I have no idea how an IP with so much raw potential always falls flat on its face. I know it has a lot to do with the internal politics of GW. Have to take the bad with the good I suppose.Alot of these Warhammer games look good but alot if them fall flat this has everything but could be great. The last Games Workshop title I picked up I didn't care for much the one with Drizit. There was that Necromunda game that looked awesome was afraid to pick it up with the coop ai dog.
Probably because GW hands out the license to anybody who wants it, but GW really has been rotting away from within for the past couple decades.I have no idea how an IP with so much raw potential always falls flat on its face. I know it has a lot to do with the internal politics of GW. Have to take the bad with the good I suppose.
Alot of these Warhammer games look good but alot if them fall flat this has everything but could be great. The last Games Workshop title I picked up I didn't care for much the one with Drizit. There was that Necromunda game that looked awesome was afraid to pick it up with the coop ai dog.
I have no idea how an IP with so much raw potential always falls flat on its face. I know it has a lot to do with the internal politics of GW. Have to take the bad with the good I suppose.
I can't recall a single point in human history where the "spiritual successor" to any game was actually anywhere near as good as the original IP/Title that inspired it.
Great post... I was curious about GW in general. I played Warhammer online and it still is my favorite mmorpg next to older daoc. Was kinda confused to hear about age of sigmar more recently.Drizit is D&D not GW.
I've been into it in the late 80s and know a few people that work for GW and the situation is pretty screwy. Long post you are warned.
They have an issue where the fun stuff in their IP is so totally crazy you can't always do it justice outside of table top/book method. You couldn't get a proper 40k live action movie published because the sheer need for CGI and top notch effects would prevent you from making it as violent, abusive, sex and drugs, mocking of religion and right wing view points (which is what 40k actually is all about in it's lore) that it truly is. You'd had everybody coming at you from every angle about how horrible awful it was and people would freak. The games sort of reflect this where they dodge what's actually going on like 40k space marine, or hide all the truly screwed up stuff they actually do (Vermintide). So their stuff comes out as this wierd sort of cartoonish knockoff while avoiding the deeper lore that makes it fun.
Some of the games are pretty good though. Some of the DOW, Chaos Gate, Space Marine, Vermintide, Blood Bowl, are all good. Total War is good as well. But you can't show the IPs actual political view points and tounge in cheek message (conservatism, very bad, ruined everything, the Empire was against it and religion) or the actual horror of what the factions do (there is how you make space marines, penitent engines, or the skavens massive brood beats, slave factories, rampant cannabilism, and that's leaving out Slaneesh). They've had to tone down the IP in table top editions since the 80s because a lot of people did freak out Satanic Panic style over it "won't someone think of Jesus and the children" which is sort of sad.
They don't know what to do internally and are mired in issues. They have people showing up in Nazi unfiroms to 40k events not realizing that it's offensive or that half the point of 40k is lampoon and mocking the hell out of the right, even though they state that explicity and repeatedly. They had to tone the hell down out of Slaneesh because of the entire sex and drugs angle and parents freaked when they realized what the lore actually says. They still have some of the darker stuff like penitent engines (which look up for a laugh) but they sort of avoid the "how that happened issue" now. And a lot of their former writers (Matt Ward) screwed the actual lore beyond belief so now there are multiple competing cannons about what is actually what.
They are sort of in an odd place where what made their IP fun and unique when it was really cooked up in the 80s and they were handing out instructions of how to build a land speeder from an empty deoderant cannister or how to convert a whirlwind from a GI Joe is not possible now that they are main stream. They started out kinda punk rebelling against the Reagan/Thatcher era and social/religious conservatism as well and NEVER thought it would blow up like this. They can't really go back to it being publically traded and as big as they are. A lot of the classic books that set the lore like the old "Realm of Chaos: The Lost And The Damned" simply could not be published today. Also the rampant mocking of Christianity that was the Imperium with the key point of the Emperors success being wiping out religion and his crushing of The Last Church with glee because destroying religion was the only way to take out Chaos and actually advance humanity won't fly now due to how big GW is. You also can't have a faction that cooks humans down to drugs and snorts them before going into orgies (though it's now hinted it). They often go pretty "Grim Dark" in their books but they have to steer clear of that in a video game where someone could see it on a screen. You can even look at the old art VS the new art and see the change. The old stuff was insane, the new stuff is really all generic if not cartoonish.
IMHO, it's suffered for it. GW was a lot more fun when it didn't take it self seriously and spent it's time goring scared cows and lampooning stuff with a healthy heaping of "we didn't give a fuck" but that's not where they are today. You can get an idea here: https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2021/11/warhammer-40k-retro-three-decades-of-land-speeders.html you can see the evolution here
View attachment 464695View attachment 464696View attachment 464697View attachment 464698
You can tell the art and the models from the era and that's kinda where things stand. The difference in styles is start. On the tabletop side of things now you at least have Forge World. Forgeworld is super expensive and ships in resin and costs several times the amount GW does. But as it's rather esoteric and niche they can still touch the areas GW doesn't want to. So you get crazy stuff from them in both model level and lore. And they openly go where GW used to. They are a subsidiary, but kept seperate in some ways legally which I think lets them get away with it. What's interesting is that Forge Worlds content doesn't really show up in their video games. And their army books gets openly into the really screwed up stuff that GW has sanitized out of the mainstream 40k books. A lot of the old schoolers only play Forge World now, and the rules are the older more complex version than the newer streamlined.
Which gets into another thing. Like the sanitizing of the lore, the swath of crappy games, the rules simplifying and the change from Warhammer Fantasy to Age of Sigmar (that was a shit show and pissed a lot of people off) was done to please investors once they turned publically traded. Traded has also caused them to shut down fan content and hide it behind the "Warhammer Plus" paywall, which also hides unique miniatures as well. It's resulted in shitty hiring decisions as well. For example the return of Matt Ward. He's one of the leaders in fucking up the lore and army books but at the same time he did "increase sales" so it's a win for them. How he did this was bad though. In the Ward era each new codex/army book was more broken then then last. So to keep up with the meta you had to build a new army with each new release. Rather than picking your favorite army, which were not all equal but your luck changed via edition, it became pay to play with each new book. The era resulted in the shattering of fantasy into AOS and 40ks 8th edition. And all this idiocy resulted in the move of the old school 40k community moving to Forge World and oddly battletech.
Way too much ranting and writing and way too much inside baseball for most people. But the point is the company has gone schizophrenic since it was taken public which explains a lot of the current "WTF" about the stuff they license and pump out.
Great post... I was curious about GW in general. I played Warhammer online and it still is my favorite mmorpg next to older daoc. Was kinda confused to hear about age of sigmar more recently.