Dell Alienware AW3423DW 34″ QD-OLED 175Hz (3440 x 1440)

ShePearl said:
Odellus is on point though while you're derailing the thread. Nothing constructive to add? Please G T F O.
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Cute, are you an alt account that also hardly posts? He's the one who responded when I hadn't even mentioned him. He went berserk over it. Pm me if you want to talk instead of further derailing the thread yourself.

He is completely off point and slinging silly childish insults. I derailed nothing. His statements also contradict each other and are wrong. Total latency matters and input lag is just one part of that.
 
Droban said:
Post in thread 'Dell Alienware AW3423DW 34″ QD-OLED 175Hz (3440 x 1440)'
https://hardforum.com/threads/dell-...led-175hz-3440-x-1440.2016696/post-1045323540
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Better Cleartype Tuner simply gives a different way to adjust the options offered for Cleartype. It can be easier to work with than the more perceptual regular Cleartype tuner. But it's not going to allow for anything except these options, none of which are perfect for OLEDs:
  • RGB font smoothing. Best option with contrast adjustment which can help diminish the color fringing from odd pixel structure of QD or WRGB OLED pixel arrangements.
  • BGR. Not applicable to OLEDs.
  • Grayscale. In theory this would be best for OLEDs as colored fringing goes away, but there is something iffy about how Windows implements this. It will make some app's fonts look odd, some GDI apps might even show no font smoothing. Overall it tends to look less sharp than adjusted contrast RGB.
  • Off. Again in theory this would be great, but with Windows' strict adherence to pixel grid, this ends up looking just raw and jagged. MacOS handles this so much better and OLEDs look perfectly fine on that operating system. Using MacType on Windows can help but it doesn't work everywhere.
In my experience with LG OLEDs, DPI scaling + Cleartype RGB with contrast adjustment works best. But on the AW DPI scaling is not really a good option because the amount of desktop space at 100% scaling is already far less than it is on a 100% scaled 4K screen. I use 125% scaling on my 48" LG CX at 1m viewing distance and that helps mitigate the text rendering issues.
 
I use my oled mainly for gaming. Games can have a lot of in-game text, (especially in games with RPG elements and stat sheets, dialogs, etc) - but games are in a 3D engine and have actual anti-aliasing available where the desktop is 2d mode and doesn't. The only AA the desktop has is text sub-sampling.

I use a 43" samsung nu6900 4k VA (~ 6100:1) TV on each side of my oled for desktop/apps. They are both BGR but in portrait mode that's

BBBB
GGGG
RRRR

or

RRRR
GGGG
BBBBB

depending which way they are flipped. I have zero issues with text on them when sitting a suitable distance with them in PC input mode (RGB / 444) at 100% scaling but I do use text subsampling on them and I'm sitting a fair distance away (from all 3 screens as I sit more in relation to the 48" OLED's PPD). If I ever DC them or do a fw update it reverts back out of PC/444 mode though and text looks tattered and horrible until switch them back.

When it comes to larger 120hz or better VRR/g-sync/free-sync monitors which up til now most OLED gaming screens have been since they have mostly been TV's , I suspect a lot of people sit at lower than 60 PPD which will increase the overall aggressiveness of the pixel structure to your eyes making pixels more obvious. Then they will struggle more in attempts to "fix" the text but it will never look as good as sitting a more appropriate distance away, which essentially increases the ppi to your eyeballs and brain. A good rule of thumb for viewing angle (of 16:9 screens) is sitting approaching the diagonal screen measurement's distance away. On a 4k screen that ends up being around 80PPD. You can get a decent result at 60ppd+ with some viewing angle compromises, more desperate tweaking of sub-sampling and alternative sub-sampling methods, and a more aggressive AA settings in games though but it still won't look quite as good.
 
kasakka said:
This kind of stuff is another reason why the Dell is not for me. I hate fan noise and have put in a lot of work to make my desktop computer silent at idle. I don't mind some noise at load because you need to cool things somehow but usually then I have speakers blaring or headphones on so it all gets drowned by that.
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Agreed. You can thank that to the gsync module. Hence why I'm waiting for the Samsung model variant which will most likely be VRR supported without gsync hardware. Might even wait for 2nd gen panels, as I prefer 16:9 non curved.
 
kasakka said:
This kind of stuff is another reason why the Dell is not for me. I hate fan noise and have put in a lot of work to make my desktop computer silent at idle. I don't mind some noise at load because you need to cool things somehow but usually then I have speakers blaring or headphones on so it all gets drowned by that.
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It doesn't make noise 99.99% of the time, and when it does it's extremely quiet.
 
Odellus said:
It doesn't make noise 99.99% of the time, and when it does it's extremely quiet.
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"Usually".

My main issue with the active cooling in gsync monitors is about that fan 3 or 4 or 7 years down the road. You know... when there has been dust accumulating over the years. And the monitor is no longer under warranty. Or in production.

Fan fails in my pc, i can get at it and replace it with an easily available off the shelf replacement. Monitor? Not so much.
 
Surly said:
"Usually".

My main issue with the active cooling in gsync monitors is about that fan 3 or 4 or 7 years down the road. You know... when there has been dust accumulating over the years. And the monitor is no longer under warranty. Or in production.

Fan fails in my pc, i can get at it and replace it with an easily available off the shelf replacement. Monitor? Not so much.
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It's just a fan. I don't know about the smaller one, but there's a dude three replies above that replaced the larger one fairly easily.
 
"Quiet", "inaudible"... those are subjective terms. Some of us will hear the fan and be bothered by it. My PC case is actually in a separate room (long-ish cable run) vs the one where I am sitting behind the monitor, so there is zero source of noise coming from inside that room (other than the speakers playing something and the human(s) sitting in it). Sure, it's an extreme case, but you get my point.

For me in that setup, even the fan on an Oculus Quest 2 can be somewhat annoyingly audible if I'm not using headphones or IEMs (and no, it's not a defective unit).
 
kalston said:
"Quiet", "inaudible"... those are subjective terms. Some of us will hear the fan and be bothered by it. My PC case is actually in a separate room (long-ish cable run) vs the one where I am sitting behind the monitor, so there is zero source of noise coming from inside that room (other than the speakers playing something and the human(s) sitting in it). Sure, it's an extreme case, but you get my point.

For me in that setup, even the fan on an Oculus Quest 2 can be somewhat annoyingly audible if I'm not using headphones or IEMs (and no, it's not a defective unit).
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Extremely quiet as in it's quieter than my Noctua case/rad/CPU heatsink fans all running at <800 rpm about 5 feet away from me obscured by the side of my desk, and it's a pleasant wooshing of air.
 
I wonder if it has any airflow channels from the oled array and/or a passive heatsink where that fan can draw from. The panasonic OLEDs in the UK had a passive heatsink and the G2's do too now I think. That allows for higher energy states/brightness with lower risk of burn-in. The way the QD-OLED tech produces colors also takes less energy than WOLED per color volume already too. Samsung is confident enough, along with their reserved brightness buffer for wear-evening routines, that they provide a burn in warranty on their QD-OLEDs, and LG has burn-in warranty on their heatsink models (along with reserved brightness wear evening) as well.

https://techunwrapped.com/brightnes...lg-oled-g2-television-works-to-avoid-burning/

https://california18.com/burn-in-effects-on-samsungs-qd-oleds/4025552022/

If a logo or a bright frame stays in the picture for a longer period of time, this puts a strain on the organic layer, as with WOLED. The QD-OLED also wears out, but there is no color cast, only a slightly lower brightness. This partially declining light intensity can be compensated for relatively easily by applying more current to the affected areas. In the OLEDs, it is constantly recorded for each pixel how long and how brightly it shines and then adjusted accordingly with an algorithm – those who had to shine particularly brightly for a particularly long time are supplied with more power.

Such calculations already existed in the days of plasma displays, where the phosphor layer also wore out due to the constant bombardment. LG also uses such algorithms in its WOLEDs, but can only eliminate the decreasing brightness, not any color casts.
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..
The wear and tear of the organic layer affects the lifetime of the displays in both WOLEDs and QD-OLEDs. However, the service life, at least for WOLEDs, is now significantly longer than in the early days of large OLED TVs. Most TV manufacturers today offer a multi-year guarantee for their devices without worrying.

They are also able to do this because they do not operate the displays at the limit, so that any wear and tear on the organic layer can be easily compensated for with more power. The so-called cleaning measures also contribute to a longer service life.
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Apparently the Samsung S95B QD-OLED is capable of some serious brightness levels:

1650400656113.png


I wonder if the 34 inch really just can't that bright or if Dell is being somewhat conservative with it since it's a monitor and not a TV after all. Really interested to see what brightness levels are on Samsung's version of the 34 inch.
 
MistaSparkul said:
Apparently the Samsung S95B QD-OLED is capable of some serious brightness levels
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Until it runs out of thermal capacity and throttles down to 600 nits, yes. We don't have a test telilng us how long that takes yet, but Vincent at HDTVTest observed it happening during subsequent test runs so it seems very likely it is something that will impact viewing over the duration of a movie or something like that.

The AW3423DW is a small monitor with far less mass than a big TV so it's not going to have as much thermal capacity, same reason the 42" LG OLED doesn't get as bright as the bigger models.

Throttling is not just for your CPUs and GPUs anymore!!
 
Sancus said:
Until it runs out of thermal capacity and throttles down to 600 nits, yes. We don't have a test telilng us how long that takes yet, but Vincent at HDTVTest observed it happening during subsequent test runs so it seems very likely it is something that will impact viewing over the duration of a movie or something like that.

The AW3423DW is a small monitor with far less mass than a big TV so it's not going to have as much thermal capacity, same reason the 42" LG OLED doesn't get as bright as the bigger models.

Throttling is not just for your CPUs and GPUs anymore!!
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Isn't Vincent's case just a torture test though and not actual real world viewing? If it throttles to 600 nits in torture tests but manages to sustain those high brightness levels otherwise then I personally wouldn't care. Whether or not it can do it remains to be seen though.
 
MistaSparkul said:
Isn't Vincent's case just a torture test though and not actual real world viewing? If it throttles to 600 nits in torture tests but manages to sustain those high brightness levels otherwise then I personally wouldn't care. Whether or not it can do it remains to be seen though.
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Dunno, he doesn't say how long a measurement run takes. I wouldn't say it's a torture test. A.measurement run is just measuring max brightness windows. So it will depend on the average brightness of your content. We'll find out in the full review probably.

But my point is more that if even the big TVs are throttling, this monitor would have less capacity to absorb heat. Then on top of that they want to prevent burn in entirely for at least 3 years on a product with a much higher risk profile.

It's possible the Samsung version of this will have less ABL but I doubt it matches the TVs.
 
Sancus said:
Dunno, he doesn't say how long a measurement run takes. I wouldn't say it's a torture test. A.measurement run is just measuring max brightness windows. So it will depend on the average brightness of your content. We'll find out in the full review probably.

But my point is more that if even the big TVs are throttling, this monitor would have less capacity to absorb heat. Then on top of that they want to prevent burn in entirely for at least 3 years on a product with a much higher risk profile.

It's possible the Samsung version of this will have less ABL but I doubt it matches the TVs.
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That makes sense. I'm still pretty excited for QD-OLED though even though I won't be jumping on it this year due to there being no favorable size for me but I can't wait to see more sizes in the future + possibly heatsinks being used to help with the sustained brightness.
 
SoCali said:
These QD-OLED TV's side by side with a WOLED make the WOLED look pretty poor. I'm excited for what the future holds:

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I don't know if this would make any difference but I feel like he should've and dialed in the camera for each TV individually and film them separately then overlay the two videos together rather than trying to capture both TV's at the same time so that way we can get a more accurate comparison.
 
Keep in mind, that Samsung's monitor division... have not exactly nailed it as much as thier Television division. While the G7's have been awesome sauce, the G9's have been abit of a nightmare. So while I'm excited to see what they can do with the same panel tech from Samsung Display... I have more faith in Dell's monitor division than Samsung's.
 
Well, that's 71% vs 90% REC2020 color gamut. Of course the difference is like a TN vs an OLED.
 
MistaSparkul said:
Apparently the Samsung S95B QD-OLED is capable of some serious brightness levels:

View attachment 465384

I wonder if the 34 inch really just can't that bright or if Dell is being somewhat conservative with it since it's a monitor and not a TV after all. Really interested to see what brightness levels are on Samsung's version of the 34 inch.
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You talking about the 65 or the 55'' ? I know Vince is messing the 55 inch one, it might not have the same brightness as the 65. The other guys classy and some of the other guys were messing with the 65''.
It's a pain because I wanted to know more about the 55' and only vince to my knowledge is playing with that size. The other question will be is the 65" gonna be worth spending extra on for the brightness thermal capacity or is the 55" good enough.
 
ellover009 said:
The other question will be is the 65" gonna be worth spending extra on for the brightness thermal capacity or is the 55" good enough.
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I have no idea why you'd ever even consider buying a smaller TV than you can otherwise fit. Size is always better than relatively small image quality differences because it's way more immersive. I only have ~8' viewing distance and I want to go up to ~80" for my next TV because that's the only way you'll get theatre-like immersiveness at home.

In fact this is a main reason I won't buy a QD-OLED TV this year, they just don't go big enough!
 
Sancus said:
I have no idea why you'd ever even consider buying a smaller TV than you can otherwise fit. Size is always better than relatively small image quality differences because it's way more immersive. I only have ~8' viewing distance and I want to go up to ~80" for my next TV because that's the only way you'll get theatre-like immersiveness at home.

In fact this is a main reason I won't buy a QD-OLED TV this year, they just don't go big enough!
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I already have a TV, I squeezed in the biggest that I could at the time that was within my means.

I want to use it as a computer screen and space becomes a factor because it adds more complexity to viewing distance. For the computer I have a finite space, I was looking at the alienware, the c2 42, and the S95B, even discounted C1's. I think 55" would be pushing it, don't wanna go beyond that, I also didn't want to bother with the 55" if it was a bust compared to the 65". I didn't wanna hop on to the Alienware without seeing how the Samsung performed.

Best Buy in my area is supposed to have a display model, tempted to go check it out this week time permitting.

Odd thing is that when I got my first large TV, 70" Sharp, man that thing felt immerse, Took a while to get used to it. It felt like it took over the room, and it shrank over the years in my eyes.
 
ellover009 said:
Odd thing is that when I got my first large TV, 70" Sharp, man that thing felt immerse, Took a while to get used to it. It felt like it took over the room, and it shrank over the years in my eyes.
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That happened to me too with an 84" projector over a decade ago.... I'm now considering going 83" oled or 120"ish projection now that I have the room in my new place (I'm on a 42" cheap TV right now :() . I feel like the projector might be too big a screen, but then I worry 83" will feel small again eventually...
 
ellover009 said:
You talking about the 65 or the 55'' ? I know Vince is messing the 55 inch one, it might not have the same brightness as the 65. The other guys classy and some of the other guys were messing with the 65''.
It's a pain because I wanted to know more about the 55' and only vince to my knowledge is playing with that size. The other question will be is the 65" gonna be worth spending extra on for the brightness thermal capacity or is the 55" good enough.
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Those numbers were from classy so I guess it's the 65". I don't think the 55" would be that far behind though...would it? lol
 
MistaSparkul said:
Those numbers were from classy so I guess it's the 65". I don't think the 55" would be that far behind though...would it? lol
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Before it came out I remember the Samsung website or bestbuy somewhere listed the nits. There was a 500 nits peak difference between the 55" and the 65". I am searching the web and I can't find it anymore after launch as if that spec was scrubbed out.
 
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ellover009 said:
Before it came out I remember the Samsung website or bestbuy somewhere listed the nits. There was a 500 nits peak difference between the 55" and the 65". I am searching the web and I can't find it anymore after launch as if that spec was scrubbed out.
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Classy has given more info on the brightness.
 

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TrunksZero said:
Keep in mind, that Samsung's monitor division... have not exactly nailed it as much as thier Television division. While the G7's have been awesome sauce, the G9's have been abit of a nightmare. So while I'm excited to see what they can do with the same panel tech from Samsung Display... I have more faith in Dell's monitor division than Samsung's.
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Honestly even Samsung's TV division is terrible, for the software side. Samsung's Tizen OS is known to be a pile of garbage. I was so unhappy with the crashing apps and slow performance of the KS-8000 I had that eventually I just started using a Chromecast Ultra with it. LG WebOS by comparison has been much, much better even if it is not perfect or anything. My CRG9 has some issues but its OSD generally works and is relatively easy to use. It's all the problems they have with the G7 and G9 series for both panels and their control software that sucks.

None of the companies seem to be able to get talent that is good at designing and programming UIs and OSDs for displays. I also get that it's not anyone's dream job either. LG has actually excelled at fixing clear issues with their products' performance which is why the LG OLEDs are in a pretty good place where I have few complaints about the two TVs I have.
 
ellover009 said:
I already have a TV, I squeezed in the biggest that I could at the time that was within my means.

I want to use it as a computer screen and space becomes a factor because it adds more complexity to viewing distance. For the computer I have a finite space, I was looking at the alienware, the c2 42, and the S95B, even discounted C1's. I think 55" would be pushing it, don't wanna go beyond that, I also didn't want to bother with the 55" if it was a bust compared to the 65". I didn't wanna hop on to the Alienware without seeing how the Samsung performed.

Best Buy in my area is supposed to have a display model, tempted to go check it out this week time permitting.

Odd thing is that when I got my first large TV, 70" Sharp, man that thing felt immerse, Took a while to get used to it. It felt like it took over the room, and it shrank over the years in my eyes.
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GoldenTiger said:
That happened to me too with an 84" projector over a decade ago.... I'm now considering going 83" oled or 120"ish projection now that I have the room in my new place (I'm on a 42" cheap TV right now :() . I feel like the projector might be too big a screen, but then I worry 83" will feel small again eventually...
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It's all about PPD. Once you go too big too close at a pc desk/command center or you go too big of a screen in a modest sized living room distance wise, you are out of the somewhat optimal (for 4k, all things considered) pixel density range. As a rule of thumb, when nearing the diagonal measurement of a 16:9 , 4k screen as your viewing distance you are at about 80 PPD and a 45 - 50 deg viewing angle.

60PPD gets a good result in gaming since you can apply strong anti aliasing in it's 3D mode. You can tweak text subsampling on the 2D desktop which is like AA for text fringing but depending on the subpixel layout you might be making some compromises at 60PPD let alone less PDD. The desktop and movie watching doesn't really have AA but there is AI upscaling for lower rez content on things like the nvidia shield 2019.

8k screens halve the distance PPD wise compared to 4k but the viewing angle is still a consideration, especially for gaming that has huds, notifications, pointers, chat etc. The higher the PPD the better theoretically but if you want 1:1 per pixel native for gaming at relatively high fps you'd have to stick with 4k or less for now. 8k screens and content (along with AI upconverted 4k content) would be beneficial if you exceed the ranges in the quote below.

For 8k PPD, just double the 4k one at the same distances. I'd try to keep somewhere around this range viewing angle wise personally so I wouldn't be sitting closer just because I have the 8k PPD increase. You probably don't start getting really fine pixels on highly contrasted edges in 2D content without AA until around 150PPD actually. You'd get 120PPD at 8k versions of the 60PPD 4k distances which is nearing that, or 160PDD at the 8k versions of the 80PPD 4k distances.

60PPD 64 degree viewing angle
=======================

..technically a bit too close of a viewing angle vs periphery of screen being pushed out too far, but the pixel granularity will at least be low enough that subsampling and AA can compensate for the most part - at a performance hit)

98" 4k screen at ~ 68.5" away has the same PPD and viewing angle and looks the same as:

80" 4k screen at ~ 56" away

77" 4k screen at ~ 54" away (60PPD, 64deg viewing angle)

65" 4k screen at ~ 45" away

55" 4k screen at ~ 38.5" away

48" 4k screen at ~ 33.5" away

42" 4k screen at ~ 29" away

27" 4k screen at ~ 19" away

---------------------------------------------------------

80 PPD 48 deg viewing angle (optimal viewing angle is typically 45 - 55 deg)
========================================================

..reduced pixel granularity so can probably get away with a little more more moderate AA and text (with tweaked subsampling) will look a little better.
..until we get to something like 150PPD+ the pixels won't appear fine enough that we won't really have to rely on AA and subsampling anymore. However the gpu demand would counteract that resolution gain (8k+) anyway, losing motion clarity and motion definition aesthetics so probably better off using an optimal PPD on a 4k screen along with AA and text subsampling for the following years (though using an 8k screen on the side for desktop/apps would be good).

98" 4k screen at ~ 96" away has the same PPD and viewing angle and looks the same as:

80" 4k screen at ~ 78" away

77" 4k screen at ~ 75.5" away (80PPD, 48deg viewing angle)

65" 4k screen at ~ 64" away

55" 4k screen at ~ 54" away

48" 4k screen at ~ 47" away

42" 4k screen at ~ 41" away

27" 4k screen at ~ 26.5" away

-------------------------------------------------------------

You can see the 80PPD point (on a 4k screen) is where the screen diagonal measurement and the viewing distance make what is more or less an equilateral triangle or pyramid cone with your viewing angle. The view distance approaching the screen's diagonal is the neighborhood of the optimal viewing angle for anything with HUDs, notifications, pointers, text windows, etc. in my opinion, regardless of the PPD.

Coincidentally, a 48" 4k screen at ~ 47" - 48" away is a 48 degree viewing angle. 48diag ~ "48" view - 48deg
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Best buy failed me, they did not have the S95B on display, even thou the website said there would be a display. Guys there said they haven't set up the new displays, and that it might be a few days before its done. He was talking about next month.
 
Mine was estimated to ship on April 29 back when I ordered it on March 10. Still showing that date. I'm getting nervous.
 
Played some Horizon Zero Dawn earlier for the first time on this and have to say it's way more impressive than it was on LCD IPS, and it looked great back then! The benchmark scores are higher now too but not sure if that's related to the QD-OLED being at 144Hz vs the old screen's 60Hz and lack of gsync etc.

I've switched to Trueblack400 for HDR gaming and media now too as find it perfectly good and gradations/transitions are more accurate vs Peak 1000.

NGX4EPV.jpg


Just like God of War, the responsiveness on screen movement and mouse input just feels instant now, and the motion smoothness is just supreme. god knows how anyone can go back to LCD gaming after this lol.
 
Astral Abyss said:
Mine was estimated to ship on April 29 back when I ordered it on March 10. Still showing that date. I'm getting nervous.
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Normally the date won't change unless it gets allocation to ship or it passes by the expected ship date and queries what ever the new date shows.

I assume you are in The US? I ordered on the 9th and have the same ship date as you. As it appears no new orders have gone out for the US so far and new orders are a consistent 8+ weeks out it doesn't look like there has been much improvement from a supply chain perspective over the last 7 weeks.

Hopefully they start shipping next week but I am fully expecting majority of us in the US are going to get another delay notification. :(
 
Spliffis said:
Normally the date won't change unless it gets allocation to ship or it passes by the expected ship date and queries what ever the new date shows.

I assume you are in The US? I ordered on the 9th and have the same ship date as you. As it appears no new orders have gone out for the US so far and new orders are a consistent 8+ weeks out it doesn't look like there has been much improvement from a supply chain perspective over the last 7 weeks.

Hopefully they start shipping next week but I am fully expecting majority of us in the US are going to get another delay notification. :(
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Ya, supply chain issues just continue to be a big thing in tech. We have computers delayed at work all the time for months. It isn't everything, you'll have one model that you can get shipped next day, and another that has a big delay on it, and then when you order it the date gets blown and it is delayed further. The supply snarls are just not something that is going to let up any time soon it seems.
 
undertaker2k8 said:
Lol 34 pages + of academic discussions, TLDR: this is the best PC monitor for 99.99% of users. Coming from someone who has tried 61 displays in the past 11 years.😂
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After running 4K at over 40" for years I could never go back to a monitor this small and this low of resolution no matter how good the tech is.
 
Spliffis said:
Normally the date won't change unless it gets allocation to ship or it passes by the expected ship date and queries what ever the new date shows.

I assume you are in The US? I ordered on the 9th and have the same ship date as you. As it appears no new orders have gone out for the US so far and new orders are a consistent 8+ weeks out it doesn't look like there has been much improvement from a supply chain perspective over the last 7 weeks.

Hopefully they start shipping next week but I am fully expecting majority of us in the US are going to get another delay notification. :(
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Yes, I'm in the US also. I fully expect the date to slip. I might ask my rep about it next week.
 
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