Threadripper is no more!

LukeTbk

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but an entire Mac Studio can be had for the same price that I paid for just the 3990x CPU and it got the same score as it in multithreaded Geekbench workloads and crushed it in single threaded performance.

Like you said it is quite a specific workload too right ? If it is really a fully parallel workload (and not specifically optimize on the Apple side) I imagine your CPU would still be around 3 time the performance.

Cinebench R23 (if those are actually representative),
3990x: 74,422
M1 ultra: 23,566
12700k:22,812

Geekbench
3990x: 25,166
M1 ultra: 24,055

That quite the difference in relative performance between the 2 there.
 

bobzdar

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Big core counts, big PCIE lane counts, high ram amounts (without fighting it). My workstations run a minimum of 128G of RAM - I regularly use 3+ PCIE slots - and most of the time, there's at least one mega-VM (8-12 cores, 64G of ram) running on it.

I have a 3960X system as the main workstation, and we built a "micro" version with a 3950X and x570. The 3950 does fine, but getting it happy with >64G of memory was a PITA, while the TR box just took a bump to SOC voltage. The 3950 is already maxed out (GPU, USB 3.1 card, 10G NIC), while the TR box has 2 slots free (AND can use all the extra NVMe slots that it has). Etc.

Now am I an edge case? Oh hell yes. But those uses do exist :-/ TR/x299/x99/x399 were a GODSEND for what I do.
Yeah, but wrx80 covers that as well, so no need for two high core count, high pcie, high ram platforms... but I get it, no need to spend the extra to move from trx40 if you don't need the bandwidth or slightly higher pcie it offered, just didn't make sense from an oem standpoint to have two platforms like that (well 3 if you count epyc).
 

lopoetve

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Yeah, but wrx80 covers that as well, so no need for two high core count, high pcie, high ram platforms... but I get it, no need to spend the extra to move from trx40 if you don't need the bandwidth or slightly higher pcie it offered, just didn't make sense from an oem standpoint to have two platforms like that (well 3 if you count epyc).
Yeah, but at twice the cost. I get why they’re doing it, but damn does it sting.
 

LukeTbk

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slightly higher pcie it offered
I think it was the double (128 PCIE 4.0 vs 64) if you needed them, on the ASUS WRX80 Pro and the other expensive motherboard for example.

readripper%20Pro%20Press%20Deck_7.9-page-010_575px.jpg


It is really close to the EPYC specs (of the time at least).
 

paradoxical

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I used it for XRD and Electron microscopy software, what sci workloads did you run?

RF data collection, real-time DSP on high sample rate data (I could have used another 64 cores for this), FPGA shit, electromagnetic sims, etc. One thing that sucks is while the open source tools tend to scale really well we are starting to see more software vendors locking down licensing by core instead of socket. The 3990x was kind of a cheat code for software licensing since it packed so many cores into a single socket, sadly some vendors are either catching on or their software simply doesn't scale.
 

drutman

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Funny I got into software defined radio and it crunches the FFT with no delay or issues.
The PC on the end of a our NMR had to be a Sun workstation due to volume of data and complexity of the Fourier transform stuff.
 

paradoxical

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Funny I got into software defined radio and it crunches the FFT with no delay or issues.
The PC on the end of a our NMR had to be a Sun workstation due to volume of data and complexity of the Fourier transform stuff.

A SDR with a good FPGA will absolutely destroy a 3990x for DSP. But developing and proving out the algorithms that go into the FPGAs happen on a PC, usually in matlab, before you even think about writing verilog :).

We use a pretty cheap FPGA in one of our lower end products (less than $40 our pricing), and just doing FFT plus a polyphase channelizer and some basic filtering pegged the 3990x at 100%. For the cheap FPGA it was no sweat. It is not an exaggeration to say that a $200-400 SDR has more DSP ability than a $10k Threadripper computer.

This is also why I believe specialized silicon with hardware acceleration for many different specific software tasks is clearly the future. Generalized processing resources simply cannot compete.
 

KazeoHin

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you know, if they simply unlocked these chips for overclocking, I reckon there'd be no backlash.

I imagine there are plenty of people (myself included) that would gladly pay the extra price for unlocked TRPro chips. up to 64 cores, 128 lanes, 8 memory channels, 2TB memory capacity AND unlocked to allow for overclocking? Sign me up. I'll take out a loan, I don't care. This would net you a system that has the potential simply the fastest at everything.

Its just that if you want the best of the best, there exists no such thing.
 

LukeTbk

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KazeoHin

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Would it be possible to push them much more than how much they do overclock now in turbo mode ?

That person reached 4.22ghz:
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/2664979

That one 4.341 ghz :
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/13417174

vs just 4.092 for that one
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/13506380

I imagine they auto optimise for the workload, individual chips capability/cooling quite a bit.

Its more for memory overclocking, Precision Boost Overdrive, Infinity Fabric tweaking, etc.

Trust me, dump enough voltage into something and it will move. 64 cores or not, raise the power limit to 1500 watts and put it under a full copper waterblock and several triple-rads and I can't imagine PBO would hold back from boosting higher.
 

LukeTbk

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Trust me, dump enough voltage into something and it will move. 64 cores or not, raise the power limit to 1500 watts and put it under a full copper waterblock and several triple-rads and I can't imagine PBO would hold back from boosting higher.

Like those did :
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-threadripper-3970x-overclocking-record
I was able to push AMD's 32-core Ryzen Threadripper 3970X as high as 5.5-GHz (5.4 - 5.5 on all cores)

23,323 on R20 on 32 cores, close to a 64core 3995wx (24,463) result. The: In short, the cores love the cold and the fabric hates the cold, seem an issue on those chips too.

Which I imagine you can cool a Pro has much hsa you want it will never do much more than just regular good watercooling.
 

daglesj

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Give it 6 months and we wont afford the electric let alone the hardware. o_O
 

KazeoHin

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Like those did :
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-threadripper-3970x-overclocking-record
I was able to push AMD's 32-core Ryzen Threadripper 3970X as high as 5.5-GHz (5.4 - 5.5 on all cores)

23,323 on R20 on 32 cores, close to a 64core 3995wx (24,463) result. The: In short, the cores love the cold and the fabric hates the cold, seem an issue on those chips too.

Which I imagine you can cool a Pro has much hsa you want it will never do much more than just regular good watercooling.

Exactly, give me that, only 64 cores and 8 channel memory.
 

shadragon

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I bought a 1950X TR just after release. For the stuff I do, running multiple cores is essential. Lately the original 16 cores are struggling to keep up. I've been saving for two years for a 5000 series TR HEDT upgrade, only to see the PRO option offered. I hope 5000 TR HEDT versions will come along at some point (AMD has not made an official statement saying they are not coming,) but I am losing hope as each day passes.

The logic that TR's are a small percentage and don't make as much money as server hardware makes some sense, until you recognize that a TR CPU makes a lot more profit for AMD than a regular Ryzen CPU.

Ryzen 9 5950X 16 core, 32 thread CPU is $589 on Amazon today.

(Threadripper 5000 series has no MSRP advertised, so lets look at the 3000 series.) AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3995WX 64-core, 128-thread is $7,300 on the AMD Store on Amazon.

5950X has two chiplets, TR 3995WX has four. So split the TR cost in half = $3,650 to keep things relative.

$3,650 - $589 means that AMD makes an additional $3,061 for selling one TR over one Ryzen 9 CPU. Selling one TR CPU makes more money than six Ryzen 9's.

Now, that's all well and good, but I can't buy what's not for sale. I'm not buying an EPYC processer and the Ryzen 9 is underpowered for what I need so if I do buy an HEDT CPU, I doubt it will be AMD based. I simply can't rely on them to supply what I need.

Many 'enthusiasts', including myself, kept AMD afloat in the bad days. The same people they are burning relationships with today. I use the TR at home and maybe AMD thinks that's a small loss, but I also make purchase decisions at work for server hardware. We run three datacenters and refresh hardware every four years. Given AMD shows disregard for me in one aspect of their business, why would I look to them for server hardware when low cost Intel options are everywhere? This is what the unimaginative AMD accountants didn't see when rubbing their fingers together over their spreadsheet projected profit margins. Treat your best customers like crap and they will go somewhere else. AMD has the right to not sell certain products, but I don't have to buy AMD product either.

Since the TR PRO release, a few more companies have announced multi-core monster CPU's. NVIDIA and ARM being the obvious ones. I am keeping my eye on those. If AMD comes out with 5000 HEDT versions, then all is good and the above can be ignored. However, if AMD keeps making 'penny wise, pound foolish' decisions then I'll be taking my business elsewhere.
 

LukeTbk

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Ryzen 9 5950X 16 core, 32 thread CPU is $589 on Amazon today.

(Threadripper 5000 series has no MSRP advertised, so lets look at the 3000 series.) AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3995WX 64-core, 128-thread is $7,300 on the AMD Store on Amazon.

5950X has two chiplets, TR 3995WX has four. So split the TR cost in half = $3,650 to keep things relative.

$3,650 - $589 means that AMD makes an additional $3,061 for selling one TR over one Ryzen 9 CPU. Selling one TR CPU makes more money than six Ryzen 9's.

There is 2 major issue, one is obvious you are using the TR pro cost and AMD will be making them.

Bigger one, the selling one TR CPU makes more money than six Ryzen 9's does not take into account the different unit price and how it scale/impact of changing a supply chain to make a type of CPU for 2 weeks (do you have down days during the change and what not in a world where you can sell everything you can make fast if you make the good products), plus all the R&D/certification/testing that is amortized on a smaller amount of units and how much more the oem deals for the Pro line is, if the regular threadripper does not exist.

I really but really do not see why someone would assume that people that both know more about the actual challenge/variable and know more about the CPU business is making a foolish decision, specially in terms of short term profit.
 

Dan_D

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I bought a 1950X TR just after release. For the stuff I do, running multiple cores is essential. Lately the original 16 cores are struggling to keep up. I've been saving for two years for a 5000 series TR HEDT upgrade, only to see the PRO option offered. I hope 5000 TR HEDT versions will come along at some point (AMD has not made an official statement saying they are not coming,) but I am losing hope as each day passes.

The logic that TR's are a small percentage and don't make as much money as server hardware makes some sense, until you recognize that a TR CPU makes a lot more profit for AMD than a regular Ryzen CPU.

Ryzen 9 5950X 16 core, 32 thread CPU is $589 on Amazon today.

(Threadripper 5000 series has no MSRP advertised, so lets look at the 3000 series.) AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3995WX 64-core, 128-thread is $7,300 on the AMD Store on Amazon.

5950X has two chiplets, TR 3995WX has four. So split the TR cost in half = $3,650 to keep things relative.

$3,650 - $589 means that AMD makes an additional $3,061 for selling one TR over one Ryzen 9 CPU. Selling one TR CPU makes more money than six Ryzen 9's.
That's not how CPU pricing works. There are tons of factors such as binning, materials costs, labor, etc. There are other considerations such as platform, hardware and software validation and QVL testing goes. Things are very different on the commercial side of the market. Also, I promise you that AMD is not getting paid $3,650 per CPU. That's nonsense. I'm not sure how you arrived at that figure, but it's not remotely accurate.
Now, that's all well and good, but I can't buy what's not for sale. I'm not buying an EPYC processer and the Ryzen 9 is underpowered for what I need so if I do buy an HEDT CPU, I doubt it will be AMD based. I simply can't rely on them to supply what I need.
Hey, if you are into Intel's 2 year old Core i9 10980XE CPU's that can consume upwards of 500w+ on a nearly five year old X299 platform then you do you. But I wouldn't complain about Ryzen 9 being underpowered for what you need and then suggesting that you'd have to go Intel. Intel doesn't offer anything newer than the 10980XE as an HEDT solution. Sure, you could step up to the Xeon W series, but the costs go up and you still wouldn't get the performance you would out of a competing Threadripper solution. In fact, you are probably better off with the Threadripper 3000 series over anything Intel offers in that space currently.
Many 'enthusiasts', including myself, kept AMD afloat in the bad days. The same people they are burning relationships with today.
That's on you. AMD is a business and you don't owe them anything. Similarly, AMD doesn't owe you anything. You paid market price for its product which for most of the last 25 years has been inferior to its competitors.
I use the TR at home and maybe AMD thinks that's a small loss, but I also make purchase decisions at work for server hardware. We run three datacenters and refresh hardware every four years. Given AMD shows disregard for me in one aspect of their business, why would I look to them for server hardware when low cost Intel options are everywhere?
You should be checking personal bias at the door when making corporate purchasing decisions. You should be buying the product that best meets your needs at the best price. Intel's done a lot of messed up crap and has been less than competitive at times and in certain markets. It abandoned the HEDT market that it created earlier than AMD did.
This is what the unimaginative AMD accountants didn't see when rubbing their fingers together over their spreadsheet projected profit margins. Treat your best customers like crap and they will go somewhere else. AMD has the right to not sell certain products, but I don't have to buy AMD product either.

Since the TR PRO release, a few more companies have announced multi-core monster CPU's. NVIDIA and ARM being the obvious ones. I am keeping my eye on those. If AMD comes out with 5000 HEDT versions, then all is good and the above can be ignored. However, if AMD keeps making 'penny wise, pound foolish' decisions then I'll be taking my business elsewhere.
Again, if you want to do your job well, you check that personal baggage at the door. It doesn't make any sense for AMD to manufacture and sell a product that it doesn't make enough money off of to justify its existence. You clearly do not understand its side of the business at all if you think those CPU's are making six times the revenue of a single Ryzen 9 CPU. If the margins are too thin and the volume is too low, then its just good business to give it the axe. Sure, it upsets the few people that buy that product, but businesses do not exist to cater to the desires of every individual. It's nothing personal.
 

uOpt

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At the time of this writing it is cheaper to build a 24 core system using a dual CPU system with two 12-core EPYC than a 24 core Threadripper.

And registered ECC DDR4 is cheaper (quite a bit) than unbuffered ECC.

Hard to justify Threadripper, Pro or not.
 

philb2

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At the time of this writing it is cheaper to build a 24 core system using a dual CPU system with two 12-core EPYC than a 24 core Threadripper.

And registered ECC DDR4 is cheaper (quite a bit) than unbuffered ECC.

Hard to justify Threadripper, Pro or not.
Including the (expensive ?) motherboard and two coolers?
 

lopoetve

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At the time of this writing it is cheaper to build a 24 core system using a dual CPU system with two 12-core EPYC than a 24 core Threadripper.

And registered ECC DDR4 is cheaper (quite a bit) than unbuffered ECC.

Hard to justify Threadripper, Pro or not.
Yeah, but server boards generally suck at being workstation boards. Lots of little compatibility issues and stuff that crops up; it’s not like they’re testing with consumer addons. Also generally a lot less external connectivity. Which is no fun. TR can be a lot of things - Epyc setups tend to just be servers. Or super professional only workstations, not mixed use.
 

shadragon

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Hi Dan_D,

You are in a bar. A fight kicks off and you end up having a beer thrown in your face, then while blinded get kneed in the nuts. The next day, that same guy comes in for a job you are interviewing for. Could you be dispassionate about interviewing them for the role? Personal bias is a part of who we are on and off the job. Unless you are a Vulcan, how we are treated as customers (anywhere) defines the experience with them and molds future expectations.

AMD is not supporting their own product line. If it can happen to TR HEDT, it can happen to anything they sell. That makes them unreliable and I like reliability when making purchase decisions. Few years ago, we went out and bought 24 identical printers so we could have one toner to buy in bulk. Two months later, we wanted another dozen. Nope, sorry, we don't make those any longer. Here's the replacement, with completely different toner cart and oh by the way, we only sell the carts individually. Since then, we found another printer vendor and have had few disappointments since.

AMD committed to the sTRX4 socket for Threadripper until Zen 4. And yes, they technically kept their word except they are not selling the Zen 3 CPU to fit the darned thing. Unreliable and a bit of a shell game. Want TR, you now have to get a sWRX8 mobo for TR5000 PRO. A decent one is roughly $1,000 plus the inflated cost of the PRO chip over HEDT. I'm sure there are additional smaller expenses involved as well. Those unplanned expenses comes out of my pocket and would leave a bitter taste.

There is nothing out from Intel today, but 56 core (possibly 112 core) is coming in Q3 2022. Seeing as I can't buy TR PRO until then either, it makes sense to look at alternatives. That's the joy of competition. One vendor stumbles, the competition picks up the slack. Intel took their customers for granted and got a rake in the face when reality hit. They are still stumbling back. If NVIDIA and ARM step up to the plate as well, all the better. The consumer wins.

My post described my experiences and opinion. YMMV.

Best.
 

Dan_D

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Hi Dan_D,

You are in a bar. A fight kicks off and you end up having a beer thrown in your face, then while blinded get kneed in the nuts. The next day, that same guy comes in for a job you are interviewing for. Could you be dispassionate about interviewing them for the role? Personal bias is a part of who we are on and off the job. Unless you are a Vulcan, how we are treated as customers (anywhere) defines the experience with them and molds future expectations.
I'm sorry but your analogy doesn't fit. A company discontinuing a product that doesn't sell in large quantities and has a niche market appeal at best isn't the same as getting kicked in the nuts by some random dude in a bar. To be clear, I don't like AMD or Intel abandoning the HEDT market space. However, I understand why they have. The core count and clock speed race in the mainstream segment has cannibalized the sales of the HEDT market. Making two platforms and supporting them with future product releases doesn't make much sense. There are still Epyc and Xeon based workstations, but HEDT always filled this void in between traditional high end workstations and high end desktop machines. It's a niche within a niche and one that required deep pockets to boot.
AMD is not supporting their own product line. If it can happen to TR HEDT, it can happen to anything they sell. That makes them unreliable and I like reliability when making purchase decisions. Few years ago, we went out and bought 24 identical printers so we could have one toner to buy in bulk. Two months later, we wanted another dozen. Nope, sorry, we don't make those any longer. Here's the replacement, with completely different toner cart and oh by the way, we only sell the carts individually. Since then, we found another printer vendor and have had few disappointments since.
No, AMD has ceased further releases of that product. It supports the current product and platform just fine. There simply won't be any newer products for you to upgrade too. As for the reasoning behind that, we'll never know the ins and outs of why AMD did what it did but it always comes down to money. IE, AMD isn't making enough on Threadripper CPU's outside of OEM sales so its discontinued future product releases. For your own personal use, that's unfortunate. However, your printer analogy may not track either depending on what you were buying. However, judging by your posts it seems to me like you are buying/building non-OEM systems and perhaps, bought consumer grade printers for professional work and it bit you in the ass. Regardless, its not the same thing.

You bought a CPU or CPU's designed for a specific CPU socket. AMD has had poor socket longevity on its HEDT product and you are surprised there is nothing to upgrade to? You wouldn't have done any better with Intel on that front. X299 is dead too and no successor is in sight. You are getting emotional and feeling entitled about something that only effects the tiniest percentage of customers. Again, AMD is a business and it doesn't owe you anything. It doesn't make AMD unreliable. If you are judging them by that metric than Intel fares just as badly or worse. Right now, you don't have any other real options aside from going with Apple's Mac Pro. And if you think AMD and Intel treat you badly, Apple ties you up, beats you and makes you thank them for it while charging you a crap ton of money.
AMD committed to the sTRX4 socket for Threadripper until Zen 4.
Did they? AMD never said anything about sTRX4 and Zen4. Ever. At least not officially.
And yes, they technically kept their word except they are not selling the Zen 3 CPU to fit the darned thing. Unreliable and a bit of a shell game. Want TR, you now have to get a sWRX8 mobo for TR5000 PRO. A decent one is roughly $1,000 plus the inflated cost of the PRO chip over HEDT. I'm sure there are additional smaller expenses involved as well. Those unplanned expenses comes out of my pocket and would leave a bitter taste.
You don't like it but again, OEM sales far outstrip DIY for workstation and HEDT type builds. It sucks but it is what it is. It's not a shell game. AMD simply decided to discontinue a product. That always rubs someone the wrong way but the simple fact is AMD didn't sell enough of those CPU's to the DIY market to justify the product's existence. There is motherboard R&D, QVL testing, CPU binning etc. (Not to mention, pulling silicon from Epyc production which is more lucrative.)

I'll let you in on a secret. Motherboard makers may not have even WANTED Zen4 Threadripper. They didn't want it when the 1000 series came out. I had confirmed this directly when the product launched with MSI. With Threadripper costs well over $1,000 for CPU's, it wasn't selling in quantities. That means motherboard makers weren't selling a lot of boards. You have all of the major motherboard manufacturers competing with their own designs for the same sub-1% share of the market. These companies don't make money off mITX and mATX solutions in the DIY market. It only hopes to break even and ATX motherboards outsell them more than a dozen to one. I can guarantee you that MSI, ASUS, GIGABYTE, EVGA, and even ASRock aren't making money on sTRX4 motherboards. They could flat out be responsible for Zen4 based TR dying off in that market.
There is nothing out from Intel today, but 56 core (possibly 112 core) is coming in Q3 2022. Seeing as I can't buy TR PRO until then either, it makes sense to look at alternatives. That's the joy of competition. One vendor stumbles, the competition picks up the slack. Intel took their customers for granted and got a rake in the face when reality hit. They are still stumbling back. If NVIDIA and ARM step up to the plate as well, all the better. The consumer wins.

My post described my experiences and opinion. YMMV.

Best.
This part of your post I can absolutely agree with.
 

Spirit_Retro

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My post described my experiences and opinion. YMMV.

Best.

Who's experience and opinion would it be other than yours?

Mahatma Gandhi? Pauly Shore? Arch Duke Ferdinand?

I think you stole your opinion from somewhere else. Misappropriation of opinion is punishable by death. Consider it a kind of experience :p
 

tangoseal

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High end desktop? Id rather not run hedt anymore. Small blazung fast lower energy normal cpu is far better over all. Ive owned all kinds of hedt. Totally obsolete now.
 

The_Heretic

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I bought a 3960 system from Puget systems a couple of years back for the DC stuff. Looks like it will be what it already is until something in it dies or it ages out. (I've said this before . . .) But it will probably be the last of the more expensive CPUs I purchase.
 

uOpt

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High end desktop? Id rather not run hedt anymore. Small blazung fast lower energy normal cpu is far better over all. Ive owned all kinds of hedt. Totally obsolete now.

Not if you need more PCIe lanes.
 

lopoetve

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Not if you need more PCIe lanes.
Or craploads of RAM. Or craploads of storage. Or... HEDT being the bridge to server-level systems gives you flexibility. I build consumer systems - but I also build boxes that bridge that gap, and that's what HEDT is designed for. Going all the way to Xeon or Xeon-W systems gets EXPENSIVE fast. Even compared to HEDT!
 

sram

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Or craploads of RAM. Or craploads of storage. Or... HEDT being the bridge to server-level systems gives you flexibility. I build consumer systems - but I also build boxes that bridge that gap, and that's what HEDT is designed for. Going all the way to Xeon or Xeon-W systems gets EXPENSIVE fast. Even compared to HEDT!
I agree. I wanted that middleground .
 

tangoseal

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Not if you need more PCIe lanes.
For what?

When HEDT is no more and it appears that is where it is going, there wont be anything short of a server cpu that is going to give lanes, so its time to move on. I cant make a CPU and I have to go with what is available.
 

Wade88

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Some yes - it feeds directly into both income and community/charity work I do.

The issue with enterprise gear is the noise - most aren't built to be "pleasant" around in a home office or the like, which is where both of the main workstations live - and I like them to be as powerful as possible, so noise is a concern.

I also fund a good portion of these myself (some donations from big OEMs too), so paying for TR Pro makes me hurt a little inside.

edit: They also serve dual purposes. Main workstation is also capable of being a pretty-darned-good gaming system, the 3950X doubles as a VR system (run a script, it dumps the workstation/server workloads off to something else and reboots to windows, then goes back when done), etc. Not sure how well a P620 or the like would do with a consumer GPU in it... since we're not using Quadro features, we don't buy Quadros (except in the VDI environment, which has GRID cards).
I get around this with a room in my house that is insulated as much as it can be in the walls and the floor (it's upstairs for easy homeruns via the attics). It has it's own air conditioning and the most 20a circuits I've ever seen in a residential room. This way all the infernal 40mm fans can scream all they want and not bother anyone, not even my German Shepherds. Displayport cables and USB extensions go through portals in the walls to desks in rooms abutting that one.

Sometimes my dogs nap in the hall in front of that room because it's the least likely spot to have to move from due to human traffic upstairs.
 
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uOpt

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For what?

When HEDT is no more and it appears that is where it is going, there wont be anything short of a server cpu that is going to give lanes, so its time to move on. I cant make a CPU and I have to go with what is available.

Oh come on. On a regular desktop you cannot even make a raid10 out of 4 NVMe SSDs without going through the southbridge.

And then there is 10+Gb ethernet and SAS controllers.
 

cpufrost

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404
Oh come on. On a regular desktop you cannot even make a raid10 out of 4 NVMe SSDs without going through the southbridge.

And then there is 10+Gb ethernet and SAS controllers.
40 and 100Gbit network too! ;-)
 

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
32,729
I get around this with a room in my house that is insulated as much as it can be in the walls and the floor (it's upstairs for easy homeruns via the attics). It has it's own air conditioning and the most 20a circuits I've ever seen in a residential room. This way all the infernal 40mm fans can scream all they want and not bother anyone, not even my German Shepherds. Displayport cables and USB extensions go through portals in the walls to desks in rooms abutting that one.

Sometimes my dogs nap in the hall in front of that room because it's the least likely spot to have to move from due to human traffic upstairs.
Most of our sites have this - oddly enough, mine is the one place that this doesn't work super well for it, as most of the workloads generated/done require hands-on time directly (not something you can sanely or affordably offload to GRID cards, for instance). Thus, dual-purpose workstations instead of servers and terminals.

edit: Those sites are server/client, rather than workstation :p

As to your point - curious how many circuits you have, as our record is (I think, I'd have to check) 4x 30A 220V for Site Bravo. (Charlie is a single 20A 220, Alpha is dual 20A 220, Delta is mixed 120v on 4 circuits, and Epsilon is still an unknown as he's figuring out how much space he has).
 

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
32,729
For what?

When HEDT is no more and it appears that is where it is going, there wont be anything short of a server cpu that is going to give lanes, so its time to move on. I cant make a CPU and I have to go with what is available.
We either have to move up to SP server chips or something like the Xeon-W / Threadripper Pro. :(
 

Wade88

Gawd
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
669
Most of our sites have this - oddly enough, mine is the one place that this doesn't work super well for it, as most of the workloads generated/done require hands-on time directly (not something you can sanely or affordably offload to GRID cards, for instance). Thus, dual-purpose workstations instead of servers and terminals.

edit: Those sites are server/client, rather than workstation :p

As to your point - curious how many circuits you have, as our record is (I think, I'd have to check) 4x 30A 220V for Site Bravo. (Charlie is a single 20A 220, Alpha is dual 20A 220, Delta is mixed 120v on 4 circuits, and Epsilon is still an unknown as he's figuring out how much space he has).
Before I bought this house it was a medical room for the previous owner's father. It has a single 220v 20a and 8 110 20a on 12 receptacles in a 106 ft^2 room. Today two of those circuits are rerouted to run my ham shack but that still leaves 6. One runs the peaker air conditioner and the rest run UPS' that run a workstation and a couple of gaming rigs, plus the server and the plex box.(cheap af server refarmed from pulls except the disks). The 220 server used to live in my garage but more dusty things happen in there than they used to so it moved a couple of years ago.
 
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philb2

Gawd
Joined
May 26, 2021
Messages
853
Or craploads of RAM. Or craploads of storage. Or... HEDT being the bridge to server-level systems gives you flexibility. I build consumer systems - but I also build boxes that bridge that gap, and that's what HEDT is designed for. Going all the way to Xeon or Xeon-W systems gets EXPENSIVE fast. Even compared to HEDT!
For your own use? Or for others? What are the use cases?

Just for curiousity. Me, as long as it runs Photoshop fast enough, I'm good. Besides, the money I'm not spending on an HEDT can probaly be used to uprade my digital camera body. And I always "need" another lens. (y)
 

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
32,729
For your own use? Or for others? What are the use cases?

Just for curiousity. Me, as long as it runs Photoshop fast enough, I'm good. Besides, the money I'm not spending on an HEDT can probaly be used to uprade my digital camera body. And I always "need" another lens. (y)
Mixture of light video editing and a crap load of virtual machines. Doing some NVMeOF work, various scripting tasks, etc- before rolling them to various production or lab environments. Mostly personal, some charity, some work related. It’s a whole mix to be honest.

The nice part is that HEDT systems make great servers and the like when done - my x99 box is a massive 14T all flash system, with two sas cards, a dual port 10G card, and 16 drives (plus expansion for more - and two free NVMe slots). X399 is now our central controller for Site Delta, and has 25T of mixed storage (doubles as a plex server!). Etc.

Expansion opens options. Consumer systems are really limited to compute only- especially since Ryzen doesn’t have an integrated GPU, so you have to burn a slot on a basic GT 710. And it gets finicky above 64G of ram, while Threadripper doesn’t blink at 128G, and only gets picky at 256.

I’m an edge case- but there are others that aren’t far off. And I hope we don’t get totally ignored. I’ve got a 3950x/x570 system too- while it’s faster than the x399 from a compute perspective, the options for how to use it are much more limited than the 1950x.
 

Wade88

Gawd
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
669
Mixture of light video editing and a crap load of virtual machines. Doing some NVMeOF work, various scripting tasks, etc- before rolling them to various production or lab environments. Mostly personal, some charity, some work related. It’s a whole mix to be honest.

The nice part is that HEDT systems make great servers and the like when done - my x99 box is a massive 14T all flash system, with two sas cards, a dual port 10G card, and 16 drives (plus expansion for more - and two free NVMe slots). X399 is now our central controller for Site Delta, and has 25T of mixed storage (doubles as a plex server!). Etc.

Expansion opens options. Consumer systems are really limited to compute only- especially since Ryzen doesn’t have an integrated GPU, so you have to burn a slot on a basic GT 710. And it gets finicky above 64G of ram, while Threadripper doesn’t blink at 128G, and only gets picky at 256.

I’m an edge case- but there are others that aren’t far off. And I hope we don’t get totally ignored. I’ve got a 3950x/x570 system too- while it’s faster than the x399 from a compute perspective, the options for how to use it are much more limited than the 1950x.
My plex box is a x99 ;) It runs some game servers and stuff too.
 

KazeoHin

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
8,563
Mt argument for HEDT is this:

The silicon exists, and I want it and I want to overclock it. I want the best.

Best.

Not "best for..."

The best.

I want 64 unlocked ryzen cores, 8 channel memory and 128 PCIE lanes.

Why? Who cares. Charge a ton for it. I'll save up. I'm not rich but I spend more on my PC than my car. I want to be able to run games at 144+FPS Max settings and then hop in blender and have no tiny gpu memory limit.

Right now we have CPUs that can do one or the other, but nothing stopping AMD making one that can do both. They just don't. Call it "Epyc Threadripper" I don't care. Just unlock it and sell it.
 
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