolverine2349 - I leave HT on and all P and E cores enabled for best performance. Kind of gives you the best of both worlds with no noticeable performance degradation I can see in games.

For my 12900KS I run the following 24/7 OC:
- Set XMP to whatever your RAM kit supports
- Set Short Duration power limit to max (This is 448s on the Asus Maximus Z690 series, might be different for other boards)
- Set or make sure Tjmax is set to the correct 115C. (12900KS is 115C compared to 100C on 12900K) With good cooling under all core load you should see no where near this unless it's an AVX workload where temps can skyrocket with Alder lake.
- Set P Core ratios by number of cores: (This will adjust the clock speed as per the number of cores in use with a max all P core clock of 5.3)
1C = 56
2C = 56
3C = 55
4C through 8C = 53
- Set E Core ratio to Sync all Cores to 41
- Set LLC to either Auto or level 3 to start. You may need to adjust up a little if not fully stable.
- Adjust CPU voltage. This is where it depends on the quality of your chip. My chip seems decent, I set the voltage to negative offset mode and reduced the voltage by .025V. It's stable even with the overclock on voltages lower than stock. YMMV here.

Hope this helps get the most out of your KS chip.
So what is the stock voltage on the Asus board? My MSI auto setting seems high.
 

Phongski99

n00b
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
1
Your missing my first reaction in this thread ,it does not matter what clock your running or ram your running,it is all the same.Just a matter of what you want to set your settings at.Also I showed actual video and you did not look, anyway your fine with any setting you choose,there should be no FOMO with your gear..

My first post in thread with screenshot .I showed the same results at the following clocks below.
P-core 5300Mhz vs P-core 4900Mhz
E-core 4000Mhz vs E-core 3700Mhz
DDR4 CL15 Gear1 4000Mhz vs DDR4 CL17 Gear2 4000Mhz

So it actually does not matter what your running your 12900KS at ,it will be fine no matter what you choose,just stop falling for BS from nutty nutbars.

My 12900K 5600Mhz all core,showing my E-peen with the poor 12900K

Shadow of the Tomb Raider 12900K 5600Mhz​



Hi Gerard,

Can I ask what you have your e-cores and ring ratio set to for your 5.6ghz profile.

Cheers mate
 

pippenainteasy

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
1,106
Keep everything enabled but have the BIOS option to toggle e-cores on/off on a per-game basis to see what works. I found some older indie games really suffered from the e-cores since they just weren't designed with them in mind, I would get like 85fps on a 11900K but was getting 50-60fps on the 12900K until I turned off the e-cores.
 

gerardfraser

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,294
Hi Gerard,

Can I ask what you have your e-cores and ring ratio set to for your 5.6ghz profile.

Cheers mate
I owned than one 12900K ,I only PC game so in the video at 5600Mhz on Air cooler with crazy voltage on purpose E-Cores were 4000Mhz and Ring would have been the same 4000Mhz. I just PC Game so after checking a few videos I done on 12900K they were set around the same but sometimes just default settings which had no effect on my PC Gaming use,

Here were my most common settings say 90% of the time on different 12900k

54 P- Core
40 E-core
Ring 41
adaptivevoltage-03.png
 
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