Apple announces Self Service Repair

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pendragon1

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well then. i guess the pressure is starting to work.

"Apple parts, tools, and manuals — starting with iPhone 12 and iPhone 13 — available to individual consumers"
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/11/apple-announces-self-service-repair/

"CUPERTINO, CALIFORNIA Apple today announced Self Service Repair, which will allow customers who are comfortable with completing their own repairs access to Apple genuine parts and tools. Available first for the iPhone 12 and iPhone 13 lineups, and soon to be followed by Mac computers featuring M1 chips, Self Service Repair will be available early next year in the US and expand to additional countries throughout 2022. Customers join more than 5,000 Apple Authorized Service Providers (AASPs) and 2,800 Independent Repair Providers who have access to these parts, tools, and manuals."
 

vegeta535

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Seriously what is the catch? Can't watch the video atm.
 
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Armenius

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Seriously what is the catch. Can't watch the video atm.
Looks like it's a copy-pasta of the IRK IRP program, but opened to more people. They're only offering screens, batteries and cameras at first. And only for the newest iPhone. Seems like it's just another tool to try and misguide politicians considering right-to-repair legislation.
 

pendragon1

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Looks like it's a copy-pasta of the IRK IRP program, but opened to more people. They're only offering screens, batteries and cameras at first. And only for the newest iPhone. Seems like it's just another tool to try and misguide politicians considering right-to-repair legislation.
that too ^^^ :)
Seriously what is the catch? Can't watch the video atm.
 

GiGaBiTe

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they are offering "assemblies" instead of individual parts i guess. so: bad screen is the whole lid. just his theory though but thats how it worked at my work anyways....

With how difficult manufacturers are making it to repair devices, in many cases, whole assemblies need to be replaced. Like the Surface Pro has the digitizer glued to the LCD panel, you can't change one without changing the other and it makes it hideously expensive. So if you cracked the digitizer by dropping it, the screen has to go with it, even if there's nothing wrong with it. But that's just one example, all device manufacturers do dumb shit like that. Oh, and the charge port for the surface pro is like $70, so better not spill anything on it.

I remember this horrendous HP Gaming laptop I worked on several years back. If the keyboard went bad, you literally had to disassemble the laptop down to the last screw and replace the entire upper case assembly because the keyboard was riveted into it. The only other company to do that shit at the time was Apple with their riveted in keyboards, since the dawn of laptops, almost everyone used detachable keyboards that could be replaced when they eventually failed.
 

TheGardenTool

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they are offering "assemblies" instead of individual parts i guess. so: bad screen is the whole lid. just his theory though but thats how it worked at my work anyways....

Wouldn’t be surprised. My ‘09 MBP got water damage on the keyboard. Apple Store and local independent authorized repairer both said it would be very expensive since it was only available as an assembly with the aluminum frame around the keyboard, trackpad, etc.

I ended up buying a first generation aluminum MacBook that had screen damage for $10, swapped just the keyboard and viola worked perfectly for a number of years. I suppose it still works but battery is toast and it throttles itself so haven’t used it in years now either.
 

UnknownSouljer

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Apple products generally aren’t user repairable or user serviceable. And what I mean by that is by the general public.

While I think there’s quite a few people in the [H] that are likely capable, I think it’s far beyond the expectations that any normal person is going to be able to properly apply a thermal band to the edges of a phone and pry off the screen without also destroying the phone or otherwise causing additional damage.

What I see this doing in general is just allowing Apple to get even more repair money as then they can repair people’s mistakes when it all goes wrong.

It also will likely cause mom and pops as well as other repair companies to lose far more money than they do. Really it will just consolidate their position. They’ll be selling all the parts and the kits. They’ll make the money either way.
 
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1_rick

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they are offering "assemblies" instead of individual parts i guess.
Actually, I think this time they are offering individual parts. Louis mentioned being able to get just the glass for a laptop screen, and not the whole assembly.

It still seems like a lot of work, though. Apparently you have to use a service manual to figure out what's wrong, and then you can place an order with Apple for replacement parts, if they offer a part to replace whatever's wrong with your device.
 

M76

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Actually, I think this time they are offering individual parts. Louis mentioned being able to get just the glass for a laptop screen, and not the whole assembly.

It still seems like a lot of work, though. Apparently you have to use a service manual to figure out what's wrong, and then you can place an order with Apple for replacement parts, if they offer a part to replace whatever's wrong with your device.
No, he said often only the screen needs to be relpaced but apple only sells the entire lid of the laptop to independent repair providers in the program. And chances are this is just that extended to the customers. So if your screen cracks you can't buy the screen for $150, you have to buy the entire top half of the laptop for $850, at which point it is economically not viable and 99.9% will just buy a new laptop.
 

Aurelius

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Looks like it's a copy-pasta of the IRK IRP program, but opened to more people. They're only offering screens, batteries and cameras at first. And only for the newest iPhone. Seems like it's just another tool to try and misguide politicians considering right-to-repair legislation.
Might be like the IRP program, but it's available for both the iPhone 12 and 13 families out of the gate and will apply to Macs (and seemingly other devices) soon.

I'm sure this is meant to placate politicians, but remember that this also comes as Apple released new MacBook Pros with easier-to-remove batteries and made it easier for independents to swap iPhone 13 displays without breaking Face ID. Seems like Apple is edging back toward easier repairs, although you're unlikely to get a Fairphone with a fruit logo any time soon.
 

Spun Ducky

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I love the idea of right to repair but reality is far too few people can do it right. The other issue is unlike the 1950s people try to sue when they mess up the device further. It is also just another massive cost to maintain public service info and parts. Yes they will have this internally but again public facing means jack wagons suing or eating company time.

It may sound like I am anti repair but more so of the mindset this is why we can't have nice things. The public is ferocious and so are companies now from the back and forth that got us here.
 

Aurelius

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If Apple's historic pricing is any guidance, this isn't going to make repairs economically viable.
It probably will in some cases, but not others. A fresh battery? Sure, that's a relatively easy fix. But it won't be so hot if you have to replace an entire mainboard for an issue with one small chip. There will be over 200 parts available, mind...
 

Iratus

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You don’t really have much choice to use assemblies etc, the tolerances on modern devices are insane.

It’s not like getting a waterproof computer arguably more powerful than a circa 2013 desktop, in a device weighing a couple of hundred grams is electronically trivial.

Even 10 years ago they were insanely difficult to make. They are literally bought in as assemblies (as it allows for much cheaper demand / supply planning when they can get contract manufacturers to bid on say multiple lots 20 million screens with an attached digitiser at x defect rate and tolerances on these dates) and then the assemblies are put together by hand in the factories (its often impractical to retool robotic final assembly for high end phones, it’s the low end ones that get it)

You never really see component parts is my point. Doesn’t work like that and hasn’t for a very long time. Source: Used to work for Nokia and spend half my life at a smartphone factory.

💯 they could do laptops and tablets in an easier to repair way though. That shit is just dickish behavior.
 

M76

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It probably will in some cases, but not others. A fresh battery? Sure, that's a relatively easy fix. But it won't be so hot if you have to replace an entire mainboard for an issue with one small chip. There will be over 200 parts available, mind...
Except they sell the battery with the top cover of the laptop, every component included. Which makes it not viable. It's like a car manufacturer saying, you need new plugs? Replace the cylinder heads!
 

Jinto

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Just having OEM display and battery available is a huge improvement.
 
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they are offering "assemblies" instead of individual parts i guess. so: bad screen is the whole lid. just his theory though but thats how it worked at my work anyways....
Rossmann is an idiot with an axe to grind, but he uses a confident tone to tell people what they want to hear and thus he gets his likes and subs. If he wants to complain that Apple won't sell him the glass, adhesive, digitizer, backlight, and flex cable as individual parts, then maybe he should complain that Ford will only sell him an oil pan rather than a pile of aluminum ingot so he can cast his own?

The tolerancing on phones that people pay for (rather than getting it free from the carrier) is literally too tight to make a phone from a random stack of OEM parts. What the OEMs do to assemble their phones is called "kitting." Each part naturally has some variation in every dimension. Some pieces of glass, for example, are a little bit thinner than others while some are a little bit thicker.

On a free phone, the OEM just takes any part that falls within that part's allowable range and then slaps it together with the rest of the parts which are within their respective allowable ranges. This makes for an inexpensive phone that has ok build quality and is a bit extra large in order to account for that variation. One thing that the OEM could potentially do to make the phone better and smaller is to decrease that allowable range. The problem here is those ranges can only become so tight before it becomes impossible to make parts that hit the requirements. What, then, is a flagship OEM supposed to do to make the next generation thinner and smaller? Enter kitting.

Kitting is where each component is checked for dimensions and then put together in a kit with complementary parts. Thicker glass gets paired with a thinner digitizer so that the total thickness of the display subassembly is within spec. If you tried to replace broken thin glass with brand new thick glass, it simply wouldn't fit. This is probably the biggest reason why Apple won't be selling individual components down to the level Rossmann wants (not that he'd be satisfied anyway - if they sold just the glass, he'd complain that it's already coated). This is also how Apple's own repair program operates.

💯 they could do laptops and tablets in an easier to repair way though. That shit is just dickish behavior.
Dell could do it this way since they sell creaky clunky room temp garbage. The iPad is built exactly like the iPhone, and Mac laptops have been kitted for years. The SSDs and RAM are soldered because connectors are too large. Sure, Apple could go back to using connectors for that stuff - but then their laptops would be chonky just like everyone else's.
 
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pendragon1

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blah blah blah he should complain that Ford will only sell him an oil pan rather than a pile of aluminum ingot so he can cast his own? blah blah blah
no that would be like insisting he buy the whole bottom end.
sounds like youre grinding an axe too...
 

Aurelius

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no that would be like insisting he buy the whole bottom end.
sounds like youre grinding an axe too...
Thunderdolt is being hyperbolic, but I'd say there are some points: it's not as simple as making every single part replaceable, and people put waaaay too much faith in Louis Rossmann. You'd think he was a god making pronouncements from on high based on the sheer number of tech enthusiasts who immediately turn to him and explicitly trust whatever he says. No, he's just a guy running a repair shop and a YouTube channel. He raises some valid concerns, but he also has vested interests in attacking Apple and creates a distorted picture of how important repair issues really are. They matter for some people... but most just don't care, and it's not really a reason to swear off the company's products.
 
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There's also the other issue of how to maintain security when there is no such thing as validated hardware (Rossmann's preference). Why doesn't that ever get mentioned? Rossmann used to complain that he couldn't replace the TouchID sensors with something from wish.com. What could possibly go wrong there?
 
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1_rick

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You'd think he was a god making pronouncements from on high based on the sheer number of tech enthusiasts who immediately turn to him and explicitly trust whatever he says.
Of course, if you stop listening when you see that and miss him exhorting people NOT to do that, you'd probably wind up with the opinion that he's nothing more than an idiot with an axe to grind.

As an aside, you know what's cool? Samsung makes separate USB daughterboards for a lot of their phones, so if you break the port, you can get a new board for like $30 on ebay. When I broke the screen on my Mi Mix 2S, I was able to order a replacement screen+lcd+digitizer+midframe for a reasonable price.
 
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pendragon1

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go screech at him or start a "i hate rossmann" thread in genmay. this is about apple.
 

Aurelius

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Of course, if you stop listening when you see that and miss him exhorting people NOT to do that, you'd probably wind up with the opinion that he's nothing more than an idiot with an axe to grind.

As an aside, you know what's cool? Samsung makes separate USB daughterboards for a lot of their phones, so if you break the port, you can get a new board for like $30 on ebay. When I broke the screen on my Mi Mix 2S, I was able to order a replacement screen+lcd+digitizer+midframe for a reasonable price.
But that's not how many enthusiasts behave. The OP started this thread by posting a Rossmann video immediately after the news, as if his word was the definitive one on the subject; they didn't even offer a comment of their own, a thought of their own, until later. If Rossmann is Brian in Life of Brian, telling people to think for themselves and be individuals, then some tech enthusiasts are the ones mindlessly repeating "yes! we are all individuals!" without understanding what it means.

That is a nice touch from Samsung. Mind you, I imagine that's less likely the higher you go up the Samsung ladder... not counting on a USB mini board for a Galaxy Z Flip 3, for example!
 
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1_rick

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That is a nice touch from Samsung. Mind you, I imagine that's less likely the higher you go up the Samsung ladder... not counting on a USB mini board for a Galaxy Z Flip 3, for example!
S9s and S10s, I think, so flagship-level. I haven't checked the newer ones, although I just looked now, and the Z Flip 3 does have one! I haven't bothered to check on the pricing.
 
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