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Is Microsoft Fixing Windows 11 or Making It Worse?

E

Executioner

Older Than FrgMstr
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Messages
1,018
Interesting discussion. Some of the proposed changes include removing the MS account requirement and reduction in memory requirement. Removing some of the AI in apps like Paint, and including having the user decide when they update the OS like Linux. Also discussed a bit on Linux and Linux gaming including the Steam Deck and impacts on Windows.


View: https://youtu.be/BNFgwDG3FLs
 
Beleive it when we see it...

MS lost the trust of many very very quickly, starting with Windows 8... and never got it back.

Windows 10, sort of saved face, but Windows 11 just threw what ever was left, out the window! So reverting that damage, and then sticking to it....ya....well see.
 
MrGuvernment said:
Beleive it when we see it...

MS lost the trust of many very very quickly, starting with Windows 8... and never got it back.

Windows 10, sort of saved face, but Windows 11 just threw what ever was left, out the window! So reverting that damage, and then sticking to it....ya....well see.
Click to expand...
Well, 8 was Microsofts attempt to unify its interfaces and try to make Windows Phone a thing. After that, 10 started the trend where Microsoft would force updates, because it found people on 7 tended to delay forever, leaving security holes unpatched that were used in various cyberattacks. So I understand where forced updates came from, especially since Microsoft got a lot of flack for the number of times unpatched holes in 7 were used.

As for 11, Microsoft tried to (badly) copy Apple, while updating a lot of the core OS, while trying to embrace every emerging tech. And it did not go well.
 
gamerk2 said:
Well, 8 was Microsofts attempt to unify its interfaces and try to make Windows Phone a thing. After that, 10 started the trend where Microsoft would force updates, because it found people on 7 tended to delay forever, leaving security holes unpatched that were used in various cyberattacks. So I understand where forced updates came from, especially since Microsoft got a lot of flack for the number of times unpatched holes in 7 were used.

As for 11, Microsoft tried to (badly) copy Apple, while updating a lot of the core OS, while trying to embrace every emerging tech. And it did not go well.
Click to expand...
So force updates, I am for that, but when you force updates that crash core functionality of the OS, that is exactly what causes people to stop allowing automatic updates, and it seems like MS is doing well to break something serious every month lately with their updates.
 
I don't think they really care. End users aren't paying for Windows anymore and it's not like businesses or the OEMs selling retail boxes are swapping over to Linux in numbers that concern them. They'd rather piss people off while trying to slowly nudge them toward ecosystems they hope they'll never be able to escape. Lock 'em down so they feel like they can't leave. You'll lose too much. Do it now while the core OS still matters. That's pretty much how/why we're all using Windows right now anyway.
 
This is complete bs. They ignored these complaints literally for the last couple of decades NOW that people are actually moving away from Windows to the tune of several percentage points suddenly the care.

It would be one thing if I believed they would change course permanently but I don't. They might turn the temp back down on boiling the frog for one Windows release because everyone noticed the water boiling them but they'll go right back again in 2-4 years. And that's if these rumors are even true.

Trusting MS on this is like Stockholm syndrome.
 
They also need to go back to allowing you to customize your install so only what you want is installed.
 
Deadjasper said:
for Microsoft, it's all about control
Click to expand...

Compared to what, the latest FOTM linux distro with single-digit market-share? Windows is still incredibly open compared to every other platform that is actually popular. It has an app store, but it's not forcefully funneling you through it. It has a browser, but it's not forcing you to use it. It is still possible to not use a Microsoft Account. There are AI features built-in to the OS, but if you don't engage with it, it leaves you alone.

Advil said:
Trusting MS on this is like Stockholm syndrome.
Click to expand...

I'd say that it's a "symptom" of something when you anthropomorphize a company when talking about things like "trust". Microsoft is capable of changing direction just as fast as their shareholders want them to. Sorry that Steve Ballmer didn't use lube during your interaction 20 years ago.
 
Advil said:
This is complete bs. They ignored these complaints literally for the last couple of decades NOW that people are actually moving away from Windows to the tune of several percentage points suddenly the care.

It would be one thing if I believed they would change course permanently but I don't. They might turn the temp back down on boiling the frog for one Windows release because everyone noticed the water boiling them but they'll go right back again in 2-4 years. And that's if these rumors are even true.

Trusting MS on this is like Stockholm syndrome.
Click to expand...
Because now they see that % of people are people who wont allow Copilot to be shoved down their throats and have everything they do tracked by Recall....

Even at my work we are doing a small PoC using Claude because Copilot just falls flat on it's face with basic things, things MS touted it can do so well. We also just moved down to their new Copilot Business SKU (300 users and below) from Copilot for M365 which saves us $10k a year on licenses right now....
 
GotNoRice said:
Compared to what, the latest FOTM linux distro with single-digit market-share? Windows is still incredibly open compared to every other platform that is actually popular. It has an app store, but it's not forcefully funneling you through it. It has a browser, but it's not forcing you to use it. It is still possible to not use a Microsoft Account. There are AI features built-in to the OS, but if you don't engage with it, it leaves you alone.



I'd say that it's a "symptom" of something when you anthropomorphize a company when talking about things like "trust". Microsoft is capable of changing direction just as fast as their shareholders want them to. Sorry that Steve Ballmer didn't use lube during your interaction 20 years ago.
Click to expand...
Anything MS does is NOT for the end users benefit, it has not for a decade + now, everything MS does now is to gain more data on its users and pad the bottom line (which any business would do) but their decisions are going to cost them more money in the long run.

Now, that doesnt not mean everyone is jumping ship, from home users to companies, as noted, too many companies are engraved in the MS eco-system so getting out would be a major undertaking and cost.

When you have entire nations in the EU saying enough, lets get off of MS due to "US laws" and MS lying about data residency and GDPR compliance...You can bet those are what are igniting this conversation, along with their abysmal conversion rate to paid CoPilot subs...
 
GotNoRice said:
Compared to what, the latest FOTM linux distro with single-digit market-share? Windows is still incredibly open compared to every other platform that is actually popular. It has an app store, but it's not forcefully funneling you through it. It has a browser, but it's not forcing you to use it. It is still possible to not use a Microsoft Account. There are AI features built-in to the OS, but if you don't engage with it, it leaves you alone.



I'd say that it's a "symptom" of something when you anthropomorphize a company when talking about things like "trust". Microsoft is capable of changing direction just as fast as their shareholders want them to. Sorry that Steve Ballmer didn't use lube during your interaction 20 years ago.
Click to expand...
Well, that was graphic. But no, I don't agree there is any chance this is something shareholder sentiment can turn around. The issue of privacy and security is larger than that across the entire industry and across society. We can take a stand and not use products that abuse us, even if it does mean a loss of perceived or real convenience. Or not.

1) How much more open is Windows vs Android at this point? Yes, Windows is still more open, but the software controls for what you are allowed to install and run is shockingly close to way the Google Play Store currently work with Android. (Yes, I know Google may be about to lock Android down further) The first time you try to run an app MS doesn't have on its whitelist it tries to pressure you heavily to only allow App Store apps.
2) It does forcefully funnel you through the app store, ALL the apps that are preloaded or updated when you install Windows or update OneDrive or Teams... all of it is done through the app store. You can't separate the OS from it completely at all anymore. It's fully integrated and can't be uninstalled by normal means.
3) The Edge browser is forced in every way except for being your default personal web browser which only provides an illusion of having the choice for it to not be used. It is fully integrated with the OS and Copilot and Edge can not be uninstalled by any normal means. It also runs in the background as the OS decides it needs it whether you are noticing it or not.
4) It's only barely still possible to not use a MS Account. I do this work for customers all the time. Very, very few can now use Windows as "average" users without getting forced into it somewhere. It's just not reasonable anymore. When I set up machines with a local account, almost every customer has reconnected to their MS Account for one reason or another by a few days later many don't even realize that connecting the user to a MS Account is permanent and comes with other baggage. They just know they need to login to MS to do whatever so they do and then their account is connected all the time after that.

bigdogchris said:
When it's a free upgrade, I understand this. But I'd be happy to go back to paying for OS to get back to the basics.
Click to expand...
And that's another example of watching what they DO and not what they say. I'd be thrilled with Windows going back to pay once per major version release if the OS would go back to being private and local. But they won't. They can't make the kind of money, or gain the kind of market and personal info they do now by doing that. Even $200 licenses wouldn't tempt them for end users. The information they collect is far more valuable in the long term in profit, controlling markets, controlling users, and other things.
 
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