Star Citizen - media blowout, Chris Robert's new game

pendragon1

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LukeTbk

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Guys it doesn't matter I had a lot of fun telling people how rich Madoff was gonna make me, for hours on end. I got my money's worth even if I was still literally scammed.
Not sure if it can be in any way related, but there was a rumors that Americans authority did let Madoff continue for that long because in a Ponzi scheme the first people frauded can end up making a lot of money if the pyramid below them get big enough and that was happening, has Madoff started to fraud South Americans, Asians, etc... is American victim started to not only get all their money back but were making interesting profits. Not followed too much in recent years, but it felt like that for Americans victims they would be mostly made hole again.

Maybe that for early investor there some of the same force going on, if it is a fraud too deep and try to be made hole with the money of the latest generation of people getting scammed.
 

gamerk2

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I mean, any of us who understood Chris Roberts MO called this way back during the initial kickstarter. Roberts is the type of person you keep on as an advisor as an "idea guy", but you NEVER give "idea guys", let alone perfectionists, absolute design and budgetary authority.

I'm eagerly awaiting the announcement in 2025 that because SC's engine is dated, they'll have to move to a new one. But in all seriousness, we're starting to hit DNF territory now.
 
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staknhalo

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n be in any way related, but there was a rumors that Americans authority did let Madoff continue for that long because in a Ponzi scheme the first people frauded can end up making a lot of money if the pyramid below them get big enough and that was happening, has Madoff started to fraud South Americans, Asians, etc... is American victim started to not only get all their money back but were making interesting profits. Not followed too much in recent years, but it felt like that for Americans victims they would be mostly made hole again.

A pyramid scheme doesn't work unless you give them a taste to keep em coming back for more to begin with, you have to turn 'profits' on their initial investments, so they sink more money in, that you then use as the 'profits' for other new buy-ins, etc

"government' probably only allowed it cause they themselves foolishly bought in (individual politicians or officials) and was more "wait till I get my money back at least, then we shut it down"
 

DWolvin

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I mean, any of us who understood Chris Roberts MO called this way back during the initial kickstarter. Roberts is the type of person you keep on as an advisor as an "idea guy", but you NEVER give "idea guys", let alone perfectionists, absolute design and budgetary authority.

I'm eagerly awaiting the announcement in 2025 that because SC's engine is dated, they'll have to move to a new one. But in all seriousness, we're starting to hit DNF territory now.
In some ways I almost wish they'd move to UE5. It would be painful I'm sure, but 95% of the tools they need are already there.
 

gamerk2

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In some ways I almost wish they'd move to UE5. It would be painful I'm sure, but 95% of the tools they need are already there.
There's a reason why only major studios develop their own engines these days; it's expensive. And even then, trying to use engines for more then they are designed for (*cough*Frostbite*cough*) leads to many, many developmental problems that would otherwise be avoided.
 

DWolvin

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There's a reason why only major studios develop their own engines these days; it's expensive. And even then, trying to use engines for more then they are designed for (*cough*Frostbite*cough*) leads to many, many developmental problems that would otherwise be avoided.
Yeah, it's certainly possible that moving would cause more problems than it would solve, but I've always thought Cryengine was an odd choice.
 

Dan_D

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Not sure if it can be in any way related, but there was a rumors that Americans authority did let Madoff continue for that long because in a Ponzi scheme the first people frauded can end up making a lot of money if the pyramid below them get big enough and that was happening, has Madoff started to fraud South Americans, Asians, etc... is American victim started to not only get all their money back but were making interesting profits. Not followed too much in recent years, but it felt like that for Americans victims they would be mostly made hole again.

Maybe that for early investor there some of the same force going on, if it is a fraud too deep and try to be made hole with the money of the latest generation of people getting scammed.
As I've said numerous times, I don't think Chris Roberts and company set out to create the situation they find themselves in. I think CIG had the best intentions but ended up with more money than they knew what to do with. The game's scope grew and grew to a point where they could no longer manage the project but money kept rolling in. Now we are at a point where they are in super deep and need to keep cash coming in to finish the game but also because they want to keep the party going.

To be clear, I think the only reason why we haven't seen these guys on an episode of American Greed is because the legal system hasn't caught up with the times. Technically, crowd funded games and projects through things like Kickstarter are not the same as investments. They don't fall under the same laws that make Ponzi schemes illegal. At some point, I think this whole mess with Star Citizen will be a driving force to change the laws in this country to get crowd funding regulated in some fashion. It wouldn't be necessary if people had figured out that Star Citizen was a mismanaged mess from almost the beginning and that it would bear no fruit.

There is a certain percentage of people like myself that knew this was a possibility from the start. I only have the initial $45 buy in or whatever it was. I didn't go any further than that. There is another percentage of people who feel like they've gotten their money's worth out of the tech demos that have been released and that's fine. However, it's not a complete game and it doesn't match up with what's been advertised. CIG and Chris Roberts need to be held accountable for that. People raged at CDPR for all the ways that Cyberpunk 2077 failed to meet expectations and this cluster fuck shouldn't be handled any differently. If anything, people should be raging about being strung along for so long and how ridiculous it is that these idiots couldn't deliver Squadron 42 at the very least by now. It's a Wing Commander type game and something that should have been easily done. They are practically the easiest types of games to create.

While I wouldn't call it a good game, Star Wars Squadrons is a Wing Commander type game and it started development and was released after Star Ponzi began development and before it finished. Shit, No Man's sky launched, failed and was completely turned around in this time frame. Funny thing is, CIG really has no incentive to finish this mess. As long as people keep buying JPEGs they'll keep the party going. Finishing the game would bring it under scrutiny and at this point, it could never measure up to the hype and expectations that CIG set for themselves. It's similar to how Cyberpunk 2077 will never be the game we were promised, no matter how good it gets.
Yeah, it's certainly possible that moving would cause more problems than it would solve, but I've always thought Cryengine was an odd choice.
For 2012 it wasn't. At the time, it was the most advanced game engine out there. UE had limitations that would severely limit what could be done with the game.
 

LukeTbk

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Also for some games (this being a candidate), the part when you think about it and day dream, and speculate can be more fun than the actual possible result will ever be, which make people getting involved in it not crazy at all, after all the other scenario is what....just a video game.
 

gamerk2

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For 2012 it wasn't. At the time, it was the most advanced game engine out there. UE had limitations that would severely limit what could be done with the game.
UE was more flexible; CryEngine was designed first and foremost as a FPS engine, and as EA has found out with Frostbite, it's not easy converting a FPS engine for other uses.
 

Elios

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don't think Chris Roberts and company set out to create the situation they find themselves in
no. but he has track record of this see Freelancer where they finally had remove him from the project and it still took a year clean up what was left in to a shippable game
He has been working under some one or he will never ship. and Freelancer wasnt even the first time. there is a reason he was kick out of Origin Systems too... and Hollywood...
 

Elios

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gamerk2

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Bawjaws

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Haha, they have dropped the pretence of being accountable entirely 🤣 And the day after that announcement, they announce yet another ship sale 🤣 Which will bring even more cash into Chris's pockets 🤣

You really couldn't make this shit up.
 

pendragon1

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Haha, they have dropped the pretence of being accountable entirely 🤣 And the day after that announcement, they announce yet another ship sale 🤣 Which will bring even more cash into Chris's pockets 🤣

You really couldn't make this shit up.
people keep tossing money at him, so hell keep doing it, and they will be in to defend it any minute now. so stupid...
 

FearTheCow

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You guys don't understand game development.

You get your moneys worth making up your own missions, story, and fun in the 'verse.

You all just don't understand how dealing with constant crashing, glitches, lack of gameplay loops, and player counts makes SC the best Damm game ever!
 

FighterAce124

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The roadmap never made them accountable, which is the entire reason they are changing it, and that people freaked out over "missing" dates on it. Its never been a "this is what will be there", its only a few morons who think that and scream louder than a fat guy chasing a cheesecake delivery truck.

It never meant anything more than a "maybe" and they never claimed it meant more than that, so nothing at all is changing other than them not making it visible since some people cant learn.

Haters of this game will read into anything to make it seems worse than it is.... lol
 
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FearTheCow

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The roadmap never made them accountable, which is the entire reason they are changing it, and that people freaked out over "missing" dates on it. Its never been a "this is what will be there", its only a few morons who think that and scream louder than a fat guy chasing a cheesecake delivery truck.

It never meant anything more than a "maybe" and they never claimed it meant more than that, so nothing at all is changing other than them not making it visible since some people cant learn.

Haters of this game will read into anything to make it seems worse than it is.... lol
Lol, so the people mad that CIG can't deliver on items they out on the roadmap for years on end are the problem and not CIG being unable to deliver?

How's the salvage gameplay these days? You know, the gameplay loop that was on the roadmap to be released years ago.

Ironically, your last statement is semi correct, but only because you can't turn this shit show into anything worse than it already is.
 

Aireoth

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The roadmap never made them accountable, which is the entire reason they are changing it, and that people freaked out over "missing" dates on it. Its never been a "this is what will be there", its only a few morons who think that and scream louder than a fat guy chasing a cheesecake delivery truck.

It never meant anything more than a "maybe" and they never claimed it meant more than that, so nothing at all is changing other than them not making it visible since some people cant learn.

Haters of this game will read into anything to make it seems worse than it is.... lol
Naa, its pretty much as worse as it is, don't have much further to go before it hits worst status.

You are right though, some people can't learn.
 

lopoetve

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The roadmap never made them accountable, which is the entire reason they are changing it, and that people freaked out over "missing" dates on it. Its never been a "this is what will be there", its only a few morons who think that and scream louder than a fat guy chasing a cheesecake delivery truck.

It never meant anything more than a "maybe" and they never claimed it meant more than that, so nothing at all is changing other than them not making it visible since some people cant learn.

Haters of this game will read into anything to make it seems worse than it is.... lol

Lol, so the people mad that CIG can't deliver on items they out on the roadmap for years on end are the problem and not CIG being unable to deliver?

How's the salvage gameplay these days? You know, the gameplay loop that was on the roadmap to be released years ago.

Ironically, your last statement is semi correct, but only because you can't turn this shit show into anything worse than it already is.
You're both right. They should be doing better, given the funding and everything else that they've received - I've said this many times. At the same time, the scope is so bloody ambitious that it's easy to see how a dreamer without real product and project management could end up where he is. And I'm both a relatively large purchaser in the game, but also a realist that this will be a very bumpy ride. I GET why the Coffee attendant AI is the place they're working now - it's a non-critical shop, the other shops work via kiosk just fine right now (and can be quickly hacked to sell things to if they wanted, which they SHOULD want), etc. But it looks stupid.

If I were them, and wanted to get serious about this - maybe release salvage, but most critically, add in Pyro, finish up server meshing, fix the critical bugs, and call it a true MVProduct. That's your first major release. Now you have a few hundred people and two systems - that's the START to the game. Add in more systems. Polish. Polish. Polish. If you try to nail it all at once, like they're sorta doing (tech wise, don't fix things that will be changed, don't add things that will be changed, don't WHATEVER to things that might change), you'll NEVER catch up with real-time. They need to get a baseline, and then experiment with new systems as they go. Right now, the baseline is an alpha, and it's barely a game.
 

FighterAce124

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Lol, so the people mad that CIG can't deliver on items they out on the roadmap for years on end are the problem and not CIG being unable to deliver?

How's the salvage gameplay these days? You know, the gameplay loop that was on the roadmap to be released years ago.

Ironically, your last statement is semi correct, but only because you can't turn this shit show into anything worse than it already is.

CIG isnt not delivering.... they never promised releases or dates based on the roadmap. Its a projection. So people being mad that things dont make the roadmap dates are literally angry over their own assumptions - they chose to take it as a set date or goal or patch, despite it having never been stated as such.

So yeah, people mad that roadmap isnt met are wrong, because they are ascribing a function to it that was explicitly stated it was not.


I dont care about much else, but people being angry about things they caused themselves drives me nuts. People are mad because they want it to have been exactly what it wasnt.... its their own fault for wanting it to be something it was never intended to be.



There are an ocean load of problems with SC and the development, but this is not one of them. This is not a legitimate reason to be upset with CIG. Things taking years longer than they thought? Sure, be upset. But not meeting a deadline that wasnt a deadline, nor a promise? Yeah, no.
 

Aireoth

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CIG isnt not delivering.... they never promised releases or dates based on the roadmap. Its a projection. So people being mad that things dont make the roadmap dates are literally angry over their own assumptions - they chose to take it as a set date or goal or patch, despite it having never been stated as such.

So yeah, people mad that roadmap isnt met are wrong, because they are ascribing a function to it that was explicitly stated it was not.


I dont care about much else, but people being angry about things they caused themselves drives me nuts. People are mad because they want it to have been exactly what it wasnt.... its their own fault for wanting it to be something it was never intended to be.



There are an ocean load of problems with SC and the development, but this is not one of them. This is not a legitimate reason to be upset with CIG. Things taking years longer than they thought? Sure, be upset. But not meeting a deadline that wasnt a deadline, nor a promise? Yeah, no.

That is a shit way to hand wave away legitimate criticism about the roadmap, which frankly RSI 100% deserves. The problem is RSI itself, and the compounded impact of their total and disastrous mismanagement.

People did not cause this themselves, people wanted some degree of accountability from an already overly delayed, completely mismanaged product. RSI response to the desire was to implement the roadmap, incase this is not clear that was RSI's decision, not the fans. What this resulted in was almost a real time view of the mismanagement that anyone with an ounce of sensibility saw, and anyone with a gram of gaming industry knowledge knew a project like this by Chris Roberts would be.

So now more people are rightly calling BS, albeit a decade late and a buck short, because it became way to apparent to just hand wave away and release internet shills to spread FUD and propaganda, like how long it took to develop Witcher 3, or you just don't get the vision.

Frankly, a near decade of those shills has taken its toll as well, with nothing to show for it in 2022 other than a buggy, half baked, alpha that isn't near the scope originally pitched, and SQ42 nowhere in sight. Personally I've noticed most of those shills on the internet have gone quite, there is hardly anyone left defending this cluster buck of a game.

Blaming fans, backers, and even the public for this backlash is laughable. This is entirely on RSI and CR, and frankly they should be sued out of existence.

*Edit RSI/CIG
 
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grifter_66

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CIG isnt not delivering.... they never promised releases or dates based on the roadmap. Its a projection. So people being mad that things dont make the roadmap dates are literally angry over their own assumptions - they chose to take it as a set date or goal or patch, despite it having never been stated as such.

So yeah, people mad that roadmap isnt met are wrong, because they are ascribing a function to it that was explicitly stated it was not.


I dont care about much else, but people being angry about things they caused themselves drives me nuts. People are mad because they want it to have been exactly what it wasnt.... its their own fault for wanting it to be something it was never intended to be.



There are an ocean load of problems with SC and the development, but this is not one of them. This is not a legitimate reason to be upset with CIG. Things taking years longer than they thought? Sure, be upset. But not meeting a deadline that wasnt a deadline, nor a promise? Yeah, no.

Jesus Christ, you're all a bunch of full on cultists now aren't you. Do you actually understand the purpose of a roadmap? If you don't want to be held accountable for your bullshit don't make claims you're incapable of following through on and share them with the world.
 

Ebernanut

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CIG isnt not delivering.... they never promised releases or dates based on the roadmap. Its a projection. So people being mad that things dont make the roadmap dates are literally angry over their own assumptions - they chose to take it as a set date or goal or patch, despite it having never been stated as such.

So yeah, people mad that roadmap isnt met are wrong, because they are ascribing a function to it that was explicitly stated it was not.


I dont care about much else, but people being angry about things they caused themselves drives me nuts. People are mad because they want it to have been exactly what it wasnt.... its their own fault for wanting it to be something it was never intended to be.



There are an ocean load of problems with SC and the development, but this is not one of them. This is not a legitimate reason to be upset with CIG. Things taking years longer than they thought? Sure, be upset. But not meeting a deadline that wasnt a deadline, nor a promise? Yeah, no.
A roadmap isn't a promise but it also isn't a wild guess that should be completely ignored, otherwise what's the point of even having one.

It's one thing to miss a few projected dates even by quite a bit but it's another to miss most and still have many still in limbo. They put out the roadmap in an attempt to convince people they were making some progress but it ended up illustrating just how messed up the production process is instead so they're predictably getting rid of it, I'm not sure why they ever thought it would be a good idea.
 

Bawjaws

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A roadmap isn't a promise but it also isn't a wild guess that should be completely ignored, otherwise what's the point of even having one.

It's one thing to miss a few projected dates even by quite a bit but it's another to miss most and still have many still in limbo. They put out the roadmap in an attempt to convince people they were making some progress but it ended up illustrating just how messed up the production process is instead so they're predictably getting rid of it, I'm not sure why they ever thought it would be a good idea.
Yep, they had control of the roadmap entirely and could have included as much or as little as they liked, and yet they still managed to produce a roadmap that showed that they are consistently failing to deliver on their plans. No wonder they binned it off - accountability fucking sucks when you aren't delivering the goods.
 

mope54

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My account has two AMD packages on it. Haven't even downloaded the game in over 5 years and not planning on ever doing so.
 

FearTheCow

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It's fascinating seeing people talk about how great the game is, how they got their money's worth, and how it blows everything else out of the water. Then you go look at what they are hyping up and it is a dumpster fire that's only 20% full and on the edge of tipping over at any moment.

I feel bad for anyone who has spent a bunch of money on this when/if they actually realize that they were fed bull shit and lies the last 12 years.
 

Jabroni31169

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Glad I found this thread, JackFrags just did a video on this game and I thought about checking it out. He mentions some of the glitches but dang, 470 pages later I think I'll step away from this one.
 

DWolvin

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Yeah, if you are curious wait for a free fly weekend and check it out then. It's more 'Sim' than 'game' to me and I feel it's very polarizing (as you will see if you hang here). I'm still one of the people that has enough hours in it that I don't complain on that front, but I want to see them put up or go away. But when it's working it's an incredible experience.
 

Mchart

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It's fascinating seeing people talk about how great the game is, how they got their money's worth, and how it blows everything else out of the water. Then you go look at what they are hyping up and it is a dumpster fire that's only 20% full and on the edge of tipping over at any moment.

I feel bad for anyone who has spent a bunch of money on this when/if they actually realize that they were fed bull shit and lies the last 12 years.
People who fall for pyramid schemes / similar 'investment' scams act like this all the time. It's no surprise. They can't admit that they were stolen from.
 

Colonel Sanders

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It's fascinating seeing people talk about how great the game is, how they got their money's worth, and how it blows everything else out of the water. Then you go look at what they are hyping up and it is a dumpster fire that's only 20% full and on the edge of tipping over at any moment.

I feel bad for anyone who has spent a bunch of money on this when/if they actually realize that they were fed bull shit and lies the last 12 years.
if there's anything i've learned over the past 8 years or so it's that human beings are exceptionally capable of deluding themselves.
 

mope54

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Yeah, if you are curious wait for a free fly weekend and check it out then. It's more 'Sim' than 'game' to me and I feel it's very polarizing (as you will see if you hang here). I'm still one of the people that has enough hours in it that I don't complain on that front, but I want to see them put up or go away. But when it's working it's an incredible experience.
It's free fly until sometime today. It's polarizing but notably most often between those who haven't played it and those who have. Rarely do I see that same polarization among people who own and have played it. There's people like me who check it out every few years whereas others are playing daily; most of the vitriol comes from those who neither own nor play it, though, and that's worth pointing out.
 

Mchart

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It's free fly until sometime today. It's polarizing but notably most often between those who haven't played it and those who have. Rarely do I see that same polarization among people who own and have played it. There's people like me who check it out every few years whereas others are playing daily; most of the vitriol comes from those who neither own nor play it, though, and that's worth pointing out.
I refuse to play this at this point because the original kickstarter was also for SQ42 first.
 
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