Nvidia RTX 4090 power connectors melting?

Armenius

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I'm amazed at the rehashed Apple tactic of "You're holding it wrong" being applied to this as well. If a larger than normal portion of the population is doing it wrong then it's designed insufficiently.
There are only 20-30 examples on the internet out of, what, 20,000 cards sold? 0.1% failure due to user error doesn't sound out of the ordinary, to me.
 

Armenius

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1668803569593.png
 

kac77

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There are only 20-30 examples on the internet out of, what, 20,000 cards sold? 0.1% failure due to user error doesn't sound out of the ordinary, to me.
They don't recall cars because the percentage of people who have died is too high.

Its about safety not about how many people survived the house fire.
 
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exlink

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They don't recall cars because the percentage of people who have died is too high.

They recall cars because consumers should be able to purchase safe products. Same thing here.
Recalls have more to do with costs. If it costs more to conduct a recall than the anticipated court and settlement costs from potential lawsuits then some companies won’t issue the recall. Even in situations where it is a potential safety concern.

If there is a 0.05% incident rate for this user error then its possible we won’t see a formal recall. Nvidia and AIBs could just post a PSA on their support website and update packaging materials with a bright piece of paper or sticker telling users to plug it in all the way and verify it’s plugged in all the way before powering on.

Wouldn’t be surprised if PCI-SIG updates the design so that the plug clips in easier. If it happens within this generation then future 40x0 series cards could ship with at least updated adapters.
 

Starfalcon

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We're talking a power connector here. This isn't rocket science / medical grade. Anyone who designed this connector and thought it would be fine for the masses is an idiot. There is absolutely no reason they couldn't have just made this new 12vhpwr connector at least have the pin size of the standard 6/8-pin PCI-E connectors. It wouldn't take that much more room and would largely eliminate a lot of these issues.

I'm surprised major OEM's like Dell allowed nvidia to push this standard, TBH. It's the OEM's that are going to have to design their own solutions to fix this problem when it comes to shipping/assembly, and it's going to cost them more money. I'm curious to see how Dell is going to deal with this with their in-house 4080/4090's and what is going to happen to the case structure.

The reason they made it that size was to fit in the current cutouts of modular PSUs. That way they dont need to change a whole lot to move to the new connector.
 

kac77

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Recalls have more to do with costs. If it costs more to conduct a recall than the anticipated court and settlement costs from potential lawsuits then some companies won’t issue the recall. Even in situations where it is a potential safety concern.Reply

If there is a 0.05% incident rate for this user error then its possible we won’t see a formal recall. Nvidia and AIBs could just post a PSA on their support website and update packaging materials with a bright piece of paper or sticker telling users to plug it in all the way and verify it’s plugged in all the way before powering on.

Wouldn’t be surprised if PCI-SIG updates the design so that the plug clips in easier. If it happens within this generation then future 40x0 series cards could ship with at least updated adapters.
That's not quite true. That's only the case for a voluntary recall. Showing a low percentage again is not an indicator of a product recall especially in case of fire. Consumer safety agencies can force a recall if the product is deemed too hazardous. For example Toyota was forced to recall hundreds of thousands of Lexus vehicles when the number of vehicles that suffered rapid acceleration was only 4 out of hundreds of thousands. The reason was the type of hazard it posed not just to the occupants but everyone else on the road as well. A fire is a very quick way to get noticed by these agencies. I promise you if someone's house catches fire especially if someone dies you are gonna see something done about it regardless of the percentage of units affected vs sold.

I wouldn't be surprised if the plug received an update in the near future to address the issue.
 

Lakados

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Similar to how they updated the SATA cable design to lock in better I expect they will do the same here. A change in design to the clip so it latches better or the addition of side clips would do. Lots of options that retain compatibility while improving the form to choose from.

Nvidias response while bland is at least informative, it seems the flex on some MBs is enough that it makes you push uncomfortably hard to actually seat the connector. So connecting it before seating the card simplifies the install.

The fact that is an oversight at all though is a failure. Things like this are why all these engineering firms should grab random people on the street for testing. Engineers have a bad habit of overestimating their audience and it’s always a shot show when they do.
 
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DPI

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Nvidias response while bland is at least informative, it seems the flex on some MBs is enough that it makes you push uncomfortably hard to actually seat the connector. So connecting it before seating the card simplifies the install.
Or the suggestion to plug connector into GPU -before- GPU into PCIe slot is them maybe hoping to subvert the next crisis of common sense storming the headlines "RTX 4090 is CRACKING Motherboards?!?!?!", as Reddit kids share photos of snapped-in-two mobo's after placing entire bodyweight on top of GPU just to make sure power connector was plugged in real real tight.

Not to say the 12V connector couldn't benefit from a revision with a snappier latch, but there seems to exist a subgroup of "learned helplessness" types among the customer base that needs everything baby proofed and child safety latched.
 
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Niner21

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After installing my 4090, reading all the articles, and watching the YouTube nonsense, I noticed something. I am wondering if some people are just plain not plugging in the connector to the card all the way in some cases. I thought mine was plugged in and before turning the system back on after some tinkering I gave it another check and sure enough it needed to be pushed in a little further to hear that very faint click. This connector doesn't have that definitive click like the eight pin connectors do currently. I physically checked the connector by holding a flashlight under the cable to notice this since the tab for this connector is there so this could easily be missed. Not taking anything away from the other theories about poor soldering and bending and whatnot, just a observation on my part.
I had a feeling I was onto something. Kudos to GN for getting to the bottom of it all and doing their extensive testing.
 

Wat

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So what about the adapters that looked like they were soldered by a 4 year old?
 

Wat

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They cover that, those still worked just fine as there was ample contact.
There is no way, no circumstance that such poor quality workmanship is acceptable. Unless that one connector was a staged fake, they still have an issue.
 

DPI

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There is no way, no circumstance that such poor quality workmanship is acceptable. Unless that one connector was a staged fake, they still have an issue.
They certainly looked like shit but ended up not being the culprit.
 

Wat

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They certainly looked like shit but ended up not being the culprit.
I dont give a carp how carefully you inserted the connector, those solders will fail with a few thermal cycles. I guess time and the number of those crap adapters will tell.
 

Slade

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I dont give a carp how carefully you inserted the connector, those solders will fail with a few thermal cycles. I guess time and the number of those crap adapters will tell.
I think you're a little behind on the news. There are 2 types of soldering jobs that exist, neither of which was shown to be the problem. See pics of all failures, melting happened within the plug pin ares, not the soldering joints. Many of us are pushing hundreds of hours of heat cycles now as it's been a month, potentially 125K. That's a good sample size to see if any soldering failures have occurred out of the 50 failed connectors so far.
 
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Zero issues here on a water blocked 4090 FE after 2 weeks of heavy use.

Kinda feel this whole thing is overblown and primary stems from a small set of folks simply not having their cables fully inserted and/or bending the connector heavily to the point of compromising plug contacts.

Nvidia really should have just stuck it out with the tried and true 8 pin connectors - just slapped 4 of them onto the 4090's pcb design. Yes, not quite as sexy and requires more physical board space, but it would have avoiding this plug fiasco and all the bad press.
 
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Zero issues here on a water blocked 4090 FE after 2 weeks of heavy use.

Kinda feel this whole thing is overblown and primary stems from a small set of folks simply not having their cables fully inserted and/or bending the connector heavily to the point of compromising plug contacts.

Nvidia really should have just stuck it out with the tried and true 8 pin connectors - just slapped 4 of them onto the 4090's pcb design. Yes, not quite as sexy and requires more physical board space, but it would have avoiding this plug fiasco and all the bad press.
It makes so much sense to me now why the more technical youtubers couldn't get the damn adapters to fail. They weren't dumb enough to not connect it properly. 🤷‍♂️
 

DPI

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it would have avoiding this plug fiasco and all the bad press.
I betcha think it's bad press. Drama = engagement. People love a godamn miniseries, and the excitement of getting to theorycraft on reddit all day with the electrical engineering expertise found in third graders.

Not that 4090 needed any push, and it wasn't planned out as any 4D PR chess move, but by none of the metrics I observe has it impacted primary or secondary market average selling prices.

Not directly related, but the folly in those FUD stories "Tesla catches fire while autopilot drives sleeping man" commissioned by orgs with big TSLA short positions, is they really only accomplished pushing Tesla Tesla Tesla into the public consciousness that much deeper.

Alas, in the misinformation age things are backwards, upside down, and not often what makes any sense.
 
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I betcha think it's bad press :). Drama = engagement. People love a godamn miniseries, and getting to theorycraft on reddit all day with the electrical engineering expertise found in third graders.

Not that 4090 needed any push, and it wasn't planned out as any 4D PR chess move, but by none of the metrics I observe has it impacted primary or secondary market average selling prices.

Not directly related, but the folly in those FUD stories "Tesla catches fire while man asleep with autopilot on" commissioned by orgs with big TSLA short positions, is they mostly just ended up keeping Tesla Tesla Tesla in the public consciousness that much further.

Alas, in the misinformation age things are backwards, upside down, and not often what you'd expect.
Ain't that the truth. Look no further than how the 4090 has sold. It's done so well that even Nvidia was surprised. And then people on this forum wonder why they keep raising the prices; when it just Nvidia trying to find what the market will bear.
 

TaintedSquirrel

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PCI-SIG has responded.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/pci-sig-12vhpower-nvidia-statement

In a statement to members that was then forwarded to the press by the group's PR department, the group stated "one manufacturer has reported to PCI-SIG potential safety issues with its use of the 12VHPWR connection." It also mentions an ongoing lawsuit, Genova v. Nvidia Corporation, which alleges that the 16-pin cables are "melting … posing a serious electrical and fire hazard."

From there, the company sent out a lightly-worded slap on the wrist to anyone involved with producing or selling products with the 16-pin, 12VHPWR connector.

"PCI-SIG wishes to impress upon all Members that manufacture, market or sell PCI-SIG technologies (including 12VHPWR connections) of the need to take all appropriate and prudent measures to ensure end user safety, including testing for the reported problem cases involving consumers as alleged in the above-referenced lawsuit," the group wrote. "Members are reminded that PCI-SIG specifications provide necessary technical information for interoperability and do not attempt to address proper design, manufacturing methods, materials, safety testing, safety tolerances or workmanship. When implementing a PCI-SIG specification, Members are responsible for the design, manufacturing, and testing, including safety testing, of their products."
 

Comixbooks

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Cables have these two small wires on the outside might have nothing to do with the cable but looks shody.
 
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NKD

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With the other picture on that reddit thread it was clear that it was not plugged in all the way.

Separately from that, CableMod does have a melting cable reputation on some other forums I am on (extension cables, replacement sets, etc.). Even if it was plugged in all the way, I just don't trust their stuff.
The 12vhpwr cables are horrible. I had the corsair one and the stupid pins come out the back like its a molex plug lmao. It's amazing to me that after market cable would do that.
 

1_rick

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With the other picture on that reddit thread it was clear that it was not plugged in all the way.

Separately from that, CableMod does have a melting cable reputation on some other forums I am on (extension cables, replacement sets, etc.). Even if it was plugged in all the way, I just don't trust their stuff.
Having not heard that before (nor ever bought from CableMod) I thought it was nice that u/Cablemod commented saying "PM me, we'll make it right."
 

NKD

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With the other picture on that reddit thread it was clear that it was not plugged in all the way.

Separately from that, CableMod does have a melting cable reputation on some other forums I am on (extension cables, replacement sets, etc.). Even if it was plugged in all the way, I just don't trust their stuff.
He did say he had to unclick it to pull it off so it was clicked in all the way. peopel are saying even if its clicked in you gotta push more to make sure there is no gap. To me only way to be 100% if you put your card in vertical position so the cable doesn't have much pull on it. Otherwise it can become lose I guess over time even if you click it in according to some users.
 
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