The Last of Us: Part II

Domingo

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I definitely have faith in what they're doing with this series. They seem to have quite a bit of reverence for the source material at the very least.
I wish I felt the same way about ND's other franchise, Uncharted, though. I have a distinct feeling that movie is going to be a disaster in spite of the high-profile cast.
 

T4rd

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Dunno about the show, but if ND is taking 18+ months after launch of Part 2 to put out multiplayer, I'm going to be severely disappointed if it's not coming with a full PS5 port for the main game as well, with more than a resolution bump to show for it too (added IQ like LoD, AF, RT, etc.).
 

Viper87227

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And the guy they hired to play Joel, his name is Pedro Pascal, great actor.

Pedro Pascal kicks ass, he should be a great choice for Joel. I'm a bit less convinced about Bella Ramsey doing Elle justice, but I'm going to keep an open mind about it.


Dunno about the show, but if ND is taking 18+ months after launch of Part 2 to put out multiplayer, I'm going to be severely disappointed if it's not coming with a full PS5 port for the main game as well, with more than a resolution bump to show for it too (added IQ like LoD, AF, RT, etc.).

I'm sure they are working on it, but I'm not sure I care. Sony charging $30 to upgrade Ghost of Tsushima really pisses me off. Most other companies are giving next gen boosts for free, and the "greedy" ones are asking $10 to close the gap between the $60 and $70 MSRP difference. Sony is bat shit fucking stupid trying to get me to drop $30 on a game I already paid $60 for a year ago, for a resolution bump and haptic feedback. You can be damn sure if/when TLOU 2 gets a proper PS5 port, it won't be free. The game already runs at 60 fps and looks insanely good on PS5, I'm not sure what more they could do that would warrant Sony's price to upgrade. I'm currently replaying it on PS5 and it looks absolutely bonkers at 60 fps. I'd honestly be quite happy with them just leaving it alone and working on the remake of the first one.
 

NotJay

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TLOU 2 ps5 port will be a $10 upgrade most likely, ghost of tsushima upgrade comes with the iki island expansion.
 

vegeta535

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TLOU 2 ps5 port will be a $10 upgrade most likely, ghost of tsushima upgrade comes with the iki island expansion.
You have to buy the expansion pack for $20 first then pay the $10 to upgrade to PS5 version.
 

Viper87227

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TLOU 2 ps5 port will be a $10 upgrade most likely, ghost of tsushima upgrade comes with the iki island expansion.

I don't want the expansion. It's stupid that I am required to buy it to also get the next gen features. It's not an accident that the expansion and next gen upgrade are a combined purchase. It's anti consumer bullshit and I'm not buying into it.
 

cybereality

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Well, the development to port it cost money. I'd rather they charge $10 and make it worthwhile, seems fair.
 

vegeta535

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Well, the development to port it cost money. I'd rather they charge $10 and make it worthwhile, seems fair.
MS is not charging. You buy a game and it works on the the Series x and xbone. Kike it been said most 3rd party games are not even charging for ps5 upgrades. Sony themselves getting a big head and think they can get away with it. MS is doing everything right this gen and I will not be surprised if Sony loses this gen in the end cause of their greedy. They are just repeating the the arrogance that cost them during the PS3 era.
 

NotJay

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welp that's because MS is making so much money they can afford to do so.
Last time I checked, MS has like 130b cash while Sony has like 30b on hand.
 

Viper87227

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Well, the development to port it cost money. I'd rather they charge $10 and make it worthwhile, seems fair.

While that's true, it's not like a colossal amount of work is happening here. It's upping the resolution and framerate on esenntually a computer. The haptics take more time, sure, but it's still probbaly incredibly minimal cost. This should just be considered part of the cost of doing business.

I can't think of anyone outside of Sony and 2K that isn't doing it for free. If a pc game released an HD texture pack as a paid dlc, people would flip their shit. That's essentially what's happening here.
 

vegeta535

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welp that's because MS is making so much money they can afford to do so.
Last time I checked, MS has like 130b cash while Sony has like 30b on hand.
Very true. To me it seems like MS is burning so much money to win this generations.
 

DPI

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MS is doing everything right this gen and I will not be surprised if Sony loses this gen in the end cause of their greedy. They are just repeating the the arrogance that cost them during the PS3 era.
Except releasing games. Still no firstparty library to speak of. Lots, apparently, in development and lots of studio acquisitions but still no results.

PS5 still most sought after console. I have both, and Series X I haven't even opened because there's nothing to play.
 
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cybereality

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Sony won't lose. PS5 is already fastest selling console in history, despite pandemic shortages. They are doing fine.
 
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Viper87227

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Except releasing games. Still no firstparty library to speak of. Lots, apparently, in development and lots of studio acquisitions but still no results.

PS5 still most sought after console, and not by accident.

I wonder if some of that has to do with their PC support as well. I've always been PC first, and I've always bought consoles soley for their respective first party titles. With Xbox, I no longer have to do that, and I doubt I'm alone. Same goes for the fact that they continue to support their previous gen consoles. For better or worse, they're selling less consoles because they're being more pro consumer and not trying to force people to upgrade.

Both of them will be fine. In the coming years, as MS starts to deliver on some of their recent acquisitions, I believe they'll take back much of the ground they've lost against Sony.
 

Domingo

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While it seems like Sony is nickel and diming people, I don't know if it really matters. People are buying up PS5's in seconds nearly a full year after they launched. I don't know if $10 matters based on the cost of the system and games anyway. In sales there are sweet spots where people don't care about incremental fees. $10 is probably where Sony's math said they can charge. That's the cost of a fast food meal or domestic macro 6-pack...maybe. They might lose a few customers, but thousands of people are going to pay it. MS might get some additional sales from people who like what they're doing, but I don't see anyone jumping ship over it.
 

vegeta535

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Except releasing games. Still no firstparty library to speak of. Lots, apparently, in development and lots of studio acquisitions but still no results.

PS5 still most sought after console. I have both, and Series X I haven't even opened because there's nothing to play.
No doubt. To me with a 3080 i have no reason to own a Serise X.
 

T4rd

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Sony can charge $10 on their exclusives and MS can't because they have no (comparable) exclusives. It's that simple. 3rd party publishers are mostly giving free upgrades on PS5 just as they are on Xbox. What I find more annoying are the PS5 upgrades locked behind special editions like Spiderman and Ghosts, forcing you to spend $30 or $70 respectively to upgrade a game that you already have on PS4.

I would bet that MS would be doing the same thing if they were the market leaders right now too with their own library of exclusives to sell their consoles. And they may still do once they start pumping out their own exclusives by all the studios they acquired in the next few years.

Also, last I heard on a recent podcast at least, they're apparently losing tons of money on Game Pass, which makes since given all the decent $60 day-one launch games they get on there and promos they hand out for it on top of that. If they can lose money on it for a couple more years while continuing to gain customers on it, then I'm sure it can pay off in the long run. But I'll bet they'll have to raise the price on it soon at least for it to stay sustainable, which they just did by $5/month on the PC side a couple weeks ago.
 
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Denpepe

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Except releasing games. Still no firstparty library to speak of. Lots, apparently, in development and lots of studio acquisitions but still no results.

PS5 still most sought after console. I have both, and Series X I haven't even opened because there's nothing to play.
PS5 might be the most sought after but the Series X is completely unavailable over here, for the PS5 I get an update every so often to say we got some but you are still to far back on the list to get one, for Series X nothing, nada, zip, squat

At this rate MS is going to lose since they have nothing to sell.

Also at this point if you don't have a Series X let's say by the end of the year, you may as well wait for the mid gen upgrade.
 

DPI

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the Xbox is totally pointless if you already have a mid-to-high end PC...PS5 is worth it for the exclusives...
Exception will be Xbox Halo Edition - expect $1200-1500 on eBay just before Xmas.
 

Verge

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Exception will be Xbox Halo Edition - expect $1200-1500 on eBay just before Xmas.
Meh. I played the original halo for a bit when some friends had their consoles strung together. I thought it was mediocre at best, and the "multiplayer" was a joke. Quake 3 and Counterstrike had been out for years at that point. Never played another second, nor have i ever wanted too. I don't get the obsession. I think alot of people who never had PC's got addicted to it.
 

DPI

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Halo Infinite is coming out for PC though, so... 🤷‍♂️
Sure, but my point was only that the street price of a halo themed special edition console will be off the charts. The fact it'll be on PC isn't a factor.
 

MavericK

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Sure, but my point was only that the street price of a halo themed special edition console will be off the charts. The fact it'll be on PC isn't a factor.
The comment you replied to was talking about Xbox having no exclusives, so it seemed like that was what you were referring to with Halo.
 

cybereality

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I was excited for XSX when I thought it was fully back-compat with all XB games. But the list is super small, it's like a few dozen games and not even the good ones.

Really wanted to play some games I missed like Riddick, Black, Panzer Dragon, Jet Set Radio, etc. I would have totally bought an XSX if it had real back-compat.
 

DPI

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The comment you replied to was talking about Xbox having no exclusives, so it seemed like that was what you were referring to with Halo.
Yep. Halo is still a console exclusive for Xbox though, and something that Microsoft can take credit for as firstparty, even though it'll also be on PC. I realize its way off topic here.

Mostly my criticism of MS is "give me a reason to boot up my Xbox you sons of bitches"
 
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chameleoneel

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I was excited for XSX when I thought it was fully back-compat with all XB games. But the list is super small, it's like a few dozen games and not even the good ones.

Really wanted to play some games I missed like Riddick, Black, Panzer Dragon, Jet Set Radio, etc. I would have totally bought an XSX if it had real back-compat.
Black and Panzer Dragoon: Orta are backward compatible
 

Domingo

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Anyone who hasn't played this game owes it to themself to snag it for $10. Especially if you have a PS5. 3 years later, it's still my favorite game from the last couple console generations.
 

Domingo

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Since there's nothing else out that can keep my attention, I'm replaying this game again. The Hillcrest level is a masterpiece. The way things start slow and eventually built toward pure chaos is brilliant. I can't think of a better individual level in anything else that compares. The more times I play/replay this game, the better it gets.
 

T4rd

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I'd like to replay it since it got the 60 FPS patch at least, but still into Horizon right now doing absolutely everything including upgrading all legendary weapons and outfits before doing another NG+.

I still think about this game and series a lot though and YouTube keeps recommending me videos about it. I saw this one recently and think he brings up some very valid points and a good alternative story for the game as well. Definitely worth a watch if you're as interested in these games at I am.

 

polonyc2

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When you think about Naughty Dog, superstar creators like Neil Druckmann and Amy Hennig come to mind, but there are plenty of other names that have contributed almost as much to the studio’s success...one of these names is Josh Scherr, who has written (alongside others) on almost every entry in the Uncharted series, particularly from Uncharted 4 on...he was also lead animator and director for Naughty Dog’s cutscenes until Uncharted 3 and was heavily involved in both the writing and design of The Last of Us Part II

Well, today Scherr announced he was leaving Naughty Dog after 21 years, saying it was “time for something new,” although he didn’t state what that is…

https://twitter.com/joshscherr/status/1547980997592985601
 

Domingo

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I'll forever wonder what Uncharted 4 could have been vs. what we actually got. They way the ND staff described it, it seems like they nearly made 2 entirely different games. We ended up getting a combination of the two when it was all said and done. When replaying it, it's pretty clear which half is which, too.
 

M76

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Definitely worth a watch if you're as interested in these games at I am.


Literally lost me at the first sentence, comparing this to the last jedi, LOL laughable.

And I should've closed the video right then and there, because he continues being wrong after that.

I feel that this is a video that I'll vehemently disagree with every step of the way.
 

T4rd

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Literally lost me at the first sentence, comparing this to the last jedi, LOL laughable.

And I should've closed the video right then and there, because he continues being wrong after that.

I feel that this is a video that I'll vehemently disagree with every step of the way.
Without going back through the thread, I wonder what grievances you have with this story, if any, then. If I know you though, I'm sure you'll have some. 😜

I generally loved the game, but the more I think about the story, the more issues I find with it. My initial issue with the game though was ND's blatant deception depicting Joel going on this journey with Ellie. Specifically the in the pre-launch trailer showing Joel grab Ellie on the shoulder saying "you think I'd let you do this alone?" Then you see in the game that it's actually Jessie who has that line. So they spent the time and money to have Troy Baker record that line and transpose his character into that scene for the trailer specifically to deceive us and indicate that Joel would be accompanying Ellie in this story.

They obviously sold this game as a continuation of Joel and Ellie's journey together. Then when he dies in the first hour or two, that's a hard pivot from what fans wanted and expected from this game. If Joel had died somehow at the end of this game instead, that would have been much more impactful and acceptable for most people. And that's what this guy's alternative story is correcting, along with the general pacing issues of the game's story as well.

Sorry, you can't say he's "wrong" about something as so subjective as a game's story. Simply disagree and either explain why or else your opinion holds exponentially less weight than this guy who published a 1h48m video on the game, dozens of other videos dissecting other games and their related themes, and a sci-fi book of his own on the market. He literally makes a living telling stories and how to do so effectively.

But I'll also say that I don't agree with some of his points or comparisons (like the Last Jedi that was probably more universally hated than this, but it's not that far off I think), but I'm certainly not going to dismiss all of that work and analysis he put into his essay on the game. As much as I still love the game, I think it's important to at least try to appear unbiased when I see others criticize it. Which I don't think you're doing here by plucking a couple irrelevant comments from him and using it to dismiss the much larger points he's making.
 
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M76

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Without going back through the thread, I wonder what grievances you have with this story, if any, then. If I know you though, I'm sure you'll have some. 😜
There are certain things that could've been handled or presented better, but in general I had no grievances with the story, it went almost exactly the way I expected / hoped it would.
I generally loved the game, but the more I think about the story, the more issues I find with it. My initial issue with the game though was ND's blatant deception depicting Joel going on this journey with Ellie. Specifically the in the pre-launch trailer showing Joel grab Ellie on the shoulder saying "you think I'd let you do this alone?" Then you see in the game that it's actually Jessie who has that line. So they spent the time and money to have Troy Baker record that line and transpose his character into that scene for the trailer specifically to deceive us and indicate that Joel would be accompanying Ellie in this story.
I never assumed anything, in fact I was hoping that we would get new player characters going into the game, and it was confirmed early on, after that nothing could stop me from enjoying the game.
They obviously sold this game as a continuation of Joel and Ellie's journey together. Then when he dies in the first hour or two, that's a hard pivot from what fans wanted and expected from this game. If Joel had died somehow at the end of this game instead, that would have been much more impactful and acceptable for most people. And that's what this guy's alternative story is correcting, along with the general pacing issues of the game's story as well.
Clearly not everyone expected that, that would've been a let down to me. I haven't watched the video beyond the first few minutes yet so I don't know if his corrections are as ridiculous to me as his initial thoughts.
Sorry, you can't say he's "wrong" about something as so subjective as a game's story. Simply disagree and either explain why or else your opinion holds exponentially less weight than this guy who published a 1h48m video on the game, dozens of other videos dissecting other games and their related themes, and a sci-fi book of his own on the market. He literally makes a living telling stories and how to do so effectively.
That's an appeal to authority, which I don't think is a valid point ever. I didn't have the will and time yesterday to explain why I think he is totally full of it, but might eventually get around to it.
But I'll also say that I don't agree with some of his points or comparisons (like the Last Jedi that was probably more universally hated than this, but it's not that far off I think), but I'm certainly not going to dismiss all of that work and analysis he put into his essay on the game. As much as I still love the game, I think it's important to at least try to appear unbiased when I see others criticize it. Which I don't think you're doing here by plucking a couple irrelevant comments from him and using it to dismiss the much larger points he's making.
Reducing the game to the level of TLJ and one of his other early comments which is the polar opposite of my experience are hardly irrelevant. But I'm not judging his corrections to be BS, I just expect them to be that.
 
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Domingo

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Personally, I like that they kept Joel's fate closely guarded. That actually added some level of impact when it happened. I can't say I've ever understood the weird obsession people have with his character. The entire second half of the game was a surprise to me, too. Obviously you play as Abby in the tutorial areas, but I'd kinda forgotten about that by the time you get to the encounter in the theater. Even after plaything as Abby for 20-30 minutes, I still figured her section would be short. It'll just provide a little additional background on things...but nope, it was almost like a whole new game I wasn't ready for. They even kinda did that again with the final chapter. Initially I wasn't sure that whole section of the game was really needed, but it does even things up a little for Ellie/Abby.

I definitely get people wishing they took a different direction for the game, but I like what we got. Even looking at Meta reviews, actual review sites are almost unanimous with praise. If you start reading negative user reviews, they're either political, they love Joel for some strange reason, or they're literally overlooking flaws in the first game only to lambast them here. There ARE some legit bad reviews, but you have to dig. You aren't going to please everyone and for a game that's supposedly among the most divisive, it hasn't hurt sales.
 

M76

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So here is me reacting to some of most glaring ideas expressed in the video.

  1. The Last of Us Part II is the Last Jedi of gaming
    I fundamentally disagree, the Last Jedi is generally accepted as terrible by star wars fans with any love for canon, even some of the early shills admitted later on that it is shoddily written garbage. So it did not divide the existing fanbase, we universally hated it.
    Ironically most of the shilling for TLJ was coming from outside the fanbase, while it was the hate for The Last of Us II that was perpetuated by outsiders. So they are actually opposites in that outsiders tried to gaslight fans that TLJ is actually good. While outsiders tried to convince us that The Last of Us Part II is the worst ever.

  2. Whether the game is good or not
    That's not even in question, the only thing that is up to be debated in my opinion is whether the story is good or not. The gameplay and combat mechanics are absolutely fucking amazing, I never enjoyed the combat so much in any TPS game, especially not on console. The animations are all next level, the combat is instantly rewarding, especially playing aggressively with Abby.

  3. The Last of Us Part II was aimed at people who enjoy bleak and depressive stories with no hope of the protagonist winning
    I absolutely despise stories that are depressive for the sake of being depressive, and operate with forced failures. However TLOU2 is not like that, you always adapt and overcome. I consider the end of the game hopeful, with a promise of something fresh for Part III. While I absolutely hate stories that make you work for something only to yank it away from you just because F U. I understand that some people might feel that way about TLOU2's ending, but I don't. I actually wanted Abby to survive. And it was my fan theory before finishing the game, that Ellie will end up inadvertently saving her by trying to hunt them down. So to me it couldn't have been more on point.

  4. If the first game was bleaker, that would make the second one better?!
    I can't even find words on how insane this sounds to me. Firstly because the first game was bleak, it showcased the worst of humanity, you went through terrible experiences. And even the ending was ambiguous. Joel was a cynical bastard to the very end. He finding love for Ellie actually made him more cynical. If he was truly a changed man he'd have not lied to Ellie at the end of the game. Making an Ellie+Joel BFF sequel after that ending would've made zero sense. It would've been based on a lie. I cannot wrap my head around how this guy thinks the first game has a positive tone, Joel literally killed the cure, and lied to Ellie about it just to save their relationship. That's a selfish cynical bastard right there.
    And Secondly even if TLOU1 was happy go lucky that wouldn't change my perception of the second.

  5. You have to stick to what you did in the first game, you cannot have that much creative liberty
    There are multiple acclaimed stories that kill off beloved characters left right and center. If everybody is safe there is no suspense, no stakes.
    You can't please everyone. Yeah, that is true, like here you are complaining that a game is too different than it's predecessor, but how many times have we heard "oh it's just the same game all over again, recycled" I bet you anything if TLOU2 was a variation on the TLOU1 Joel+Ellie adventure, that criticism would've cropped up not once, not twice, but a lot.
Wow and this was just the first 5 minutes. I have to take a break, this way it will take months to get through the entire video.
 
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