Apple Taps Intel 18A-P Node for M7 MacBook Chip, 14A Node for iPhone

“For the A21 iPhone SoCs, Apple will use Intel's advanced 14A node, which promises a generational leap in density, frequency, and power savings. Apple's primary goal is to employ a more advanced node for mobile devices, with plans to have these chips ready by 2028. As this is anticipated to begin in about two years, Apple will likely wait for the final 14A PDK before starting trial production. It remains uncertain whether the company will manufacture its A21 Pro SoC at TSMC and leave the regular version to Intel. However, Apple is gradually diversifying its supply chain with more silicon manufacturers. With advanced packaging, Intel can compete with TSMC in many areas, and we are eager to see the outcomes of this competition.

Finally, Apple's solutions might require some packaging techniques to meet the expected performance of the M7 SoC. This could involve a combination of the Foveros family, including Foveros-S, R, B, or Foveros Direct, paired with EMIB. These options offer interposers and RDL options, along with true 3D stacking using Cu-to-Cu hybrid bonding, for scenarios that demand extreme die-to-die bandwidth or power efficiency. Additionally, small silicon EMIB bridges are available in variants like EMIB-M, with embedded MIM capacitors, and EMIB-T, with TSVs.”

Source: https://www.techpowerup.com/349020/...-node-for-m7-macbook-chip-14a-node-for-iphone

While I could give a crap about Apple, it is good to see that Intel may be competitive enough in lithography that Apple would consider using them for production of any of their chips.

I find it ironic that Apple left Intel to only come crawling back to Intel.

I find even more reason to stay away from Apple and Intel.

DukenukemX said:

I find it ironic that Apple left Intel to only come crawling back to Intel.
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It's more that Intel is crawling back to Apple. TSMC isn't exactly lagging; Apple just wants to be sure it has the latest nodes and diversify its suppliers (remember, Apple needs a backup if Taiwan goes sideways).

Intel, meanwhile, is only just on the mend with its own CPUs and still needs customers for its foundry business (the NVIDIA and X deals aren't as far-ranging as the names involved suggest). Apple is a good get... and remember, Intel will be making Apple-designed chips. If you'd have told PC fans 20+ years ago that Intel would be making processors for Apple that frequently outperform its own, they'd have wondered how Intel had fallen.

There are benefits to both companies, but I still don't think that this would have ever occurred without a certain amount of government influence.

What this says about TSMC is probably even more interesting than what it says about Intel's manufacturing; although I can't see the latter happening unless Intel was able to convince them that their decade+ in the wilderness has finally ended and they're back on track.

Mainly I'm wondering if:

1) Intel just looks better than TSMC because they've fixed everything.
2) Intel looks better than TSMC because TSMC is stumbling.
3) Intel looks just good enough while TSMCs process is still good but can't deliver enough capacity.

Apple going all in on Intel instead of only doing mobile or laptop class parts makes me skeptical it's the 3rd option.

I really hope it's only that Intel manufacturing is finally doing really well again, and that we'll have multiple tier one fab providers again and we won't just be switching from a product monopoly where Apple had 100% of TSMCs best process to a duopoly where Apple and Intel split Intels best process; but a return to the situation before Apple was able to buy out TSMCs latest and greatest and that many companies will each have a slice of it again. (And that the AI bubble has popped so they're used for useful projects not just slop machines.)

It could be capacity, but also Intel's latest nodes, if they deliver, may be superior. Intel went really hard on it, they bought out all the first run of the latest equipment from ASML so others had to wait. Apple cares a lot about being the "best of the best". Part of it is just an ego thing they've had since, well, since the OG Macintosh from my recollection. Part of it is because Apple really likes to market the best battery life, and if they don't go to the latest node while someone else does, that could threaten that position.

I'm sure there are some thoughts of Taiwan too. Wouldn't be a bad idea to have a second source.

Aurelius said:

It's more that Intel is crawling back to Apple. TSMC isn't exactly lagging; Apple just wants to be sure it has the latest nodes and diversify its suppliers (remember, Apple needs a backup if Taiwan goes sideways).

Intel, meanwhile, is only just on the mend with its own CPUs and still needs customers for its foundry business (the NVIDIA and X deals aren't as far-ranging as the names involved suggest). Apple is a good get... and remember, Intel will be making Apple-designed chips. If you'd have told PC fans 20+ years ago that Intel would be making processors for Apple that frequently outperform its own, they'd have wondered how Intel had fallen.

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It's ^... 100%

Well TSMC as maybe a new favorite customer and do not offer Apple the nice rebate for guarantee volume than before, so a bit of a mix here.

Apple always been in Cook era obsesses enough with the supply chain and optimising their purchassing power, they need to become a multi-supplier put against each other now that TSMC is confident they will sell are their latest node to someone if Apple does not take it, to have them back to negotiating some fair price (like everyone else was doing, using samsung or others as credible alternative).

A have a feeling in a few years. Apple customers will be hunting for good devices. lol
It will be like buying RAM and finding out the box you bought had the crap vendor ram in it.
I mean it would be great if Intel foundry has their shit together, its been awhile. If Apple sources basically the same part from both the comparisons will be interesting.

ChadD said:

A have a feeling in a few years. Apple customers will be hunting for good devices. lol
It will be like buying RAM and finding out the box you bought had the crap vendor ram in it.
I mean it would be great if Intel foundry has their shit together, its been awhile. If Apple sources basically the same part from both the comparisons will be interesting.

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“Apple Has Handed Intel A ‘Once-In-A-Generation’ Foundry Lifeline, Claims Analyst, But 80% Of The Orders Hinge On A Single iPhone Chip”​

https://wccftech.com/apple-has-hand...-of-the-orders-hinge-on-a-single-iphone-chip/

ChadD said:

A have a feeling in a few years. Apple customers will be hunting for good devices. lol
It will be like buying RAM and finding out the box you bought had the crap vendor ram in it.
I mean it would be great if Intel foundry has their shit together, its been awhile. If Apple sources basically the same part from both the comparisons will be interesting.

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I'm not worried. Apple is reportedly using Intel to make lower-end chips, at least at first, while TSMC will still handle the clear majority of production. So if you're buying an iPhone or Mac with "Intel inside" (so to speak), it'll be a device where raw speed doesn't matter in the first place.

80% of an apple foundry is about phone chips ? yes ? not sure why they added the word but

Intels foundries are reportedly doing fine not TSMC levels but close enough, especially on smaller chips like those you’d find in a phone or tablet. Bigger chips like the M series I don’t think Intels there yet but that’s not likely what they are making.

Intel has the capability and the capacity, remember Nvidia rolled up to TSMC with a dump truck full of money and said “daddy please” and bought up a huge portion of TSMCs manufacturing capacity. I’m not sure they left enough for Apple to reasonably get a consumer part to market and still price it at consumer levels.

Intel needs the business, and they need to prove they are capable of delivering a mass appeal product out of those foundries. This is Intels make or break moment, they deliver on this and IFS is saved, they fuck it up and no amount of government bailouts is going to save them.

At the same time I’m sure Apple would have done their homework beforehand, as stated above 80% of their retail sales depend on this chip being not shit. That’s not something Apple can afford to gamble on so they must have done a crapload of cross checking before signing off on anything.

This likely has as much to do with capacity as anything. It doesn't matter how much more advanced TSMC may be over anyone else because TSMC simply doesn't have the capacity to fab everything. Everyone has been turning to TSMC for high end processes because of how good their processes are but it maxed out capacity and drove up prices considerably. By possibly moving capacity to somewhere else, especially for stuff that doesn't need to be on the best node, the capacity issues are relieved somewhat and prices (at least for the companies making the orders) can go down or at least cause an easing of price increases.

Issues between China and Taiwan don't help matters and it would be stupid to have Taiwan as your only supplier if it's possible to get your supply fabbed somewhere else.

erek said:

“Apple Has Handed Intel A ‘Once-In-A-Generation’ Foundry Lifeline, Claims Analyst, But 80% Of The Orders Hinge On A Single iPhone Chip”

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So?

1_rick said:

So?

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isn’t it a pretty big deal?

erek said:

isn’t it a pretty big deal?

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Yes. I was, by bolding part of the headline, expressing disagreement with the idea that "a single chip [order]" is bad, as implied by the "but" in the title.

I started in the semiconductor industry in 2001. Up until about 2010 we weren’t even supposed to say the word Apple internally when talking about Apple products. There was a company wide code word that indicated Apple products. And I heard from engineers this happened in other chip companies. Now Apple openly advertises who is making their chips. Every one gets to swing their peepees now. Although much of it probably is due to the nature of social media and news all trying to get the next big headline. Can’t stop the signal, Mal.